Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

If we're including clones as stand-ins for unique characters, Ghirahim could still be a semi-clone of Sheik or Zelda.

 

[The Light Music Club]

My new roster:

Goodbye, Takamaru.

I like this roster, except for Dixie, I'd rather have a retro to rep a new series.

 

[N3ON]

I like this roster, except for Dixie, I'd rather have a retro to rep a new series.

Yet Dixie probably has the best chance of any of those unconfirmed newcomers on that roster tbh.

 

[Burruni]

http://ssb4dojo.com/post/93123821076/rumor-mill-qa-leaker

Figured I'd drop this here if you want a real laugher....

>Ridley
>Dixie as a Diddy Alt
>"Replacing" Lucas for Jeff
>Four Mother stages
>Random 6th Zelda Character
>Retro NEWCOMER Character overhaul
>No Icies mention
>No RH character
>Meh Shulk moveset

Highly Questionable.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Yet Dixie probably has the best chance of any of those unconfirmed newcomers on that roster tbh.

You think? I think King K Rool has the best chance. I don't think we'll get 3 monkeys. Especially since Sakurai thought Chrom wouldn't work with Ike and Marth.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

You think? I think King K Rool has the best chance. I don't think we'll get 3 monkey's. Especially since Sakurai thought Chrom wouldn't work with Ike and Marth.

Alternately, Dixie could appear in K. Rool's trailer, a la Lucina.

 

[Pizzanigs]

Yay, new roster time. It was supposed to have Takamaru on it but we know how that turned out...
View attachment 19712
I know I said I'll stick with my old one but I did some thinking and rearranging and I got this.
55 characters seems fair.

Needs less Dark Pit IMO. Other than that, perfect.

 

[Cobalsh]

Yet Dixie probably has the best chance of any of those unconfirmed newcomers on that roster tbh.

Heh. Almost like you're serious.


Wait...


Are you?

 

[GunGunW]

You think? I think King K Rool has the best chance. I don't think we'll get 3 monkey's. Especially since Sakurai thought Chrom wouldn't work with Ike and Marth.

That's... a really good point that I never thought of.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Alternately, Dixie could appear in K. Rool's trailer, a la Lucina.

At this point that's the only way I see her getting in, but since Lucina is a special case, I think we only get a clone if Sakurai wants to move a move set, specifically Gannondorf's, to a F-Zero character.

 

[N3ON]

You think? I think King K Rool has the best chance. I don't think we'll get 3 monkey's. Especially since Sakurai thought Chrom wouldn't work with Ike and Marth.

As a character who has had a notable appearance as of late (which is the angle Sakurai seems to be approaching all the Nintendo newcomers from) and a prime candidate for another Lucina-esque clone (maybe even one a bit more differentiated - as she does have material which can set her apart from Diddy) with DK in a position where another newcomer makes a lot of sense, I'd say her chances were nothing to scoff at. No one is saying she'd have to be original, but she could be.

And K. Rool might have popularity that surpasses Dixie, but it's not like Dixie is an unpopular character, and it's not like popularity has turned out to be the be-all-and-end-all this time around.

Also, Sakurai was planning to give us three monkeys last time, wasn't he?

 

[Kenith]

My new roster:

Goodbye, Takamaru.

Me gusta. Though it's somewhat disappointing that most of the remaining newcomers are clones...
Still, Medusa over Dark Pit is a +.

http://ssb4dojo.com/post/93123821076/rumor-mill-qa-leaker

Figured I'd drop this here if you want a real laugher....

No King K Rool and Dixie as an alt?
Vague newcomer descriptions that are explicitly stated to not be popular?
Lucas gone and replaced by another Earthbound character?
Robin has no custom moves?

I could get a better roster than this from my cat's litter box.

 

[The Light Music Club]

As a character who has had a notable appearance as of late (which is the angle Sakurai seems to be approaching all the Nintendo newcomers from) and a prime candidate for another Lucina-esque clone (maybe even one a bit more differentiated - as she does have material which can set her apart from Diddy) with DK in a position where another newcomer makes a lot of sense, I'd say her chances were nothing to scoff at. No one is saying she'd have to be original, but she could be.

