Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

You need to cut Lucas, Wolf, IC, and Snake if this a prediction.

I don't predict they're getting cut.
Mainly because

Leaks aren't always 100% correct.

 

[Burruni]

Y'know.... I just had an idea. An absolutely crazy idea. ONE JUST CRAZY ENOUGH TO WORK.

We know that a roster leak comes out that polarizes the Smash community.

Videos come off showing 2 of the newcomers on the leak, one being one of the most likely newcomers discussed and the other being one that some people really believed in, but disregarded after the addition of Rosalina.

Sakurai releases a series of PotDs which coincide with what was leaked.

We all know that Sakurai isn't ignorant to leaks, true or not, (Palutena Leak got the Palutena Statue PotD on the day it became massive, Pseudo-Palutena trophy. The entire way Chrom was used in the Robin/Lucina video. Sakurai KNOWS.)

Reveal trailer comes out right before the japanese 3DS release, shows off Shulk (who is one of the most Japanese desired characters). Everyone has only mild hype brought upon after the leak video.

Suddenly.
Right by the end, Shulk has a vision of a giant iceberg sprouting from the ground and jumps away.

Camera pans to the top of the iceberg.

Ice Climbers - Chill Out. (Alternatively, Bring Double Trouble).

End trailer.

Sakurai wins.

Who else wants to see this happen?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't predict they're getting cut.
Mainly because

Leaks aren't always 100% correct.

Even after the the pure legitimacy of the roster leak?
With actual visual gameplay of the final build that's arguably tons more credible than the Gematsu text leak?

 

[Kenith]

Even after the the pure legitimacy of the roster leak?

Oh yes, I've never heard that line before. Especially in regards to Gematsu, oh my.
The only thing that is most likely legitimate is the footage and the photos. Everything else has a lot of misinformation.

 

[M23-X0]

Seriously, it didn't occured me at first because of the new characters, but two of my three "mains" from Brawl are cut o_O. It was Lucas and Wolf (the other one being Olimar). And now I'm sad...

 

[SethTheMage]

The feels you guys.

Holy ****. All of my feels. That hit me hard. Especially with the Mother 3 music.

 

[Shorts]

Opinion time.

Do you think this is the final roster (all characters unlocked)?

Do you think we will get DLC?

 

[Kenith]

I believe what I saw, for the most part, but not what I read.
There were multiple leakers fighting over the images and impersonating each other, most giving information without visual proof.

So, until I see the entire roster from the Word of Based-Sakurai, I don't think anyone's cut.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

You need to cut Lucas, Wolf, IC, and Snake if this a prediction.

BELIEVE IN THE DLC

 

[BluePikmin11]

Opinion time.

Do you think this is the final roster (all characters unlocked)?

Do you think we will get DLC?

No, since the All-Star pic implies that the ESRB build is incomplete, I believe we'll get a few more such as Chorus Men and Mach Rider.

 

[Kenith]

Opinion time.
Do you think this is the final roster (all characters unlocked)?
Do you think we will get DLC?

No.
Yes.

Speaking of DLC...Who would they choose?
I would think that whatever DLC characters they had planned would be obvious because they're glaringly absent in any form in the game.

Unless they had DLC Playable Assist Trophies.

The original Assist Trophies are replaced with these clones.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Opinion time.

Do you think this is the final roster (all characters unlocked)?

Do you think we will get DLC?

Nope. We had a locked symbol on All-Stars, and that is enough proof that there are still more characters left

 

[ElPanandero]

Issac for DLC please

 

[Kenith]

Issac for DLC please

I hope he is an Assist Trophy, because he is good candidate for a playable character.
I am sure there will be DLC characters, and if they spend all their best potential playable characters on Assist Trophies...

You know where I'm going with this, right?

 

[Master of Bones]

Opinion time.

Do you think this is the final roster (all characters unlocked)?

Do you think we will get DLC?

