Character Discussion Thread

[Burruni]

Alrighty, so I heard from the mess that is the Super Smash Bros Miiverse, that Geno was claimed to have been shown in a section of CoroCoro that goes over Super Smash bros, two days ago. Anyone heard the same thing yet?

Dude, don't get my Geno hype up again.

It happened in Brawl.

I started it up in Sm4sh before giving in after Sakurai's call of 3rd Party characters needing "Star Power" on par of Megaman, Sonic, or Pac-Man.

I don't want to be hurt like this again. I won't believe a word until I see a video saying "Geno... gives it a whirl!"

 

[Espio264]

quote="DukeNapoleon, post: 17272950, member: 241220"]I want to take a minute to talk about who I want in Pokemon/what I think would make the most sense.
1- Pikachu
2- Charizard
3- Sceptile
4- Greninja
5- Lucario
6- Mewtwo[/quote]

But be honest though, A year ago, before we knew about most of the cast, before we knew about Greninja, would Sceptile have been so high on your list? Would he have been on there at all?

A year ago, the viable choices most of us speculated were:

Lucario returning
Pokemon Trainer returning (all three intact)
A possible second trainer with XY starters
Mewtwo returning at long last
Zoroark
Jigglypuff returning
and throw in Genesect for those few hopefuls.

There may have been a few people who supported Sceptile, but if you look at my first roster, I've got Scizor on it. They weren't seriously under the impression it would happen, they were just fans, like me and my Scizor love.

After Greninja everything changed and the TYPE TRIFECTA suddenly was a thing. Not a real thing based on fact from Sakurai, but a thing based on hopes and dreams from a few starry eyed Smashboarders. He makes a hell of a lot of sense, sure, but that doesn't make him definite.

 

[mark welford]

But be honest though, A year ago, before we knew about most of the cast, before we knew about Greninja, would Sceptile have been so high on your list? Would he have been on there at all?

A year ago, the viable choices most of us speculated were:

Lucario returning
Pokemon Trainer returning (all three intact)
A possible second trainer with XY starters
Mewtwo returning at long last
Zoroark
Jigglypuff returning
and throw in Genesect for those few hopefuls.

There may have been a few people who supported Sceptile, but if you look at my first roster, I've got Scizor on it. They weren't seriously under the impression it would happen, they were just fans, like me and my Scizor love.

After Greninja everything changed and the TYPE TRIFECTA suddenly was a thing. Not a real thing based on fact from Sakurai, but a thing based on hopes and dreams from a few starry eyed Smashboarders. He makes a hell of a lot of sense, sure, but that doesn't make him definite.

oh this is not mine its dukenapoleon I tried to quote but it went wrong for some reason

 

[Masonomace]

for some reason that raccoon reminds me of fox @ Morbi

Hmmm. . .I'd tell you we both need glasses so I went ahead & put mine on:

Well. . .there's mostly differences, but. . .I see the reminding glimpse too, it's a small glimpse though.

 

[mark welford]

Hmmm. . .I'd tell you we both need glasses so I went ahead & put mine on:

Well. . .there's mostly differences, but. . .I see some similarities.

LOL maybe it is because of their leader status that makes me associate them with each other

 

[pupNapoleon]

Excuse me for not thinking like a businessman. Not snark directed toward you Duke, snark directed toward society in general. I'm not saying that Sceptile doesn't merit inclusion, just that the ideas that Sakurai values a type trifecta, or that GameFreak is pushing a particular character, Sceptile spcifically, is nothing but speculation that one person ran with, probably first on these forums, and he being the likeliest inclusion along with Mewtwo and Jigglypuff was then set in stone.

We all seemed to think that a Blue haired FE swordsman Trio was an inevitability. Sakurai wanted said "Trifecta" and that the FE staff wanted Chrom to be their Awakening frontrunner. But we all know how that ended. This is now fact: What we thought, and what we have now.

The only Pokemon related facts we've been given are that they set a roster spot aside for an XY Pokemon, and Greninja was who they chose. Who GameFreak might suggest, or the idea that they wanted a starter, and therefore a third starter from Gen 3 to flesh out a trio are not facts, they're cool ideas that make a lot of sense.

The Chrom case is particularly different. Maybe I take offense to it, as to me, I never believed Chrom was a logical idea, and Sakurai clearly agreed with me on the entirety of my own merits in understanding. Chrom was a representative of the current face of what we already have, Sceptile is, yes Marketing, but also is completing an innate necessity of what Pokemon is. I push the marketing aspect as to why it is likely, but quite frankly, there are a handful of other reasons as to why it would be a great idea in terms of playstyle and merit.
We have in fact been given more information about Pokemon as well. Sakurai flat out stated how he choses Pokemon, which is a pretty darn big indication of who we may get. Among this he asked who was popular, citing anime appearances. This means he is in specific collaboration with Game Freak to find out what is happening and what is about to be happening. Ash has a Charizard, he is about to have a Greninja, and he has a Sceptile. I'd bet money Sceptile returns when Ash gets into the season correlation to the Hoenn remakes, too.

