Character Discussion: Falco

[Micaelis]

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Falco

vs.

Ratio - 45:55

Advantages:

- We're heavy, it's hard to kill us. His kill moves are easy to see coming.
- We kill Falco very early and have many options to do so.
- We outrange him minus laser camping.
- We can punish rolls and spot dodges better.
- We can gimp his recovery fairly well.

Disadvantages:

- Our shield/model size due to his laser camp.
- Our start up speed on attacks vs. his.
- Chain Grab can rack up 50-80% if you're not careful.
- Spikes can steal a stock if you're not careful.

Summary:

Approaching will be your hardest task in the match-up. Focus on powershielding and
SHADing the predictable lasers to get in close to Falco. Try not to get grabbed at early
percents (this will really turn the tide in your favor). Make sure you know how to recover
from the CG spike. Learn to identify Falco's kill moves (Usmash, Fsmash, Dsmash, Uair, Bair)
and when he's most likely to use them. This will increase your survivability dramatically.
Practice gimping Falco's recovery through edge-hogging and attacks. Learn to punish
spot dodges, rolls, and phantasm.

Aerial Game:

DK wins here with good spacing. It's our Uair and Bair vs. their Dair and Bair. Ours
have better range and speed but his have better priority and Bair is a sex kick. Falco will
use Dair to make it back down due to it's high priority, bait it and punish. Our Bair can
easily juggle him due to his fall speed so make use of it if you land one.

Ground Game:

DK wins here too minus camping with lasers and Phantasm. With proper spacing,
DK outranges every move Falco has (except Fsmash) and can punish all Falco does. Be
wary of Falco's jab however due to it's start-up speed and larger-than-seems range; also
it leads into a grab. Falco has a 0-54% chain grab on DK and can follow it up with a Dair
spike off stage. DK can punish Falco's spot dodges and rolls with UpB and DownB easily
however for a lot of percent.

Approach:

This will be the hardest thing to do in this MU. Powershield and SHAD the lasers to
get in close. If you want, take some damage at early percent to prevent his use of the CG
if you get grabbed (sometimes this is preferable!). Falco should always force your
approach; he will never want to be close to you.

Camping Game:

This is where Falco shines. With Falco's SHDL/SL he can force DK to approach and
when DK gets close he just uses Phantasm to reset the situation and repeat. DK however
can (and [I]sometimes [/I]should) camp Falco if he has a stock lead. UpB ledge stalling
and PSing, SHADing lasers will keep you unharmed when down right and force Falco to
approach where he's not comfortable.

Edge Game:

Falco's may charge Fsmash on stage due to it's extremely large hitbox, just wait
it out. DK can ledge-gaurd with Bairs and Dsmash on stage (for the spike). Also, Falco's
recovery can be gimped easily when they do not recover directly on stage (which should
be punished!). Learn to semi-circle ledge-hog or punish Falco's during Phantasm for a free
kill or easy damage. Be careful of Falco's spike on Phantasm however but saving your DJ
should always enable you to come back (except at very high percents).

Surviving:

DK can do it and Falco can't. UpB braking and good DI will easily let DK live to
150%+. Learn Falco's kill set and when he uses them since they're easy to see coming
usually. Listed by frequency and power his kill moves tend to be Usmash, Uair,
Bair/Fsmash, and Dsmash. A "silent" single laser close to the ground is usually followed up
by a boosted Usmash from Falco. This is his most common way to kill. Just shield the
laser and Usmash.

Killing:

DK can do it and Falco can't. All our smashes kill Falco before 100% and Dsmash can be
used OoS for an early kill around 96% (depends on DI and positioning etc). Our Punch
and 9-wind can kill him even early (around 50% with the 9-wind if not earlier). Learn the
SA frames and abuse them. You can also Smash Falco out of his Phantasm with good
timing (Dsmash is good for this).

Stage Striking:

Final Destination (no platforms to abuse your superior aerial game on and the camping
gets worse here) and Battlefield (platforms make it hard to get back down and Falco
can abuse your aerial blind spot well here). This are of course opinionated but based off
what people said.

Stage Banning:

Final Destination and maybe Japes if it's legal and you're not comfortable on it and the
Falco knows how to use it.

Counterpicks:

Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Yoshi's Island, and Castle Seige (good blast zones and statues
prevent lasers and tilting/cut platform prevents CG) are good. Anything that helps
prevent Falco's camp game.

