Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics

[Firefoxx]

Cross slash seems pretty unreliable outside of limit break. lvl 3 training mode pit was easily falling out of it at like 100%

 

[TTTTTsd]

Also Protip. Cloud's Bair, USE IT ON GROUNDED PEOPLE WHEN YOU CAN. It puts people into a slide where you can combo them after VERY easily. Bair > what you want at like, low-mid %s depending on character weight.

Cloud feels awesome, his recovery is probably gonna gate him though. But for the most part? Feels good man.

Blade Beam isn't very good. FSmash is RIDICULOUSLY strong for a move that doesn't need to be sweetspotted.

Cross Slash is a good recovery stall if you aren't really low down, I'd recommend using it before you pop off Climhazzard unless you have Limit offstage.

Dair has SO MUCH ACTIVE FRAMES and such a generous AC window from a fullhop. Lord.

 

[bc1910]

Kinda thinking I was right in my assumption that Cloud would be pretty tame. I don't think he's anything to write home about apart from limit break absurdity. And limit break IS absurd, I concede. The down B in particular kills at around 70% and can be done out of a dash.

The rest of him though? Meh. Awful recovery. Tilts stop comboing at pretty low percents. Uair is nice, you can kinda use it as a launcher because it has low landing lag and a good hitbox in front of Cloud. Landing lag in general is pretty low but he has no landing mixups. Good ground mobility. Dsmash pretty safe to throw out and whiff with but you don't want to hit a shield with the first hit. Throws are all pretty bad, no combo or kill throw and damage isn't very high, good pummel though. His projectile is good too, it's fairly spammable.

Just my first impressions after a few minutes of messing around. I'll wait before fully settling on an opinion. Right now, I think he's cool, but not terribly strong.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Kinda thinking I was right in my assumption that Cloud would be pretty tame. I don't think he's anything to write home about apart from limit break absurdity. And limit break IS absurd, I concede. The down B in particular kills at around 70% and can be done out of a dash.

The rest of him though? Meh. Awful recovery. Tilts stop comboing at pretty low percents. Uair is nice, you can kinda use it as a launcher because it has low landing lag and a good hitbox in front of Cloud. Landing lag in general is pretty low but he has no landing mixups. Good ground mobility. Dsmash pretty safe to throw out and whiff with but you don't want to hit a shield with the first hit. Throws are all pretty bad, no combo or kill throw and damage isn't very high, good pummel though. His projectile is good too, it's fairly spammable.

Just my first impressions after a few minutes of messing around. I'll wait before fully settling on an opinion. Right now, I think he's cool, but not terribly strong.

Personally right now I think he's better than Roy and Shulk as far as Swordsmen goes, but this is just initial impressions.

ALSO WORTH MENTIONING. His Utilt is RIDICULOUS, it chains into itself, super fast, nice hitbox from the looks of things....

His damage per hit is also REALLY good on like, everything but Jab and Nair from what I can tell.

Also if people are above you and Uair won't hit fast enough, mash Nair. Really good for small combos that are vertical.

 

[Nu~]

Cloud has a N-airplane that could put shulk to shame.

I love his Fair when used to space people out. Retreating Fair is pretty safe.

 

[Y2Kay]

Cloud fair seems pretty nice tho. Would that help to counter edgeguarding at all?

P.S. It's Wolf's funeral. I'll give the whole thing back to you tomorrow @Gheb_01

 

[TTTTTsd]

Just posting more Cloud stuff.
- Nair hits literally everywhere around him when edgeguarding. Like, even right behind. SO FAST.
- He can walljump. Use this with Dair when you can, it's disgusting.

 

[Ffamran]

- He can walljump. Use this with Dair when you can, it's disgusting.

Oh yeah! That's one thing I wondered if people would immediately think Cloud could do since Advent Children and Dissidia had him wall run, wall jump, and do all sorts of wall stuff. That's 2 swordsmen who can wall jump: Cloud and Toon Link... Er... 3 if you count Young Link as a separate character to Toon Link and not a "predecessor".