And K. Rool might have popularity that surpasses Dixie, but it's not like Dixie is an unpopular character, and it's not like popularity has turned out to be the be-all-and-end-all this time around.

Also, Sakurai was planning to give us three monkeys last time, wasn't he?

Yeah, I mean I totally see how she could be a Lucina-esque clone, as that's the only way I personally think she would get in.

As for Sakurai planning to give us 3 in brawl, I'm pretty sure she was supposed to be in the same roster slot as Diddy in a tag-team. I think she was only considered for the tag-team element, hence why she had Brawl data. Perhaps, Sakurai doesn't think she can thrive as her own character. That's just a theory though.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Well here's my new roster

 

[ElPanandero]

As a character who has had a notable appearance as of late (which is the angle Sakurai seems to be approaching all the Nintendo newcomers from) and a prime candidate for another Lucina-esque clone (maybe even one a bit more differentiated - as she does have material which can set her apart from Diddy) with DK in a position where another newcomer makes a lot of sense, I'd say her chances were nothing to scoff at. No one is saying she'd have to be original, but she could be.

And K. Rool might have popularity that surpasses Dixie, but it's not like Dixie is an unpopular character, and it's not like popularity has turned out to be the be-all-and-end-all this time around.

Also, Sakurai was planning to give us three monkeys last time, wasn't he?

Well technically he wanted two of the monkies to be on a team

EDIT: Greninja'd

 

[JaidynReiman]

Let me address each separate part of this post.

He is the original villain of the franchise.
He is even arguably more important than Ganondorf. Don't get me wrong Ganondorf shouldn't be cut. He is already an established character in Smash.

This is the whole problem with this notion. Ganon isn't the "original" villain of the franchise.. at least, not any more "original" than Ganondorf. THEY'RE THE SAME ****ING PERSON! Actually, if anything, the "original" Ganon is actually Ganondorf, because he was Ganondorf before he became Ganon.

The ONLY established "Ganon(dorf)" that's a separate version is Four Swords Adventures. Every other Ganon(dorf) is just the same Ganon(dorf) resurrected, and Beast/Pig Ganon is just Ganondorf transformed.

I also love how people take when I said "Ganon doesn't DESERVE his own slot" out of context. I never said Ganon couldn't get his own slot, or that Ganon wouldn't work in his own slot. The only thing I did is argue against the notion that the only way Ganon should be represented is as his own slot, period, no exceptions.

Have you played a Zelda game before? Not trying to sound like an *ss over here, but I just want to know if you ever actually played a Zelda game before.

If you did, you might notice that there are no major characters besides the big 3. The only arguable ones are Impa and (maybe) Tingle (only because he is recurring.
And Tingle is already deconfirmed and will return as an assist.

Impa on the other hand, has a decent chance.

There are several other characters that appear in multiple games, even if some aren't as important overall. Probably the biggest one is Malon of all "side" characters, as she or a variation of Malon has appeared in about 6-7 different games... not that I think Malon would ever be playable, just commenting on it. Vaati is probably the most notable, as he's the main antagonist in three games, with one game having Ganon usurp him in the end.

But yes, I have played Zelda games before. I've played nearly every single game in the series, except for a couple of the handhelds (never been a big handheld gamer). I'm well aware that there's only a few recurring characters.

Back to Ganon, besides them, nobody is recurring.

That's why, having transformations and different incarnations of those 3 characters would work as new characters. Instead of just having the big 3, only representing the more realistic games like Twilight Princess, we can have different forms of those characters to represent different branches of the series.

Wait a minute......
HOLY ****!

While typing about how different forms could represent different parts of the series, I realized something that could potentially increase Ganon's chances!

You know how the Zelda timeline splits into 3 at the end of Ocarina of time? Those 3 timelines were the branches I was just talking about.

Let's look at the characters we have so far. The Big 3 all represent the series as a whole by themselves, and each have part of the Triforce.

Link - Courage
Zelda - Wisdom
Ganondorf - Power


What about Shiek and Toon Link?
Each represent one of the timeline splits.

Shiek - The Child Timeline. Shiek (Zelda) had the wisdom to help Link on his journey.

Toon Link - The Adult Timeline. Toon Link had the courage to go out on an adventure, with no experience, to save his sister. He also had courage to defeat Ganondorf, because it was his destiny

But there is one timeline left. The Decline Timeline. This is where Ganon ties in.

