Well this is getting nowhere....... So.....
What do people think of Mr. Game & Watch currently after Regi's crew battle? I personally think he went up from low-mid to mid tier. He has good recovery, good aierals, a good move to absorb certain projectiles, good jab, good dash attack, and great combos, but not many throw combos (Mr. Game & Watch uses other moves for combos) or kill throws, trouble KOing, and bad... something else that I can't think of, I think it was range but not sure.
he has good aerials yes, although his uair should reliably connect, and it bugs me that it doesnt, and i dont even play the character, but bucket has, imo, a very detrimentall flaw, and thats its endlag. in that sense i think it should work similar to psi magnet, it can keep its horrendous endlag if you dont absorb a projectile, but you should be able to cancel the endlag if you do absorb a projectile(or have much less endlag). that stops it from being a reliable anti projectile move imo. he actually has an amazing throw game off of his dthrow, although it is di dependant to a certain extent, kill throw is where it gets difficult because basically he has the same throw 4 times, with slightly changed trajectories, but its to the point where i would say gnw doesnt even have a fthrow or a bthrow
so not only is there no kill throw, he doesnt even have a throw which sends them off stage where he could use his good edgeguarding game to at least seal the stock that way :/ trouble koing is a problem to a certain extent, and fixing his uair would help with that, but his usmash is a very good usmash(though i was surprised to see regi hardly throw them out at all, especially when u watch kossismoss(is that how you spell it?) WHO was throwing them out constantly(seriously, constantly,watch one of his sets, its actually hilarious how often he does it and gets away with it -_-) but i think the thing you were looking for is probably no safety on shield on his aerials, along with no ac aerials out of a sh? :/ but yeah i think he is underrated and could be mid tier, but he definitely does have some issues holding him back(what does he do vs shield at kill% for eg) but i will say that regi was once again inspirational with his performance(im surprised at how many people forgot/dismissed his performance at evo, he played amazing back then too yet people were surprised this time around again, why?)
Sorry to return on this topic again but I wanted to share my opinion. I think that the best possible nerfs, that are more
tweeks than anything, for Sheik are two and very specific: Needles and Vanish.
- Making needles with reduced knockback and hitstun, more or less Melee level, would reduce camping without hurting Sheik so much; she would still have a good tool to stop camping and block approaches. As of now, needles are stupid. Characters that based their gameplan like Villager and Megaman are s*** on by how good they are and that's not fair considering that she's a rushdown. Oh, and she has a needles > bouncing fish confirm that is quite dumb considering how safe that move already is.
- Remove the invicibility frames (and maybe the windbox at the end) of vanish would make edgeguarding Sheik at least possible without hurting anything of her gameplan. Teleporting recoveries are strong in this game and if you can't catch them at the startup it's really almost an assured comeback (bar 2 frames).
Will this affect Sheik viability? I really doubt it. She has still the safest moves in the game, amazing frame data and a 50/50 setup to close stocks. But this very small changes (yes, they are small) will make the gap between her and the other characters more bearable.
I want to specify that I'm not
crying for a nerf and if this doesn't happen
it's fine. I just wanted to share my opinion on this topic and you can respond to this because I think Sheik is quite overtuned compared to the rest of the cast, I will be open for any criticism. Thank you
this is pretty much exactly my problem with sheik, especially point one about needles, shes a rushdown, arguably
the rushdown character and yet she is also able to outcamp campers, thereby kind of mitigating their purpose as a character. i know a lot of people have
been wondering asked for fair nerfs etc, but the issue I see with her is just that, not only is she the best rushdown character in the game, shes basically also the best camping character in the game.
i have wanted sheik needles nerfed for a bit now, and while genesis 3 didnt show me absolute sheik dominance, it showed me once again why i think needles are way too good, ive mentioned it in a previous post, but to me the two sets that showcased this were zero vs earth and zero vs ranai, in the set with earth, after earth took that game on lylat zero pulled back a bit and needle camped waiting for his opening, and earth could not deal with it at all, and if a character with tools such as pit had trouble dealing with it, what about characters with fewer/worse tools than pit? and more importantly, it was zero vs ranai which really made me think "damn, needles really need to be toned down a bit" now dont get me wrong, i loved watching that set, and it was probaly the best set ive ever seen, but the fact that villager was forced to approach vs sheik, in other words one of the best campers was forced to approach by one of the best rushdown characters, was what really confirmed to me personally that needles are just too good imo.
also another reason why genesis caused a lot of people to call for sheik nerfs again(outside of the facts already mentioned in this thread) is imo due to void, because he showed people how absolutely amazing sheiks combo game can be on a consistent basis, and i think a few people(me definitely included) underestimated just HOW good it is :/
