Character Discussion Thread

[StrangeMann]

First of all, we do not know the final roster at the current time. Zelda might have six characters (it was supposed to have seven in Brawl, so precedent and whatnot) and Pokemon might have six characters, Pokemon also has the luxury of having no clone characters at the current time (if I recall), whereas Mario has one. I do not enjoy debating "representation;" however, Mario had five characters in Melee. So it is not outlandish, given the time frame, that two more characters would be introduced. One of them did not even exist until a couple of years ago, I do not believe that Bowser Jr. was overly prominent during the Melee era either. Honestly, it seems natural as Mario did not grow in Brawl, it lost Dr. Mario who is now reclaiming his rightful place on the roster.

I see the inherent issue... but at the same time, it does not bother me too much as Wario feels as though he is from WarioWare. Donkey Kong feels as though he is from Donkey Kong. Yoshi on the other hand?

I'm almost certain we will be seeing more characters soon.
Whether we get some veterans back, or some newcomers.
If it's veterans, I know some people who would be very happy to see the ice climbers back. Wolf and Lucas as well.
But in terms of newcomers, consider that we haven't gotten a Villain or heavyweight newcomer this game yet.
If anything, we've lost a villain by wolf, but gained Bowser Jr.
Bowser Jr. Would be our lightweight, Duck hunt dog might be lightweight as well.
We lost a heavyweight too though, because it's fairly likely snake isn't returning(I hope I'm wrong).
Yet most of the heavy weights this game have recieved major changes; they aren't slow in movement anymore, they are slow in attacks and have no range.
Also, I believe the clones were added just to fill space to either fill up the screen or replace the cut veterans.

 

[NickerBocker]

To be fair, he was not just referencing Lucina, he was referencing the concept (costumes with different attributes entail a slot due to battle-records) during Lucina's reveal as that was what the interview topic was. That paragraph is not actually explicitly about Lucina, you could probably argue that she is not even the subject. Obviously he used her name to keep it relevant though.

But my point is if hes doing it for more than one character, thats not a "special case" so to speak, or lucky. Its something that was planned.

I suppose Lucina could have been the inspiration to do this with more characters, but that seems unlikely because it seems that would have been late in development. I guess its possible because they can use the same models and its just an extra step to make them a slot and give them slightly different traits/moves.

 

[Spazzy_D]

If they really needed some potential clone characters, there's plenty to chose from. Heck, why cut clones if you're just going to add some? Especially Wolf or Lucas.

And on the topic of newcomer clones, Black Shadow would work well as well as Dixie Kong. She's perfect semi-clone material and among the most wanted characters out there. I think she'd be a no brainer if it came down to, "We need to beef up the roster with clone characters, who should we include?"

I can understand Wolf and Lucas' exclusion. Sakurai had to plan cuts to ensure he had time to add everyone he wanted. When he was ahead of schedule he decided to take already existing assets and convert them into fully playable characters. He didn't have time to recreate Wolf and Lucas at that point.

What I hope this means is that Wolf and Lucas will come back at DLC and be luigified even further.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If only We got Paper Mario instead of Dr Mario I would feel much better, at least he would look interesting and probably unique (he's also cooler).

So he would be a clone of Mario still right assuming he's a last-minute clone like Dr. Mario.

 

[Morbi]

But my point is if hes doing it for more than one character, thats not a "special case" so to speak, or lucky. Its something that was planned.

I suppose Lucina could have been the inspiration to do this with more characters, but that seems unlikely because it seems that would have been late in development.

Of course, but if you read the article, he implies that Lucina deserves her own slot because she has her own attributes. However, therein lies the issue. She did not have different attributes when she was intended to be a costume. He purposely added those attributes to differentiate her once she became her own character, otherwise, she would have just been a costume, correct?

Why did he add different attributes to her attacks? Either he arbitrarily did it on a whim, which would make her a "lucky" addition. Or there was a different character "introduced" to the roster that was intended to be a costume but had significant differences attached to them ALREADY... *cough* Dr. Mario *cough*. After that, he probably went back to characters such as Lucina and Dark Pit to change them up.