I'm not sure this is the final roster. Ridley, Mewtwo, and Dixie have way too much going for them for the collective three of them to not make it. I do expect at least two of them to be in (then again, the general disclaimer of "Sakurai").

If Mario Kart can get DLC, I see no reason to not utilize it for Smash. Especially for the rumored cuts and popular icons like K. Rool (who isn't looking too good as a member of the release roster).

 

[YoshiandToad]

No.
Yes.

Speaking of DLC...Who would they choose?
I would think that whatever DLC characters they had planned would be obvious because they're glaringly absent in any form in the game.

Unless they had DLC Playable Assist Trophies.


View attachment 23207

The original Assist Trophies are replaced with these clones.

Oh my god, speculation is never going to end is it?

Mother of Pearl.

 

[Shorts]

No, since the All-Star pic implies that the ESRB build is incomplete, I believe we'll get a few more such as Chorus Men and Mach Rider.

Someone show me this.

Also, I believe the best choices for unlockables / newcomers are as followed:

Dixie Kong
Ridley
Mewtwo
Chorus Men
Isaac
Lucas
Snake
Wolf
Ice Climbers

A lot of characters got BTFO at this point.

Oh my god, speculation is never going to end is it?

Mother of Pearl.

What do you expect? In a character discussion thread? After most the roster has been announced? And dlc was announced for other games? And rumors all point to DLC?

Really tho

 

[Kalimdori]

Opinion time.

Do you think this is the final roster (all characters unlocked)?

Do you think we will get DLC?

No to the first, yes to the second.

Allstar was locked, which means we don't have the final roster.

Mario Kart is getting character DLC, I would be surprised if Nintendo didn't try to exploit the potential gold mine that is character DLC for Smash.

 

[Shorts]

Allstar was locked, which means we don't have the final roster.

Okay, now I understand.

 

[YoshiandToad]

What do you expect? In a character discussion thread? After most the roster has been announced? And dlc was announced for other games? And rumors all point to DLC?

Really tho

That's all fine and dandy, but when characters we presumed deconfirmed are suddenly suggested to be brought back from their Assist Trophy status, we're pretty much back to square one.

I don't expect that to be a thing, thanks very much.

Edit: Wait; Kenith didn't even have Ghirahim in that lot? Something's up.

 

[Shorts]

You honestly never know. This roster size, cuts, character choices, two games, ect ect. All defied any logic we presumed would govern Smash 4's creation, and yet here we are.

Sad day, I had Tharja, Medusa, and Krystal all killed off simultaniously when that imgur leaked.

 

[Kenith]

That's all fine and dandy, but when characters we presumed deconfirmed are suddenly suggested to be brought back from their Assist Trophy status, we're pretty much back to square one.

Not necessarily. We have a general idea of the selection process now. There are only a few Assist trophies that would make viable candidates that are actually worth the effort.

Edit: Wait; Kenith didn't even have Ghirahim in that lot? Something's up.

Well, I actually prefer Midna by a lot compared to him, but you know how that ended a long time ago.
Plus, if I start touting the potential of Ghirahim as DLC, I'm going to get dirty looks, and lots of them.

Besides all that, there's only so many characters you can add...

 

[Lucimar]

Seriously, it didn't occured me at first because of the new characters, but two of my three "mains" from Brawl are cut o_O. It was Lucas and Wolf (the other one being Olimar). And now I'm sad...

I know exactly how you feel. Lucas and Olimar were my mains and Wolf was a secondary. I'm still hoping that Wolf and Lucas make it in.

 

[Sage of Ice]

All I want in the world right now is for Mewtwo, Lucas, and Wolf to be three of the remaining characters.

I don't have high expectations for the Ice Climbers, though. Their best hope at this point is if they're unlocks, but changing them from starters would be the most arbitrary and pointless decision. I never really play as them and I don't particularly care for them, but it just wouldn't feel like Smash without them...

