Even an item tossed MB shouldn't reach her if she's on the right half of the stage, and even if it could, you don't have the frames to react and throw it. The math doesn't add up. I'll prove it:
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime has the #1 position on the leaderboard at 110ms, or just under 7 frames. The median is double that. That is for watching a box change color, not identifying an animation, which obviously takes many more frames. Even if you have exceptional reaction time, you aren't "reacting" to any of her stuff. She literally has her fAir out before your brain can process it, much less react and put out a bAir or whatever.
You don't react to moves. You react to positioning and timing. Sheik's FAir could be f13 for all I care, she's still using to SHFF land and combo into grab/whatever. It's still the same arc of a jump that's ~20 frames? Your thinking of what I'm reacting to is incredibly incredibly flawed.
Using that logic, Megaman literally has his BAir out before the Sheik player's brain can process it, much less react and airdodge or whatever. Megaman can FAir too and nobody can react to it! :/ You're looking at frame data and throwing out numbers, but you don't understand them. Good job. Sorry to be condescending, but that was a really really dumb point and shows you don't understand smash at all. Yes, you should feel bad.
For everything else, I don't see how that translates into anything positive for Mega Man. Stay outside of the range of needles? Sure...and do what to attack Shiek when she is on the other side of FD? Reset more than reverse out of a combo? You don't have a choice - she decides when the combo ends, not Mega. The only control you get is whether or not she baits you into airdodging into Vanish. Control the ground with pellets, MB, and grab? Again, have you actually played a Shiek before? I'm gonna need video proof because that's just ridiculous. She swats pellets and MB, and her grab beats ours. It's not like the pellets at least cancel out her attacks or whatever, she will just fAir/nAir as though you did nothing (except put yourself in 30 frames of endlag you can move but not attack or shield out of). Don't get grabbed?!?!? That is not advice! All you did in that huge post was explain the most basic needle play possible, and put up all these crazy scenarios where Shiek has 0 spacing and Mega Man gets free punishes. That isn't how the MU works.
You're upset about my incredibly simplistic rules? That's because everything else is built on top of those rules.
- You're not staying outside the range of needles, that's either a platform or literally full stage. Your goal is to be inside the range where you can react to needles. SEE NEEDLES
- Maybe I should've put "strung" instead of "combo'd." There are many times when Sheik has put you in a situation where you have to land. If you watch me vs Cacogen, I end up trying to FAir out of a string to get him off me, instead of landing and resetting. Shield>continue being strung>more damage. Finding ways to reset and alleviate pressure are often much better options, despite not seeming like them.
- In order to swat pellets and MB, she has to jump. She has left the ground. You have accomplished your mission as long as you didn't let her jump freely or in a range where she can hurt you.
- Her grab beating ours? What does that even mean. It'd be one thing if Megaman had a slow grab, but he doesn't. What does grab vs grab even look like?
- Don't get grabbed is advice. I'm not scared of her jab combo'ing me, in that situation, I'll take that. But I don't want to get grabbed. It's like "don't go offstage vs Villager as Cloud." I'll gladly get juggled. Whether you realize this or not, this is probably what goes through your head.
Everything is built on those rules. That is my game plan.
I broke down the most simple needle play, because that's literally all needle camping is. That's it. There's no dynamic timing, it's not Falco lasers which can be used aerially (to go horizontally), that's all there is to it. It's not a complex move that can lead into 5 different things based on whether you hit sourspot or sweetspot or late hit or early hit... it's just a needle, and the fact that you think there's more to needle camping than what I literally just put, means you haven't broken it down yourself.
I react to grounded needles. You HAVE to. And you probably do. If you're thinking I throw a MB in a twitch response to a fully charged needle storm or uncharged needle storm (Mega's item toss is f11 btw), you're wrong. An item MB discourages needles because it will trade at the right range. I can bait needles by playing with that range, and he can bait item MB with playing with that range, but that's no longer the matchup and that's a me vs my opponent, not Megaman vs Sheik.
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On what planet does a Sheik throw needles so close to me I can land a utilt? When they are running away to b-reverse needles and I pursue. NWM: Dropzone top 16 match vs Shinkou's Sheik on omega Wily first stock. Look it up on Breadnbuttergaming's twitch vod if you really want to. You're not going to, but I don't care. It's not the first time that's happened either. B-reverse paralyzer with ZSS and is a similar idea and happens a lot when Disorient goes on autopilot.
When Sheik (or anyone) in full run away from you, she doesn't have a whole lot of options. Jump, shield, skid, dash attack (no), turnaround special (not neutral B), and b-reverse special.
When sheik b-reverse needles, she reverses her runspeed momentum towards you. It's basically a dash attack in your direction. So, you pursue at the range where you can react to those options. AND THEN THEY DO IT. AND THEN IT'S BEAUTIFUL. Because that's Smash. They wanted the space to do something, and I denied it. They did it anyway, and I punished them for it and they died.
Spacing. Is. A. 2. Person. Interaction.
Sorry for interrupting the more interesting discussion of DK v Mario/the tournament.
) further, this is a perceived mid-tier with arguable viability beating out a top 10 character piloted by a Top 5-ish player. Not sure if DK just has an advantageous matchup, but he didn't git a bunch of Ding Dong combos off or anything and Ally's been in top form today.