But that is just a theory. Unless he planned the concept early on in development (which does not appear to be the case given the notion that she WAS a costume at first) as you believe, I am certain that she was "lucky" just as Dark Pit or Dr. Mario were lucky to be on the roster. They would have been in the game regardless, but not as characters. If that makes sense.

 

[Substitution]

Why Dr. Mario or Dark Pit? You do not need to be Sakurai to discern why those are ideal choices. Dr. Mario is a clone of Nintendo's mascot, thereby making him one of the most prominent clones. However, that's not all! Dr. Mario is also a veteran character. Just in case it was not blatantly obvious, Sakurai does not cut clone characters just because they are clones. He already brought back Young Link through Toon Link in Brawl and Roy through Lucina in Smash 4. It is not outlandish to believe that he would bring back Dr. Mario and add Raichu.

Dark Pit is another choice that seems odd because, "we already have Palutena and Pit." But in the end, it is not odd given the over-saturation of Kid Icarus through everything aside from playable characters and Sakurai's treatment of the franchise. Sora Ltd. did revive the franchise, after all. Sakurai also, quite clearly intends on keeping the series alive. He puts it on par with the elites such as: Mario, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, Star Fox, Kirby, and Legend of Zelda. This was observable far before he was ever teased at the end of Palutena's trailer. In the same way that Kirby was justified two newcomers in Brawl, Kid Icarus is justified two newcomers at the current. ESPECIALLY given the notion that one of them is a clone. A clone that was conceived as a palette in Smash. In that way, he is one of our first Smash original characters, kind of.

It is also important to note that based on Sakurai's assertions... these characters WERE costumes before he gave them different attributes at little to no development costs. If you wish to complain about costumes being slightly different and granted their own slots, feel free to do so.

The reason using Sakurai's words, as you thought it better to ask the man himself:

"However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!"

In the case of Dr. Mario, at the very least, the characteristic differences were established a decade ago and as many have already mentioned, a prominent aspect of Dr. Mario are the pills. F.L.U.D.D also poses a crux. However, there is another reason that many overlook. I highlighted it for your convenience because no one ever reads the paragraph that soft-confirmed Dr. Mario AND Dark Pit before the leak was even uttered.

Well it's better than anything I could come up with.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Oh quote a couple of commenta

[collapse=All Pictures Taken At 1 O'Clock:]

[/collapse]
This might help us figure out when All stars mode was shown off and how close it was to the roster being shown off. (Assuming this was done on the same day.)

From up to down oldest to youngest pictures

The dark pit one is after the all star picture.

So its safe to say that all star picture was taken with everyone from the leak roster

And from it 5 empty boxes. So 5 more characters to be revealed since the whole series leaves no room in boxes (melee does not count its empty spaces are secretly the random buttons.)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Of course, but if you read the article, he implies that Lucina deserves her own slot because she has her own attributes. However, therein lies the issue. She did not have different attributes when she was intended to be a costume. He purposely added those attributes to differentiate her once she became her own character, otherwise, she would have just been a costume, correct?

Why did he add different attributes to her attacks? Either he arbitrarily did it on a whim, which would make her a "lucky" addition. Or there was a different character "introduced" to the roster that was intended to be a costume but had significant differences attached to them ALREADY... *cough* Dr. Mario *cough*. After that, he probably went back to characters such as Lucina and Dark Pit to change them up.

But that is just a theory. Unless he planned the concept early on in development (which does not appear to be the case given the notion that she WAS a costume at first) as you believe, I am certain that she was "lucky" just as Dark Pit or Dr. Mario were lucky to be on the roster. They would have been in the game regardless, but not as characters. If that makes sense.

You forget the most important reasons for Dr. Mario's inclusion: He represents one of Nintendo's most popular puzzles games and the earliest Mario spinoff in history.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I think it's four empty spots. They'll leave a blank spot for Mii Fighters when customization is on.