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yo! Finishing Touch is not significantly weaker in the air compared to something like KO Punch!

Damn man, well, guess I found the only swordsman I'm gonna play in this game from now on.

 

[Y2Kay]

It be scary to even touch cloud once he has limit break. Maybe projectile users will have a cool advantage of being able to safely attack when his limit has been reached

 

[Zelder]

I don't think Cloud is going to be a tournament mainstay solely from how easy it is to gimp him, but it doesn't matter: spiking someone with a fair is the most right feeling in this world.

edit: I don't know if this makes sense, but Cloud has the kind of recovery that I think Ryu should have.

double edit: oh my, the people in the king k rool thread seem upset

 

[Y2Kay]

Now here's is something interesting: Should cloud be charging his limits or edgeguard with his amazing aerials when opponents are offstage?

 

[Mario766]

Depends on the situation, more often than not charging limit is gonna be the safer option.

 

[Y2Kay]

Fair and Dair are both great spikes and nair is so meaty......mmmmm

ehr- anyway..

Lucas has won the award of Patch 1.1.3 winner, hands down. Now how much of an improvement do you think this is to his meta? You guys think he will be the next cinderella story like Ike?

 

[Mario766]

I'm doubtful. Even if those FAF numbers on grab are correct, which I slightly doubt.

 

[TTTTTsd]

When someone's offstage Cloud should be charging Limit.

When he has Full Limit he's amazing, way better mobility, just general improvements. You can go out SUPER deep to edgeguard as well when your limit is high.

Yes his recovery is pretty bad but I think he's solid regardless. He won't be a tournament mainstay like Ryu but I think he's decent overall.

Also his Nair is RIDICULOUS offstage. It comes out so fast! That coverage! It kills too! Jeez....it also has low recovery, great for if you don't have a full limit gauge.

 

[Y2Kay]

When someone's offstage Cloud should be charging Limit.

When he has Full Limit he's amazing, way better mobility, just general improvements. You can go out SUPER deep to edgeguard as well when your limit is high.

Yes his recovery is pretty bad but I think he's solid regardless. He won't be a tournament mainstay like Ryu but I think he's decent overall.

Also his Nair is RIDICULOUS offstage. It comes out so fast! That coverage! It kills too! Jeez....it also has low recovery, great for if you don't have a full limit gauge.

What actually are his stat boosts with limit full?

and LOL, Bowser's up throw -> up air is legit good. He could move up a little on the tier list, but only a little.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Also worth noting- Limit Break Blade Beam is by far the best projectile for edgeguarding in the game since the move lingers and can kill insanely early.

 

[Ghostbone]

Charging limit will almost always be the best use of cloud's time after hitting an opponent off-stage.
Try getting up from the ledge against finishing touch lmao.

 

[C0rvus]

When someone's offstage Cloud should be charging Limit.

When he has Full Limit he's amazing, way better mobility, just general improvements. You can go out SUPER deep to edgeguard as well when your limit is high.

Yes his recovery is pretty bad but I think he's solid regardless. He won't be a tournament mainstay like Ryu but I think he's decent overall.

Also his Nair is RIDICULOUS offstage. It comes out so fast! That coverage! It kills too! Jeez....it also has low recovery, great for if you don't have a full limit gauge.

What does having Limit give you passively? I couldn't tell while playing with him.

 

[TTTTTsd]

What does having Limit give you passively? I couldn't tell while playing with him.

You get higher ground and air speed by a bit. You'll notice once you start moving thoroughly and watching. It's slight, but it's there.

 

[Raikaru]

Lets talk about Dark Pit really quick. This man's side B kills at 90% at the ledge! Pit no longer has the side B over him.

 

[Ffamran]

Two words: Blade Beam. It has very low recovery and a massive hitbox which we could tell from the initial trailer for Cloud, but guess what else? It hits below the freaking stage. Fox and Falco are not going to have fun times bypassing this with their Illusion and Phantasm. I know Falco won't since he doesn't have a hitbox in front or for the last half of the damn move.

