Character Discussion Thread

[StrangeMann]

Now I honestly think Snake is gone for the same reasons for the same reasons Lucas and Wolf are gone, since there's barely any Metal Gear games coming out (Aside from Snake Eater 3-D), he's probably going to be cut for marketing reasons, only he's not a clone he was planned to be cut from the beginning.

I'm pretty sure Ice climbers are gone too...And It makes me so sad.
Considering in the last two games the ice climbers had a stage while in this game, they don't.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm pretty sure Ice climbers are gone too...And It makes me so sad.
Considering in the last two games the ice climbers had a stage while in this game, they don't.

It would be quite silly to not have the Ice Climbers, seeing as the Polar Bear is in Smash Run.

 

[Zynux]

Not if they're pointless clones. Even Dark Pit is better off as a palette swap for Pit; Dark Link is a palette swap for Link after all.

My problem with clones in fighting games is that one interpretation of the initial moveset will almost always outshine the other, and thus render the other character useless. On rare occasions, both the original moveset and the clone will be viable (Like Fox and Falco), but more often then not it's not the case.

With:

1. Mario and Dr. Mario
2. Marth and Lucina
3. Pit and Dark Pit

In the meta-game I can almost guarantee you that one playstyle will completely overshadow the other. In fact, I will be surprised if it doesn't happen. Unless the balance in this game turns out to be really good (which would surprise me, considering how unbalance Melee and Brawl were) I don't think both Marth and Lucina will be viable. Most will gravitate to the other once the meta starts to develop.


Because of this, any miniscule of development time that went to these clone characters I would have much rather be allocated to somewhere else. Quantity doesn't equal Quality. Just because these "low-effort" clones pad the roster with more characters, doesn't mean they were a worthwhile investment in the end.

I think it's four empty spots. They'll leave a blank spot for Mii Fighters when customization is on.

Ridley or King K, Mewtwo, Wolf, and Ice Climber(s) are my picks.

Let's not get too crazy now . There's still a chance that we've seen the final roster. Sure, that chance has been minimized as of now, but it's still possible.

Outside of my bias, I think we're geared for at least one secret character we don't know about yet. If I were a betting man, it would be a toss up for either Wolf or Mewtwo. Hopefully even more, but I'm trying to keep my expectations in check.

 

[Rockaphin]

Straight from Miyamoto's mouth:

This is pretty much saying that the Dr. Mario franchise is not canon to the rest of the Mario games. As in, it has its own separate canon.

Though that brings me to a post I've made months ago in the Dr. Mario thread...



Aside from that, here's something from Super Mario Bros. 3's manual...

Notice anything....peculiar? The Koopalings are being labeled as Bowser's children.
It's been established recently that Bowser Jr. is Bowser's only actual child. By, again, Miyamoto.


So what have we learned? That localized manuals are not necessarily accurate.

It is possible that they were originally considered to be his children, but after time, they decided to change this. Therefore, making it accurate at the time of creation, but is inaccurate as of now.
Here's another neat little thing I found:

In addition to Yoshi's full name, the guide also reveals that Mario is not a traditional human but a person of a different species. The full paragraph states, "Yoshi, properly known as T. Yoshisaur Munchakoopas, had been held captive in an egg until Mario (homo nintendonus) bopped along and rescued him. Instantly, the young dinosaur and the plumber became fast friends. Together, they set out to rescue Yoshi's dinosaur pals from the wickedness of Bowser."

I don't remember where I found this though but I thought it was rather interesting. Anyway,

The thing about this topic is that we don't even know how Nintendo looks at it. What I mean is, do they look at this as simply a spin-off? Or do they think that Dr. Mario is in a different universe and consider it as its own thing? There's many inconsistencies with the Mario franchise. Personally I think it's the same Mario taking on the role of a Doctor.

I hate Toon Zelda, I would rather have that spot who's at least decently requested like Dark Pit and (debatably) Dr. Mario than giving the roster spot to Toon Zelda. Then again, the Phantom Knight might indicate her inclusion, or at least was considered. ;-;

I'm not too fond of Toon Zelda either, but I've seen her more than Dark Pit. That was, before Palutena's trailer

I just don't see Mario Sports games as 'Mario' games- I see them as Mario Universe games. The Mushroom icon is clearly for 'Mario' games, not all Mario Universe games and characters, because the sports games are a spinoff franchise, just lie the ones with the other featured characters.

Waluigi was labeled a Mario character in Brawl, so I don't really see a huge reason to change that all the sudden. Dr. Mario was also labeled as a ''Mario'' character even though his series is a spin-off.

