Character Discussion Thread

[Substitution]

Eh, I'm not that big on Dark Pit either. We already have Pit and Palutena, that should be enough.

 

[Zwzchow]

That would just be super wrong. The New 3DS is currently a Japan-only console, so it would just be mean if only the Japanese are able to utilize such bonus content.

But it would be stupid for Ninty not release such and awesome upgrade worldwide (I think they already planned a 2015 release)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Eh, I'm not that big on Dark Pit either. We already have Pit and Palutena, that should be enough.

Any yet there are people who want Dr. Mario back. Dr. Mario and Mario are one in the same, so wouldn't Dr. Mario be better off as an alternate outfit for Mario?

 

[Substitution]

Any yet there are people who want Dr. Mario back. Dr. Mario and Mario are one in the same, so wouldn't Dr. Mario be better off as an alternate outfit for Mario?

I don't know why Sakurai picked Dark Pit or Dr. Mario as characters. Because I'm not him, nor do I know what's in his head. That question is better fit for the man himself. Sure, I could guess, but in all honesty it really means next to nothing. As for all I know I could be completely off the mark.

That, and I'm very biased when it comes to Dr. Mario inclusion. Since I did want him.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Any yet there are people who want Dr. Mario back. Dr. Mario and Mario are one in the same, so wouldn't Dr. Mario be better off as an alternate outfit for Mario?

He would be an alt., if the devs didn't have the time to develop 3 last-minute clones. You don't want extra characters?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He would be an alt., if the devs didn't have the time to develop 3 last-minute clones. You don't want extra characters?

Not if they're pointless clones. Even Dark Pit is better off as a palette swap for Pit; Dark Link is a palette swap for Link after all.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I just don't want this overload of Mario characters to have any effect on additions of other big franchises. Namely; and .

I agree. We really need a Metroid character pretty bad

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not if they're pointless clones. Even Dark Pit is better off as a palette swap for Pit; Dark Link is a palette swap for Link after all.

Your opinion I guess, but we do have a character whose change is only based on the sword.

 

[Rockaphin]

He would be an alt., if the devs didn't have the time to develop 3 last-minute clones. You don't want extra characters?

That comes down to preference, characters like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit? Nah, I'd personally rather that time go to something else.

I'd like Mario's customization to be as deep as Palutena's. Mr. Power-Ups deserves a good amount of customization and it's sad to see how little has been done.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sakurai stated that as long as a character can do something different from it's base, it'll be made into a full character instead of being a skin (as the Koopalings). Dr.Mario throws pills. Lucina has the Parralel Falchion thus no tipper. Dark Pit will PROBABLY have something going for him as well. I don't neccecary hate him. I hate the fact that he, and Dr.Mario, where chosen above characters from other series. I think that most people would be 100% cool with a newcomer from DKC, F-Zero, Mother, Kirby, StarFox or Zelda despite them being a clone. Mario and Kid Icarus already have ****loads of content, so a clone character from ANY different series would've been better.

At least, according to my own, strictly personal, humble, modest, opinion.

I agree. We really need a Metroid character pretty bad

No, you said a Samus character.

is what you where most likely looking for.

Also, what if Zelda was a gurl?

 

[Staarih]

I'm warming up to Dr. Mario's re-inclusion, as long as he is what he pretty much was in Melee (down + b tornado, pills and all that). That makes him a "fluddless" Mario, which is what Mario really should have been in the first place haha, already differentiating the two quite a bit. I'm also slowly accepting Dark Pit, don't have a choice really do I haha... but he still irks me a little for whatever reason.

I also agree with Zelda, Metroid and DK needing someone new.

 

[The Light Music Club]

So do you guys think we have four characters left that aren't shown in the leak or something else? The POTD eased my worry. But they must not be too objectionable since ESRB didn't need to see them.