 

[~Krystal~]

The one character I "mained" isn't looking so hot right now. I should have seen this coming, really. Third party characters aren't meant to last forever. Unless anyone in my siggy gets in, it's a toss up between Villager and Wii Fit Trainer for my next main on those very very rare occasions I decide to play with items off.

 

[epicgordan]

Oh yes, I've never heard that line before. Especially in regards to Gematsu, oh my.
The only thing that is most likely legitimate is the footage and the photos. Everything else has a lot of misinformation.

It's worth noting that in accordance to the leaked images, Lucas and Snake cannot possibly return. Lucas because Ness is listed after Pokémon but between ROB and Captain Falcon (if Lucas was coming back, Ness would have been grouped before the Kirby characters), suggest that he's a single franchise rep this time; and Snake because all the other third parties were grouped together with Mario and Link in the All-Star icon. However, nothing about the leak points towards Wolf or Ice Climbers being cut.

Unless I am missing something, because I thought it was cleared up by Shun and Ninka that their source isn't 100% certain of the cuts and that they were simply not on the CSS.

 

[mini paincakes]

Mario Kart 8 increased the overall Stage selection by 50% for only $12. By this logic we will get at least 20-something new characters for Smash DLC.

/s

But seriously, I hope we at least get DLC for all the cut Brawl vets.

 

[epicgordan]

Cuts: Lucas, Snake, Ivysaur, Squirtle
DLC: Captain Toad

Again, Ness is grouped with the single IP's between ROB and Captain Falcon, and Snake isn't anywhere in All-Star mode's icon alongside the other third parties.

Edit: Also, the Ice Climbers and Wolf are the only two characters I can think of that can help both of these CSS's make any sense in accordance to Vaanrose's CSS theories while also keeping all the other characters on here (Bandana Dee could also potentially join the battle).

 

[pupNapoleon]

Mario Kart 8 increased the overall Stage selection by 50% for only $12. By this logic we will get at least 20-something new characters for Smash DLC.

/s

But seriously, I hope we at least get DLC for all the cut Brawl vets.

Okay, let us clear something up. Adding a character to smash bros is not adding a character, nor a course, to Mario Kart.
Adding a course or a character to Mario Kart affects very little, it is a standalone event, which does not need to be programmed in tandem with anythinges else- meaning, it can be extremely easy or difficult, it does not need to play off of anything else. Balance is no issue as long as it plays well, or controls well, and is fun.

This is not so for Smash bros. Adding a character to Smash is much more complicated- for many reasons. The fist principle is that they actually... do things, unlike in Mario Kart, where they are essentially a face, in smash, you control them, in so many aspects, they have real life to them, not just as an image with weight properties. Yet, this is not the hard part.

Sakurai has stated before that adding characters to Smash is in fact, character multiplication. Not addition. Why is this so? If we have 50 characters, and add one more, is that not addition?
The answer, is no. All characters need to be balanced versus each other, o when you add one more character, you need to play it against each of the other characters. It is not simply adding it into the 50, it is playing it against each of the other 50 characters.

VISUAL:If we just have three characters, Mario, Link, and Pikachu, there are only a few matches of 1v1 to worry about. Mario-Mario, Mario-Link, Mario-Pikachu, Link-Link, Link-Pikachu, and Pikachu-Pikachu. If you add in ONE character, Kirby, you get four more options. Kirby-Kirby, Kirby-Mario, Kirby-Link, Kirby-Pikachu. Then, add in Samus, and you get Samus-Samus, Samus-Mario, Samus-Link, Samus-Pikachu, Samus-Kirby. This is without factoring in 3 or 4 player matches at all! It is actually a very strenuous process, and why a 4-player fighting game of such freedom is so hard to balance.