 

[The Light Music Club]

My problem with clones in fighting games is that one interpretation of the initial moveset will almost always outshine the other, and thus render the other character useless. On rare occasions, both the original moveset and the clone will be viable (Like Fox and Falco), but more often then not it's not the case.

With:

1. Mario and Dr. Mario
2. Marth and Lucina
3. Pit and Dark Pit

In the meta-game I can almost guarantee you that one playstyle will completely overshadow the other. In fact, I will be surprised if it doesn't happen. Unless the balance in this game turns out to be really good (which would surprise me, considering how unbalance Melee and Brawl were) I don't think both Marth and Lucina will be viable. Most will gravitate to the other once the meta starts to develop.


Because of this, any miniscule of development time that went to these clone characters I would have much rather be allocated to somewhere else. Quantity doesn't equal Quality. Just because these "low-effort" clones pad the roster with more characters, doesn't mean they were a worthwhile investment in the end.


Let's not get too crazy now . There's still a chance that we've seen the final roster. Sure, that chance has been minimized as of now, but it's still possible.

Outside of my bias, I think we're geared for at least one secret character we don't know about yet. If I were a betting man, it would be a toss up for either Wolf or Mewtwo. Hopefully even more, but I'm trying to keep my expectations in check.

No, I'm positive that's not the final roster. The pad-locked All-Star mode image was leaked with another image of Dark Pit selected as a character. I'm convinced that this isn't the final roster that was leaked.

 

[Spinosaurus]

It is possible that they were originally considered to be his children, but after time, they decided to change this. Therefore, making it accurate at the time of creation, but is inaccurate as of now.

Actually that is a translation error. There has never been a mention of them being Bowser's children in Japan.

Which is why I'm always baffled it's considered a retcon when it was never really canon to begin with.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think Waluigi might've been changed to a Wario character to give Wario another AT, or potentially because Nintendo has plans to add Waluigi into future Wario games.

 

[Rockaphin]

Actually that is a translation error. There has never been a mention of them being Bowser's children in Japan.

Which is why I'm always baffled it's considered a retcon when it was never really canon to begin with.

I have no idea what is a translation error and what isn't. I always figured that when they called him his "kids" I thought that meant like they are like children to Bowser.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Actually that is a translation error. There has never been a mention of them being Bowser's children in Japan.

Which is why I'm always baffled it's considered a retcon when it was never really canon to begin with.

According to the Mariowiki, they were in the Mario Bros. 3 manual.
http://www.mariowiki.com/koopalings#Family_relationship

In the Japanese manual of the Super Mario Bros. 3, the relationship between the Koopalings and Bowser was both implied and confirmed. The Koopalings' name 「コクッパ７兄弟」 Kokuppa 7 Kyōdai, made them essentially "7 little Bowser siblings", which would imply some level of relation to Bowser. Meanwhile, Bowser refers to them as 「俺様の息子達」 Ore-sama no musuko-tachi, which equates to "my children" (or, literally, "my sons"), and Larry, Morton and Lemmy refer to Bowser as 「オヤジ」 Oyaji, which is both a term of endearment and a Japanese word for "father". However, despite the relationship, a line from Lemmy in the Japanese manual implied that they do not live with Bowser.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I think Waluigi might've been changed to a Wario character to give Wario another AT, or potentially because Nintendo has plans to add Waluigi into future Wario games.

But the Wario team has shown a strong dislike towards using other characters that aren't their own. Warioware has no element taken from Mario aside from cameos.

I still think it was just an error in the direct.

According to the Mariowiki, they were in the Mario Bros. 3 manual.
http://www.mariowiki.com/koopalings#Family_relationship

I stand corrected.

 

[Rockaphin]

According to the Mariowiki, they were in the Mario Bros. 3 manual.
http://www.mariowiki.com/koopalings#Family_relationship

So.... I was correct? Especially with the Mario franchise being so inconsistent. It's quite annoying for people like me.

 

[Masonomace]

@Gre ninja'd Is there any mechanics that are new/interesting outside of the new ledge grabbing? Do they still have DI? (I heard it was weakened a bunch)

http://nintendoenthusiast.com/article/competitive-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds/
So far based on a competitive player's analysis.

comes after

Then people will truly fear greninja after that. They'll be scared when people are forced to use in their edited posts. Be afraid users, be afraid.

But yes, about the series topic, there's a lot wrong with the leaked roster's CSS. It just doesn't look like a roster with that amount of slots to be correct. I'm more inclined to think Waluigi will be included in future Warioware games now with that change in Sm4sh & 5mash.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I tend to consider the Koopalings as being Bowser's "adopted" children, so he's basically a stepfather to them.

