Character Discussion Thread

[TitanTeaTime]

Somebody please tell me the companies listed there are all 2nd party... I really don't want my hope for Shulk to die

 

[Autumn ♫]

Outside of the copyrights, Snake NOT being there in the pic with the other guest characters is alone a strong hint towards him not being playable, in my eyes at least. Sigh.

Mother characters deconfirmed then, since Itoi/Ape isn't creditied.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Keep in mind, a character's respective company hadn't been credited until said character was properly revealed.

 

[Masonomace]

Beat classic mode in order to see the credits, Speed run with . Race to the confirminish

 

[Staarih]

Mother characters deconfirmed then, since Itoi/Ape isn't creditied.

I said outside of the copyrights, if that image is legit, the shot with Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man being "guest characters", and not having Snake alongside them, is a bit shady. I'd assume Snake would be shown pre-release and placed alongside them but nah, what do I know. I certainly hope Snake is in but day after day I feel like I'm losing hope on him haha.

 

[dezeray112]

I guess we may not see any Tekken references in Smash Bros according to Katsuhiro Harada:

"Maybe no RT@Mashudes I see Mr. Sakurai follows you. I know it's a bit of a stretch but are there any Tekken references in the new SmashBros?"

https://twitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/501401412886999040

 

[Burruni]

Veterans with information seen in the games/trailers/posts that pertain to them still being in.

and/or : The return of the Mr. Saturn and Franklin Badge proves that this series is still within the game. I do not believe we have seen an item that has been tied to the symbol of a franchise without a playable character. Other, miscellaneous items were given the Smash logos.

: Sakurai specifically stating about this duo in development, with the eventual release of as another puppet-like character and the Polar Bear in Smash Run.

: The Pac-Man trailer showing him off at the end (which would be a cruel joke if he did not return). While a point of conjecture, he is one of the simplest characters to make a model and animations for as his attacks all have... what, 4 frames at most?

: Wario symbol on Ashley and Waluigi's Assist Trophy reveal

,,, . : All LIKELY to return, for various reasons, but without anything seen in the games that can exclusively be tied to them.

& : While beloved by a number of people, the separation from Charizard brings doubt, especially for Squirtle with becoming a swift, fairly light water starter. Not saying their movesets or similar, but they share attributes.

: One of the most disputed characters for returning or not. The biggest thing against him is namely that it has been over a year of information being revealed with no word of him. After shown at E3 2013, only about 2 months in, at E3 2014.... there's ever-growing doubt.

 

[L9999]

And for Kirby to have 3

Kirby has already the 3 most important characters in the entire series, so there is no need for more becuase they represent Kirby very well, also Sakurai said that he didn't want to overrepresent Kirby by filling the roster with Kirby characters.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Mother characters deconfirmed then, since Itoi/Ape isn't creditied.

Ness is usually kept secret though, so it's no surprise Itoi and Ape aren't credited. Lucas on the other hand...

 

[Pizzanigs]

Kirby has already the 3 most important characters in the entire series, so there is no need for more becuase they represent Kirby very well, also Sakurai said that he didn't want to overrepresent Kirby by filling the roster with Kirby characters.

This. Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede are the core three characters of the franchise. There is no need for a 4th, and the fact that Bandana Dee was playable in Return to Dreamland isn't enough to make me change my mind.

 

[False Sense]

Somebody please tell me the companies listed there are all 2nd party... I really don't want my hope for Shulk to die

From my understanding, only companies that have content on the actual box art are credited in the box art. I guess the game and the box art are basically separate products.

 

[epicgordan]

Somebody please tell me the companies listed there are all 2nd party... I really don't want my hope for Shulk to die

Monolith Soft is First Party, so Shulk is safe. And even then, the worst-case scenario for Shulk appears to be Secret character status.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

,,, . : All LIKELY to return, for various reasons, but without anything seen in the games that can exclusively be tied to them.