I am going to go quote my Sceptile 'too big' essay that everyone is a huge fan of

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

Geno? That seems random.

 

[queenrosetta]

other than the legendaries, starters and Pikachu what other pokemon are very popular I can name 1 Lucario. Lucario is a regular everyday pokemon that has its own movie
quote="DukeNapoleon, post: 17272950, member: 241220"]I want to take a minute to talk about who I want in Pokemon/what I think would make the most sense.
1- Pikachu
2- Charizard
3- Sceptile
4- Greninja
5- Lucario
6- Mewtwo
*7- Pokemon Trainer- (Utilizing Summon attacks of six basic Pokemon for summons, as well as Pokeball attacks instead of Punches and kicks, which trap opponents in different ways in the Pokeball)
*8- Pokemon Ranger- Utilizing a variety of different Eeveelutions, controlled through her stylus. I think this would cover the basis of Eevee's importance to Pokemon, allowing a very unique Pokemon character,
*9- Team Rocket- This would be A Grunt, with emphasis placed probably on Meowth, who would not fight like any other Pokemon character, and would fight like a trap-gone-wrong/gone right Looney Tune. Anime inspired, but derived from the games fully.
I think this is a way to properly cover all areas of Pokemon; all divisions of the game (including main spinoff games such as Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, Pinball, Snap), and supplementary characters. It adds in the effects of the battle mechanics, the items, the multiple battles, the strategic way in which Pokemon makes you fight, and just represents the series' beyond individual characters ever could. It is a lot, but this is why I have the starred characters, the ones who would be added if the game reached up to 65 characters, or if those spinoff games counted as subseries just as Mario games do.
BUT WHAT ABOUT JIGGLYPUFF?
There is a controversy over her. The debate is essentially that she is a staple with a heavily enjoyed moveset, and that her Intellectual Property (IP/ as a character) she is outdated.
To me, this is solved by giving her move set to another character. Sure, everyone is not happy. Some people believe that because she was in the original game, she should never be cut. I think this is a ...poor idea, because adopting to change is a necessity to life.

Spoiler

Yet, I can identify with the idea that her move set is amazing, and that as a simple to make character, she should stay.
I also identify with the fact that, no matter how you look at it, Pokemon is the most competitive franchise for additions. It has over 800 character options, always growing, with more than 20 games, and a fan base that is researched by economists as a phenomenon because it covers such an array of media.
We can say there are not slots, but there are not going to be thirty Pokemon characters. This is too many, and we all could understand this. Jigglypuff is, as many have said, a smash character, and it is just a little bit difficult that a smash character must occupy the seat of a character for the most competitive franchise.
SO, substitute her move set into another character. For me, I choose Boo. I love Boo, down to his name, and think he is choice one if Luigi ever does branch out enough. The move set transference is truly uncanny.
-Floatation as always
-Kicks with Tail instead of feet
-Charged pounce instead of Rollout
-Scare instead of Rest (he says, BOO)
-Intangible UP B.
Of course, Boo is just one idea for this. It could be another character. The point is, keep her move set, get rid of the outdated character. I think there is a possibility we will see this with Sheik in the future too, transference to Impa. Just, possibly.

Pretty sure eevee is more popular. Popular stores actually make her tshirts. And I hear more people talk about her and her eeveelutions. You don't see much of anything about lucario besides the one movie outside of the games

Edit. The messed up quotes messed up my message too!

 

[pupNapoleon]

And guys; we are back with this. One day I will edit it again.

Sceptile discussion, from all those in here angry that he actually has a greater probability, and a lot more going to him than simply completing the holy type trinity.

REASONS POKEMON DESERVES THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF REPRESENTATIVES...