 

[Rockaphin]

I'm actually more excited to play as the Koopalings than Bowser Jr. that is, if that leak is true. Hopefully they'll each get different voices. I bet the Koopa Clown Car will change colors.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I'm actually more excited to play as the Koopalings than Bowser Jr. that is, if that leak is true. Hopefully they'll each get different voices. I bet the Koopa Clown Car will change colors.

I think you'll get your wish. Look at this Larry trophy. Not only is he in the clown car, the top is blue instead of green:

 

[Masonomace]

Considering the Koopalings inclusion in the game, I'd bet they'd be exact with visual details & facial expressions. This bodes very well for alternate costumes looking fabulous. I'm mostly talking about Captain Fabulous in Pink & an exact Blood Falcon alternate.

And Black Shadow in Ganondorf's alternate costumes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Koopalings have never used a Koopa Clown Car before though, so I'm not really sure about their playable odds.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The Koopalings have never used a Koopa Clown Car before though, so I'm not really sure about their playable odds.

I think that basically means they're guaranteed to be Bowser Jr.'s alts. If they haven't used the Klown Kar, there's literally no reason for them to be shown in one in trophies.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think that basically means they're guaranteed to be Bowser Jr.'s alts. If they haven't used the Klown Kar, there's literally no reason for them to be shown in one in trophies.

The Koopalings could only be present as trophy cameos though, but I guess our answers will be revealed in another week or so.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The Koopalings could only be present as trophy cameos though, but I guess our answers will be revealed in another week or so.

Yes, but wouldn't they use their normal appearance OUTSIDE of the Koopa Klown Kar? If they haven't ever used it, there's literally no reason for them to be IN the Koopa Klown Kar in their trophies. Unless the rumor about them being Bowser Jr.'s alts is true.

 

[Deathcarter]

If the Koopalings really are in the game as alts (hell even if they're not), I really hope all they all get to be in Bowser Jr.'s Final Smash.

 

[Xzsmmc]

If the Koopalings really are in the game as alts (hell even if they're not), I really hope all they all get to be in Bowser Jr.'s Final Smash.

I heard a rumor they all show up and blast everyone else with Bob-ombs. I also heard if you're playing as a Koopaling, Jr. replaces them.

 

[JamesDNaux]

So how about a roster? It's been a long time... I know it's pointless with the game so close, but I'm bored.

Still working on it, obviously. I've been fiddling around with the organization, haven't really gotten anything to work.

 

[ihskeyp]

So how about a roster? It's been a long time... I know it's pointless with the game so close, but I'm bored.

Still working on it, obviously. I've been fiddling around with the organization, haven't really gotten anything to work.

Hmmm... I'm thinking that the square next to Diddy should be pink....

 

[Autumn ♫]

So how about a roster? It's been a long time... I know it's pointless with the game so close, but I'm bored.

Still working on it, obviously. I've been fiddling around with the organization, haven't really gotten anything to work.

There should be a purple square next to Toon Link.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Hmmm... I'm thinking that the square next to Diddy should be pink....

You're missing the very obvious pink square next to Dr. Mario.


Also, "replace _ character with _ and it's good."

...

There should be a purple square next to Toon Link.

Oh, you know I can't do that. As much as I want the Happy Mask Salesman, he'll never actually happen.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Waluigi was labeled a Mario character in Brawl, so I don't really see a huge reason to change that all the sudden. Dr. Mario was also labeled as a ''Mario'' character even though his series is a spin-off.

Well, I did see a reason, and I guess Sakurai did too.
I think he is prepping us for Waluigi's possible inclusion in the next smash game, where Waluigi would be a Wario character. Hence, Waluigi donning the Wario symbol in the current game.

 

[~Krystal~]

So how about a roster? It's been a long time... I know it's pointless with the game so close, but I'm bored.

Still working on it, obviously. I've been fiddling around with the organization, haven't really gotten anything to work.

You want us to use our imagination to fill in the blanks? Cranky is the DK rep. Higgs is the Metroid rep. Magikarp is the Pokemon rep. Panther is the Star Fox rep. Starman Jr. is next to Ness. The spot to the right of that is Ice Climber (singular). Mii fighters waste the space between GN and R.O.B. For the next clone between Dr. Mario and Dark Pit, it's Toon Zelda (who I'm looking forward to). Gray square on the 3rd party row is obviously Master Chief.

