Character Discussion Thread

[Spinosaurus]

Plus Ganondorf was added when OOT was still the hot thing and he had a hell of a presence in that game.

Not really a good comparison.

 

[CJ Falcon]

He was added when he was still important to the series. Same with Sheik.
If K Rool was added when he was important, he would most definitely be returning with the rest if the cast, but he didn't, and as the series continues without him, it would be just plain strange to have him be the NEW representative if a game series that he hasn't appeared in any if the NEWER titles.

This **** is "NEWER" enough. It's on the Wii.

 

[Weeman]

Galacta Knight will be added as a Meta Knight clone, just you wait.

 

[False Sense]

I never found Ganondorf to be a good character to compare K. Rool to. We know that Ganondorf will be used again in future Zelda games. Ganon was in A Link Between Worlds, and an incarnation of Ganondorf was in Skyward Sword. The character is set in the Zelda universe, and he's not going anywhere for good. The thing about K. Rool is that we don't know his fate right now. He may have been the main antagonist of the Donkey Kong Country franchise back in the N64 era, but he very well may not be used again in future Donkey Kong games. I hope K. Rool will be in another game, but I know Ganondorf will be in another game.

I'm not sure if "we know this character will appear in the future" is a good argument since, well, we don't. We're pretty sure that he'll continue to appear in the future, but we don't actually know for certain. Similarly, we don't know whether or not K. Rool will appear in the future, but since he is basically the main antagonist of the Donkey Kong series, and since he still does have a few references to him in the latest games despite his absence, it seems likely that he will return some day.

 

[Weeman]

This **** is "NEWER" enough. It's on the Wii.

Oh yeah like that game is so important.

 

[ihskeyp]

Lord Fredrik was clear homage to K. Rool, but I wouldn't expect you to know that since you've never played a game with K. Rool in it. Dixie was absent from as many DKC games as K. Rool: 2. That small number: 2. Which likely has little or no effect: 2.

Don't know where you got that from, I've played almost all the DK games, so yes I've played plenty if games with K Rool in them. I said earlier that to the newer DK fans (which there are a LOT of) wouldn't even know who he is. I didn't say anything about me not playing games with him in them.

 

[CJ Falcon]

Galacta Knight will be added as a Meta Knight clone, just you wait.

Oh yeah like that game is so important.

It's still a recent game with K. Rool in it. That's a recent appearance for K. Rool which means something.

 

[Pizzanigs]

I never understand the recency argument. Do people really think Sakurai would toss K. Rool aside for the sole fact that he hasn't been in any recent games...?

"Ah, it seems many fans want King K. Rool to be playable in the new Super Smash Bros. game. We can incorporate the weapons he used in the Donkey Kong Country games into his moveset! Plus, that's one more villain in-- oh, wait, he hasn't appeared in a game since 2008? Never mind."

 

[Weeman]

It's still a recent game with K. Rool in it. That's a recent appearance for K. Rool which means something.

Yes but it's kinda hard to take it as serious merit for his inclusion, especially if you compare it to Ganondorf and Ocarina of time.

 

[ihskeyp]

This **** is "NEWER" enough. It's on the Wii.

If characters being included in Mario spinoff games mattered, we'd have Daisy, Waluigi, Bowser Jr, Toadette, and Birdo. We're talking about how he's irrelevant to the DK franchise anyway, which this game is clearly not a part of.

 

[CJ Falcon]

Don't know where you got that from, I've played almost all the DK games, so yes I've played plenty if games with K Rool in them. I said earlier that to the newer DK fans (which there are a LOT of) wouldn't even know who he is. I didn't say anything about me not playing games with him in them.

Ok so did any new fans know who the hell and were?
How is the MAIN VILLAIN of a series not part of the series or relevant to it?

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

Do I have to remind you guys Pit, Lucas and R.O.B. made it into Brawl?

 

[Morbi]

Oh yeah like that game is so important.

Mario spin-offs count as well, remember Waluigi? Remember that playable Waluigi that is apparently from WarioWare... remember?

Galacta Knight will be added as a Meta Knight clone, just you wait.

I am not sure that Sakurai is so biased as to add two clones from his own(ish) series; I mean, Dark Pit is enough, is he not?

 

[ihskeyp]

Ok so did any new fans know who the hell and were?