 

[Burruni]

It's worth noting that in accordance to the leaked images, Lucas and Snake cannot possibly return. Lucas because Ness is listed after Pokémon but between ROB and Captain Falcon (if Lucas was coming back, Ness would have been grouped before the Kirby characters), suggest that he's a single franchise rep this time; and Snake because all the other third parties were grouped together with Mario and Link in the All-Star icon. However, nothing about the leak points towards Wolf or Ice Climbers being cut.

Unless I am missing something, because I thought it was cleared up by Shun and Ninka that their source isn't 100% certain of the cuts and that they were simply not on the CSS.

What you are missing is that the CSS changes ALL the time as you unlock and expand.

While this is the STARTING roster for Brawl, it proves how scattered the characters of a series can be before everyone is unlocked. As it fills out, more and more characters get into position. The fact that the 3 "newcomer" clones are off on their own indicates that icons will shift. Who says Lucas won't move where Captain Falcon is and The Captain will move elsewhere?

And here's the point that some people can do CRAZY things once they start getting some of the roster known in layout and design. Suspicion should always be present when we look at what MAY be.

As many have said, the information revealed through the videos / trophy screenshots merely confirms Ganondorf, Wario, Shulk, and Bowser Jr. The rest looks likely because of how it coincides, but we can't be SURE.

 

[ElPanandero]

Okay, let us clear something up. Adding a character to smash bros is not adding a character, nor a course, to Mario Kart.
Adding a course or a character to Mario Kart affects very little, it is a standalone event, which does not need to be programmed in tandem with anythinges else- meaning, it can be extremely easy or difficult, it does not need to play off of anything else. Balance is no issue as long as it plays well, or controls well, and is fun.

This is not so for Smash bros. Adding a character to Smash is much more complicated- for many reasons. The fist principle is that they actually... do things, unlike in Mario Kart, where they are essentially a face, in smash, you control them, in so many aspects, they have real life to them, not just as an image with weight properties. Yet, this is not the hard part.

Sakurai has stated before that adding characters to Smash is in fact, character multiplication. Not addition. Why is this so? If we have 50 characters, and add one more, is that not addition?
The answer, is no. All characters need to be balanced versus each other, o when you add one more character, you need to play it against each of the other characters. It is not simply adding it into the 50, it is playing it against each of the other 50 characters.

VISUAL:If we just have three characters, Mario, Link, and Pikachu, there are only a few matches of 1v1 to worry about. Mario-Mario, Mario-Link, Mario-Pikachu, Link-Link, Link-Pikachu, and Pikachu-Pikachu. If you add in ONE character, Kirby, you get four more options. Kirby-Kirby, Kirby-Mario, Kirby-Link, Kirby-Pikachu. Then, add in Samus, and you get Samus-Samus, Samus-Mario, Samus-Link, Samus-Pikachu, Samus-Kirby. This is without factoring in 3 or 4 player matches at all! It is actually a very strenuous process, and why a 4-player fighting game of such freedom is so hard to balance.

/s means end sarcasm I believe. He was kidding about that many characters actually being added I think

 

[PlTe]

Okay, now I understand.

Though we don't know the circumstances of All Star being locked. The two pictures could've been from different times, we don't know FOR SURE.

 

[epicgordan]

What you are missing is that the CSS changes ALL the time as you unlock and expand.

While this is the STARTING roster for Brawl, it proves how scattered the characters of a series can be before everyone is unlocked. As it fills out, more and more characters get into position. The fact that the 3 "newcomer" clones are off on their own indicates that icons will shift. Who says Lucas won't move where Captain Falcon is and The Captain will move elsewhere?

And here's the point that some people can do CRAZY things once they start getting some of the roster known in layout and design. Suspicion should always be present when we look at what MAY be.

As many have said, the information revealed through the videos / trophy screenshots merely confirms Ganondorf, Wario, Shulk, and Bowser Jr. The rest looks likely because of how it coincides, but we can't be SURE.

You also forget that if Lucas was coming back, that Ness would be positioned before the Kirby franchise instead. Yes, the CSS can move around, but if it did, then Little Mac would have been in a different position that he would have been in the leaked CSS, and that simply wasn't the case.