Video Links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX2z9nsp4kk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0d34O2mjOs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJBiOLjmyU&feature=related

 

[Donkey Bong]

Aerial Game: in this respect, it's DK's game. DK and Falco both posses a strong air game, so when airborne, spacing is key for both characters. However, DK's aerials are huge and quite fast (bair/uair) so generally, Falco will want to get to the ground as opposed to challenge DK's aerials. Falco's dair will help him do that quite well, so try to bait it and punish.

Ground Game: DK's ground game straightout beats Falco's. the problem is that a majority of a good Falco's time will be spent trying to stay away from DK and SHDL or SHSL, both of which are really good at keeping DK at bay. once DK is within tilt range, go to town on that bad boy. ftilt outspaces all of Falco's ground attacks except Fsmash iirc. keep him at that range as long as possible til Falco is pressured offstage. the only cool thing Falco has on the ground is his DACUS, it can hit DK for a quick ~30%.

Approach: this is going to be the hardest part of the matchup. SHDL and SHSL are too good at keeping DK away from Falco. Phantasm is really fast and good at getting Falco to safety. Super armor is a bit hard to time correctly but it works if you mix it up with powershielding. srsly guys, LRN2PWRSHLD.

Defense: Shield>Falco. Essentially his problem in all matchups. Except for the first 50% of your stock (because of the chaingrab to spike), abuse your shield. Falco cannot beat it. So what if he grabs you at 90%? He'll tack on 6% more with a bthrow or uthrow. DON'T try to roll behind Falco's fsmash for a punish, if you're at a high percentage, the hitbox behind it will hurt and may catch you offguard. Just shield it, ok guys? punish with Dsmash OoS.

Camping Game: Falco has it. SHDL, SHSL, phantasm. just be patient. again, LRN2PWRSHLD.

Edge Game: DK has it. just be aware that phantasm can spike you, its happened to me many a times where i go offstage to bair the crap out of Falco and he just waits to phantasm you and you're too low to make it back onstage. be careful out there. bait an early phantasm, then punish.

Surviving: DK lives forever!!! especially here! when DK is at high percents, use attacks that will make create enough shield pressure so he can't use his Usmash OoS. Dsmash, Fsmash, Punch, these are all good options to prevent OoS punishment. Falco is heavier than Fox, but he won't live past 120% if DK uses fresh kill moves near the kill zones.

Killing: Falco can't do it, DK can and then some. It's going to be a bit difficult to get the kill move on Falco, but just wait for his mistake to punish. If Falco is foolish enough to throw out a downb, punish the crap out of it. its got a lot of ending lag, and the hitbox stays out for only a few frames. Roast that bird. Then make a Falco banana sandwich. With his bread.

edit: Matchup ratio: 60:40 before the chaingrab, 50:50 if DK manages to survive the spike. tech that spike!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g

 

[ZxChrono]

one thing some falcos love doing while your near the edge and recovering back to the stage above them is charge fsmash. its very hilarious to catch them with a sideb in mid air and kill them at 50% next to the edge with a fsmash. against a smart campy falco you wont get ftilt in too much since they side b to reset their spacing. if you ever grab falco throw his *** away from the stage or throw him up and bair him away. if you dont know how to powershield this is a very annoying matchup. i tend not to use upb in this matchup against a good falco because even if you manage to time the SA on the laser, there isnt enough hits left on upb to shield poke and you end up getting grabbed always. downb is good for when you predict their sideb placement and chase in range when they land to shield pressure or for some damage if your lucky. definately 60:40 before spike but the laser camp is too good so 55:45.

 

[Ripple]

Aerial Game: --- DK's aerial game out right beats falco's aerial game. Falco's don't even use many aerials except for bair or dair. However, those **** lasers get in the way of everything DK does. You'll have to stay out of the air until you can get close enough to falco to hit him with a bair. Once you get a bair on falco, then you should continue to follow it up as much as you can because itll be reset with a phantasm or laser.


Ground Game: Falco's got lasers, phantasm, and a great chain grab to spike.

-Lasers- one of the biggest pains in the game. you'll have to approach powershielding everything OR you can take about 15-20% in lasers and then approach because you'll avoid the chaingrab. single laser to upsmash is usually the only way falco will kill you, so avoid the single laser at high% at all costs. you can usually see it coming and with enough practice you can punish the single laser before it even come out.

how to counter: powershield is one option and you could try and go for a grab but isnt recommended. stay within f-tilt range and when they take to the air unshield and f-tilt or before they land you can go for a d-tilt

phantasm- pretty much impossible to punish unless you predict it. usually they use it right after they laser and we powershield. great GTFO move

how to counter: Predict or bait


chaingrab: 0-25 and then you can jump out but if youre over an edge don't jump obviously. You can always survive the spike. just continue to tap up on the joy stick and DI away. falco can't do anything after the spike. after the chain grab. falco can not rack up damage very well.

how to counter: take lasers to avoid it.