Nope, but guess what, they aren't a part of an ongoing series. Lucas is from a dead series, and ROB wasn't even from a series. They were never kicked out of a series. The series didn't continue without them. K Rool is from an ongoing series that no longer uses him. Comparing him to those 2 is ridiculous.

 

[False Sense]

I never understand the recency argument. Do people really think Sakurai would toss K. Rool aside for the sole fact that he hasn't been in any recent games...?

"Ah, it seems many fans want King K. Rool to be playable in the new Super Smash Bros. game. We can incorporate the weapons he used in the Donkey Kong Country games into his moveset! Plus, that's one more villain in-- oh, wait, he hasn't appeared in a game since 2008? Never mind."

"Now that that's settled, I should probably get back to work on all those Kremlings I'm putting in Smash Run..."

If K. Rool can't be in because he's too old and doesn't appeal to newer fans of the series, than neither would the Kremlings.

 

[CodeBlue_]

He was added when he was still important to the series. Same with Sheik.
If K Rool was added when he was important, he would most definitely be returning with the rest if the cast, but he didn't, and as the series continues without him, it would be just plain strange to have him be the NEW representative if a game series that he hasn't appeared in any if the NEWER titles.

Unfortunately, this would also apply for Dixie if Sakurai did not consider Tropical Freeze in the character decision making process.
Both characters would have their most recent game in Mario Super Sluggers (please correct me if I am wrong about Dixie in that regard) by the beginning of the development of Smash 4.

 

[CJ Falcon]

Nope, but guess what, they aren't a part of an ongoing series. Lucas is from a dead series, and ROB wasn't even from a series. K Rool is from an ongoing series that no longer uses him. Comparing him to those 2 is ridiculous.

I think you shoving every bit of supporting facts I have away and saying "it means nothing" is bull**** and frankly I've had enough of this. Your counter arguments are ridiculous.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I never understand the recency argument. Do people really think Sakurai would toss K. Rool aside for the sole fact that he hasn't been in any recent games...?

"Ah, it seems many fans want King K. Rool to be playable in the new Super Smash Bros. game. We can incorporate the weapons he used in the Donkey Kong Country games into his moveset! Plus, that's one more villain in-- oh, wait, he hasn't appeared in a game since 2008? Never mind."

I don't really care about him, but the reason I don't think he's likely is because Nintendo has never used the character.

All games he's been were outsourced to a different company, in which Nintendo simply supervised the games they developed. When DKC was finally developed by a Nintendo-owned company, he wasn't there. So meh.

Plus I always thought DK can easily stand on his own without K.Rool, whereas Bowser has a way bigger relation to Mario in comparison. He isn't needed, and he sure wasn't in DKCR/DKCTF. I'm glad Retro shifted the focus on DK completely.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

Considering there are Kremlings in Smash Run, I'm pretty sure Sakurai at least THOUGHT of including K. Rool as a playable character.

 

[CJ Falcon]

I don't really care about him, but the reason I don't think he's likely is because Nintendo has never used the character.

All games he's been were outsourced to a different company, in which Nintendo simply supervised the games they developed. When DKC was finally developed by a Nintendo-owned company, he wasn't there. So meh.

Plus I always thought DK can easily stand on his own without K.Rool, whereas Bowser has a way bigger relation to Mario in comparison. He isn't needed, and he sure wasn't in DKCR/DKCTF. I'm glad Retro shifted the focus on DK completely.

Diddy Kong was in Brawl and he hadn't been used by Nintendo.

 

[ihskeyp]

"Now that that's settled, I should probably get back to work on all those Kremlings I'm putting in Smash Run..."

If K. Rool can't be in because he's too old and doesn't appeal to newer fans of the series, than neither would the Kremlings.

Comparing smash run enemies with playable characters is really stupid. Being a playable character is a much bigger deal than some random stage enemy.

I think you shoving every bit of evidence I have away and saying "it means nothing" is bull**** and frankly I've had enough of this. Your counter arguments are ridiculous.

Actually, you're ignoring everything I'm saying because your blinded by your love for a no-longer-relevant character. The Lucas and ROB argument is STUPID. I already told you why, but you ignored, again, because of your blindness.