Jigglypuff isn't going anywhere. She is part of the almighty Twelve Originals and I read somewhere she's Sakurai's favorite Pokémon. So Jiggs stays for sure, unfortunately.

Falco has been the target of my doubts for a few months now. Maybe his status as a Fox semi-clone will be his doom. And, even though they're different enough, he may leave his slot and become a Fox skin leaving room for some newcomer. This is all pure conjecture, though.

Ganondorf can't be cut. There's absolutely no way. One of Zelda's biggest... things... is the Triforce. Who are part of the Triforce? Link, Zelda and, yes, you guessed correctly, Ganondorf! Cutting Ganondorf would be the dumbest thing ever. Period. He needs to be revamped, though.

With R.O.B. it's hard to tell. He's (It's?) very unique and was a completely unexpected character, and he ended up being a very likeable one. I can't honestly tell if he'll make it back, though. I'd be glad if he did, but I wouldn't mind if he didn't.

And Wolf... I don't really see why people have doubts about Wolf. He deserves to be a Star Fox rep more than Falco, if you ask me. I think every franchise with a noticeable villain (or anti-hero) should have them as a rep. Also, he's far more different from Fox than Falco is. Also I've heard Sakurai has tried to put him in Smash for a long time, so why would he want to cut him now?

 

[Rockaphin]

Kirby has already the 3 most important characters in the entire series, so there is no need for more becuase they represent Kirby very well, also Sakurai said that he didn't want to overrepresent Kirby by filling the roster with Kirby characters.

But he fills Smash Run with a crap ton of Uprising content.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

But he fills Smash Run with a crap ton of Uprising content.

Uprising has probably the best array of enemy designs I've seen in a Nintendo game lately. Just saying.

 

[Rockaphin]

Uprising has probably the best array of enemy designs I've seen in a Nintendo game lately. Just saying.

Subjective opinion, but Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokémon, Kirby, and Metroid all have a wide variety of enemies to pick from. And they are growing franchises and have a much bigger impact on Nintendo rather than one game on the 3DS. Just saying.

But who knows, maybe we'll see more of those enemies.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

Subjective opinion, but Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokémon, Kirby, and Metroid all have a wide variety of enemies to pick from. And they are growing franchises and have a much bigger impact on Nintendo rather than one game on the 3DS. Just saying.

But who knows, maybe we'll see more of those enemies.

Well, of course it's subjective. The thing is, as long as the enemies are varied in design and attack patterns, I don't really care where they come from.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So as you have all probably discussed already, Snake is pretty much deconfirmed, due to Konami not being credited on the Japanese boxart.

I think he still has a chance as DLC.
His trailer could have him communicating with the colonel, informing him that he has infiltrated enemy lines, through new "DLC" technology.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

So as you have all probably discussed already, Snake is pretty much deconfirmed, due to Konami not being credited on the Japanese boxart.

I think he still has a chance as DLC.
His trailer could have him communicating with the colonel, informing him that he has infiltrated enemy lines, through new "DLC" technology.

The only companies credited in the boxart are those whose character appear in the boxart. We have a Rayman trophy and Ubisoft isn't credited either.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The only companies credited in the boxart are those whose character appear in the boxart. We have a Rayman trophy and Ubisoft isn't credited either.

All the involved 3rd parties will have to be credited in the game's credits though.

 

[Zathura]

I'm glad Snake (probably) isn't returning, He just doesn't fit in with the other characters to me, and I don't like his moveset enough for me to want him back for that either.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

I'm glad Snake (probably) isn't returning, He just doesn't fit in with the other characters to me, and I don't like his moveset enough for me to want him back for that either.

Well, he was pretty unique, and it's a shame to lose a unique moveset. That said, I have to agree that he doesn't really fit much with the other characters.

Personal opinion, of course.

 

[Deleted member]

While it's true that the company trademarks are for characters on the box, as I said in the Social thread, it makes me doubtful of Lucas and Snake.