Ridley or King K, Mewtwo, Wolf, and Ice Climber(s) are my picks.

 

[Morbi]

You forget the most important reasons for Dr. Mario's inclusion: He represents one of Nintendo's most popular puzzles games and the earliest Mario spinoff in history.

Thank you, I did indeed forget about that for a moment.

I think it's four empty spots. They'll leave a blank spot for Mii Fighters when customization is on.

Ridley or King K, Mewtwo, Wolf, and Ice Climbers are my picks.

They might even save three slots for Mii Fighters when customization is on.

Wolf, Ridley, Impa/Toon Zelda (can't decide), and Mewtwo are my picks.

 

[Frostwraith]

http://mii-gamer.com/2014/09/01/dozens-super-smash-bros-posters-popping-across-sations-japan/

Some interesting stuff. There have been loads of Smash Bros. ad posters popping up in Japan.

However, something caught my attention on those. Each poster has a character in the bottom left corner with a number. Samus is 4, Capt. Falcon is 10, Peach is 11, Zero Suit Samus is 18, Ike is 19, Charizard is 20, Olimar is 23, Lucina is 33 and Sonic is 35. What is the meaning of this? The order does make sense too... Smash 64 veterans first, then Melee veterans, Brawl veterans next, then the newcomers and lastly the third party characters.

Could this be a clue regarding the starting roster?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Paper Mario
Baby Mario
Fire Mario
Tanooki Mario
Metal Mario
Cat Suit Mario

Baby Peach
Pink Gold Peach
Daisy who denies she's a Peach-clone
Peach being held hostage in a cage
Paper Peach
Peach in her SPOOOOORRRRRTTTTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSSS outfit
Baby Gold Pink Metal Ice Flower Star Power Peach

Don't forget the best one: Daisy In Her Sports Outfit.

 

[The Light Music Club]

http://mii-gamer.com/2014/09/01/dozens-super-smash-bros-posters-popping-across-sations-japan/

Some interesting stuff. There have been loads of Smash Bros. ad posters popping up in Japan.

However, something caught my attention on those. Each poster has a character in the bottom left corner with a number. Samus is 4, Capt. Falcon is 10, Peach is 11, Zero Suit Samus is 18, Ike is 19, Charizard is 20, Olimar is 23, Lucina is 33 and Sonic is 35. What is the meaning of this? The order does make sense too... Smash 64 veterans first, then Melee veterans, Brawl veterans next, then the newcomers and lastly the third party characters.

Could this be a clue regarding the starting roster?

I find it strange Samus is #4. I would think Mario, Pikachu, Link, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Samus, Fox, Yoshi as the order of 1 to 8.

 

[Maxilian]

I think it's four empty spots. They'll leave a blank spot for Mii Fighters when customization is on.

Ridley or King K, Mewtwo, Wolf, and Ice Climbers are my picks.

Well i will go with

Ridley, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo and Chorus Kid

Note: the one i'm more skeptical about is Ridley but the rest (at least Mewtwo and CK are in)

 

[Frostwraith]

I find it strange Samus is #4. I would think Mario, Pikachu, Link, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Samus, Fox, Yoshi as the order of 1 to 8.

The original ordering was Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox and Pikachu. It's their ordering by debut year too.

 

[The Light Music Club]

The original ordering was Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox and Pikachu. It's their ordering by debut year too.

True, I thought she was fourth in the ordering on the roster. I thought it would make more sense to add off from the "big 4". That makes sense though the way they did it.

 

[Opossum]

http://mii-gamer.com/2014/09/01/dozens-super-smash-bros-posters-popping-across-sations-japan/

Some interesting stuff. There have been loads of Smash Bros. ad posters popping up in Japan.