Spoiler

Here is a list of other things Pokemon has going for it:
-Easy translation into smash fighters
-Huge marketing capabilities (to draw in more fans, as well as by Game Freak, seen to get Smash fans into Pokemon)
-Vast Empire (Manga, TV, Movies, Trading Cards, Figures, Apps, Clothing, Merchandise beyond compare)
-800+ extremely diverse characters
-20 Years of history
-Worldwide Popularity
-Many types of characters it could represent beyond the basic Pokemon (trainers, rangers, breeders, coordinators, etc)
-Much in the main games to represent (abilities, items, weather and battlefield, double/triple/horde batles, typing, gender, contests, sports competitions, happiness, personality, trading, evolution-all different ways- etc)
-Multitude of types of games to choose from (Main RPG, Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, Snap, Pinball, Trozei, Puzzle League, Coliseum, ... the list is endless)

Sales are not the only factor. Popularity, Size, History, Impact, Relevance, Recency, Diversity, Adaptability, Growth.
Pokemon is unlike ANY other video game franchise, because it is far more than a video game franchise- it is studied on global economic trends as a phenomenon which is still not fully understood on a consumer trend and has not been replicated to this day.

How many reps does it deserve? Well, a good number. It is certainly on a scale to be evaluated separately from all other franchises as it is in a category all its own. A Pokemon added will appeal to a huge audience, regardless of which it is- an audience likely bigger than another given character added. I would not be surprised if it got more than six representatives, not surprised in the slightest, and it would be more than warranted, it would be earned.

...BUT....WHAT ABOUT THAT ITALIAN PLUMBER?

Spoiler

I feel like this is a good reasoning as to why Pokémon could warrant more playable characters than Mario. Yes, Mario is more popular and its video games sells better, but Pokémon is a different kind of phenomenon. On top of video games Pokémon also has a successful Anime, TCG and Manga running, it definitely sells more merchandise than almost anything else, while Mario is bigger than it in the video game world I feel as a whole Pokémon probably makes more money in the end. Now I don't think it's all about money of course, but it means Pokémon has a different kind of impact, it's practically everywhere.

On the Smash front there are also still a limited number of Mario characters that are exciting to include in this game, Game Freak always makes sure to front multiple Pokémon in merchandising at once and I dare say almost every Pokémon can translate well into a Smash fighter, excluding itsy bitsy ones like Weedle and Corphish, so no matter who the spotlight is shining on they can always make that into a Smash fighter. Heck, Pichu got in, I think that says a ton.

I pretty much just restated what you said, but it's a great post.

Mario is limited, as you stated. Not to mention, all of its characters have broken off to become separate things.
To be more clear, though, the Marioverse will always have more representatives, and I think that is why it is okay.
Mario, Yoshi, DK, Wario- they are all part of the Marioverse. I think arguing subfranchise or not gets tedious, because there are a plethora of different series' within Marios name, all given the mainstay IPs because Nintendo is accustomed to doing this for Marketing reasons.
Luigi's Mansion and Captain Toad should warrant those characters as separate characters to me, yet they will unlikely be seen as such. They are all in Mario's family, as is DK, as is Wario, as is Waluigi who is now it seems a Warioware character since it makes sense aethetically to Sakurai (and is prepping us for his inclusion in the next Smash game as a Wario character).

In short- Pokemon will not be overslotted to Mario, because Mario is so big it gets to be more than one franchise.

PRECEDENT SAYS WE WILL GET ANOTHER NEW POKEMON!

Spoiler

I have already posted in length about just how prominent Pokemon is and why it is absurd to think it should not get high levels of representation, second to nothing but Mario, and only Mario when you consider the entire Mario universe.

I believe I will begin with Pokemon's character representation, and the general likelihood that, whether you are inclined to believe it or not, precedence dictates we are going to have at least one additional Pokemon Newcomer.
By fact alone, we had two newcomers in SSB64, two more in SSBM, and then FOUR MORE in SSBB. I will not go as far as to say the representation going from 2, 4, 6, means we are likely to get 8, but the fact that we have never gotten just a single new Pokemon representative for this series would be strange after getting four in the previous game, with two being likely cuts. The fact that we have had two generations leads me to believe we will have at least two newcomers, and the size of this franchise as a whole indicates it is worthy of a vast amount of representation, if for no other reason than to simply appease Game Freak and the Millions of fans it alone brings Smash.

It could be argued the newcomer would come from Gen 5, but I would point out that it was in Brawl that we finally got the main character from the first Generation, Pokemon Trainer, who added in three first generation Pokemon.

Now, if you want to debate who that second newcomer would be, absolutely, that is the fun! I'm here to point out some of what Sceptile has going for him as the front runner of those other plausible options.

WHAT DOES SCEPTILE HAVE GOING FOR HIM?

Spoiler

Many people seem to keep coming to the conclusion that he only completes the grass-fire-water type trinity... and then also belittling the vast role said trinity plays in Pokemon and the Pokemon games.
* To quickly back track, As for this ...this type trinity is something that Sakurai has brought into play in the first place. It is impossible to assert that Pokemon Trainer was a one shot idea and fans are the only ones who think it is important.
**The heavily advertised mechanics of rock-paper-scissor have been used to introduce players to the mechanics of battling in pokemon since generation one, and in short represent the entire battle mechanics of the universe to which the games are from. This triangle, also used in marketing, always emphasizes three types and three starters. When a new generation is out, one of the ways Game Freak displays the new generation is by showcasing who the new starters will be; without fail it is one of the first things we learn. The types do not only represent the balance in fighting,but also the advertising of the franchise itself.

Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company. What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front.

For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

Sceptile is the Pokemon Ash has, FYI. He also has Charizard and Froakie (who will evolve into Greninja). Sceptile has been given a lot of character in the show, with hardships over learning moves, isolating, and attraction to other pokemon.

Grovyle, of the Sceptile evolution line, was also a prominently featured in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, one of the main spinoffs of Pokemon's handheld games which is not a part of the RPG.

But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.

We have recently seen Sakurai talk about the first character who can heal while hurting someone else, Robin, using the move Nosferatu, implying this is a technique someone else may use.
As a grass type Pokemon, and taking over a common trope in RPG's, Sceptile could easily take on the role of a healer, and heal himself while damaging others.

Given that he is a type of Dinosaur/Lizard, it would be evident that his moveset involve wall climbing, or otherwise unique ways of holding onto ledges. He could be the first character in Sm4sh to use grass based attacks, which are common in RPGs but have yet to make much appearance in Smash, or he could be a grappling character. He has plenty of signature moves, most iconic- his leaf blades.
Honestly, for originality, he is lacking nothing, and is one of the easiest characters to have twelve different original move sets which he easily inspires, with an easy array of Seeds, Powders, Vines, Leafs, and Solar attacks which make him too variant to mess with. (We have already seen Robin with Nosferatu (a healing move), and both Wii Fit Trainer and Palutena with stat altering moves. A few Pokeball Pokemon, Xerneas and Victini, have been shown to alter stats as well. )

In short, adding Sceptile does not simply add one Pokemon, it allows the entire franchise to be represented in a multitude of other ways- it allows each Pokemon to represent more than just itself, and how popular each given one may be, but allows the whole to stand for something.
Sakurai has expressed devout interest in trying to remain loyal to representing the feel of characters correctly, as well as the feel of a franchise- to do this with Pokemon, he cannot simply have a few monsters of the greater whole that just exist as a few selected of over 700 +.
Adding Sceptile in does not just complete the type trinity, it pays tribute to multiple generations, acknowledges the advertising of the franchise, it gives homage to other games in the series' besides the main RPG, and it rounds out the representation of the Pokemon contestants to actually stand for something other than individual slots in themselves.

Grass Raptor vs Fire Chicken:

Spoiler

I concede there was a time Blaziken was more popular. He still may be. Likely is in fact. Hold that thought...

I know we have heard Blaziken does not need to be a clone of Captain Falcon. Of course he doesn't; no one need be a clone of anyone, any character can be creative in concept.

But will they, and is that what we should expect based on what we have been told? It is not a matter of just taking Blaziken, it is a matter of Sceptile Vs Blaziken.

Here we have Sakurai discuss popularity versus actual character mechanics in the case of Chrom:

"What? Not Chrom!?” I suspect a lot of you will ask. Of course, Chrom is quite popular...
At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.
Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!

So from this, we can gather:

At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

You can argue they are different all you want; we can look at this as 'fire kicker' instead of sword wielder, and down to their build, it is just very similar. It could be done, but what is the point?

Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place.

This tells us 'If another viable option brings more characteristics to mind that are more prominent, then I will look at that choice.' It is impossible to think Sakurai would not look at Sceptile. Let me not begin here...
Sceptile possesses to many ideas as to how he could be unique. Wall Clinging, Healing abilities, grappling, plant traps- there is a huge range of screaming potential. If compared next to each other, Sceptile screams potential and Blaziken screams "Can you do anything with me, Sakurai... please?"

Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!

Here we get to the point of it all; Sceptile does more for Pokemon than just adding another character. He adds the trinity, the marketing, the point of battling in the Pokemon games, and introduces that concept into smash bros. Adding Sceptile adds a conceptual level of Pokemon to Smash Bros, beyond just adding a character. It CAPTURES THE ESSENCE OF POKEMON, and it is perfect.

Speculation:

Spoiler

As it stands right now, Greninja was chosen because he... looked cool and could potentially be popular? I find that highly suspect to any analysis someone in the crowd could put out. If Sakurai were not limiting himself to starting roster Pokemon, why would he have chosen Greninja? He has gone on record to state that he liked the Ninja aspect, and we already have many of those characteristics in Sheik- if he wanted just a plain cool looking Pokemon that was popular with the fans, he had a plethora of other options he could have chosen from, unless he was going for something a bit deeper than just representing Greninja alone, and being nudged heavily to present him by Game Freak, of course. If Greninja can be added solely on the basis that he 'looks cool and might be popular,' this suggests already Sceptile has much more to offer. In fact, I would say Greninja may likely have been the one added to complete the type trio, and Sceptile just happens to be the one who is staying hidden.

