Character Discussion Thread

[bballstar23]

He is his own character, but the issue is that he's appears to be just the dark side of Pit, especially for those that never played Uprising - heck, some think Shulk is some Japan-only BS. In Uprising, he's created, fights for his own reasons, and ends up helping Pit of his own choice. Pittoo's does everything out of his own choice regardless of what people say or think of him while Pit is driven to help others and there was even a hilarious part where he goes a bit cuckoo when he was in Hade's stomach and separated from Palutena. Pittoo's the classic anti-hero while Pit's the classic all-loving hero.

The main arguments against him is one, Sakurai made Uprising, therefore biased despite as I mentioned, his Kirby characters made it in. Two, Pit and Dark Pit are palette swaps so it'd be considered lazy development - ignoring that the leak showed Pittoo with a staff instead of bow and none of his moves. Three, the amount of Kid Icarus characters compared to other "neglected" franchises like Zelda who currently has no newcomers despite being a famous franchise, Star Fox's apparent cut of Wolf, the apparent destruction of the Ice Climber franchise, Metroid, Mother/EarthBound, and F-Zero's lack of newcomers. And finally, four: Ridley (and K. Rool and Mewtwo).

I'm not against him or anyone in particular since I just don't care who gets in or who doesn't. If there's someone cool or someone I like such as Rosalina, Wolf, Impa, Ike, or Greninja, then I'll be content. I will be disappointed if say, Wolf gets cut since I like his play-style and character or the Ice Climbers since they're a part of Smash, but I won't throw a tantrum or become outraged.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. I guess one of the gripes I have is the much more prevalent bias this time around. Sakurai pretty much revived the Kid Icarus franchise in Brawl, but now his love for the series has almost gone overboard. There's now just as many characters in Smash as there are games in the entire series! I understand the arguments made for quicker development time of clones and whatnot, but I'd rather he have just left the franchise alone with Pit and Palutena rather than trying to shoehorn in an extra character for the sake of roster padding.

 

[Ffamran]

I wish Ganondorf used swords and shot magic.

Toon Ganon for swordplay and regular Ganondorf for magic.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I wish Ganondorf used swords and shot magic.

Don't we all.

 

[ActionHankBeard]

To expand on my "Dark Villains" belief, I believe there are good ways to do evil versions of a good character. I use Wario as an example. He's not just a darkly colored, evil Mario. He takes Mario's physical and moral traits, and does the opposite. That's done pretty well.

When they were first showing off Kid Icarus Uprising stuff, they seemed to imply that this would be Magnus' role. He's a big buff man, as opposed to Pit's scrawny, child-like appearance, he fights for himself, as opposed to Pit's battle for good, and he's human, as opposed to Pit being an angel. I wish they would've scrapped Dark Pit and expanded upon Magnus as Pit's opposite.

To compare, I prefer Knuckles as Sonic's rival than Shadow. But these are just personal beliefs.

Wario's a great example of bizarro version of a protagonist. But his originality diminished the moment Waluigi was created. Same w/ Sonic. First we had Knuckles, the original rival who was never really the best of friends w/ Sonic even after Sonic 3. The Shadow was created and Knuckles became sort of a joke character.

 

[?????????????]

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. I guess one of the gripes I have is the much more prevalent bias this time around. Sakurai pretty much revived the Kid Icarus franchise in Brawl, but now his love for the series has almost gone overboard. There's now just as many characters in Smash as there are games in the entire series! I understand the arguments made for quicker development time of clones and whatnot, but I'd rather he have just left the franchise alone with Pit and Palutena rather than trying to shoehorn in an extra character for the sake of roster padding.

I do believe that he only added Palutena out of fan popularity, and that Dark Pit was a "lucky, last minute addition." If that's true, I think they are both reasonable additions.

But I can't deny that I also believe that other series, namely DK and Metroid, have better (and in my opinion, more deserving) newcomers to add.