 

[Xzsmmc]

So how about a roster? It's been a long time... I know it's pointless with the game so close, but I'm bored.

Still working on it, obviously. I've been fiddling around with the organization, haven't really gotten anything to work.

Am I correct in my assumptions here? Wolf with question marks because I don't know why he'd be pink.

 

[Deleted member]

According to the Mariowiki, they were in the Mario Bros. 3 manual.
http://www.mariowiki.com/koopalings#Family_relationship

So....like the TMNT with Splinter?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Am I correct in my assumptions here? Wolf with question marks because I don't know why he'd be pink.

I think people are missing the "it's not finished." The white space by R.O.B. is clearly not filled in yet.

Mii Fighters are on a separate menu from the roster.

All of your other assumptions are correct. But Wolf isn't pink, he's a retro neon purple.

 

[aldelaro5]

Mario repping talk?

Why no one asked this?

Paper Mario: Own series or Mario rep?

Just want to know what you think because I'm probably in the minority that says own series.

Which in this case, I would like this icon I made:

 

[JaidynReiman]

You're missing the very obvious pink square next to Dr. Mario.


Also, "replace _ character with _ and it's good."

...

Oh, you know I can't do that. As much as I want the Happy Mask Salesman, he'll never actually happen.

I got everyone except Ice Climbers and the blank space.


This lineup sounds good to me. As for missing characters,

Isaac
?? Only one I can really think here is Impa. Added Impa next to Sheik, maybe.

I'd love to say Lip, but I don't think Lip is likely at all. Impa, on the other hand, is quite possible, and I legitimately do think Isaac is probably playable or will be DLC later.


EDIT: If it were up to me, I would plain remove Snake, Lucas, and Ice Climbers, not because I want them gone, but because I think they are gone. Granted, I'd probably only add six characters onto this, adding a new column rather than a new row.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I got everyone except Ice Climbers and the blank space.


This lineup sounds good to me. As for missing characters,

Isaac
?? Only one I can really think here is Impa. Added Impa next to Sheik, maybe.

I'd love to say Lip, but I don't think Lip is likely at all. Impa, on the other hand, is quite possible, and I legitimately do think Isaac is probably playable or will be DLC later.


EDIT: If it were up to me, I would plain remove Snake, Lucas, and Ice Climbers, not because I want them gone, but because I think they are gone. Granted, I'd probably only add six characters onto this, adding a new column rather than a new row.

I doubt Isaac or any new Zelda character. It'd probably be Impa though, but as a clone, she wouldn't go next to the franchise.

I'm not giving up on the "cuts" either, it's blatantly apparent that not every character on the leak is unlocked.
I'd love Lip too.

 

[Weeman]

Mario repping talk?

Why no one asked this?

Paper Mario: Own series or Mario rep?

Just want to know what you think because I'm probably in the minority that says own series.

Which in this case, I would like this icon I made:

We're probably going to get Mario & Luigi tag team, with Fawful as their final smash.

 

[aldelaro5]

We're probably going to get Mario & Luigi tag team, with Fawful as their final smash.

Actually, M&L got confirmed mario rep because of the music video.

But what about the stage beinf named "Paper Mario"?

For me, it would mean more own series than mario rep, but anyway.

 

[Deathcarter]

Mario repping talk?

Why no one asked this?

Paper Mario: Own series or Mario rep?

Just want to know what you think because I'm probably in the minority that says own series.

Which in this case, I would like this icon I made:

Own series. The Paper Mario series feels like its own beast completely different and independent of regular Mario beyond characters and I hope Sakurai would recognize that.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The only M&L character I can possibly see happening is Fawful. As much as I'd love it, I don't think its very likely.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, M&L got confirmed mario rep because of the music video.

But what about the stage beinf named "Paper Mario"?

For me, it would mean more own series than mario rep, but anyway.

I can't wait to play as Nintendog then

 

[aldelaro5]

I can't wait to play as Nintendog then

Got [deconfirmed] so your post got ignored.

But seriously, if you check the numbers, not that much stage are like that. You could even say that baloon fight could rep rob, but it's not that much if it doesn't anyway.

What is intriguing is really the name + TTYD. Seems to get broader than just the stage (btw, it already implies 2 music and we know how much choices there is normally so unless they dump a lot in smash run...again, might not be enough, lol).

It's just weird to call it the most generic name from the series perspective. It's a valid interpretation to say that Hither Tither Hill would be a mario location, but Paper Mario (which implies general series repping) as the location ITSELF...how can you say it's a Mario location if the location is the series itself?

That's mainly what bugs me.