Additionally, let us not kid ourselves to believe the Gen 3 remakes were not already nearly complete a long time ago. I'd personally be shocked if Nintendo representatives were not fighting to get information to Sakurai in hopes to sway him to add their characters into Smash bros (as we have seen, third parties do it, so why would Nintendo first parties not give him as much info as possible, it is the best advertising they could get). Yet I digress! If you want proof as to how clear it was the remakes have been planned for a long time, please ask and I will cite more information from the Sceptile thread. In short, just google it, they've been planned for a long time. Even if Sakurai is not given information on Nintendo information as a whole, he certainly can find out anything he wants for Pokemon's GAMING plan.

I would argue Blaziken having his Mega Evolution last year just sets up for the fact that Sceptile and Marshy are now the poster boys of these remakes with there megas, and that Blaziken's mega further dictates how aware they were of these remakes long ago.

 

[The Black mage]

Annnnnndddd look what I have started by posting that... Wonderful

 

[Masonomace]

Ohhh mann. . .Mega Sceptile appeared once again. Everyone hide your Pikachu's.

 

[Espio264]

I feel as though you are missing the point. Lucina is not relevant. Sakurai's words are relevant. He essentially confirms that characters such as Dark Pit are going to be in their own slot as opposed to an alternate costume. I do enjoy my words, but not as much as I enjoy Sakurai-senpai's words.

The Silver Bow would probably give most of his normals different properties or attributes and if he were a clone, he would animate the Silver Bow as opposed to Palutena's Bow, that much is certain. I do agree that certain aspects are disputable, such as his beautiful and immaculate Dark Pit Staff; however, he is going to have differences in the event that he is a clone. No clone in Smash is objectively a clone. There are subtle differences. Pandora's power of flight would probably entail a different recovery move and whatnot.

Dr. Mario should not be a costume. If we examine precedent, we would see that I am indeed correct.

Perhaps not, but I believe that I have supported my opinion better, and therefore, I feel as though it is the more logical opinion to adhere to. Your opinion is arbitrary, nothing indicates that Sakurai feels the same way.

Fine. I don't wanna be the loudest personality in the room. Have your Dark Pit. Me, Falco, Ike and Mewtwo will be over in the corner. But when they give us each the detonators to "blow up the other boat" will you be the one to justify yourself because we "know what we did, we made our choices?" Or will you be the one to "do what you shoulda did ten minutes ago?"

Either way, not the heroes that we need, but the heroes that we deserve are coming.

I'm walking away from this argument because "I don't want to kill you. You're just too much fun."

 

[Morbi]

Fine. I don't wanna be the loudest personality in the room. Have your Dark Pit. Me, Falco, Ike and Mewtwo will be over in the corner. But when they give us each the detonators to "blow up the other boat" will you be the one to justify yourself because we "know what we did, we made our choices?" Or will you be the one to "do what you shoulda did ten minutes ago?"

Either way, not the heroes that we need, but the heroes that we deserve are coming.

I'm walking away from this argument because "I don't want to kill you. You're just too much fun."

I thought we were discussing Dark Pit, not the Dark Knight.

 

[Masonomace]

Pretty sure eevee is more popular. Popular stores actually make her tshirts. And I hear more people talk about her and her eeveelutions. You don't see much of anything about lucario besides the one movie outside of the games

Edit. The messed up quotes messed up my message too!

You may hear more about Eevee from poeple's conversations you eavesdropper, but you can't deny the awesomeness that Lucario T-shirts can compare to the Eevee-lution shirts:

Also sup, your avatar was momentary eye candy.

 

[Scamper52596]

I thought we were discussing Dark Pit, not the Dark Knight.

The whole Boards are about to be discussing Meta Knight here in a moment...

 

[Masonomace]

The whole Boards are about to be discussing Meta Knight here in a moment...

But there's soooooooooooooo much discussion about Dark Pit & Pokemon.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

I find it hilarious that a Mii dressed as a Knight with Bat-wings was just shown moments after that glorious Batman-infused post.

 

[queenrosetta]

You may hear more about Eevee from poeple's conversations you eavesdropper, but you can't deny the awesomeness that Lucario T-shirts can compare to the Eevee-lution shirts:

Also sup, your avatar was momentary eye candy.