 

[Rockaphin]

Sakurai stated that as long as a character can do something different from it's base, it'll be made into a full character instead of being a skin (as the Koopalings). Dr.Mario throws pills. Lucina has the Parralel Falchion thus no tipper. Dark Pit will PROBABLY have something going for him as well. I don't neccecary hate him. I hate the fact that he, and Dr.Mario, where chosen above characters from other series. I think that most people would be 100% cool with a newcomer from DKC, F-Zero, Mother, Kirby, StarFox or Zelda despite them being a clone. Mario and Kid Icarus already have ****loads of content, so a clone character from ANY different series would've been better.

At least, according to my own, strictly personal, humble, modest, opinion.

If they really needed some potential clone characters, there's plenty to chose from. Heck, why cut clones if you're just going to add some? Especially Wolf or Lucas.

And on the topic of newcomer clones, Black Shadow would work well as well as Dixie Kong. She's perfect semi-clone material and among the most wanted characters out there. I think she'd be a no brainer if it came down to, "We need to beef up the roster with clone characters, who should we include?"

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Your opinion I guess, but we do have a character whose change is only based on the sword.

To be fair, Lucina is a completely different entity from Marth, so her inclusion makes sense. The last thing we need is a repeat of Mario Kart 8's roster, where there are as many as three Marios (Mario, Metal Mario, Tanooki Mario).

 

[BluePikmin11]

To be fair, Lucina is a completely different entity from Marth, so her inclusion makes sense. The last thing we need is a repeat of Mario Kart 8's roster, where there are as many as three Mario clones and Peach clones.

So is Dark Pit, and technically Dr. Mario (I think @GoldenYuiitusin said that Dr. Mario was canonically from another universe) too.

 

[Rockaphin]

So is Dark Pit, and technically Dr. Mario (I think @GoldenYuiitusin said that Dr. Mario was canonically from another universe) too.

Straight from the instruction manual:

"MY NAME IS DR. MARIO
Hi everybody! I'm Mario. How's it going? Over the last few years, I've
been involved in some pretty wild adventures. Now, believe it or not, I
work in the virus research lab at the Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. Today I'm
about to begin my research as usual."

But Paper Mario isn't in a different universe?

Oh and here's picture evidence:

Spoiler

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm warming up to Dr. Mario's re-inclusion, as long as he is what he pretty much was in Melee (down + b tornado, pills and all that). That makes him a "fluddless" Mario, which is what Mario really should have been in the first place haha, already differentiating the two quite a bit. I'm also slowly accepting Dark Pit, don't have a choice really do I haha... but he still irks me a little for whatever reason.

I also agree with Zelda, Metroid and DK needing someone new.

So we agree that a stupid decision is the only positive outlook on another stupid decision?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So is Dark Pit, and technically Dr. Mario (I think @GoldenYuiitusin said that Dr. Mario was canonically from another universe) too.

We don't really need more Super Mario franchise reps after Bowser Jr. though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Straight from the instruction manual:

"MY NAME IS DR. MARIO
Hi everybody! I'm Mario. How's it going? Over the last few years, I've
been involved in some pretty wild adventures. Now, believe it or not, I
work in the virus research lab at the Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. Today I'm
about to begin my research as usual."

 

[Substitution]

Straight from the instruction manual:

"MY NAME IS DR. MARIO
Hi everybody! I'm Mario. How's it going? Over the last few years, I've
been involved in some pretty wild adventures. Now, believe it or not, I
work in the virus research lab at the Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. Today I'm
about to begin my research as usual."

But Paper Mario isn't in a different universe?

Oh and here's picture evidence:

Spoiler

Christ. He's a carpenter, a plumber, a kart racer, a soccer/baseball/basketball/golf/tennis player, and a doctor?!
What on earth isn't he?!

 

[Rockaphin]

With the inclusion of Dr. Mario, a Nurse Peach alt costume would be pretty sweet!

Christ. He's a carpenter, a plumber, a kart racer, a soccer/baseball/basketball/golf/tennis player, and a doctor?!
What on earth isn't he?!

He's also a pilot, or at least can drive a plane and a submarine! He's yet to be an American Football player!