 

[bballstar23]

Wario's a great example of bizarro version of a protagonist. But his originality diminished the moment Waluigi was created. Same w/ Sonic. First we had Knuckles, the original rival who was never really the best of friends w/ Sonic even after Sonic 3. The Shadow was created and Knuckles became sort of a joke character.

Now we have Knuckles on roids since they ran out of ways to make the character unique.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wish Ganondorf used swords and shot magic.

In my opinion, I think fixing the problems Ganondorf had in Brawl should be the priority over randomly changing details just for the sake of changing details.

Basically, making the right adjustments that fixes the problems, with changes added when nessecery.

 

[?????????????]

In my opinion, I think fixing the problems Ganondorf had in Brawl should be the priority over randomly changing details just for the sake of changing details.

Basically, making the right adjustments that fixes the problems, with changes added when nessecery.

I'll agree that the priority is in order. But it doesn't change my wishes.

 

[Masonomace]

Yeah from what I'm hearing about how most of the characters play, there's no doubt it was an arduous process re-creating all of them from the ground up for balancing purposes. That's partially why I would have been fine with the roster as is without the inclusion of obvious clones such as Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina (even though I plan to use her as one of my mains). I understand that there were good intentions there, but to me it just seems like a lame attempt to buff up the roster just like what happened in Melee. I'm not completely anti-clone, and I know we haven't been able to see how any of them play yet, but it all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Your bad after-taste is understandable & I feel for you, try drinking sweet tea afterwards you won't be so disappointed. Lucina & Marth's given situation, that justifies them both completely from the Clone norm. Marth is more difficult to play & is not F-air F-air happy, more skill-based on landing tippers, while Lucina is essentially Marth's move-set but more easier to play. Dr. Mario & Mario on the other hand. . .is going to be interesting to see what they'll do, since they're the same character but including the Doc supplies & the labcoat. I feel convinced Dark Pit would play differently for some ominous reason.

The the thing about the koopalings as alts.. Look, Super Mario Bros 3 is my favorite Mario game of all time. I love that there getting more attention in recent games (especially Mario Kart, which in my opinion always made more sense than random enemies like Dry Bones and King Boo) but in SMASH they'd honestly work best as either an annoying *** assist trophy or Kirby hat/Yoshi style boss fight in a melee type adventure mode.

I'd prefer Bowser Jr have alts based on the koopalings color schemes than a completely different skin all together.

In one of the two likely scenarios, Bowser Jr. palettes that have originating references to the Koopalings via hairstyle or color palette, that's one way it may roll. Or the other scenario, it actually being that the 7 Koopalings would be his 7 alternate palettes. The first seems more likely than the second, but both are possible.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Wario's a great example of bizarro version of a protagonist. But his originality diminished the moment Waluigi was created. Same w/ Sonic. First we had Knuckles, the original rival who was never really the best of friends w/ Sonic even after Sonic 3. The Shadow was created and Knuckles became sort of a joke character.

Poor Knuckles. He was my favorite Sonic character, and then he became an idiot. And then a steroid addict.

I disagree about Waluigi though. Growing up, I always wanted a Wario Luigi, as Luigi not having a rival felt incomplete with his newfound prominence. Plus, Wario and Waluigi do have different character traits. Wario is greedy, rude, and self-centered. Waluigi is far more spiteful, mean-spirited, and self-pitying. Wario is the first to pronounce his greatness, while Waluigi is the first to say how everyone else is a cheater.

 

[Ffamran]

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. I guess one of the gripes I have is the much more prevalent bias this time around. Sakurai pretty much revived the Kid Icarus franchise in Brawl, but now his love for the series has almost gone overboard. There's now just as many characters in Smash as there are games in the entire series! I understand the arguments made for quicker development time of clones and whatnot, but I'd rather he have just left the franchise alone with Pit and Palutena rather than trying to shoehorn in an extra character for the sake of roster padding.

I still don't think it's biased since many characters are picked by Sakurai whether or not he made them like Greninja, Megaman, the Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, etc.