(Eavesdropper and proud lol)
Lol I'm not saying he doesn't have cool shirts I'm just saying in actual retailers eevees gets shirts.

And about my avatar. Thanks I know I'm gorgeous hahaha

 

[pupNapoleon]

Wow... Meta Knight mask.

So... he is likely in.

Just like he was before.

Back to Pokemon.

Moderator Edit: Please use a permanent link when posting the pic of the day.

 

[Masonomace]

(Eavesdropper and proud lol)
Lol I'm not saying he doesn't have cool shirts I'm just saying in actual retailers eevees gets shirts.

And about my avatar. Thanks I know I'm gorgeous hahaha

): I guess I have to agree with that, I don't see much Lucario or Eevee, but it's moreless a matter of where your looking when purchasing / shopping online. Because sometimes retailers are lamefests.
Stay gorgeous then hotness.

Also I'm curious about where yesterday's PotD is. . .Maybe Monday really will have something interesting. , ,!!!

 

[Burruni]

Well, you know how people thought Meta Knight would be cut because he was too OP in Brawl? ...despite the case not being true for Pikachu or Fox?

MetaKnight confirmed.

Edit:'d!

 

[CodeBlue_]

A more realistic Pokémon popularity chart imo:

Pikachu
Charizard
Lucario/Mewtwo
Eevee+Eeveelutions
Greninja
Blaziken/Sceptile/Infernape (Infernape may be competitive bias)
Scizor/Arcanine
Salamence/Dragonite/Metagross
Jigglypuff
Gengar/Typhlosion/Blastoise/Electivire
Zoroark/Hawlucha

Gonna abstain from the baby Pokémon/Pika clones in this chart. Also correct me if I misspelled some Pokémon.

Any thoughts guys?

EDIT: Where's my Meta Knight Sakurai </3

 

[Masonomace]

Well, you know how people thought Meta Knight would be cut because he was too OP in Brawl? ...despite the case not being true for Pikachu or Fox?

MetaKnight confirmed.

Edit:'d!

You 'd my I was gonna lay you down. Bummer May Horus. . .

 

[pupNapoleon]

A more realistic Pokémon popularity chart imo:

Pikachu
Charizard
Lucario/Mewtwo
Eevee+Eeveelutions
Greninja
Blaziken/Sceptile/Infernape (Infernape may be competitive bias)
Scizor/Arcanine
Salamence/Dragonite/Metagross
Jigglypuff
Gengar/Typhlosion/Blastoise/Electivire
Zoroark/Hawlucha

Gonna abstain from the baby Pokémon/Pika clones in this chart. Also correct me if I misspelled some Pokémon.

Any thoughts guys?

EDIT: Where's my Meta Knight Sakurai </3

Legendaries are a big deal.
In general, competitive vs casual is a big difference here, as well.

 

[Masonomace]

A more realistic Pokémon popularity chart imo:

Pikachu
Charizard
Lucario/Mewtwo
Eevee+Eeveelutions
Greninja
Blaziken/Sceptile/Infernape (Infernape may be competitive bias)
Scizor/Arcanine
Salamence/Dragonite/Metagross
Jigglypuff
Gengar/Typhlosion/Blastoise/Electivire
Zoroark/Hawlucha

Gonna abstain from the baby Pokémon/Pika clones in this chart. Also correct me if I misspelled some Pokémon.

Any thoughts guys?

EDIT: Where's my Meta Knight Sakurai </3

Shouldn't Charizard be number 1? He IS #1. . .
Also slashes to have tie placers are banned. I'm borrowing Captain Falcon's quote for a second.

There's only 2 kinds of racers, me & the losers!

Only Charizard should be on the list no one else. They all retired.

Seriously though Charizard #1, but it gets complicated after that involving aspects & mechanics to Pokemon. Eevee-lutions should be high because of the emphasis on their design & purpose, but they don't get that high rate of popularity when compared to just fan-favorites being Legendaries or Starters. Pseudo-legendaries get a reputable status too, I'd be adding just pokemon elements from the games rather than pokemon alone. Still though I'm not deisagreeing much with it. It's a decent list that's understandable.

Edit: I'm foolish & overthinking perhaps. You may ignore my post if you wish to~

 

[Spinosaurus]

Pikachu is easy number 1.

 

[Masonomace]

Just watched Mega Sceptile & Shiny MegaMetagross. They probably skyrocketed popularity just now with that distribution of the Shiny Beldum for November 21 via internet.

There better be a mega ring / bangle that's a droppable item in SSB5, Metagross summon never felt so intimidating, until 5+ years from now.

Lastly pokemon not accounting the games, Pikachu is def #1. In the games + pokemon fan-favorites, Charizard is #1. After that it's Mewtwo & or Pikachu?