Ganon - The Decline Timeline. Ganondorf has the power to defeat Link, and take over Hyrule, in his new monstrous form.

We have the 3 main characters, and a transformation of each, each representing a different part of the series

Perfect representation.

Ganon has appeared in Ocarina of Time and Four Swords Adventures, as well.

I still don't think its "perfect" representation. Frankly I'd think more variety would be nice.

Ganondorf has only turned into Beast Ganon, not Pig Ganon.

#notcanon

I think I'm going to have a migraine.

Link to the Past - Ganondorf's human form isn't shown, but its the first game to establish that Ganondorf was originally human.

Four Swords Adventures - Same as LTTP, Ganondorf's human form isn't shown, but its quite clear in this game Ganondorf was originally human, well, Gerudo in this case.


And, the big one...

Ocarina of Time - Ganondorf turns into Ganon for the final boss battle. CLEARLY you forgot this one. No, its not identical in appearance to the original Ganon, instead its much more badass and menacing looking.


Either way, Ganondorf and Ganon are the same person. Ganon is just used to refer to his monster form, whether its his beast form (TP only), or his big/boar-like form, which is every other game where "Ganon" appears

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I like this roster, except for Dixie, I'd rather have a retro to rep a new series.

Dixie's quite popular and could easily be a shoo-in for the roster and wouldn't surprise me if she was a semiclone. Plus more DK reps that we really need.

My new roster:

Goodbye, Takamaru.

Only thing I'm uncertain about is Ganon, but he would make an interesting moveset. Who would the clones be from this roster?

 

[HugoBoss]

As a character who has had a notable appearance as of late (which is the angle Sakurai seems to be approaching all the Nintendo newcomers from) and a prime candidate for another Lucina-esque clone (maybe even one a bit more differentiated - as she does have material which can set her apart from Diddy) with DK in a position where another newcomer makes a lot of sense, I'd say her chances were nothing to scoff at. No one is saying she'd have to be original, but she could be.

And K. Rool might have popularity that surpasses Dixie, but it's not like Dixie is an unpopular character, and it's not like popularity has turned out to be the be-all-and-end-all this time around.

Also, Sakurai was planning to give us three monkeys last time, wasn't he?

He also planned a Psychic Pokemon, a Doctor, a red-haired swordsman, and Toon Clones.
While I believe in Dixie, having been cut from Brawl as a tag team partner for Diddy doesn't contribute to anything.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Because he's easy to make, I suppose. He's near identical to Pit, but added dark effects to his attacks plus improved aerial game and strength would make Dark Pit another Lucina-ish clone. Same moves, different playstyle.

I think that Dark Pit is the walking definition (right next to Dr. Mario) of someone who should be an alt.

Sakurai said he is trying to cut down on clones, and we have also seen that he doesn't like over-representing his own series (Dedede and MK weren't in until Brawl), so there really isn't any reason for us to think that Pittoo will be his own character.

Yes, we have Lucina, but she is slightly different than Marth. And Sakurai seems to be trying to emulate what Roy was in Melee. A Marth clone with a different sweet spot on his sword.

There is no reason at all to have a character who does EXACTLY what Pit does.

As for the tease in the Palutena trailer, we have had teases before.
Yellow Devil at the end of Mega Man's trailer?
"Yeah, but Yellow Devil is obviously boss material."
And Dark Pit is obviously alt material.

Or maybe Dark Pit is a stage boss on Palutena's Temple. That would make sense too.

Also, don't forget Sakurai's one quote from that Famitsu thing.
It went something like "Even if character has a different voice and is a completely different character, they can still be an alternate costume as long as the abilities are the same."

 

[Justin Little]

My new roster:

Goodbye, Takamaru.

I love this! However, I would replace Bowser Jr. with Paper Mario. I love Bowser Jr, though. (maybe one of the only few who do) I would also replace Ganon with someone else also.

9/10

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, I mean I totally see how she could be a Lucina-esque clone, as that's the only way I personally think she would get in.

As for Sakurai planning to give us 3 in brawl, I'm pretty sure she was supposed to be in the same roster slot as Diddy in a tag-team. I think she was only considered for the tag-team element, hence why she had Brawl data. Perhaps, Sakurai doesn't think she can thrive as her own character. That's just a theory though.