 

[meleebrawler]

Two words: Blade Beam. It has very low recovery and a massive hitbox which we could tell from the initial trailer for Cloud, but guess what else? It hits below the freaking stage. Fox and Falco are not going to have fun times bypassing this with their Illusion and Phantasm. I know Falco won't since he doesn't have a hitbox in front or for the last half of the damn move.

Love how it's weaker in the air to catch people who thought they'd be smart by constantly shorthopping for wider beams.

 

[LancerStaff]

Lets talk about Dark Pit really quick. This man's side B kills at 90% at the ledge! Pit no longer has the side B over him.

Still worse then Pit overall though. Electroshock's good but not something to be used regularly. Arrows are reliable damage.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Current general impression of Cloud from the Ike Skype:

meh

Not enough killing power outside of Limit Break and Fsmash. Jab 1 is horrible. Recovery makes Aether look good. Uair is great, Nair doesn't hit in front of him fast enough, Bair is good. Can't go off stage at all. Not very much reward per hit as it currently stands. Kinda like Brawl Ike in that regard, but instead of having an amazing Jab Cloud has some move with good recovery time.

My personal opinion is that he'll probably be top of mid tier range, unless we discover something important about him later on.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Dthrow techchases for Cloud. It's insane.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Current general impression of Cloud from the Ike Skype:

meh

Not enough killing power outside of Limit Break and Fsmash. Jab 1 is horrible. Recovery makes Aether look good. Uair is great, Nair doesn't hit in front of him fast enough, Bair is good. Can't go off stage at all. Not very much reward per hit as it currently stands. Kinda like Brawl Ike in that regard, but instead of having an amazing Jab Cloud has some move with good recovery time.

My personal opinion is that he'll probably be top of mid tier range, unless we discover something important about him later on.

I only have one question. Why are people not crossing up with Nair lol? Just out of curiosity.

I personally think as it stands he's the 2nd best Swordsman with a long sword in the game, topped only by Ike. Around the top of mid tier/very low end of high tier right now but we haven't really scraped the barrel with him yet. Still think he's pretty solid though.

Also DSmash is pretty solid for kills, it's very positional but it does its job well as a reversal/poke punish.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Shulk got interesting buffs. He might be sorta viable now, depending on how they pan out of course.

 

[kenniky]

Cloud doesn't seem very good imo

he has bad frame data, bad recovery, minimal combo game, horrendous grab/throw game, and pathetic OoS options. Has to really struggle to get kills too.

He has some good traits, such as uair, dtilt, Limit Break stuff (from initial observations) but I don't think it's enough to get him even out of the bottom third of the cast.

Honestly it seems like he's Shulk but somehow worse.

 

[adom4]

Cloud doesn't seem very good imo

he has bad frame data, bad recovery, minimal combo game, horrendous grab/throw game, and pathetic OoS options. Has to really struggle to get kills too.

He has some good traits, such as uair, dtilt, Limit Break stuff (from initial observations) but I don't think it's enough to get him even out of the bottom third of the cast.

Up-B & D-tilt OOS are pretty good, his hitboxes in general are pretty good as well (especially on Nair, U-air & Dair).

 

[Sonicninja115]

I think Cloud is a very grounded character. The air isn't really his friend, except for SH aerials.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Cloud doesn't seem very good imo

he has bad frame data, bad recovery, minimal combo game, horrendous grab/throw game, and pathetic OoS options. Has to really struggle to get kills too.

He has some good traits, such as uair, dtilt, Limit Break stuff (from initial observations) but I don't think it's enough to get him even out of the bottom third of the cast.

Honestly it seems like he's Shulk but somehow worse.

No I'm absolutely positive Shulk is much worse than this character LOL.

Cloud has Utilt which is also amazing, much better mobility that isn't temporary, better FAF on like everything but jab, and yeah his recovery is ass but he has really nice autocancelling aerials which include Nair (which is STUPID good for this). His frame data is really only bad in a handful of spots (mostly Jab from what I can tell.) He also has DSmash which is REALLY good and FSmash is nice if you can land it, not too stressful to hit with thankfully. Charging Limit is hella easy too if you do it every time you send someone flying.