Does Pittoo seem like roster padding? Yes, even if he had an entirely different move set since he's a palette swap of Pit in terms of modeling, texturing, etc., but perhaps not animation and gameplay. Lucina to me, was a mistake in portrayal - at least have her Awakening battle stance than straight-up emulating Marth's stance as a lore reference.

 

[bballstar23]

I do believe that he only added Palutena out of fan popularity, and that Dark Pit was a "lucky, last minute addition." If that's true, I think they are both reasonable additions.

But I can't deny that I also believe that other series, namely DK and Metroid, have better (and in my opinion, more deserving) newcomers to add.

Yeah, I'm a huge advocate of specific characters from those series. Since there has been a large focus on balance this time around, I don't mind the idea that we'll be receiving less newcomers. It seems like the focus has been on "relevant" or newer franchises. I guess it's just a personal preference, but I just don't enjoy the idea of last minute additions regardless of who it is.

 

[?????????????]

This might sound dumb, but I wish that Nintendo would've created Luigi's rival. Maybe then he would be used outside of spin-off games, and maybe Miyamoto or someone else would've had a better idea than Waluigi (although I don't think he's really that bad).

 

[bballstar23]

I still don't think it's biased since many characters are picked by Sakurai whether or not he made them like Greninja, Megaman, the Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, etc.

Totally, I don't mind the inclusion of those characters, or most of Sakurai's choices to be honest. And even if Ridley, my most desired character doesn't make it, I still really wouldn't have a major problem. I really don't have problems with a majority of the roster to be honest. It's really just those last minute characters I have a problem with, and I guess that's where the issue of bias comes in for me. And I'm probably putting an unfair amount of criticism on Dark Pit, but he and Dr. Mario are just easy targets lol.

Does Pittoo seem like roster padding? Yes, even if he had an entirely different move set since he's a palette swap of Pit in terms of modeling, texturing, etc., but perhaps not animation and gameplay. Lucina to me, was a mistake in portrayal - at least have her Awakening battle stance than straight-up emulating Marth's stance as a lore reference.

I agree with this here. I was far more excited for Lucina before it was announced that she was previously an alternate costume for Marth.

 

[Ffamran]

This might sound dumb, but I wish that Nintendo would've created Luigi's rival. Maybe then he would be used outside of spin-off games, and maybe Miyamoto or someone else would've had a better idea than Waluigi (although I don't think he's really that bad).

Come on, Waluigi's glorious and due for his own games.

 

[Xzsmmc]

This might sound dumb, but I wish that Nintendo would've created Luigi's rival. Maybe then he would be used outside of spin-off games, and maybe Miyamoto or someone else would've had a better idea than Waluigi (although I don't think he's really that bad).

Miyamoto actually helped design Waluigi. Hell, there were also plans for evil Peach and Daisy, but he dismissed them.

I guess my problem with the clones is how unnecessary they feel. Did we really need them? Even if they don't take up much development time, there's no telling what that time could have been used for. For all we know, it could have meant Lucas/Wolf being brought back, or Ganondorf getting an overhaul.

Plus, they're not even particularly interesting. Dr. Mario is literally just Mario in a doctor outfit. Dark Pit may be a separate character, but in SSB4, he may as well just be a Pit palette swap, since he'll most likely play the same. Lucina is the only one who I can sort of understand, because she at least looks slightly different than Marth, though I still think she should have been an alt.

Lastly, (and this is personal bias on my part) I don't really like Kid Icarus. The NES game was alright, but Uprising for the most part didn't really entertain me. I enjoyed Hades' antics, but that was about it. The controls could have been better, and gave me a cramp (though it may be because I have massive hands). And yes, I'm not happy about the amount of representation it's getting compared to series like DK, Metroid, and Star Fox.

 

[~Krystal~]

Come on, Waluigi's glorious and due for his own games.