 

[Burruni]

So, just to recap.

>25 veterans and 11 (13 due to Mii fighters) newcomers known in the roster for 38 characters in 36 slots.
>5 Veterans with soft confirmations (Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, Meta Knight).
So, we essentially know 42 in 40.
Jigglypuff, Falco, Ganondorf, and basically R.O.B. are, in my opinion, guarrenteed due to how original their moves are, the sheer fan love, being crucial for their franchise, or being... Sakurai's main, among other reasons.
I feel like we can't count Lucas or Wolf out, either, but they are just less likely.
That would take us up to 47 character slots, 49 characters.
Personally, I see 4 more newcomers in a 4x13 including Random. But.. believe what you want.

Nobody start a flame war over a veteran on this list, though.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Wario got a soft confirmation too. Ashley AT and for some reason Waluigi as well, even if it doesn't make sense.

And there's that eShop thing and SDCC.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Just watched Mega Sceptile & Shiny MegaMetagross. They probably skyrocketed popularity just now with that distribution of the Shiny Beldum for November 21 via internet.

There better be a mega ring / bangle that's a droppable item in SSB5, Metagross summon never felt so intimidating, until 5+ years from now.

Lastly pokemon not accounting the games, Pikachu is def #1. In the games + pokemon fan-favorites, Charizard is #1. After that it's Mewtwo & or Pikachu?

...his Mega form is that he turns 90 degrees?

WTF! Some of these mega forms are so terribly lacking in transformative qualities.

 

[Masonomace]

So, just to recap.

>25 veterans and 11 (13 due to Mii fighters) newcomers known in the roster for 38 characters in 36 slots.
>4 Veterans with soft confirmations (Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Meta Knight).
So, we essentially know 42 in 40.
Jigglypuff, Falco, Ganondorf, Wario, and basically R.O.B. are, in my opinion, guarrenteed due to how original their moves are, the sheer fan love, being crucial for their franchise, or being... Sakurai's main, among other reasons.
I feel like we can't count Lucas or Wolf out, either, but they are just less likely.
That would take us up to 47 character slots, 49 characters.
Personally, I see 4 more newcomers in a 4x13 including Random. But.. believe what you want.

Nobody start a flame war over a veteran on this list, though.

Check
What proc'd Ice Climbers to have a soft confirmation, eggsactly?
That's about it. Not going to start a flame war or anything.
Edit: What Spinosaurus said, about Wario getting hinted being a soft confirmation
Double Edit:

...his Mega form is that he turns 90 degrees?

WTF! Some of these mega forms are so terribly lacking in transformative qualities.

. . .yuuup. Pretty much.
<Still waiting on MegaTropius.

 

[Burruni]

Wario got a soft confirmation too. Ashley AT and for some reason Waluigi as well, even if it doesn't make sense.

And there's that eShop thing and SDCC.

.....Forgot about that. TO EDITING.

 

[Spinosaurus]

. . .yuuup. Pretty much.
<Still waiting on MegaTropius.

That and Megalodon Sharpedo.

Though Sharpedo and Camerupt are probably getting megas anyhow, and thank god for that.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

But be honest though, A year ago, before we knew about most of the cast, before we knew about Greninja, would Sceptile have been so high on your list? Would he have been on there at all?

A year ago, the viable choices most of us speculated were:

Lucario returning
Pokemon Trainer returning (all three intact)
A possible second trainer with XY starters
Mewtwo returning at long last
Zoroark
Jigglypuff returning
and throw in Genesect for those few hopefuls.

There may have been a few people who supported Sceptile, but if you look at my first roster, I've got Scizor on it. They weren't seriously under the impression it would happen, they were just fans, like me and my Scizor love.

After Greninja everything changed and the TYPE TRIFECTA suddenly was a thing. Not a real thing based on fact from Sakurai, but a thing based on hopes and dreams from a few starry eyed Smashboarders. He makes a hell of a lot of sense, sure, but that doesn't make him definite.

I probably would've ended up with this as my prediction:

- Pikachu, Jiggs, Mewtwo, and Lucario all return
- Pokemon Trainer with tweaked roster (Charizard, Grovyle, and Totodile)
- Possibly Hawlucha instead due to looking badass during the 6th gen. I wanted Hawlucha in so bad until Greninja was revealed

I'm happy with the list so far anyway

 

[Burruni]

Check
What proc'd Ice Climbers to have a soft confirmation, eggsactly?
That's about it. Not going to start a flame war or anything.
Edit: What Spinosaurus said, about Wario getting hinted being a soft confirmation
Double Edit:

. . .yuuup. Pretty much.
<Still waiting on MegaTropius.