 

[Weeman]

Honestly the recency argument can both work in favor and against K. Rool, on one hand, yes Dixie appeared in Tropical Freeze and not him, on the other hand, Tropical Freeze might actually be too recent to even get content in this game.

Another thing to count, is what i call the "Robin vs Chrom effect", while Dixie would be an easier character to develop, K. Rool brings more to the table, so if a DK newcomer was being contemplated from the start, i think it would have been K. Rool, but if it wasn't and instead they just decided to throw one in during late development, then it would probably be Dixie. Or maybe both

 

[Morbi]

I never understand the recency argument. Do people really think Sakurai would toss K. Rool aside for the sole fact that he hasn't been in any recent games...?

"Ah, it seems many fans want King K. Rool to be playable in the new Super Smash Bros. game. We can incorporate the weapons he used in the Donkey Kong Country games into his moveset! Plus, that's one more villain in-- oh, wait, he hasn't appeared in a game since 2008? Never mind."

I believe that thought process is more on par with: Dixie Kong is more relevant to modern Donkey Kong, whereas King K. Rool is not. I doubt anyone believes that the specific date is important. However, you do make a good point, Sakurai; more likely than not, considers King K. Rool and Dixie Kong separately. I am sure that most of us make the erroneous presumption that it is King K. Rool vs. Dixie Kong rather than "what does King K. Rool offer and what does Dixie Kong offer?"

 

[Kenith]

The most comparable character to King K Rool I can think of is Mega Man.
A classic but forgotten character with a huge following.
They could have used the cooler, more recent Mega Man X, but they didn't.

So I imagine King K Rool will get the same response if he is revealed.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Do I have to remind you guys Pit, Lucas and R.O.B. made it into Brawl?

Pit, Lucas, and R.O.B. don't really help K. Rool's chances at all, and classic characters have a much different criteria.

I never understand the recency argument. Do people really think Sakurai would toss K. Rool aside for the sole fact that he hasn't been in any recent games...?

"Ah, it seems many fans want King K. Rool to be playable in the new Super Smash Bros. game. We can incorporate the weapons he used in the Donkey Kong Country games into his moveset! Plus, that's one more villain in-- oh, wait, he hasn't appeared in a game since 2008? Never mind."

Yes, call recency what you like, but I still think Dixie has the major upper hand as the only DKC newcomer in the roster over K. Rool and that recency is one of the main factors this time around.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Diddy Kong was in Brawl and he hadn't been used by Nintendo.

Mario Kart isn't a thing?

 

[jweb22]

I'm not sure if "we know this character will appear in the future" is a good argument since, well, we don't. We're pretty sure that he'll continue to appear in the future, but we don't actually know for certain. Similarly, we don't know whether or not K. Rool will appear in the future, but since he is basically the main antagonist of the Donkey Kong series, and since he still does have a few references to him in the latest games despite his absence, it seems likely that he will return some day.

But Ganondorf has already reappeared... HYRULE WARRIORS! No idea if K Rool will ever come back.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

It wouldn't surprise me to see both, but as Weeman just said, K. Rool and Dixie give us the exact same situation as Chrom and Robin.

 

[CJ Falcon]

Mario Kart isn't a thing?

I thought spinoffs meant nothing.

 

[False Sense]

Nope, but guess what, they aren't a part of an ongoing series. Lucas is from a dead series, and ROB wasn't even from a series. They were never kicked out of a series. The series didn't continue without them. K Rool is from an ongoing series that no longer uses him. Comparing him to those 2 is ridiculous.

Out of curiosity, can you prove that all of that matters in the character selection process?

Basically, we have this "relevancy/recency" argument that claims that a character will not be made playable if they aren't "relevant/recent" enough. UNLESS:

1.) They've already been on the roster before.
2.) They're being added for the purpose of being an old, classic character.
3.) They're from a dead series.

Etc.

Personally, I feel like this whole argument is an arbitrary assumption treated like fact that makes exceptions for every instance that it's contradicted. To me, it's hard to say that it holds that much weight.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I thought spinoffs meant nothing.

No idea what that has to do with me.

Regardless, I don't think the reason Diddy got in was because he appeared in a Mario Kart. I think it's a factor, because it showed that Nintendo acknowledges the character. That said, Diddy is a pretty big character in his own right, more than K.Rool. He's the exception, not the rule.