 

[Staarih]

If they really needed some potential clone characters, there's plenty to chose from. Heck, why cut clones if you're just going to add some? Especially Wolf or Lucas.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Mario and Dark Pit are a result of something similar than what Sakurai did with Lucina: intended as alt costumes at first and programmed as such in the game, but later altered into their own characters (which is easier to do since they already existed in the game) to buff up the roster. Wolf and Lucas probably weren't planned to be in the game to begin with, so there wasn't anything to work with regarding them. But I do think those two have a shot of making it in, still, especially Wolf.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I don't really hate Pittoo or the Doc. Sure Doc could have easily been an alt for Mario, just because the pills look different doesn't mean they have to actually function differently, but there's no reason to dislike him being separate other than him not being by Mario, damn unorganized roster. Pittoo was a decent enough character in Uprising, but he's still just a generic "dark version of the protagonist," and being Sakurai's creation, I can see how some might call Sakurai biased... I would have preferred Viridi myself.

Doc might anger those who wanted Mewtwo, and I can kind of see where they're coming from, since Mewtwo is the most requested character overall... But that doesn't mean Doc got in over him. Though it is a bit odd that Sakurai looked back at Melee and thought "people want Mewtwo and even Roy, Dr. Mario it is then." But I never cared much for Mewtwo, so I guess I'm not biased for this one.

I'm indifferent to Lucina, as I didn't care for her much as I played through Awakening, and in terms of Smash, Robin is the only FE character I do care about. I guess Roy would have been better, considering Doc is back, but IS probably didn't want that.

I'm not sure what to think in terms of the Melee vets and clones, Mewtwo may still be in and Roy could possibly even be an alt. What I'm worried about are the new cuts, Snake, Ice Climbers, Wolf, Lucas, Pokemon Trainer...

 

[BluePikmin11]

We don't really need more Super Mario franchise reps after Bowser Jr. though.

Dr. Mario is technically it's own franchise.

Straight from the instruction manual:

"MY NAME IS DR. MARIO
Hi everybody! I'm Mario. How's it going? Over the last few years, I've
been involved in some pretty wild adventures. Now, believe it or not, I
work in the virus research lab at the Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. Today I'm
about to begin my research as usual."

But Paper Mario isn't in a different universe?

Oh and here's picture evidence:

Spoiler

I usually think manual descriptions aren't really canon. But yeah, it's probably just Mario in a doctor outfit.
Then again we can have ZSS and Samus as seperate characters even though they are the same person.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mario's Melee trophy states the following...

Known worldwide as Mr. Nintendo, Mario uses his incredible jumping ability to thwart the evil Bowser time after time. While he's best known as a hero, Mario has played many roles, including racer, doctor, golfer, and villain. His tastes have changed over 20 years of gaming; he long ago swapped the colors of his shirt and overalls.

During that time, nothing was mentioned about him being involved in RPG adventures, nor is there any mentioning of him being in a paper universe. Even his Brawl trophy failed to mention RPG involvement.

A familiar overall-clad figure who is Nintendo's flagship character. His courage and jumping ability have seen him through countless adventures. He's a multitalented plumber with the knowledge of a physician, a top-notch golfer, and a veteran tennis umpire. Is his jumping prowess a boon from his girder-climbing days?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Dr. Mario is technically it's own franchise.

I think we should stop trying to justify things with made up definitions. Unless Doc has a completely new symbol this time around, he's still a Mario character. Even so, Yoshi has been in his own "franchise" since SSB64, yet he's now inexplicably placed right in the middle of the Mario characters. Mario is Mario, Yoshi is from Mario, etc. We don't need to justify a clone's existence.

 

[Rockaphin]

I usually think manual descriptions aren't really canon. But yeah, it's probably just Mario in a doctor outfit.
Then again we can have ZSS and Samus as seperate characters even though they are the same person.

Same with Zelda and Sheik. Toon Link is an incarnation of Link as well so some could count them being the same.

