Character Competitive Impressions

[NAKAT]

I remember posting my top 5 here a long time ago. It has changed now after the patch.

1. Diddy Kong
2. Sheik
3. Rosalina and Luma
4. Pikachu
5. Ness

The rest

6. Lucario
7. Yoshi
8. Fox
9. Sonic
10. Robin/ZSS

Just my personal opinion from experience, analysis of tools, and theory crafting. Do not take it as law.

On to the topic of Mario. I personally feel like Mario is a candidate for Mid/bottom high tier. Mew2king thinks the character is a big sleeper and Ally believes he is 7th in the game. Throughout the current high/top level players I speak to I have heard nothing but good things about Mario.

Now, why do I think Mario is good?

I'll take into consideration a couple of his buffs

Reliable kill power (Lacked in Melee and Brawl)
Improved Up-B (Lacked in every iteration of Smash) (Up-B also has some startup invincibility making it great for punishes and hard to gimp him if well timed.)
Cape still having the ability to really hurt and net early kills and is good for overall off stage pressure.
No longer can be edge hogged
Aerial mobility is very good
His combo potential is excellent and nets a very good amount of damage. He can also combo out of his dthrow
No more meteor canceling making fair actually good
Dair is good for safe pressure when used to retreat and cross an opponents shield
Has average speed so it's not good or bad
Edge Guarding game is great. His aerials are really useful in this department.
Fire Ball is a good zoning tool.

His general kit is not bad and the mechanics of this game aid him well. Outside of me doing well with Mario I watch Ally frequently and see the same demonstration of skill. Along with other players such as Anti, Kadaj, etc.

Mario is a good character in this game in my opinion and the many opinions of others. No where close to his previous counterparts or near low tier.

Ally's response to Mario being "Bottom 5."

"........"


I think I will take the opinions of other top/high level players and weigh them with my own on this one.

 

[Nu~]

Anybody wanna talk about characters with low discussion like...
,,,

 

[NAKAT]

Delete This one.

So it's cool for you to **** on people's opinion of anything even though they may have more experience than you, and they have the resources (i.e. having the game) to maybe substantiate it? Personally, I'd take the word of the person seriously that actually plays the game over the word of a self-styled armchair hack.



I'll let this speak for itself. I'm done.

Smooth Criminal

Liked 10 times.

 

[meleebrawler]

One of the greatest hurdles Megaman players will likely
need to overcome is mastering the short hop pellets.

I think he has one of the shortest windows for successfully
inputting a short hop in the game.

 

[NairWizard]

Thanks Nakat. That's useful information. Looking at it from that perspective, I have been persuaded to reconsider my initial impressions of Mario. I'll give him another shot and see. Hopefully A2Z also finds some use for your thoughts. Cheers.

Random other note: someday people will realize how broken OP disgusting Shulk is.

I know @ ChronoPenguin is feeling me.

 

[Shaya]

Shulk with all his straight number buffs, combined with all of his versatility and skill curve that has taken time to get used to it = bat **** insane.
Before, Shulk was still good: jump, buster, shield and smash were all very scary used properly. He has PT-syndrome, where you would generally just choose to camp him out in smash and buster, and he didn't necessarily have the tools to break through that. I'm not sure with that in mind that his now way-too-many-buffs state will even out at top level.

But, Shulk has bad recovery? Nope, Jump
Ness back throw looking a little scary? Shield
Poking people/beating shields with safety? Buster
Have a 100% lead due to hitting people on buster twice? Smash forward tilt/dash attack~ SCORE

Perhaps he's technically hard to use, but I don't think the mental aspects of this character are that complicated (just needing time to settle) and Sakurai's balance team probably dropped the ball a little, because arguably right now he needs to be tuned back - and I think that's something we would hope would never be a problem (seriously, years of league of legends; I don't want to deal with this dynamic of developers over buffing in one drop and having to peal it all back in the long run to almost their original states or WORSE).