That tag-mechanic still would've left her with her own moveset, even if it was a partially cloned one, so Sakurai obviously isn't adverse to her being playable, or three monkeys being playable. As Sakurai counts them she'd still be her own character, she still had her own data slot.

And perhaps. But given that she has spent quite a bit of time without Diddy, and that she does have potential of her own, I'm not inclined to think Sakurai feels she'd only work as one half of a tag-team. Especially since he now feels that Sheik and ZSS can work on their own, and that a slightly changed clone like Lucina merits her own spot.

He also planned a Psychic Pokemon, a Doctor, a red-haired swordsman, and Toon Clones.
While I believe in Dixie, having been cut from Brawl as a tag team partner for Diddy doesn't contribute to anything.

Yes it does, it shows that he's not adverse to three monkeys, as he would've counted Dixie as her own character like he did for all the multiple character characters.

 

[Kenith]

I was serious when I said Ghirahim could be a semi-clone of Sheik.

 

[Maxilian]

Am i the only one who thinks that is nice to at least have the character you want in the game as an AT?

I mean... i really want Ghirahim in but i will be happy (and a little sad) to have him as an AT cause at least i have him in the game

 

[PlTe]

I love this! However, I would replace Bowser Jr. with Paper Mario. I love Bowser Jr, though. (maybe one of the only few who do) I would also replace Ganon with someone else also.

9/10

I'd rather have Vaati. He'd be a good villain to Toon Link.

 

[Niala]

A tiny little addition to @ JaidynReiman 's post, Ganondorf also turns into Pig Ganon in Wind Waker, the second to last fight. There's the spider, the snake, and the Pig Ganon on puppet strings.

 

[Maxilian]

I think I'm going to have a migraine.

Link to the Past - Ganondorf's human form isn't shown, but its the first game to establish that Ganondorf was originally human.

Four Swords Adventures - Same as LTTP, Ganondorf's human form isn't shown, but its quite clear in this game Ganondorf was originally human, well, Gerudo in this case.


And, the big one...

Ocarina of Time - Ganondorf turns into Ganon for the final boss battle. CLEARLY you forgot this one. No, its not identical in appearance to the original Ganon, instead its much more badass and menacing looking.


Either way, Ganondorf and Ganon are the same person. Ganon is just used to refer to his monster form, whether its his beast form (TP only), or his big/boar-like form, which is every other game where "Ganon" appears

I'm not on his side or anything but i think he was talking about the Final Smash of Ganondorf in Brawl...

 

[Justin Little]

I'd rather have Vaati. He'd be a good villain to Toon Link.

Vaati would be cool. There is so many potential Zelda reps, it is unreal. After seeing Impa's gameplay in Hyrule Warriors, I kinda want to see her playable now.

 

[HugoBoss]

That tag-mechanic still would've left her with her own moveset, even if it was a partially cloned one, so Sakurai obviously isn't adverse to her being playable, or three monkeys being playable. As Sakurai counts them she'd still be her own character, she still had her own data slot.

And perhaps. But given that she has spent quite a bit of time without Diddy, and that she does have potential of her own, I'm not inclined to think Sakurai feels she'd only work as one half of a tag-team. Especially since he now feels that Sheik and ZSS can work on their own, and that a slightly changed clone like Lucina merits her own spot.


Yes it does, it shows that he's not adverse to three monkeys, as he would've counted Dixie as her own character like he did for all the multiple character characters.

Dixie has more going for her than scrapped data, however.
Would you say Roy, Dr.Mario, Toon Zelda/Sheik, or Pluse and Minum have greater chances as well?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Oh dear, another Zelda newcomer argument. I don't see it coming, but here's my stance

Toon Zelda- Yes
Tetra- Yes
Ghirahim- No
Vaati- Maybe
Impa- Yes
Groose- Maybe
Pig Ganon- No

 

[N3ON]

Dixie has more going for her than scrapped data, however.
Would you say Roy, Dr.Mario, Toon Zelda/Sheik, or Pluse and Minum have greater chances as well?

I know she has more going for her than that, I just listed a bunch of stuff she had going for her above.