Approach:

falco doesn't approach DK very well and because of lasers we must approach him. PS and f-tilt are good approaches.

Defense:

DK has no real defenses except for weight.

Falco has GREAT GTFO moves

Camping Game:

everyone knows that falco can camp like a ***** but not everyone know that DK can camp falco just as well. IF you ever find yourself up a stock I recommend not approaching falco at all. just punish him for his approachs. camp the ledge if you have to


Edge Game:

Falco's sucks and can't do anything to edge guard except charge f-smash on the stage

DK can bair edge guard or he can ledge snap the edge and then when falco uses his phantasm to get above the ledge use the jump get up and mash side-b. this is a great mixup and looks awesome. IF falco should ever need to use up-b, he should be dead no matter what.

Surviving:

DK survives forever, especially against falco since he has no lead up to kill moves. ive lived until 250% because all the falco did is laser since he could not approach.

falco is very light and doesn't survive past 120ish%

Killing:


Falco has 2-3 kill moves and they only come out when we are over 150%. up-smash, F-smash, and bair.

f-smash is easy enough to avoid by not getting trapped into air dodging. but the other 2 are a little tricky. bair is set up by phantasm which more likely than not, you will get hit by it. up-smash is set up by single laser. should be somewhat easy enough to avoid.

DK kills falco really well. d-smash, punch, and UP-TILT?!. yeah, punish or predict with punch and d-smash and stay safe with up-tilt. up-tilt kills really well since it comes out frame 4. and kills falco around 130%


Stage Striking:

FD and BF (imo)

Stage Banning:

japes (imo), FD

Counterpicks:

RC, Brinstar, YS


Video Links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX2z9nsp4kk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0d34O2mjOs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJBiOLjmyU&feature=related

 

[D0N]

About the chaingrab...

Unless there has been recent discoveries I don't know about, falcos chaingrab goes to about 40% doesn't it?

Either way, its better to avoid the chaingrab at all costs imo so just do what Ripple says to avoid it. If you end up by the ledge the spike won't kill you but a follow up footstool/spike/something may. If you're still onstage and they d-air at the end then you may get tech chased for an extra 20% or so depending on how good they are.

Oh, and if they do the dash chaingrab, buffer side b while you know thier grabs are gaurunteed... just incase they trip lol

 

[Micaelis]

Actually D0N I'm pretty sure you do an UpB and always get out of the dash pivot CG. Works for me all the time. Just mash UpB during the CG until you get near an edge then DI outwards and jump DI out again and recover to prevent follow ups.

Best place to be in this match-up is a medium distance (outside of Falco's Ftilt range but not ours) and pressure him into the air or to spot dodge etc. Punish the SD/rolls with DownB and everything else with Dtilt and Ftilt. You can do double and sometimes triple Bair follow ups if you hit Falco in the air due to his mobility/fall speed. So rack up the damage and make that bird be afraid of our Dsmash.

When Falco is off the stage you can single jab his SideB to send him under the ledge to make gimping easier (you can UpB for some damage too if you're timing is off). Or do the semi-circle edge grab if you think he's sweet spotting it. You can intercept his SideB with most of DKs moves so just learn the timing. I prefer Dsmash since it does good damage and the timing is easier due to the speed of it but that's just me.

Avoiding the CG gives you a huge advantage in the MU but it's so hard to do against an experienced Falco so good luck. Also a 9-wind is clutch sometimes :D

 

[Demp]

I got knocked out of Losers 3 out of 4 times 3 different Falcos who only used SHDL and Phagtasm (they didn't even use their CG).

Frankly, if they do this we are kind of ****ed. Not impossible, but it definitely changes the 45:55 to 40:60.

 

[Donkey Bong]

YI is a really good CP, invulnerability glitch makes it a lot easier to get close.

 

[Tujex]

It's obvious that the biggest asset of Falco's game is his laser spam...and once you learn than, and get the PS timing down it becomes a lot easier. I have a bit of trouble deciding whether to either take the lasers, or evade/shield the lasers.