I'm for it. I say give him a game on the 3DS, system with healthy install base, and see where it goes. If it flops, he didn't have it. Fair enough, right?

 

[ActionHankBeard]

I loved Kid Icarus on the NES for the same reasons I loved Metroid and The Legend of Zelda. It was like a mash up of ideas from Metroid and Zelda. For years I hoped for a console sequel that retained that feeling, but Uprising went in an entirely different direction and I just kinda lost interest in the series. But I was so hype when Pit showed up in Brawl.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm for it. I say give him a game on the 3DS, system with healthy install base, and see where it goes. If it flops, he didn't have it. Fair enough, right?

Fans gave him a game called Psycho Waluigi and there's that recent Ocarina of Time hack.

The Legend of Wah: Ocarina of Wah.

A game starring Waluigi should be hilarious and wacky... Hmm, Platinum Games could make an over-the-top game starring Waluigi. May your eyes burn.

 

[SANCHOCO]

I wish Ganondorf used swords and shot magic.

He does shoot magic...with his fists

 

[Maxilian]

I'm still a little iffy about the secret 5...

Mewtwo and Ridley seem like a given

I'm pretty sure Chrom could say something against that

Actually i agree with you

I'm not sure if Zelda will get a newcomer, but Impa seems to have a chance.

I agree, i really doubt that Zelda will get a newcomer (sadly) but Impa still have a chance to give Zelda a new character

I'm on the "no RH rep" boat. People say "why would there be sneaky spirits", but at the same time, why would there be the IC polar bear?

Well i think that it gives them a bigger chance, cause we know that Nintendo were working with the IC but they had some problems while adding them in the DS version, so that means that the sneaky spirits is actually hinting at something, but they could have the same problem as the IC or the character could be different and not use the other 2 Chorus Kids, or just use a completely different character of RH, in general, we don't know if Nintendo have a way to add them without having problems with the character

With two left, I'm expecting Dixie Kong, due to how she was supposed to be in brawl, and how King K is a dead character as of the DK series.

I'm also expecting Dixie Kong but is not that King K. Rool have no chance

Last one, People are saying Mach rider and such, but I'm hoping for Bandana Dee from te Kirby series. There are no waddle dees at all in DDD's moveset, stage entrance, and his victory poses, so that COULD mean something. They already have the models done from smash run, so it seems odd they wouldn't just have them in for his victory pose.

Well i don't think that means much, cause as you said there are Waddle dees in smash run, IMO the waddles dees were removed from DDD's moveset to improve the character with minor modifications

But ya, Krystal and Isaac aren't gonna be in idt.

They could come as DLC

 

[Shorts]

I want SS Impa. I'm about three years too late to the party, but I like her.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Guess who just convinced his mom to help him import a Japan 3DS? I got it Amazon Primed! It'll be here on the 10th!

I thought I was going to have go into hiding so I didn't know the full roster until October 3rd. But not anymore!

The Eshop does accept foreign Credit cards so this is gonna be great!

 

[Shorts]

I wish I had that much money to spend on playing Smash a few weeks early.

 

[GunGunW]

I'm just gonna wait for the American Wii U release unless my brother gets the 3DS version.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I wish I had that much money to spend on playing Smash a few weeks early.

It was a combo of Amazon gift cards I had and a few "ill pay you back when I get home mom!"s

Too excited right now.

 

[SANCHOCO]

It was a combo of Amazon gift cards I had and a few "ill pay you back when I get home mom!"s

Too excited right now.

Question, happy for you btw, but wouldn't it be better to get the New 3DS LL from Japan? Well unless you're just getting the 3DS just for smash then ignore me. lol XD

 

[GamerGuy09]

5 Characters Left

5 Miiverse Pictures left until release.

Coincidence? Yes.

Yes.