 

[meleebrawler]

Thanks Nakat. That's useful information. Looking at it from that perspective, I have been persuaded to reconsider my initial impressions of Mario. I'll give him another shot and see. Hopefully A2Z also finds some use for your thoughts. Cheers.

Random other note: someday people will realize how broken OP disgusting Shulk is.

I know @ ChronoPenguin is feeling me.

A2Z will probably just say that a lot of the info is wrong
and that we're spreading false impressions of him... again.

If someone wants to play or main character X and you want
to help him or her, the first reaction shouldn't be to point
at higher tier characters who can supposedly do what X does
but better. You can be honest about the character not doing
well competitively (the general attitude of Zelda threads), but
it's important to remember a lot of people pick characters that
they like, NOT necessarily characters that they win the most with.

 

[TTTTTsd]

*snippet on Mario*

Thanks! I appreciate the insight from high level players! Ally's putting Mario up pretty high though, let's see how far he takes him ;3

 

[san.]

Percent is definitely what Shulk needed. 6% aerials? Please.

Now reducing Buster damage taken from 40% to ~13% or whatever? That's flippin lol. Still don't think Shulk is broken, but he has a ton going for him. I'm still not fond of his autocancel frames (or lack thereof), especially on fair.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Thanks Nakat. That's useful information. Looking at it from that perspective, I have been persuaded to reconsider my initial impressions of Mario. I'll give him another shot and see. Hopefully A2Z also finds some use for your thoughts. Cheers.

Random other note: someday people will realize how broken OP disgusting Shulk is.

I know @ ChronoPenguin is feeling me.

I already said hes gonna get nerfed eventually, because I think Shulk has it too good.
If they nerfed Dragon rage they have to nerf power vision.
He was good before but it was hard to ascertain in a game with so much that was new and shiny, so much that was attractive and felt up-to-ar. Then he gets buffed and im like "This character isnt on shulk level, and this character isnt on shulks level, and that character definitely isn't". I was in this thread during 1.03 not being hasty, and checking everyones views on Shulk seeing what I felt on everyone else. I didn't respect his jab (and in many situations I still don't.) There's just not enough valid reason to even discredit him anymore.

Eventually you just start entertaining the notion he's one of the best of the roster. It's not because the buffs were huge individually theres just a lot of things in there that make a better whole. I honestly feel he can fight every character solidly.

Buster always dealt 40% damage but Shulk took 20% far as I remember it. So it was a 20% advantage in Shulks favor. Now its 27% given equal trades. Hyper Smash and Hyper speed lost drawbacks too, while customs aren't being rapidly discussed yet, Shulks got a lot going for him.

Speed had a 28% damage debuff but now its 20%, but damage in base went up too which made speeds current damage comparable to 1.03's vanilla damage. Essentially Speed has no damage drawback relative to 1.03 vanilla, and 1.03 vanilla was still a respectable character.

 

[Locke 06]

Doesn't Shulk still suffer from the issues he had before the patch? Laggy tilts, telegraphed approach, lackluster recovery (outside of jump), and still can be camped out in smash/buster? Number buffs are great and all, but fundamentally he's still the same and still has most of the same issues (increased shield stun helps quite a bit though).

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm gonna side with San. 6% aerials is stupid and honestly if he ends up as one of the best (I HIGHLY doubt he's the best in the game, he's got power and stuff but I hate overestimating) it's because his mechanic is now properly implemented.

 

[Shaya]

He takes less damage in buster, small percent increases on his moves gives him safety on shield/many other small tweaks that impact some 500,000 other mechanics (a 1% increase on a move has mechanical impacts on SO SO SO SO SO many things).

Jump and Speed weren't being used properly because they're hard to control (Palutena light weight anyone?), but when you realise that comboing in this game isn't even hard when a flick of the stick is covering about half the size of FD faster than reaction speed, things change a lot.

Jump and Speed stances were good enough reasons to me that Shulk shouldn't have gotten many buffs in the first place (look at what such things do to Palutena). 9/10 players aren't going to have any idea how to actually control such a character.