However, something caught my attention on those. Each poster has a character in the bottom left corner with a number. Samus is 4, Capt. Falcon is 10, Peach is 11, Zero Suit Samus is 18, Ike is 19, Charizard is 20, Olimar is 23, Lucina is 33 and Sonic is 35. What is the meaning of this? The order does make sense too... Smash 64 veterans first, then Melee veterans, Brawl veterans next, then the newcomers and lastly the third party characters.

Could this be a clue regarding the starting roster?

Since Falcon's 10, and Peach is 11, and Luigi's essentially confirmed to be unlockable, and Jigglypuff has been unlockable since Day One, would this mean that Ness is a guaranteed starter?

 

[Frostwraith]

Since Falcon's 10, and Peach is 11, and Luigi's essentially confirmed to be unlockable, and Jigglypuff has been unlockable since Day One, would this mean that Ness is a guaranteed starter?

Given leaks and that eShop screen, I'd say Ness and Jigglypuff are the unlockables.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Since Falcon's 10, and Peach is 11, and Luigi's essentially confirmed to be unlockable, and Jigglypuff has been unlockable since Day One, would this mean that Ness is a guaranteed starter?

I actually think Luigi is a starter. It was never once confirmed Luigi is unlockable, and he's constantly appearing in the Pic of the Day's and the eShop roster. I think we've seen the starting roster, and I don't think Ness is a starter (even though he SHOULD be since Falcon is).

 

[epicgordan]

http://mii-gamer.com/2014/09/01/dozens-super-smash-bros-posters-popping-across-sations-japan/

Some interesting stuff. There have been loads of Smash Bros. ad posters popping up in Japan.

However, something caught my attention on those. Each poster has a character in the bottom left corner with a number. Samus is 4, Capt. Falcon is 10, Peach is 11, Zero Suit Samus is 18, Ike is 19, Charizard is 20, Olimar is 23, Lucina is 33 and Sonic is 35. What is the meaning of this? The order does make sense too... Smash 64 veterans first, then Melee veterans, Brawl veterans next, then the newcomers and lastly the third party characters.

Could this be a clue regarding the starting roster?

Hm...in that case, I think I have the order:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.

With Melee an 64, I think they are arranged in the order of arrangement from left to right, top to bottom, counting the secret characters from those games last every time. Toon Link was added in from Brawl simply because he was Young Link's replacement and it's possible that one should treat the two as one and the same for argument's sake. Brawl and 4, on the other hand:

17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.
26.
27.
28.
29.
30.
31.
32./
33.
34. (Shulk)
35.
36.
37.
38. (uncertain)

I may have butchered up the ordering of the Brawl roster, but not counting Sonic, I believe that the newcomers of both games may have been arranged in the order in which they were announced as playable. This especially carries over with Smash 4, only Robin comes before Lucina, and the Mii Fighters--if they have a poster number--would be the last ones after the third party. Sonic is ranked number 35--before the other third parties because he was a Brawl veteran, but Mega Man was confirmed before Pac-Man.

Hope that clarified a few things.

 

[Burruni]

Since Falcon's 10, and Peach is 11, and Luigi's essentially confirmed to be unlockable, and Jigglypuff has been unlockable since Day One, would this mean that Ness is a guaranteed starter?

I believe the same for three big reasons

a) Who are the only characters to have been unlockable in all 3 games? ->->->?.

b) There's one other time when Captain Falcon was a starter. Melee. You know who was also a starter? .

c) Brawl: Unlockable, Starter. Sm4sh: Lucas unlockable, Ness Starter.. Makes more sense as Lucas is the protagonist of a sequel. came after . after . / after . It follows an established trend.... barring before . So let's just say Brawl was inverted for that column!

 

[Deleted member]

What do you guys think Dark Pit's thing is going to be? I'm going to guess he's going to be better in the air, but suffer on the ground. After all, he's the one who wasn't really relying on someone else (Yes, he was using Pandora's power, but it's not like Pit who could only fly for five minutes with the help of Palutena or Viridi)

 

[The Light Music Club]

I'd like to pose a question. Who do you guys think, once unlocked, will cause Yoshi to move next to Wario?