Sadly, I threw away many of my old manuals. I actually enjoyed reading them as a kid, you usually found out some rather strange information. Heck, some times you had to read the manual just to understand the stories!

Technically, Dark Pit is Pit. That is, if his DNA is the exact same, but then again, I'm not a doctor. Why don't you ask Dr. Mario?

 

[~Krystal~]

Manuals hardly ever get included in games anymore. They used to be so colorful and fun to read.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Dr. Mario is probably going to have his own symbol considering the fact Waluigi is now a Wario character, I think it's safe to say that Dr. Mario will have a pill symbol instead of the Mushroom icon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dr. Mario is probably going to have his own symbol considering the fact Waluigi is now a Wario character, I think it's safe to say that Dr. Mario will have a pill symbol instead of the Mushroom icon.

When did this happen?

 

[Rockaphin]

When did this happen?

He had the Wario icon in the Smash Direct for some unknown reason. He's never appeared in a Wario game so I don't know what they were smoking.

 

[Diddy Kong]

He had the Wario icon in the Smash Direct for some unknown reason. He's never appeared in a Wario game so I don't know what they were smoking.

Now you've said this, I want to smoke a jay with Sakurai.

 

[Muster]

Any yet there are people who want Dr. Mario back. Dr. Mario and Mario are one in the same, so wouldn't Dr. Mario be better off as an alternate outfit for Mario?

Most people who want Doctor mario back are people who preferred his moveset. Sakurai is adamant in not bringing back Mario's tornado special and keeping his Fair as a meteor smash, so i'm going to be playing doc instead.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Manuals hardly ever get included in games anymore. They used to be so colorful and fun to read.

I miss real manuals. Even if you knew how to play, they were entertaining to flip through.

As for Waluigi being a Wario character, I cling to the vain hope that it foreshadows his appearance in an upcoming Wario Land game where he is the second player character.

 

[Morbi]

Straight from the instruction manual:

"MY NAME IS DR. MARIO
Hi everybody! I'm Mario. How's it going? Over the last few years, I've
been involved in some pretty wild adventures. Now, believe it or not, I
work in the virus research lab at the Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. Today I'm
about to begin my research as usual."

But Paper Mario isn't in a different universe?

Oh and here's picture evidence:

Spoiler

To be fair, that; at the very most, implies that he is from the same universe. It does not explicitly state which "pretty wild adventures" happened over the last few years.

I don't know why Sakurai picked Dark Pit or Dr. Mario as characters. Because I'm not him, nor do I know what's in his head. That question is better fit for the man himself. Sure, I could guess, but in all honesty it really means next to nothing. As for all I know I could be completely off the mark.

That, and I'm very biased when it comes to Dr. Mario inclusion. Since I did want him.

Why Dr. Mario or Dark Pit? You do not need to be Sakurai to discern why those are ideal choices. Dr. Mario is a clone of Nintendo's mascot, thereby making him one of the most prominent clones. However, that's not all! Dr. Mario is also a veteran character. Just in case it was not blatantly obvious, Sakurai does not cut clone characters just because they are clones. He already brought back Young Link through Toon Link in Brawl and Roy through Lucina in Smash 4. It is not outlandish to believe that he would bring back Dr. Mario and add Raichu.

Dark Pit is another choice that seems odd because, "we already have Palutena and Pit." But in the end, it is not odd given the over-saturation of Kid Icarus through everything aside from playable characters and Sakurai's treatment of the franchise. Sora Ltd. did revive the franchise, after all. Sakurai also, quite clearly intends on keeping the series alive. He puts it on par with the elites such as: Mario, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, Star Fox, Kirby, and Legend of Zelda. This was observable far before he was ever teased at the end of Palutena's trailer. In the same way that Kirby was justified two newcomers in Brawl, Kid Icarus is justified two newcomers at the current. ESPECIALLY given the notion that one of them is a clone. A clone that was conceived as a palette in Smash. In that way, he is one of our first Smash original characters, kind of.