Either way, we can just blame Japan on making a day 1 tier list that Sakurai actually took seriously. Lol at shulk being [near?] last.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I still think his aerials and his damage output was far too low as it was initially, regardless of how easy it was to combo. You can argue it went up too much but I feel like laggy stuff that does low %s regardless of how much it combos is just...sad.

I think the damage changes for Buster is dumb though. I think the damage he took in it before was fine, added some more risk. But w/e this character is weird and I'm not going to say anything before it settles.

 

[Nobie]

I find it kind of funny that one person mentions how Shield Shulk is actually amazing and then the discussion shifts to Mega Man vs. Shulk, because I feel that Shield Shulk is like the worst possible thing to use against Mega Man. Having greater resistance to knockback doesn't mean as much if Mega Man can just pellet the slower-moving Shulk for the duration of the Monado mode with no real difference because the pellets don't knock the opponent back anyway. As far as I can tell, this doesn't affect the matchup really, as all it takes to get around this is for Shulk to just not use Shield stance, but I find it entertaining.

 

[NairWizard]

I don't think Shulk is broken, but I do think that he's top 5.
I mean, you want to talk about your Diddys and your Sheiks, but both of these characters have nothing on Buster/Speed Shulk imo. Buster Shulk is legitimately dumb; every move is safe on shield, and even his jab does huge amounts of damage (his jab is good; certain characters may fall out but they're the same characters that die at like 1%, such as Jigglypuff and Rosalina--actually Jigglypuff probably dies at 0.32%, my bad for overestimating).
Speed Shulk's pivot grabs are ridiculous.
Smash Shulk has a kill throw, though he does give other characters kill throws against him as well, but meh, basically his entire kit will kill in this mode.

His edgeguarding is also top tier. He can edgeguard Pikachu in Jump Mode. That's absurd.

 

[Radical Larry]

Let me give my perspective on Shulk; sure, his aerial damage output is...lacking, but then again, let's not forget that they have somewhat decent knockback and edge-guarding abilities akin to or better than Marth (Shulk has a better meteor smash than Marth, IMO).

In Jump Mode, you can pretty much guarantee a safe edgeguard on most opponents. In Buster, the damage racks up and stacks for Shulk, and with Smash...it may be great against opponents, but don't send any upward.

 

[Locke 06]

I don't think Shulk is broken, but I do think that he's top 5.
I mean, you want to talk about your Diddys and your Sheiks, but both of these characters have nothing on Buster/Speed Shulk imo. Buster Shulk is legitimately dumb; every move is safe on shield, and even his jab does huge amounts of damage (his jab is good; certain characters may fall out but they're the same characters that die at like 1%, such as Jigglypuff and Rosalina--actually Jigglypuff probably dies at 0.32%, my bad for overestimating).
Speed Shulk's pivot grabs are ridiculous.
Smash Shulk has a kill throw, though he does give other characters kill throws against him as well, but meh, basically his entire kit will kill in this mode.

His edgeguarding is also top tier. He can edgeguard Pikachu in Jump Mode. That's absurd.

That's what he can do. Now what can't he do.

Shulk gets combo'd/juggled pretty hard, doesn't he? Pressured up close? Camped out decently by slow moving projectiles (If you try and outprioritize, you're committing to a move that can be punished). Shulk at a disadvantage doesn't have a lot of ways to reset unless he can get out a monado art to switch to jump/speed. Everyone is focusing on his strengths and describing the drawbacks as "easily managed" but I'm just not seeing it. In buster mode, the drawback is real and you will feel it if someone takes advantage of it. Buster mode may be dumb offensively, but defensively you're in a lot of trouble.

 

[Jabejazz]

Yes his aerials have **** damage in vanilla mode, so what? Nair is probably the best nair in the history of Smash, and Fair is pretty damn good as well. And I mean, his aerials would be garbage if you didn't have steroids you could pop every now and then to deal 3 gorillion damage.

I think 1.0.4 Shulk got slightly overtuned. Not broken by any means, but I don't think he needed half of what he got.

