Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics

[Knife8193]

MK kill confirm works on everyone

Greninja?

 

[Djmarcus44]

To be honest with you, when a character is so underplayed that i can barely answer the question of why the character is that bad aside from " He's just a superheavy " ( As in, he has the flaws that many character of this weight class have ) , i'd rather just say this character is in the realm of Low tier just because of lackluster results & as some of the users in here already mentionned, "lackluster top & high tier matchups". Aside from that, I don't know anything about Zard except the basics of the character, hence why i'd usually retire from any discussion about Charizard's viability
When you dig a bit deeper into people's thoughts on Charizard, you'll soon notice a lack of knowledge on the character, even the basics such as all the pros & cons are sometimes unknown., and you can't really blame them, since it's not their fault fo not knowing the character when he's so obscure in the metagame.
This may lead into bad stigmas & misconceptions that will put the character lower than he should be.
That's what i've been experiencing for a while as a Doc main, and it still happens ( arguments over Doc's superior edgeguarding abilities over Mario, the niche of the character in the metagame, the list goes on )

As a Gunner main, I am definitely no stranger to this problem. Even after ROM's great performance at Smash@SCU and his good performance at Genesis 3, mii gunner still has to deal with being perceived as a bad character due to circular reasoning (the "mii gunner is bad because mii gunner is bad" argument). It also doesn't help with matchup discussions since most people either don't have matchup experience with gunner or don't care to discuss the matchup. Hopefully more exposure will come to these obscure characters with time.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Metaknight is one of those characters that is a monster when he's optimized. Like Fox, Sheik, and ZSS, this character can bat you around until chunks of your brain fall out your nose if the player has a strong knowledge of character specific % knockback and set ups. Like the others I listed, the chances of gimping let alone edgeguarding him is fairly slim in most circumstances so that common dilema of most characters of "oh crap, how do I get back to the stage" is largely irrelevant, allowing their respective players to primarily focus their efforts on the stage because that worry won't be there unless they severely screw up off stage.

 

[Baskerville]

Absolute Destruction coming from Nairo.
Christ.

 

[Ghostbone]

Greninja?

Also Bowser Jr.

 

[Y2Kay]

I think Charizard is solid (mediocre) in this game. He has a lot of cool stuff, but strangely enough he's "too honest". What do I mean by that? Sakurai gave DK and Bowser ridiculous combo throws that can rack up 30% and more just from one grab, while his is so tame, and it bothers me SO MUCH.

This notion that Zard is bottom 5 is dumb, still. That notion is really outdated, and it bothers me. He has a lot more going for him than that. uggh.

He's very similar to in that if he was fully optimized he'd still be like mid at best. He'd be no secret top tier (obviously) Character loyalty is the only way his meta will progress and he just doesn't have meme fuel of the likes of to keep it going. it's really sad tbh.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Also Bowser Jr.

This match up is skewed in Metaknight's favor anyways so I'd argue that this is largely irrelevant. Metaknight doesn't need the kill confirm to keep Bowser Jr in the air like a volleyball the whole match.

 

[Aaron1997]

I think we found another legal stage. I need to see more of Baya and Coren to judge.
Edit: THEY ARE GETTING RELESED ON FEB 3RD

 

[Smog Frog]

alright. we finally have some footage to go off of for , even if its not much.

doesnt have bad enough frame data. also that side b looks like a good quick landing option. i was paying attention to more than ; really seems to be the threat we make her out to be. maybe it'll be like and she'll be light as a balloon?

 

[Dr.Smex]

Did witch time trigger from an air dodge? that's kinda ridiculous.

 

[Wintropy]

I think Charizard is solid (mediocre) in this game. He has a lot of cool stuff, but strangely enough he's "too honest". What do I mean by that? Sakurai gave DK and Bowser ridiculous combo throws that can rack up 30% and more just from one grab, while his is so tame, and it bothers me SO MUCH.

This notion that Zard is bottom 5 is dumb, still. That notion is really outdated, and it bothers me. He has a lot more going for him than that. uggh.

He's very similar to in that if he was fully optimized he'd still be like mid at best. He'd be no secret top tier (obviously) Character loyalty is the only way his meta will progress and he just doesn't have meme fuel of the likes of to keep it going. it's really sad tbh.

I guess Sakurai feels he isn't of the same ilk as his super-heavy brethren? Maybe he thinks Charizard is supposed to be more mixup and aerial-oriented (despite his morally reprehensible airspeed) than a straight-up grappler. Most Charizards I've seen have a decent grasp of their air game and heavy punishes with his specials, while DK and Bowser are more interested in poking and grabbing to press home the advantage.

I have no idea, I'm struggling to think of the design philosophy behind DK and Bowser being equipped with solid grab conversions while Zard has nothing of the sort. My gut instinct is that he may be buffed similarly in future (Bowser's buff didn't come a few months until after DK's, despite being the same in principle), but that's totally grasping at straws.