In terms of outright fighting...DK crushes Falco. Every DK should know that a true Falco will never try to go hand-to-hand with you as DK has him beat in terms of range and power...so whatever speed advantage he may have can be crushed with proper spacing. As stated above, the majority of this match-up will be DK trying to approach Falco. Once your in, there's not a lot he can do to stop you other than try to run away and set himself back up for camping or CG...since he'll be saving his worthwhile moves for the kill.

This is probably one of the few match-ups where I get as gay as possible, and if I get a stock up on a Falco, I will camp corners like CoD until he's forced to come to me.

Not sure which stages work best against him. I like LM and YI, but I hear that Mansion has been banned from some tourneys so, I'll stick with YI as a surefire CP. Avoid FD at ALL COSTS, and I hate taking him to Japes...though some may disagree with that.

This match is slightly in DK's favor IMO. 60:40 tops, but the stage can REALLY alternate this, seeing as how it's more 40:60 Falco if I get stuck on a stage like FD.

 

[M@v]

Stating the obvious, but don't get grabbed in cg range near the ledge with Dk. We all know what happens.

 

[Ripple]

Stating the obvious, but don't get grabbed in cg range near the ledge with Dk. We all know what happens.

we take about 20% if we're near a ledge. nothing else.

if you're trying to say DK will die, you're very wrong

55-45 falco

 

[D0N]

Actually D0N I'm pretty sure you do an UpB and always get out of the dash pivot CG. Works for me all the time. Just mash UpB during the CG until you get near an edge then DI outwards and jump DI out again and recover to prevent follow ups.

I wasn't talking about the dash pivot CG. Forgot about it to be honest lol, you're probly right. I just meant if they keep dashing forward to CG instead of walking have the side-b ready incase they trip. Works for D3 too as long as they don't know your buffering it and punish you for it.

DI'ing away helps and it makes it much harder for them to follow up offstage, but they still can kill (rare) if they know enough about the matchup. Most can't follow up well after you DI away, but better safe than sorry. I'd say just take damage until 40% if its your first time playing them during tourney.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

we take about 20% if we're near a ledge. nothing else.

if you're trying to say DK will die, you're very wrong

55-45 falco

yeah, the ledge is only bad if you're around 40%, as then, if the falco is larry, he can double spike you. even then that has risks as if he miss he dies.

 

[D0N]

What bigfoot said minus "if its larry"

Though im sure larry would

 

[Jon K]

DK's upB shuts down Falco's phantasm when he shoots into it after DK is already spinning.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

I think it's a 55-45 matchup, but any matchups played against larry are extended by 10 points in falcos favor, making it quite bad.

 

[Big O]

I just wanted to point out how important being patient is in this MU. I saw Commander Beef (used DK)play Brent (used Falco) at the last tourney I went to and I couldn't beleive how patient he was. He took like at least 200% damage in lasers and phantasms (probably more...) and for a while he was losing pretty badly. I was getting annoyed just looking at the extreme camping going on (lol) and Beef kept his cool and pulled off some very nice clutch moves to manage the win in round 1. I saw lots of mistakes and stuff I would've done differently than him, but the state of mind he had allowed him to really take advantage of any small holes he saw in the camping. Just being patient enough to notice the holes (and not play like crap after prolonged camping) is something I think we all should get better at. Even though I am better with DK overall, I probably would have gotten ***** vs Brett after taking the 100th laser to the face.

If you grab him out of his side b just grab release him off the stage and edge hog the up b thats coming. Falco also has RCO lag on both up b and side b so look out for oppurtunites to punish air dodges to the ground if they ever manage to get back on the stage. Dthrow is also pretty good vs. Falco since he's light FF'er so. Stuff like Dthrow to down b is a true combo at 11-20 something % and Dthrow to dash grab may work well (don't try it if you have 0%).

 

[DKwill]

I did play a sandbagging Larry in one friendly at Pound 4 in the hotel the first night, and I can attest to the fact that if he was camping lasers like I know he would do in tournament, I would not have been able to approach or do as well as I did. We had a really fun, aggro match, down to last hit on Halberd.

I could tell something was wrong bc I was not getting lasered in the face the entire match xD

We have that replay recorded though bc some epic stuff happened =)

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Falco's really love their spot dodges, their frame data for that is really good. So if you are going to punish something, do an attack that lasts. Like down b, up b, or charged smashes for kills.

 

[Darknid]

Helpful tip, if he is in ftilt range, ftilt will beat his SHDL. You will get hit by the first laser, and Falco will get hit by ftilt. Excellent trade. Angle upwards.

 

[Demp]

DK's upB shuts down Falco's phantasm when he shoots into it after DK is already spinning.