 

[Shaya]

I still think his aerials and his damage output was far too low as it was initially, regardless of how easy it was to combo. You can argue it went up too much but I feel like laggy stuff that does low %s regardless of how much it combos is just...sad.

Eh, I didn't say he didn't deserve anything. But blanket buffs is one of the silliest things a developer could ever do.
Initial impressions of him were a lot lower than he actually was.

Yes his aerials have **** damage in vanilla mode, so what? Nair is probably the best nair in the history of Smash,.

Do you want me to start talking about Brawl Marth's neutral air?
Neutral air in that game is better than entire characters in versatility, damage, safety, kill power, range.
Out of everything that Marth had nerfed transitioning into smash 4, neutral air got gutted the hardest by far.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

That's what he can do. Now what can't he do.

Shulk gets combo'd/juggled pretty hard, doesn't he? Pressured up close? Camped out decently by slow moving projectiles (If you try and outprioritize, you're committing to a move that can be punished). Shulk at a disadvantage doesn't have a lot of ways to reset unless he can get out a monado art to switch to jump/speed. Everyone is focusing on his strengths and describing the drawbacks as "easily managed" but I'm just not seeing it. In buster mode, the drawback is real and you will feel it if someone takes advantage of it. Buster mode may be dumb offensively, but defensively you're in a lot of trouble.

Not really, because of Monado artes you can change the knockback you'll recieve. Which changes the opponents ability to combo you or how punitive those combos are.

What projectiles are you talking about?

Jump, Speed, the fact that he out ranges the majority of your follow ups creating walls between you and himself. His ability to BS over projectiles, plus the occasional use of Back slash charges Super armor in customs. The counter (for all its cons),

Defensively? Not really?
You take more damage in Jump then you do in Buster now.
Jump takes 1.2x damage, Shield reduces 33%, Buster takes 1.13x damage.
Buster trades better then Jump and handles Shield better. Overall it's actually not very unsafe at all.

To put it in perspective again, 27% damage increase relative to your opponent, with improved follow up potential at the cost of greater KB (essentially) while you also deal better shield pressure.

 

[NairWizard]

That's what he can do. Now what can't he do.

Shulk gets combo'd/juggled pretty hard, doesn't he? Pressured up close? Camped out decently by slow moving projectiles (If you try and outprioritize, you're committing to a move that can be punished). Shulk at a disadvantage doesn't have a lot of ways to reset unless he can get out a monado art to switch to jump/speed. Everyone is focusing on his strengths and describing the drawbacks as "easily managed" but I'm just not seeing it. In buster mode, the drawback is real and you will feel it if someone takes advantage of it. Buster mode may be dumb offensively, but defensively you're in a lot of trouble.

You don't get pressured up close because jab 1 is very good. N-air has very little landing lag and rising FH f-air autocancels, so you can cancel out projectiles pretty easily with your huge disjointed weapon. For instance when Pikachu is Thunderjolting, he often tries to use the delayed hit of the Tjolt to get a grab. But Shulk isn't going to let that happen. He can just use safe fastfall n-airs in place, and the n-air will both kill the tjolt and prevent Pikachu from jabbing him. If Pikachu blocks you can jab out of it because fastfall n-air is, well, fast. Shulk is kind of like Ike in this regard; you would think that he does bad in close range, but 1) jab and 2) good luck getting in close.

He gets combo'd but you have to watch out for his huge aerials like landing b-air or aerial n-air. In return he combos you too, and with additional range to boot which means he doesn't end up in combo situations himself that often. Offstage, to edgeguard Shulk you need to get past his huge disjoint (this was brought up when we discussed Pikachu), even though I agree that his recovery is kind of poor. In return, he edgeguards you just as well due to Jump. He's no Pikachu because his edgeguarding attempts are telegraphed (f-air or b-air), but even if they're telegraphed they're enormous, so most characters can't just avoid for sure. Some characters have it really awful vs. all that range in Jump Mode. What are you going to do as Ness or Diddy when Jump Shulk pounces on you with a f-air offstage?