Also based on the POTD Monday, I'm convinced Chrom is the Awakening AT, and Micaiah will be the third and final AT for Fire Emblem.

 

[JaidynReiman]

What do you guys think Dark Pit's thing is going to be? I'm going to guess he's going to be better in the air, but suffer on the ground. After all, he's the one who wasn't really relying on someone else (Yes, he was using Pandora's power, but it's not like Pit who could only fly for five minutes with the help of Palutena or Viridi)

I think he's going to use the Dark Pit Staff instead of Pit's bow, and his abilities will be slightly different. He probably won't split apart the staff obviously, he'll just spin the staff around for regular attacks, but it'll still be similar to Pit overall.

 

[Xzsmmc]

What do you guys think Dark Pit's thing is going to be? I'm going to guess he's going to be better in the air, but suffer on the ground. After all, he's the one who wasn't really relying on someone else (Yes, he was using Pandora's power, but it's not like Pit who could only fly for five minutes with the help of Palutena or Viridi)

Clone of Pit. Anything else would be even more insulting than he already is.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Oh guys, Luigi I'm sure will be a starter, mainly because he's on the All-Star image on the touch screen. It'd be kind of strange to have him there if he was hidden.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

What do you guys think Dark Pit's thing is going to be? I'm going to guess he's going to be better in the air, but suffer on the ground. After all, he's the one who wasn't really relying on someone else (Yes, he was using Pandora's power, but it's not like Pit who could only fly for five minutes with the help of Palutena or Viridi)

He's going to be Pit but with more range.
Maybe with shorter lasting version of Pit's old Up B

 

[Spinosaurus]

A significantly stronger Pit with more reach and ending lag on his moves. Should be high risk, high reward.

 

[pupNapoleon]

He had the Wario icon in the Smash Direct for some unknown reason. He's never appeared in a Wario game so I don't know what they were smoking.

I love how strange this is to people
That Wario's side kick would be given Wario's symbol...

 

[The Light Music Club]

I love how strange this is to people
That Wario's side kick would be given Wario's symbol...

Well you know, Camelot made Waluigi to be his Tennis doubles partner in a MARIO game. So yeah, he is representing the Mario series.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Cue the Bayonetta supporters.

Alternatively, cue the "Zero Suit Samus kinda moves and attacks like Bayonetta, which means Ridley!" hub-bub.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'd like to pose a question. Who do you guys think, once unlocked, will cause Yoshi to move next to Wario?

Also based on the POTD Monday, I'm convinced Chrom is the Awakening AT, and Micaiah will be the third and final AT for Fire Emblem.

I do not think Yoshi moves next to Wario. I think he stays where he is and likes it.

Well you know, Camelot made Waluigi to be his Tennis doubles partner in a MARIO game. So yeah, he is representing the Mario series.

I'm aware of his origin. This is 2014. I think it makes complete sense that he has the Wario symbol. It also preps him to be a Wario representative next game. It quite frankly is stranger for him to be a Mario character- obviously Sakurai sees the Marioverse as one universe with separate game franchises. Yoshi amid the Mario roster starts to prove it. Honestly, we try to categorize characters for ease, but really, it is not black and white, so these arbitrary rules we decide are easily thrown out the window. The fact that the Mario spinoffs, which are really all Waluigi is accountable in, are not real Mario games either, makes it all the more questionable where he really stands.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

Cue the Bayonetta supporters.

Alternatively, cue the "Zero Suit Samus kinda moves and attacks like Bayonetta, which means Ridley!" hub-bub.

Awwww, I was expecting a Smash 3DS Direct soon, but this kinda makes things harder for it to happen.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Cue the Bayonetta supporters.

Alternatively, cue the "Zero Suit Samus kinda moves and attacks like Bayonetta, which means Ridley!" hub-bub.