-Previous games' boxes typically showed the entire starting roster. Unless both Lucas and Ness are unlockable this time around, I think the fact that Ape Inc./Shigisato Itoi are unlisted is damning for Lucas (not Ness, since he has the excuse of "he's probably unlockable again").

-Brawl showcased Snake and Sonic despite being unlockable because of their guest status. So Konami and Sega were listed. Only Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man are showcased, with Sega, Capcom, and Namco-Bandai listed. I sincerely doubt they'd keep Snake completely secret, so no Konami gives bad vibes.

 

[Twin Shot]

First post in the Reddit:

Also Snake hasn't even been revealed yet.
The box did not have pictures of Wario, G-Dorf or Ness either.

"
THIS IS NOT PROOF THAT SNAKE OR OTHER 3RD PARTY CHARACTERS ARE DE-CONFIRMED

The copyright labels, directly reference assets depicted on the artwork of this promotional material (in this case box art). There is no content on that box art containing assets owned by Hideo Kojima, Ubisoft, etc, thus those copyrights are omitted.

Here is an example, this is the box for Mario & Luigi Superstars Saga which features a Cameo by Geno. There is no copyright label for Square-Enix on this box.

Playstation All-Stars Battle Royal simply puts a generic all 3rd party characters are owned by their respective companies clause.

ALSO NOTICE THERE IS NO UBISOFT COPYRIGHT, as Rayman is a trophy within the game, but not featured on this box.

There is no definitive law that says all copyrighted parties be referenced on the label of the box."

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Welp, a bit of hype has squeezed its way out of my heart if Snake isn't back. That's rather upsetting.

There's still a chance, as things don't necessarily have to be on the cover art as opposed to the game itself. But the fact that Snake isn't there with the other 3 is just...sad. I can kinda understand why he wouldn't be there, but I still wonder why they wouldn't just put him there with the other 3.

There's always the DLC route...but I'm still sad.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone who brings up the "Rayman is a trophy, so Ubisoft copyright or GTFO" argument:

READ the copyrights.
It says characters. Rayman is a trophy, not a character.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My only excuse for Snake at this point is that he is simply not revealed yet. It's actually not even the boxart. It's a preorder thingy. Having Konami on that would result in Snake essentially being leaked, or really ANY character depending on who is on it. If Monolith Soft were on there, it would create the assumption that Shulk was in the game. I'm pretty sure it's just for characters on the slip anyway.

That said, the fact that they have a pic of all three 3rd parties and no Snake truly seems like a death sentence, so I'm forcing myself to expect the worst at this point.

 

[Starcutter]

Anyone who brings up the "Rayman is a trophy, so Ubisoft copyright or GTFO" argument:

READ the copyrights.
It says characters. Rayman is a trophy, not a character.

Rayman is a character, he's only referenced as a trophy.


it should still count.

 

[Deleted member]

Rayman is a character, he's only referenced as a trophy.


it should still count.

No, it shouldn't.
Or where's Camelot, NOISE, Treasure, TOSE, etc. for their Assist Trophies in Brawl (those are "characters" too, right?), Skip Ltd. for Chibi-Robo's trophy, etc.?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Rayman is a character, he's only referenced as a trophy.


it should still count.

If you look at the official site, the only credits given are at the very bottom. If they were going to be putting every single company they had to credit, it'd be a daaaaaaamn long list to put on that.

Right now, it's just a matter of who is on the slip. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ninja'd

 

[Starcutter]

No, it shouldn't.
Or where's Camelot, NOISE, Treasure, TOSE, etc. for their Assist Trophies in Brawl (those are "characters" too, right?), Skip Ltd. for Chibi-Robo's trophy, etc.?

hm, good point.

I just got here and had no idea what we were talking about, I just objected to something that didn't make sense to me.


so what exactly is this about?

 

[Deleted member]

hm, good point.

I just got here and had no idea what we were talking about, I just objected to something that didn't make sense to me.


so what exactly is this about?

http://i.imgur.com/iU571fE.jpg

This, and what it potentially means for characters such as Snake, Lucas, etc.