Ice Climbers and Wolf, and strangely enough, Ivysaur and Squirtle are the only pairs of Brawl vets that have a shot at getting in now. Based on my CSS, the only other character I can think of that can crack the roster is Bandana Dee.

 

[Burruni]

You also forget that if Lucas was coming back, that Ness would be positioned before the Kirby franchise instead. Yes, the CSS can move around, but if it did, then Little Mac would have been in a different position that he would have been in the leaked CSS, and that simply wasn't the case.

Ice Climbers and Wolf, and strangely enough, Ivysaur and Squirtle are the only pairs of Brawl vets that have a shot at getting in now. Based on my CSS, the only other character I can think of that can crack the roster is Bandana Dee.

You have the Retro characters split up by placing Mr. G&W away from DHD, IC, ROB, and MR with your layout.

Every character besides Shulk and Mii Fighters on your last "Full" row is apart from the rest of their franchises, the latter of which being confirmed to be their own menu altogether.

All I am saying is that the CSS organization is subject to change at almost any moment, and your own roster layout divides up some characters from the rest of their respective franchises.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

THING ABOUT LEAK

Spoiler

LONG STORY SHORT. SHULK. EYES.

??

 

[Kenith]

e we at least get DLC for all the cut Brawl vets.

I hope we get DLC for all the vets in general.

Spoiler

 

[pupNapoleon]

/s means end sarcasm I believe. He was kidding about that many characters actually being added I think

People keep comparing this to Mario Kart.
I believe DLC will happen, but it has nothing to do with 'Because Mario Kart did it.'

 

[mark welford]

with the CSS looking like that and AS mode being locked wolf's chances look good in my eyes but you guys might have different opinions than me go ahead quote me I will not respond back.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Now that the DLC portion of the leak was apparently false, I'm confident that the leaked roster is missing characters, assuming Sakurai isn't going for a Melee style selection screen again (and boy is the positioning whack if he is...). If there are squares left to be filled, it would appear that five characters have yet to be seen. I personally believe that ICs and Wolf will be two of them. I'm still pretty sure Snake is cut, so that leaves 3 spots. I'd personally like Lucas to come back and for there to be two more newcomers left unrevealed.

TL:DR I think there's five locked characters on that select screen. ICs, Wolf, Lucas, and two newcomers.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Now that the DLC portion of the leak was apparently false, I'm confident that the leaked roster is missing characters, assuming Sakurai isn't going for a Melee style selection screen again (and boy is the positioning whack if he is...). If there are squares left to be filled, it would appear that five characters have yet to be seen. I personally believe that ICs and Wolf will be two of them. I'm still pretty sure Snake is cut, so that leaves 3 spots. I'd personally like Lucas to come back and for there to be two more newcomers left unrevealed.

TL:DR I think there's five locked characters on that select screen. ICs, Wolf, Lucas, and two newcomers.

Unfortunately I think IC and Lucas are blatantly out. Wolf is the one member of those three I think may actually be back. For the others I can guess two of them, but I'd rather not do so for the rest. A DK newcomer and Ridley. Maybe Mewtwo coming back as well, its a punch in the face (not a slap) to get Dr. Mario back and not Mewtwo, frankly. Wolf I'm 50/50 on, but he's the one character out of the supposedly cut characters I think may not be cut after all. Ness is way out of position for Lucas to be a valid candidate, though. Little Mac and Game and Watch might possibly be moved, but I find it highly unlikely Ness will get moved UP. Rather, Ness should've been up there instead of Little Mac if Lucas was still in.

As for IC's, they've been starters twice now. If they're not starters again, I think they're cut. Wolf is still a perfectly valid candidate, though.

EDIT: As for DLC, I do think its perfectly valid and completely possible, but I HIGHLY doubt DLC will "fill in" blank slots. If anything they'll add new slots or make them selectable through a different means.