Defensively you're in barely any trouble at all in Buster Mode. It's not even a disadvantage. Let's see what Buster Mode offers:

+40% damage on attacks
-knockback on attacks
+13% damage received

the 40% damage on attacks is added to your base attack power which means additional shield pushback/stun, so all of your tilts and aerials get safer.
the 13% damage boost your opponent receives is actually pathetic and doesn't even add to his shield and pushback, because it doesn't modify his base damage (I'm pretty sure). It's like, a 10% f-air goes to being an 11% f-air.
Meanwhile, a 10% Shulk move becomes a 14% Shulk move.
Shulk's 10% move becomes like a Ganon f-air in terms of shield safety, whereas his opponent's attack hardly changes (no additional shield safety, barely any extra damage).

The -knockback actually lets you combo more easily, and you don't want to kill in Buster anyway, so if anything that's a positive.

Buster has basically no drawbacks, except that it's not Speed.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think edgeguarding Shulk can be pretty interesting honestly, he has disjoint but his aerials are really...weird. Like, slow and wide. Would characters with strong air mobility be able to edgeguard him efficiently? (Extreme example: Jigglypuff weaving in and out)

 

[Jabejazz]

Do you want me to start talking about Brawl Marth's neutral air?
Neutral air in that game is better than entire characters in versatility, damage, safety, kill power, range.
Out of everything that Marth had nerfed transitioning into smash 4, neutral air got gutted the hardest by far.

Please no, I want to sleep tonight.

I think edgeguarding Shulk can be pretty interesting honestly, he has disjoint but his aerials are really...weird. Like, slow and wide. Would characters with strong air mobility be able to edgeguard him efficiently? (Extreme example: Jigglypuff weaving in and out)

Maybe, if you can guess where Jump Shulk will end up being.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I wanna let Shulk (and the game) settle a bit before I go definitive on him. He's definitely good but I want to see how it pans out. I do think that he has clear weaknesses albeit his strengths definitely outnumber them in the grand scheme, as of right now anyways.

I think edgeguarding him is fascinating in that it's really prediction based but if it works he's screwed cause his recovery distance is pitiful and when Jump Monado wears off after he's knocked far back it's done.

Honestly he's probably one of the more engaging MUs (if he's in top tier he's the most engaging one there IMO)

 

[NairWizard]

I think edgeguarding Shulk can be pretty interesting honestly, he has disjoint but his aerials are really...weird. Like, slow and wide. Would characters with strong air mobility be able to edgeguard him efficiently? (Extreme example: Jigglypuff weaving in and out)

If he's not in Jump, then sure. Of his aerials, f-air is the one that you have to watch out for or reverse b-air with Monado cancel. Disjointed characters are more difficult to edgeguard in general (as mentioned during the Pikachu discussion but I think that Jigglypuff has an easier time in the air against disjointed characters, though she'd love Thunder/Thunderjolt), but Shulk has one thing very edgeguardable about him--he doesn't really autosnap the ledge with his up-b. He can easily be f-smashed as he's trying to grab the ledge if he misses it.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I think edgeguarding Shulk can be pretty interesting honestly, he has disjoint but his aerials are really...weird. Like, slow and wide. Would characters with strong air mobility be able to edgeguard him efficiently? (Extreme example: Jigglypuff weaving in and out)

I've mentioned this before.
Outside of Jab 1 and grabs Shulk doesn't have anything (well maybe specials???) that comes out before Frame 10.
What this actually means is that he doesn't break immediate pressure on him very well. So in the case of Jigglypuff, if Jigglypuffs doing her patented F-air you to the blast zone string? Shulks options against that are limited, he doesn't have any quick response at all, his fastest aerial is frame 13.

Which is fine given his exceptional range. What this does mean though is top of the line air games, can put on exceptional pressure. I don't mean throwing out some D-throw U-air Diddy crap, I mean aerial strings.