And I'd say they have greater chances than if they weren't planned for Brawl at all, but no, I'm not holding my breath for any of them. Dixie however is in a better situation than they are, as we've both noted she has a lot more going for her.

 

[Kenith]

Or maybe Dark Pit is a stage boss on Palutena's Temple. That would make sense too.

If we are getting a stage boss on Palutena's temple, it's going to be larger than him.
Someone like

 

[YoshiandToad]

That tag-mechanic still would've left her with her own moveset, even if it was a partially cloned one, so Sakurai obviously isn't adverse to her being playable, or three monkeys being playable.


Yes it does, it shows that he's not adverse to three monkeys

I know you weren't the one to start it N3ON, and this is a real nitpick, but them being referred to as three monkeys really irritates the zoologist in me.

Diddy is the only one who is technically classed as a monkey(although some manuals call him a chimp despite the tail), with Dixie a chimp(or sometimes called a young gorilla; like the Wikipedia entry) and DK officially a gorilla. Three Primates I guess, or Kongs if you want to use in game terms.

Dixie and DK are as close to being monkeys as Mario, Peach and Captain Falcon are; aka a part of the primate family.

/minor complaint.

Apologies it's just been annoying me for ages whenever Dixie's potential playable status is brought up.

 

[JaidynReiman]

A tiny little addition to @ JaidynReiman 's post, Ganondorf also turns into Pig Ganon in Wind Waker, the second to last fight. There's the spider, the snake, and the Pig Ganon on puppet strings.

Technically Ganondorf didn't transform into that, but yes, I do recall that now.

I'm not on his side or anything but i think he was talking about the Final Smash of Ganondorf in Brawl...

I specifically said in my original post Ganondorf can get traditional "Ganon" instead of Beast Ganon for his Final Smash. It'd certainly be a lot better and a lot more interesting. Probably OOT Ganon.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'd rather have Vaati. He'd be a good villain to Toon Link.

I hate to say it, but I kinda doubt Vaati's chances at this point. Unless we get yet another 3DS Zelda stage representing Minish Cap or Four Swords, Toon Link is the only Toon representative we'll get.

Objectively speaking, Chancellor Cole and Ghirahim have the same odds of being confirmed. Because Cole's home stage of the Spirit Train makes as much sense as Ghirahim's home stage of Skyloft.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I know you weren't the one to start it N3ON, and this is a real nitpick, but them being referred to as three monkeys really irritates the zoologist in me.

Diddy is the only one who is technically classed as a monkey(although some manuals call him a chimp despite the tail), with Dixie a chimp(or sometimes called a young gorilla; like the Wikipedia entry) and DK officially a gorilla. Three Primates I guess, or Kongs if you want to use in game terms.

Dixie and DK are as close to being monkeys as Mario, Peach and Captain Falcon are; aka a part of the primate family.

/minor complaint.

Apologies it's just been annoying me for ages whenever Dixie's potential playable status is brought up.

Sorry that was my fault. I will refer to them as Kongs for now on.

 

[N3ON]

I know you weren't the one to start it N3ON, and this is a real nitpick, but them being referred to as three monkeys really irritates the zoologist in me.

Diddy is the only one who is technically classed as a monkey(although some manuals call him a chimp despite the tail), with Dixie a chimp(or sometimes called a young gorilla; like the Wikipedia entry) and DK officially a gorilla. Three Primates I guess, or Kongs if you want to use in game terms.

Dixie and DK are as close to being monkeys as Mario, Peach and Captain Falcon are; aka a part of the primate family.

/minor complaint.

Apologies it's just been annoying me for ages whenever Dixie's potential playable status is brought up.

Cheeky monkey.

I guess I've learned my zoology lessen for the day. Hopefully the lesson tomorrow is anthropomorphic canines with amputated legs, they always leave me confused.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Sorry that was my fault. I will refer to them as Kongs for now on.

Thanks; it's really petty I know but it it's almost like comparing Yoshi and K. Rool because they're green reptiles. Almost. Not really actually.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

This is the whole problem with this notion. Ganon isn't the "original" villain of the franchise.. at least, not any more "original" than Ganondorf. THEY'RE THE SAME ****ING PERSON! Actually, if anything, the "original" Ganon is actually Ganondorf, because he was Ganondorf before he became Ganon.