It's a shame he's outclassed by the other heavies in the important respects, he's a pretty diverse character in terms of options and he could fill an interesting niche if he had something unique going for him. Definitely better than people give him credit for, but still not impressive enough to stand out.

 

[Radical Larry]

alright. we finally have some footage to go off of for , even if its not much.

doesnt have bad enough frame data. also that side b looks like a good quick landing option. i was paying attention to more than ; really seems to be the threat we make her out to be. maybe it'll be like and she'll be light as a balloon?

Got a to the footage?

 

[FlynnCL]

Is Sakurai himself commentating possibly the most volatile match-up in Smash 4? Death combos from both players all over the place.

I'm laughing so hard.

Is this the end for us?

 

[FallofBrawl]

I'm so scared for MK and ZSS now.

 

[Amadeus9]

Rest in peace Metaknight, nerfs incoming.

We were literally all screaming for abadango to throw the match

 

[zeldasmash]

With Sakurai there, Meta Knight better pray that he doesn't get touched by the patch.

 

[David Viran]

With Sakurai there, Meta Knight better pray that he doesn't get touched by the patch.

The patch comes on Wednesday. I doubt this tournament had any weight in balance patch decisions.

 

[Das Koopa]

There's not enough time in 4 days for them to nerf lol

 

[Ghostbone]

There's not enough time in 4 days for them to nerf lol

>MK uair has 8 frames extra endlag

One number changed, combo is dead.

 

[Amadeus9]

MK uair bkb increased, kbg decreased. Thats it. RIP MK

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm so scared for MK and ZSS now.

Meanwhile the rest of the Smash fanbase watching and thinking about ZSS getting nerfed:

Spoiler

In all seriousness, I think there's going to be a big uproar if Sheik and ZSS go completely untouched again.

 

[Aaron1997]

Heres some gameplay not from the stream,

 

[Y2Kay]

All these paranoid MK mains freaking out is hilarious.

 

[Djent]

Spoiler: (95% certain) NicoNico Tokaigi Results

1) Abadango (lost to Nairo)
2) Nairo (lost to Abadango twice)
3) Komorikiri (lost to Abadango and Nairo)
4) Shu (lost to Komorikiri and Nairo)
5) Choco (lost to Abadango and Shu)
5) SH (lost to Shu and Nairo)
7) Ranai (lost to Komorikiri and SH)

I missed most of winners but fortunately caught most of losers. Can anyone confirm SH > Ranai for me? Seems like that would have had to happen if the bracket was set up like I think it was. Alas, I didn't get a time to capture and translate it.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Heres some cool footage if you guys are too excited to wait until Wednesday analyze Corrin and Bayo:

'd

 

[zeldasmash]

Heres some gameplay not from the stream,

Bayonetta sounds awkward when she gets hit.........

They both look great though and i can't wait until Wednesday!

 

[Y2Kay]

Heres some gameplay not from the stream,

It sounds like Bayonetta is saying YAAAAS everytime she gets hit

that needs to be patched out pronto

 

[Sonicninja115]

Corrin is looking really good. Bayonetta' combos are pretty good though. They both might be viable. Though Bayonetta might just require more practice.

 

[Halifax?]

Judging from recent results I'd say the true determinant of being top tier is having yello/light brown in your stock icon.

 

[Big-Cat]

Bayonetta can get about 30% off a combo so that's REALLY good. Else she would royally suck.

 

[thehard]

If anyone here has a handle on Japanese I'd love to know anything interesting said by Sakurai at the tournament.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Bayo seems to have really good landing and approach options. Her smash attacks seem almost as awkward as Palutena's though but I guess that's what Witch Time is for.

 

[JesterJaded]

Corrin is looking surprisingly lagless for the amount of range they have. Bayonetta's combos are just as bonkers as we suspected. I'm excited for both of them.

 

[Aaron1997]

Even thou this FFA who gives a ****

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Even thou this FFA who gives a ****

Looks like I'll be fishing for those side b ko's off stage.

The move killed Marth at 100. We take those.

 

[Jucchan]

So apparently Marth is getting buffed big-time, his tipper fair does 13% now!? It only did 10% before.
Edit: It's 12%+freshness bonus

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Y2Kay]

Even thou this FFA who gives a ****

Dear god. Kamui's victory pose as a dragon was the coolest thing I have ever seen.

 

[FlynnCL]

Obviously it's silly to assume accurate frame data from videos without the fighter not being released yet, but if anyone wants to have a general idea of Bayonetta's start-up the 60fps 1v1 does a decent job. This is for her jab.

 

[Wintropy]

Corrin is very spry for a character with so many strong disjoints. Bayo's air combos reminds me of ZSS's - I wonder if we'll have another top-off pop-off killer?

Very excited for them! Balance patch is gonna be good too~

 

[Y2Kay]

you're welcome