Granted with Jumps Air speed being among the best, and Air slash having strong vertical height in co-ordinance with Jump, not including MAS custom which gives him the highest possible recovery (but the auto snap window is really high into the animation) he can be fairly flexible in the air. AAS does auto snap completely on second press, but its a weaker recovery option as well, though it has interesting slide mechanics on platform stages and is a considerable Kill and occasional OOS option.

Who would say Shulk has no weaknesses? He wasn't made ridiculous its just given his buff the level of reward on the bulk of his options can't be denied. Plus speed has always been stellar but with that improved reward it changes crap on his hits, it means less reads need to be done in general which also decrease margin of error overall and set up early KO options.

I said it before. He's a swordsman, who gets to be among the fastest characters in the game.
Range and Speed go hand in hand. If you make Marth faster, his real sphere of effect increases. Speed shulk has a larger range than his abilities indicate because of his movement speed. He creates more offensive pressure because of his ability to close distance for a grab, he can follow up after his grabs so you respect his grab. Given you respect his grab this alleviates pressures on his aerials and tilts which in all lets him be more offensive.

 

[Shaya]

Please no, I want to sleep tonight.

Well too bad, I'll make it snappy.
It auto cancelled on frame 23 and the hitbox on it ended on frame 21. On block, tipper neutral air was +1 on shield and untippered was +5. The amount of characters he shared such an ability with (to have frame advantage on aerials) were Peach and Zero Suit.
It otherwise fast fallen was -3 and -7 on shield. This was also pretty unique to the upper echelons of the cast, really only shared by himself, peach, zss, wario (most characters were looking -10 at best, mk's stuff was worse)
It did 18% tippered and 12% untippered, it's now 11%/8%.
The later the move hit you on the second strike, the more kill power it had. Getting hit by the second 'motion' of his second swing was his second strongest kill move, able to kill MK without DI centre stage at like 80%.
It beat spot dodges, it beat shields, there were hitboxes for it all over his body as well as his sword, rolling into him would get hit as well.

 

[NairWizard]

Somehow I still think that Rosalina n-air prepatch was the best n-air in the history of smash, but Marth's is a close second.

 

[Luco]

The later the move hit you on the second strike, the more kill power it had. Getting hit by the second 'motion' of his second swing was his second strongest kill move, able to kill MK without DI centre stage at like 80%.

This is my second favourite part.

I'm not quite sure when it comes to Shulk. I think he's really, really good; though top 5 surprises me. I know Trela has been going very well as Shulk though.

Speaking of which @ NairWizard I went to the shulk boards to ask something but if you happen to have the answer I would be eternally grateful.

 

[Jabejazz]

I wanna let Shulk (and the game) settle a bit before I go definitive on him. He's definitely good but I want to see how it pans out. I do think that he has clear weaknesses albeit his strengths definitely outnumber them in the grand scheme, as of right now anyways.

I think edgeguarding him is fascinating in that it's really prediction based but if it works he's screwed cause his recovery distance is pitiful and when Jump Monado wears off after he's knocked far back it's done.

Honestly he's probably one of the more engaging MUs (if he's in top tier he's the most engaging one there IMO)

Definitely agree.

The same way he's arguably the most complex character in this game to play, he's probably the most complex to fight against.
His weaknesses are fairly obvious as they lie in his Monado Arts, the same way you need to learn what to do with each Art, you'll need to know what to do against them, what combo/string works at what % with any given art etc.

Seeing as I got bopped in my last tournament against one (he wasn't necessarily good, I'm just really bad at this game), my focus shifted to this guy.

Speed Monado pivot grabs are the truth.

How the **** do I keep all my frame data in mind, I'm a ****ing wizard that's how

Thanks dad.

 

[Shaya]

Thanks dad.

I have a hard time forgetting anything specific I've ever read or had to think about more than three to four times.
Except in things which are important.
Obviously.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Shulk is probably one of the more fun matchups for a character that may or may not be absurdly strong IMO. Requires effort from both sides and is generally crazy, honestly an intriguing character that I might think about if I ever stop being mediocre.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

In some respects there are too much focus on Monado arts as I believe I mentioned in the Vs Shulk thread (did I make that post or was it left as a draft?).
There are core aspects of his kit that straight up don't change...activation and cooldown. These will remain relevant regardless the Art.