1) The fact that Rosalina & Luma were revealed to work on 3DS after Icies got name dropped as a hump in the development.
2)

This hunky piece of fur. And I don't mean DK.

Edit: 3) Kirby's shown custom option for Inhale being an Icy Breath just like the Icies, and the only other reason for "frozen" models are: Suicune, Freezies, and PK Freeze.

 

[Starcutter]

So anyways, if we were to get Pokemon from promotion and not recency....

We'd probably get Eevee and Meowth over Greninja and Lucario, with lucario being a maybe since he's pretty promoted since his creation.

 

[Masonomace]

That and Megalodon Sharpedo.

Though Sharpedo and Camerupt are probably getting megas anyhow, and thank god for that.

Yes please!
A dream for Sharpedo like it was for Bagon to be Salemence. He's a dragon airplane

I feel. . .no it couldn't be. . .could it?. . .
Sharpedo's Mega Evolution is him becoming a Submarine with torpedo like-eyes? It literally evolves his design of being a Shark torpedo, & taking the most referenced origin making him a submarine that shoots torpedos.

I. . do want that? No. Ugh Idk it'd have to do him justice.

I still want Megalodon. But nerf it to a Whale Shark

Mega Camerupt. . now that is something I'll leave to the future to show me.

1) The fact that Rosalina & Luma were revealed to work on 3DS after Icies got name dropped as a hump in the development.
2)

This hunky piece of fur. And I don't mean DK.

Oooooooh right I forgot thanks. I've been reminded why now. Thanks again. Was eggselent

So anyways, if we were to get Pokemon from promotion and not recency....

We'd probably get Eevee and Meowth over Greninja and Lucario, with lucario being a maybe since he's pretty promoted since his creation.

Excluding their pokeballs cus they don't eggsist, I'd agree with Meowth, not so much Eevee, why would my subjective sentence say that?

 

[epicgordan]

So, just to recap.

>25 veterans and 11 (13 due to Mii fighters) newcomers known in the roster for 38 characters in 36 slots.
>5 Veterans with soft confirmations (Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, Meta Knight).
So, we essentially know 42 in 40.
Jigglypuff, Falco, Ganondorf, and basically R.O.B. are, in my opinion, guarrenteed due to how original their moves are, the sheer fan love, being crucial for their franchise, or being... Sakurai's main, among other reasons.
I feel like we can't count Lucas or Wolf out, either, but they are just less likely.
That would take us up to 47 character slots, 49 characters.
Personally, I see 4 more newcomers in a 4x13 including Random. But.. believe what you want.

Nobody start a flame war over a veteran on this list, though.

It's actually more like:

>25 veterans and 11 (13 if you count Mii Fighters separately) for 38 characters in 36 slots.
>7 Veterans with soft confirmations (Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, Meta Knight, Falco, Wolf)
- Ness game from the Earthbound items; Ice Climbers from a 2012 interview; Game & Watch in the Pac-Man trailer; Meta Knight from tonight's potd; Wario from the eShop leak; and Falco and Wolf from the SDCC near-slip (anybody who could read lips could tell that he almost leaked Falco and Wolf, but the silent mouthed words were clearly "Falco or Wolf?"
>At least 1 newcomer reserved for a trailer.

In total, we know of 45 playable characters in 43 slots; and we are guaranteed at least 46 playable characters in 44 slots.

Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, and ROB are currently lacking in solid evidence, but they appear to be a deadlock. So assuming that these three return as well, we are looking at bare minimum, a roster size of 49 playable characters in 47 slots--add one more to the equation as well if Lucas is to return. And Mewtwo is the other wild horse in this as well for 51 characters with 49 slots!

But what about newcomers? So far, all of these characters have a stake at being playable: Ridley, Shulk, Chorus Kids, Dark Pit, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, 8-Bit Mario, Duck Hunt Dog, Mach Rider, Krystal, Bandana Dee, N, and any of the remaining leftover Assist Trophies from Brawl (within reason, of course). At bare minimum, I am expecting at least five of these characters will be playable.

 

[Kenith]

What's the general consensus on the amount of characters we will see in this game?
At the point, I imagine the average estimate is 50 characters.

Incidentally, my newest prediction roster ended up being 49 individual characters (not counting Miis)
So it's actually sub-50.

 

[Masonomace]

Based on past Smash Brothers number of slots growing, I'm still saying 50+. 51 for random as my least number guess. I become doubtful of any number over 54, unless it's 55 for that random slot, going 9 x 6 dimensions, or 10 x 5 making it 54 total characteres making random 55.

I'm still content with 51 + DLC in future.