 

[GideonSmash]

And here we have it! Alph and Fierce Deity in #SmashBros!!!http://t.co/SNIbnWjnQY pic.twitter.com/2XndvL5Uhx

— SmashBros-Ultimate (@Smash_Ultimate) September 7, 2014

Here's links fierce diety's skin and olimar's alph skin

Here are new recolors confirmed from the Japan Even: Fox with the Wolf colors and Purple Pit.
Thanks to Zipzo pic.twitter.com/iULdmRn2Ji

— SmashBros-Ultimate (@Smash_Ultimate) September 7, 2014

And here's fox's wolf skin

EDIT: how do I post pics normally???

 

[GamerGuy09]

And here we have it! Alph and Fierce Deity in #SmashBros!!!http://t.co/SNIbnWjnQY pic.twitter.com/2XndvL5Uhx

— SmashBros-Ultimate (@Smash_Ultimate) September 7, 2014

Here's links fierce diety's skin and olimar's alph skin

Here are new recolors confirmed from the Japan Even: Fox with the Wolf colors and Purple Pit.
Thanks to Zipzo pic.twitter.com/iULdmRn2Ji

— SmashBros-Ultimate (@Smash_Ultimate) September 7, 2014

And here's fox's wolf skin

Some of those pictures kinda crapped out. Try to reupload them from Imgur.

 

[pupNapoleon]

No, it's not that I want him playable. It's that I don't think having characters being in under the name that they really aren't. And yeah, they could make it so it says Alph when he wins, but I still just find it strange that it's a thing.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Well, this more than confirms the fact that the Koopaling alts will be a thing and the names will change accordingly.

Also, is Rosalina and Luma called Rosetta & CHIKO in Japan?

 

[GideonSmash]

Oh, good, you guys can see the pics now....
I have been watching this threat for some time now and I just created an account to show you guys these 2 pics I saw....

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why does Alph always look as though he is made out of Claymation?

 

[~Krystal~]

Diddy Kong's recolor looks hideous. Alph and Fierce Deity look like strong efforts were behind them.

 

[MagnesD3]

And here we have it! Alph and Fierce Deity in #SmashBros!!!http://t.co/SNIbnWjnQY pic.twitter.com/2XndvL5Uhx

— SmashBros-Ultimate (@Smash_Ultimate) September 7, 2014

Here's links fierce diety's skin and olimar's alph skin

Here are new recolors confirmed from the Japan Even: Fox with the Wolf colors and Purple Pit.
Thanks to Zipzo pic.twitter.com/iULdmRn2Ji

— SmashBros-Ultimate (@Smash_Ultimate) September 7, 2014

And here's fox's wolf skin

EDIT: how do I post pics normally???

I feel so much better seeing that wolf color, it really doesnt look like wolf that much except for the color, thank god there is a chance he is DLC now :D

 

[pupNapoleon]

Regardless, Dark Pit is his own entity with his own look and personality, so I see no reason to be upset with his inclusion, especially since it was probably just a last minute extra that wouldn't have existed or replaced anything else otherwise.

Really, you don't even SEE a reason people are upset? It's one thin to disagree, but another to just claim the evidence isn't there.
As for he did not replace anything otherwise, I beg to differ. I'd much rather have had Alph as the upgraded character alt, or likely, one of many other characters.

Diddy Kong's recolor looks hideous. Alph and Fierce Deity look like strong efforts were behind them.

It looks great.
We will need SOME way to tell that he is not Dixie.

 

[Masonomace]

It's great that the alts will get the name change listed below. I never felt so much respect for Alternate costume swaps before until now. Blood Falcon I'm so ready to see your progress.
BLOOD FALCON

Oh, good, you guys can see the pics now....
I have been watching this threat for some time now and I just created an account to show you guys these 2 pics I saw....

I can see your 2nd & 3rd pics, thanks for posting.
Also Welcome to Smashboards. And special thanks to you & Zipzo for the images.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

Wow, that recolor...really doesn't look a whole lot like Wolf.

 

[AEMehr]

Also, is Rosalina and Luma called Rosetta & CHIKO in Japan?

http://www.smashbros.com/jp/characters/rosetta.html