P. sure Shulk is worse. I'm very deftly positive he is. If Cloud is bad because of bad frame data, what does that make Shulk I wonder?

 

[DblCrest]

Kirby got quite some really minimal Knockback buffs to his Smashes, Fair and Bair so he can take stocks earlier than usual though it's not much of a huge change . He might actually have a kill confirm off throw now however especially if we add rage into the mix. o.o

Cloud I'm finding pretty solid though his recovery really hurts him. Some times I wonder whether to throw Blade beams or just charge limit :x

 

[FallenHero]

Since I don't own a Wii U and I won't be playing with Cloud until probably this Friday, how is he? From some of the streams I've seen of people playing him he looks decent even though he seems to have a horrible recovery.

Also I was angry AF that we got ANOTHER FE character and it is one that I don't think anyone even really cares about (at least until FE Fates is released outside of Japan). I never really wanted Bayonetta, but there are a ton of characters I never really wanted to be in Smash that I thought looked amazing and unique when they were announced like I felt with Robin, Ryu, Bowser Jr., and now Bayonetta. I can't wait until Bayonetta is released, but for Chirron I feel like they should've just gone with the 2nd most voted ballot character (don't know who it was, but I REALLY wanted Shovel Knight in this game. Also RIP Wolf.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Since I don't own a Wii U and I won't be playing with Cloud until probably this Friday, how is he? From some of the streams I've seen of people playing him he looks decent even though he seems to have a horrible recovery.

Also I was angry AF that we got ANOTHER FE character and it is one that I don't think anyone even really cares about (at least until FE Fates is released outside of Japan). I never really wanted Bayonetta, but there are a ton of characters I never really wanted to be in Smash that I thought looked amazing and unique when they were announced like I felt with Robin, Ryu, Bowser Jr., and now Bayonetta. I can't wait until Bayonetta is released, but for Chirron I feel like they should've just gone with the 2nd most voted ballot character (don't know who it was, but I REALLY wanted Shovel Knight in this game. Also RIP Wolf.

IMO (I've been posting here a lot but w/e) his recovery is really his biggest weakness, it's gonna be what stops him from becoming amazing. I think he ranges from good to great, it's too early to know yet, but I can't see him falling below the middle end of the roster (I suspect that's as low as he'll go).

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Can't Cloud cancel his dash into w/e by using Limit Break twice?

That'll probably become a large part of his gameplan considering it doesn't sound hard to do. I haven't touched the character yet, though, so I don't know.

 

[Raikaru]

Why does it honestly even matter what series he's from in the Competitive Discussion? Like seriously he could be from Mario as long as he's good.

 

[Ffamran]

Now I'm wondering about the applications of Climhazzard as an edgeguard and out of shield tool... Also, I think you can tech the slam part of Climhazzard. All coming from the victim side of things since I'm messing around on FG to see if I can fight as many Clouds as I can.

 

[san.]

I feel that Mii Swordfighter is better than Cloud from my initial impressions. Cloud's kit is overall decent, but there are a few key things wrong with him:

-Extremely poor combo escape options. Fair is like frame 16 and starts above him. SideB isn't fast enough. This means you can trap him landing from tiny hits easily.
-Extremely poor upB. Not only does it not snap, he lingers in the air a bit and it doesn't have much distance. You can just throw out a spike hitbox near the ledge and it'll probably hit, with lenient timing.
-No easy-mode kill setups. You kind of need to make some commitments to kill. This puts pressure on really utilizing limit break for killing, but then you also need it for recovery... Really tough tradeoff.

Cloud seems pretty nice at walling single hits with some nice random quick moves like dtilt when the opponent over-extends. I just don't think that and limit break are enough vs. a few large weaknesses.

I think his jab is actually decent. There is little time between jab 1, 2, and 3, and you can mix up the timing. it's a decent anti-air too.