There are plenty of good characters (so far) to discuss. However Shulks one to look out for and one of those I'm betting on for overall strength.

Villager, Gunner, Rosaluma, Shulk, Marth (he is still relevant), Pit, Ike (???), Diddy, Sheik, Ness, Robin, Yoshi, Brawler, Falcon, Mario, Rob, Lucario, Fox, Peach, ZSS?
All come off as relevant right now, well Gunner & Brawler less-so given arbitrary rulings holding them back.
Then we've still got (T)Link, Jigglypuff, MK, Megaman, Pacman, Charizard (srs).

Everyone else is still relevant currently as potential threats. Swordfighter isn't going to be polarizing at all, but he probably still has decent MU's against some relevant characters.

 

[Jabejazz]

In some respects there are too much focus on Monado arts as I believe I mentioned in the Vs Shulk thread (did I make that post or was it left as a draft?).
There are core aspects of his kit that straight up don't change...activation and cooldown. These will remain relevant regardless the Art.

Arts are usually what we need to learn since Shulk generally always is in a stance at any given moment, no?
There are constants in the Shulk MU regardless of the stance, granted. But if I grab Shulk in whatever stance he is at whatever % he might be, I want to know what the hell will happen to him after I down throw him.

-How much damage will I deal?
-How far is he gonna fly?
-Can I send him offstage and edgeguard him reliably?
-Can he really feel my RAR'd bair?

Answers to these questions, and much more, in "Holy **** that MU is deep."

I have a hard time forgetting anything specific I've ever read or had to think about more than three to four times.
Except in things which are important.
Obviously.

Legit jealous. Terrible when it comes to numbers.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Nope? Well this is just me and im still developing however Im not compelled to be in any art by necessity.
Now I will put speed on pretty much any chance I get since I believe in Speed completely however when Speed isn't a factor, I do rep Vanilla. Now Vanilla & Speed take the same damage & KB however Speed has less jump height and better air speed & I believe gravity so dealing with him in the air is still different to a degree.

Vanillas still important however especially given its the base, and you're going to find different interpretations on Shulk. Just like you will find different fruit users with Pacman, offensive/defensive Villagers, etc.

 

[NairWizard]

Legit jealous. Terrible when it comes to numbers.

You're not in bad company. A friend of mine said the exact same thing about remembering numbers as a Harvard math major. Genius when it comes to algebra. Can't remember the date to save his life.

 

[san.]

Move over Pika, making Mii Gunner my next secondary. I'm finding more stuff with this character almost every time I play with him/her. Learned on the Gunner boards how you can edge cancel with flame pillar, meaning you can pivot flame pillar at the edge of a platform, and it'll cancel, so you'd be able to reverse fair off of a platform. You can also do silly things like multi-B reverse with the grenade and get ridiculous air and ground momentum with fair.

Only obvious "weakness" that I can see is that damage from projectiles is mediocre unless you go in and use your other attacks and that it's slightly difficult to get a kill from a projectile setup. 10 seconds of camping can probably be invalidated with a good approach from a combo-heavy character. That fits my playstyle just fine.

 

[Luco]

Those wavebounces be craaaaaaazy. Reatreating Fair is the most obnoxious thing in this universe, and he doesn't even have to go full retreating mode with it. He can be moving towards you, fire Fair and shift his direction and suddenly he's going backwards at 10000km/h so good luck to you ever punishing him for that 5%.

It's more complicated than that I know but.... ughhh....

 

[san.]

Those wavebounces be craaaaaaazy. Reatreating Fair is the most obnoxious thing in this universe, and he doesn't even have to go full retreating mode with it. He can be moving towards you, fire Fair and shift his direction and suddenly he's going backwards at 10000km/h so good luck to you ever punishing him for that 5%.

It's more complicated than that I know but.... ughhh....

It's not. It's that easy. Landing fair also combos into another fair.