Let's ignore the canon for a second.
We're in a world where Ridley can be small, and Peach keeps Toad in her dress.

Forget the fact that there are the same person in the canon.
Shiek is the same person as Zelda. Zero-Suit Samus is the same person as Samus.
Yet they are still their own characters, looking themselves in the eye.

The ONLY established "Ganon(dorf)" that's a separate version is Four Swords Adventures. Every other Ganon(dorf) is just the same Ganon(dorf) resurrected, and Beast/Pig Ganon is just Ganondorf transformed.

Established as a different form of Ganondorf, with a completely different look and unique abilities.

I also love how people take when I said "Ganon doesn't DESERVE his own slot" out of context. I never said Ganon couldn't get his own slot, or that Ganon wouldn't work in his own slot. The only thing I did is argue against the notion that the only way Ganon should be represented is as his own slot, period, no exceptions.

All I said was that Ganon deserves his own slot, and can be different from Ganondorf.
I never made any "claims" about what you said.

There are several other characters that appear in multiple games, even if some aren't as important overall. Probably the biggest one is Malon of all "side" characters, as she or a variation of Malon has appeared in about 6-7 different games... not that I think Malon would ever be playable, just commenting on it. Vaati is probably the most notable, as he's the main antagonist in three games, with one game having Ganon usurp him in the end.

Wait, Malon?
She only appeared in a few games.
There was Ocarina, Majora's Mask (a game where everyone was a parallel to someone from Ocarina), Oracle of Seasons (maybe it was Ages, I forget), and Minish Cap.
I'm pretty sure that's it.

Vaati on the other hand, does have importance.
But I see him as just important to the Zelda series, as Fawful is to the Mario series. A 3-time villain in a handheld sub-series.
Not that he wouldn't be cool. I love both of those characters.

Ganon has appeared in Ocarina of Time and Four Swords Adventures, as well.

But his most prominent roles were in the Decline Timeline games. In fact, his appearance in Ocarina was leading into the Decline Timeline.

I still don't think its "perfect" representation. Frankly I'd think more variety would be nice.

Yes, more variety would be nice, but I'm just stating wether he deserves a slot, and has a decent chance of being in the game.
And considering the only Zelda characters we have are the big 3, and two variations of two of them, Ganon makes perfect sense in my eyes.

I think I'm going to have a migraine.

That's a completely necessary comment.

Link to the Past - Ganondorf's human form isn't shown, but its the first game to establish that Ganondorf was originally human.

Which hints towards a game that further explores the backstory behind the series, AKA Ocarina of a time.

Four Swords Adventures - Same as LTTP, Ganondorf's human form isn't shown, but its quite clear in this game Ganondorf was originally human, well, Gerudo in this case.

And this isn't the Ganondorf that is in Smash.
And as I said before, forget about the whole "Same person thing."
Smash is not canon. They may not be the same person, but that Ganon and the Decline Timeline Ganon are the same character.

And, the big one...

Ocarina of Time - Ganondorf turns into Ganon for the final boss battle. CLEARLY you forgot this one. No, its not identical in appearance to the original Ganon, instead its much more badass and menacing looking.

This transformation leads into the Decline Timeline AKA the classic games.

Either way, Ganondorf and Ganon are the same person. Ganon is just used to refer to his monster form, whether its his beast form (TP only), or his big/boar-like form, which is every other game where "Ganon" appears

Once more, I'll say that canon doesn't matter.
Ganondorf and Ganon are different characters. Just like how Sheik is a different character from Zelda.

 

[Kenith]

Objectively speaking, Chancellor Cole and Ghirahim have the same odds of being confirmed. Because Cole's home stage of the Spirit Train makes as much sense as Ghirahim's home stage of Skyloft.

You know there's more going for him than that, right?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

A tiny little addition to @ JaidynReiman 's post, Ganondorf also turns into Pig Ganon in Wind Waker, the second to last fight. There's the spider, the snake, and the Pig Ganon on puppet strings.

Actually, that is Puppet Ganon.
It's just a puppet of Ganon that Ganondorf is controlling. It's not actually Ganondorf transforming into Ganon.

The old guy probably doesn't have it in him anymore.