 

[Rockaphin]

My problem with Snake isn't that he doesn't match or fit in. I have absolutely no attachment towards him or his moveset. His tilts were OP as heck too. But that could always be fixed.

 

[Starcutter]

http://i.imgur.com/iU571fE.jpg

This, and what it potentially means for characters such as Snake, Lucas, etc.

Oh, I see. now that makes a lot more sense.

wait....

Maybe it will be updated by the time the game comes out? Do we know that this is the final version of the cover with 100% certainty?

 

[False Sense]

While it's true that the company trademarks are for characters on the box, as I said in the Social thread, it makes me doubtful of Lucas and Snake.

-Previous games' boxes typically showed the entire starting roster. Unless both Lucas and Ness are unlockable this time around, I think the fact that Ape Inc./Shigisato Itoi are unlisted is damning for Lucas (not Ness, since he has the excuse of "he's probably unlockable again").

Though, how many characters are even on the box art? Previous starter characters like Zelda, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and Wario are, as of now, nowhere to be seen on the box art. I doubt that they would have every starting character appear somewhere on the box art, so I wouldn't say this is terrible news for characters like Lucas.

 

[Weeman]

My problem with Snake isn't that he doesn't match or fit in. I have absolutely no attachment towards him or his moveset. His tilts were OP as heck too. But that could always be fixed.

But that's what made him good, not fitting in with the rest of the cast, using actual military guns, using german suplexes, etc... it was so serious that it ended up being kinda ridiculous, just like MGS itself.

 

[Starcutter]

I don't think this actually means anything for snake or anything cause Shigesato Itoi and Ape inc. are also not credited, even though we have seen mr. saturn already.

 

[Deleted member]

Though, how many characters are even on the box art? Previous starter characters like Zelda, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and Wario are, as of now, nowhere to be seen on the box art. I doubt that they would have every starting character appear somewhere on the box art, so I wouldn't say this is terrible news for characters like Lucas.

That may be true, but at the same time, we haven't seen the entire back. Which I hypothesize to be deliberate due to the fact there are characters yet to be revealed (such as Wario) higher up.

I don't think this actually means anything for snake or anything cause Shigesato Itoi and Ape inc. are also not credited, even though we have seen mr. saturn already.

Mr. Saturn is an item. And for all we know, doesn't show up on the box.
Copyright on the box applies to characters that appear on the box. No Ape Inc. or Shigesato Itoi means no Ness and Lucas on the box.
While it doesn't mean anything for Ness, who can still just be a hidden unlockable, it makes Lucas rather suspect unless he's either unlockable as well or the box doesn't actually have all the starting characters this time.

 

[False Sense]

That may be true, but at the same time, we haven't seen the entire back. Which I hypothesize to be deliberate due to the fact there are characters yet to be revealed (such as Wario) higher up.

Yes, there may be more characters on the back we haven't seen yet. But I find it a little hard to believe that they would (or could) really cram the entire starting roster in what little space they have left on the back. I think you're right about there being more characters on the back, possibly including one or two unrevealed ones, but based on what we currently know about the box, I don't think we can use it as solid evidence against the return of characters like Lucas.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't think this actually means anything for snake or anything cause Shigesato Itoi and Ape inc. are also not credited, even though we have seen mr. saturn already.

The copyright thing isn't what hurts Snake, it's the 3rd party lineup being shown with no sign of Snake. If Snake isn't going to be shown pre-release to promote the game, which this suggests, there's a very high chance he isn't in the game.

Though, how many characters are even on the box art? Previous starter characters like Zelda, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and Wario are, as of now, nowhere to be seen on the box art. I doubt that they would have every starting character appear somewhere on the box art, so I wouldn't say this is terrible news for characters like Lucas.

If we go with the Brawl pattern then the characters that are revealed earlier are going to be the ones that are used primarily for promotion. Of course there's Captain Falcon here so it probably doesn't work like that, but I still don't think they'd include characters that are announced close to release on the box art if only for the fact that they could leak early.