It is also important to note that based on Sakurai's assertions... these characters WERE costumes before he gave them different attributes at little to no development costs. If you wish to complain about costumes being slightly different and granted their own slots, feel free to do so.

The reason using Sakurai's words, as you thought it better to ask the man himself:

"However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!"

In the case of Dr. Mario, at the very least, the characteristic differences were established a decade ago and as many have already mentioned, a prominent aspect of Dr. Mario are the pills. F.L.U.D.D also poses a crux. However, there is another reason that many overlook. I highlighted it for your convenience because no one ever reads the paragraph that soft-confirmed Dr. Mario AND Dark Pit before the leak was even uttered.

 

[StrangeMann]

In my honest opinion on the mario franchise- Sure, It's nintendo's mascot franchise.I can understand it getting the most characters...
...But when that margin for the largest number of characters hits 7 characters while Zelda and pokemon get 5, the salt is real.
If all we're getting left is the leaked roster(I doubt it, because the esrb leak is about 2 months old, about the time when they rated it), Mario quite literally ATE DK's and Wario/Yoshi's newcomers.
I feel like characters which have their own games in the mario universe are subjected to the mario's universe's presence on the roster, especially when there's still 1-2 VERY popular mario reps left to put in (Toad and Waluigi, if waluigi counts).
But even then, the total number of mario universe characters, INCLUDING Dk,wario, and yoshi, is 11 characters out of 49 character roster(so far). That's almost 1/4 of the total characters, add pokemon and zelda and that's about half your roster right there.

 

[Morbi]

In my honest opinion on the mario franchise- Sure, It's nintendo's mascot franchise.I can understand it getting the most characters...
...But when that margin for the largest number of characters hits 7 characters while Zelda and pokemon get 5, the salt is real.
If all we're getting left is the leaked roster(I doubt it, because the esrb leak is about 2 months old, about the time when they rated it), Mario quite literally ATE DK's and Wario/Yoshi's newcomers.
I feel like characters which have their own games in the mario universe are subjected to the mario's universe's presence on the roster, especially when there's still 1-2 VERY popular mario reps left to put in (Toad and Waluigi, if waluigi counts).
But even then, the total number of mario universe characters, INCLUDING Dk,wario, and yoshi, is 11 characters out of 49 character roster(so far). That's almost 1/4 of the total characters, add pokemon and zelda and that's about half your roster right there.

First of all, we do not know the final roster at the current time. Zelda might have six characters (it was supposed to have seven in Brawl, so precedent and whatnot) and Pokemon might have six characters, Pokemon also has the luxury of having no clone characters at the current time (if I recall), whereas Mario has one. I do not enjoy debating "representation;" however, Mario had five characters in Melee. So it is not outlandish, given the time frame, that two more characters would be introduced. One of them did not even exist until a couple of years ago, I do not believe that Bowser Jr. was overly prominent during the Melee era either. Honestly, it seems natural as Mario did not grow in Brawl, it lost Dr. Mario who is now reclaiming his rightful place on the roster.

I see the inherent issue... but at the same time, it does not bother me too much as Wario feels as though he is from WarioWare. Donkey Kong feels as though he is from Donkey Kong. Yoshi on the other hand?

 

[NickerBocker]

I think its really strange how Sakurai mentions how lucky Lucina is for getting in, yet he does the same for (objectively) 2 characters.

That to me isnt lucky. That is planned.

 

[Morbi]

I think its really strange how Sakurai mentions how lucky Lucina is for getting in, yet he does the same for (objectively) 2 characters.

That to me isnt lucky. That is planned.

To be fair, he was not just referencing Lucina, he was referencing the concept (costumes with different attributes entail a slot due to battle-records) during Lucina's reveal as that was what the interview topic was. That paragraph is not actually explicitly about Lucina, you could probably argue that she is not even the subject. Obviously he used her name to keep it relevant though.

 

[T-Hell]

If only We got Paper Mario instead of Dr Mario I would feel much better, at least he would look interesting and probably unique (he's also cooler).