There are 2 parts to Falco's Side B: the first half of the distance covered, and the second half. The first half, I am fairly sure depending on the SA frames, is hard to beat with mosts attacks and it will either go through our Up B and won't hurt him, or it could beat our Up B (I forget if that is true or not). I forget the details about this part (but I am pretty sure Up B won't beat it) because it has been forever since I played a Falco, but the results do vary. Please correct me if I am wrong.

But the second half is easy to beat with a lot of things, so it is pretty good for punishing with Up B. Personally when Falco is trying to recover to the stage and you missed your opportunity to Bair him offstage I like to go to the middle to predict where he lands with his Up B if he decides to go over the ledge, then punish accordingly with a smash or Side B. If he decides to Side B to the ledge I run to the ledge, but quarter of the stage away, and Up B when he is coming up in case he tries to connect a Side B on you, or PS the Side B and get up close to him to not give him any space. But be careful with this part and don't go too close. He can do a ledge getup attack below 100% which will knock you on your butt and he can do a laser lock.

 

[DKwill]

So, jabbing Falco's side b out of the air is definitely the most satisfying feeling ever. I did it last night to one of my friends on FD, and he was at mid/high percent- he flew off the stage, unaware of what happened and only able to recover with up-b. It was an easy edge hog =)

 

[Cable]

This MU is def in Falco favor it can be quite difficult for DK. You have to try and perfect shield all the lasers or just dodge them and try to not get CG its a real pain. Close Combat is also terrible Falco's jab completely shuts down DK. The DK has to play smart, patient, and space himself well. DK shouldn't try to grab falco cuz its your going to get jabbed most of the time. D-tilts bairs if possible if you catch a grab throw falco in the air and juggle him until he has high damage throw him off stage its harder for them to get back.
I also had a friendly with Larry its difficult but we were just like fooling around it was fun tho his falco is something else

 

[TheHulk]

when are we gonna discuss about iceclimbers matchup

 

[Four Leaf]

So, jabbing Falco's side b out of the air is definitely the most satisfying feeling ever. I did it last night to one of my friends on FD, and he was at mid/high percent- he flew off the stage, unaware of what happened and only able to recover with up-b. It was an easy edge hog =)

I actually purposely go for this and see what they do. Sometimes it vacuum's into a grab. I also approach falco's lasers with the armor frames from our Up B on the bottom laser, free % and works more than you'd think if you do it close enough. I up B right through the laser. It's very easy to time since every single dk player has seen a million lasers by now

also if you get caught in his A tap, you can di up and away into an up air
55/45 because of our weight and not too much else. An equally skilled falco has a better shot though bc of sheer camping.

 

[Micaelis]

Updated. Check over the information for me and PM me anything wrong with it. After a week with no additional discussion I'll top him off as a 100%

Doing Wario next. Wish I had more discussion than my own.

 

[DKwill]

I have a post somewhere a ways back in the old character discussion thread where I wrote an essay on Falco I think.... I'm going to go back and find it, and repost it here soon =)

Edit: Ok I think I found it, if I find anything else I will be sure to post it up asap.

"After watching the falco match I have a few comments. Whenever falco is falling, especially after he double jumps, remember to approach with grounded up-b. Even if he lasers, if you up-b at the right time your super armor frames will protect you and the trade in damage is well worth it.

Also, don't be afraid to edge guard his recovery a little more aggressively. Aside from baiting his jump and immediately b-airing him before his illusion for the easy gimp, there is another way to punish it.

When you KNOW he is going to illusion past you to the stage (above the edge) time a n-air so that it will knock him back. If you time it right, there is no trade and he will be pushed out into the abyss lol. Depending on the stage, if his only way of recovering is an up b at this point, you can still jump and d-air him! (I have pulled this off on Yoshi's Island)

In addition, if you would rather a safer punish, bait the illusion. Make it look like you are going to go out to gimp him with a b-air, but then DI back onto the stage and air dodge. Normally they will get scared and illusion onto the stage, past your buffered shield from which you can d-smash them or grab them depending upon how well they spaced the illusion onto the ground.

I liked your use of f-tilt on falco, I am thinking of using it more after watching this. Also, if falco is ever caught underneath the stage and forced to use his up b to recover vertically, DK has the perfect tools to gimp him. If you are close enough to the edge, simply run off and b-air him into the stage, easy gimp.

Edit: Also!! Play against someone for practice and have them do nothing but short hop double laser you. Power shield the lasers this way and soon it will become second nature. xD"