Smash Bros. Direct deconfirmed? Possible, but not necessarily. I wouldn't count on it at this point. Granted I doubt we'd get Bayoneta anyway.

Awwww, I was expecting a Smash 3DS Direct soon, but this kinda makes things harder for it to happen.

A final reveal still makes sense. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a launch trailer for Smash Bros.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

A final reveal still makes sense. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a launch trailer for Smash Bros.

Yeah, I'm almost completely sure Shulk's wasn't the last trailer. I mean, Sakurai would've probably told us, and it wasn't that big of a deal to make the impact a final trailer should make.

Still, I kinda expected a Smash 3DS right before launch with a few surprises.

 

[Rockaphin]

I love how strange this is to people
That Wario's side kick would be given Wario's symbol...

I understand what you're getting at, but until he's appeared in a Wario game, namely Warioware as I believe that is where the icon originated from, I consider him a Mario character who's role is to do nothing assist Wario. Unlike Waluigi, Wario has branched away from the Mario series.

I'd love a Wario and Waluigi Double Trouble game. Maybe then, I'd give a crap about Waluigi lol

So he would be a clone of Mario still right assuming he's a last-minute clone like Dr. Mario.

I believe Paper Mario would've been at least a pseudo-clone if he were added last minute. I think he would've been the more ideal choice but that's a personal thing, and the fact that we now have a Paper Mario stage(which is freakin' awesome). I mean, he's only my most wanted since Melee. However, if he was planned early on, I think he'd be a very unique addition.

 

[Burruni]

Shulk isn't going to be our final newcomer, obviously.

Thus, I HIGHLY doubt he'll be the last trailer.

However, I doubt we'll have another shown before the japanese 3DS release.

I believe Sakurai stated that one of the many reasons that we won't have an SSE-style adventure mode is that people posted the cinematics almost instantly and it really devalued the point of going through that mode.

If the full final roster is going to be leaked Day 1 anyway (and Sakurai knows this, the man ain't stupid to how the community works), the value of the trailers being leaked is fairly moot. Though he stated at one point that all newcomers will have a trailer, at no point did he say that they'd be shown before the first of the 4+ release dates. They'll likely play in part before and after the newcomer fight, and be viewable through a menu like the SSE cutscenes.

 

[False Sense]

http://mii-gamer.com/2014/09/01/dozens-super-smash-bros-posters-popping-across-sations-japan/

Some interesting stuff. There have been loads of Smash Bros. ad posters popping up in Japan.

However, something caught my attention on those. Each poster has a character in the bottom left corner with a number. Samus is 4, Capt. Falcon is 10, Peach is 11, Zero Suit Samus is 18, Ike is 19, Charizard is 20, Olimar is 23, Lucina is 33 and Sonic is 35. What is the meaning of this? The order does make sense too... Smash 64 veterans first, then Melee veterans, Brawl veterans next, then the newcomers and lastly the third party characters.

Could this be a clue regarding the starting roster?

Didn't they do something similar with the montage of characters at the end of the Smash Direct?

 

[Deathcarter]

I'd like to pose a question. Who do you guys think, once unlocked, will cause Yoshi to move next to Wario?

Also based on the POTD Monday, I'm convinced Chrom is the Awakening AT, and Micaiah will be the third and final AT for Fire Emblem.

...I forget Fire Emblem hadn't even gotten a second AT yet. God I'm hoping they don't pull another Riki. Owain, Tharja, Anna, and Tiki would be much better options for an Assist Trophy than Chrom.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I understand what you're getting at, but until he's appeared in a Wario game, namely Warioware as I believe that is where the icon originated from, I consider him a Mario character who's role is to do nothing assist Wario. Unlike Waluigi, Wario has branched away from the Mario series.

I just don't see Mario Sports games as 'Mario' games- I see them as Mario Universe games. The Mushroom icon is clearly for 'Mario' games, not all Mario Universe games and characters, because the sports games are a spinoff franchise, just lie the ones with the other featured characters.