The question then is, can K.Rool be an exception? Sure. I'm not saying he's definitely not getting in, but the way I see it, I don't think he's likely. At all.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

Pit, Lucas, and R.O.B. don't really help K. Rool's chances at all, and classic characters have a much different criteria.

Lucas has only appeared in one game, in 2006. The only other game he has appeared on ever since is Brawl, two years later.

K. Rool's first appearance was on 1994, and has appeared on several games until 2008, in Mario Sluggers.

I'm pretty sure K. Rool is far more classic than Lucas, yet the blond kid made it in and the crocodile king didn't. Weird.

 

[Spinosaurus]

To be honest Lucas was a pretty questionable character inclusion and I'm still baffled he got in considering Mother 3 isn't exactly the most critically acclaimed game.

An inclusion that I was totally OK with though, and would be completely behind him coming back.

 

[CJ Falcon]

No idea what that has to do with me.

Regardless, I don't think the reason Diddy got in was because he appeared in a Mario Kart. I think it's a factor, because it showed that Nintendo acknowledges the character. That said, Diddy is a pretty big character in his own right, more than K.Rool. He's the exception, not the rule.

The question then is, can K.Rool be an exception? Sure. I'm not saying he's definitely not getting in, but the way I see it, I don't think he's likely. At all.

So then didn't they at least acknowledge K. Rool with Barrel Blast and Super Sluggers?

 

[Morbi]

Lucas has only appeared in one game, in 2006. The only other game he has appeared on ever since is Brawl, two years later.

K. Rool's first appearance was on 1994, and has appeared on several games until 2008, in Mario Sluggers.

I'm pretty sure K. Rool is far more classic than Lucas, yet the blond kid made it in and the crocodile king didn't. Weird.

Albeit, we must consider the other criteria. For instance, was Lucas not intended to replace Ness? I am not sure about that one to be utterly honest; however, I am certain that he was intended to be an "upgraded" Ness from a series with only one representative. Unless Diddy Kong is not on the roster in addition to King K. Rool being an "upgraded" variation of Donkey Kong, the two inclusions are not comparable... or at least I fail to see the correlation.

 

[Spinosaurus]

So then didn't they at least acknowledge K. Rool with Barrel Blast and Super Sluggers?

They didn't develop those games.

 

[ihskeyp]

Out of curiosity, can you prove that all of that matters in the character selection process?

Basically, we have this "relevancy/recency" argument that claims that a character will not be made playable if they aren't "relevant/recent" enough. UNLESS:

1.) They've already been on the roster before.
2.) They're being added for the purpose of being an old, classic character.
3.) They're from a dead series.

Etc.

Personally, I feel like this whole argument is an arbitrary assumption treated like fact that makes exceptions for every instance that it's contradicted. To me, it's hard to say that it holds that much weight.

I don't see previously important Fire Emblem characters joining the cast. Robin and Lucina are very relevant.
I don't see previously important Mario characters joining the cast. Rosalina is one of the newest Mario characters and is very relevant.
Some relevant wii characters were added, WFT, Miis.
Villager is relevant to his series. So is Palutena. Greninja was only in the most recent Pokemon games.
Please give me one example where Sakurai chose a character from an ongoing series (aka not a retro) who is no longer a part of that series. It has never happened. There is no reason for people to expect it to happen. Of course it could, by surprise, but there is nothing pointing towards it. Especially since this inclusion if smash has shown off almost all the newcomers being very fresh/relevant faces to their series.

 

[CJ Falcon]

They didn't develop those games.

But you know who did? THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DEVELOPING SMASH 4!!!! BAKA!!!!!!

 

[CodeBlue_]

With regards to Dixie and K Rool's chances, apparently the first boss from Donkey Kong Country Returns is shown as a trophy in Smash 4:

This, along with the Rocket Barrel Theme remix and the Tiki Buzz enemy in Smash Run, implies that Sakurai is focusing on Donkey Kong Country Returns as the newest game for the Donkey Kong series.

Take this as you will.

 

[Weeman]

To be honest Lucas was a pretty questionable character inclusion and I'm still baffled he got in considering Mother 3 isn't exactly the most critically acclaimed game.

An inclusion that I was totally OK with though, and would be completely behind him coming back.

Actually Lucas was being considered since Melee, since Mother 3 started development as a N64 title.