Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics

[Ghostbone]

Good OoS generally isn't a meaningful strength against top tiers because many of them are safe or even have frame advantage on shield.

Not entirely true.
For example, one of ZSS's trump cards against sheik's fair is perfect shield > up-b.
Good out of shield options are still useful, but neither Charizard nor Bowser actually have fast enough out of shield options to be relevant in those matchups.

 

[Blobface]

Ganondorf's buffs this patch are a lot better than some might think.

Warlock Punch armor buffs are whatevs. It's not a bad thing, but it's not going to change much in singles.

Landing lag changes are always nice. Nothing much to say about those besides D-air getting two frames off, which is nice for combos.

N-air ends faster, which makes his advantage state even better, especially offstage. That he can act before he hits the ground with FH N-air is a huge boon to his neutral.

Dark Dive finally has some reward for landing it (not as much as it really should have but I certainly don't mind if my ice cream doesn't have enough sprinkles), giving him a stronger offstage, better platform pressure, and decent OoS option. And it's a grab that can kill, a big deal for Ganon.

The real sleeper here though are the changes to D-air. The entire hitbox was shifted downwards, meaning FHAC D-air (D-air has to be slightly delayed) can now reliably* hit almost all human-sized-or-bigger characters, giving Ganon an immensely rewarding and safe roll punish, something he was sorely lacking.

I don't think these changes revolutionize any of Ganon's matchups, and a lot of other characters got really big buffs, so I wouldn't really say his position has moved much. I do think almost all of his matchups have gotten a bit easier though.

Even from an unbiased perspective, these changes are really, really good. They're small but focused, allowing more varied, interesting strategies for the character while addressing their crucial flaws. This patch makes me hopeful for the next one, not just for Ganon but the meta as a whole.

*This was possible since the 3DS days, but the timing was so precise that it normally wasn't worth going for.

 

[Big-Cat]

Not entirely true.
For example, one of ZSS's trump cards against sheik's fair is perfect shield > up-b.
Good out of shield options are still useful, but neither Charizard nor Bowser actually have fast enough out of shield options to be relevant in those matchups.

Which really leaves footsies as your only option against them. The only thing I can say is to not get hit in those match ups. Just dance around them as much as you can. At the very least those two are probably the most vulnerable beneath them - until they pull out their get out of jail cards, their Down B.

I can only express so much how much I hate the Sheik and Zamus match ups.

 

[Radical Larry]

Ganondorf's buffs this patch are a lot better than some might think.

Warlock Punch armor buffs are whatevs. It's not a bad thing, but it's not going to change much in singles.

Landing lag changes are always nice. Nothing much to say about those besides D-air getting two frames off, which is nice for combos.

N-air ends faster, which makes his advantage state even better, especially offstage. That he can act before he hits the ground with FH N-air is a huge boon to his neutral.

Dark Dive finally has some reward for landing it (not as much as it really should have but I certainly don't mind if my ice cream doesn't have enough sprinkles), giving him a stronger offstage, better platform pressure, and decent OoS option. And it's a grab that can kill, a big deal for Ganon.

The real sleeper here though are the changes to D-air. The entire hitbox was shifted downwards, meaning FHAC D-air (D-air has to be slightly delayed) can now reliably* hit almost all human-sized-or-bigger characters, giving Ganon an immensely rewarding and safe roll punish, something he was sorely lacking.

I don't think these changes revolutionize any of Ganon's matchups, and a lot of other characters got really big buffs, so I wouldn't really say his position has moved much. I do think almost all of his matchups have gotten a bit easier though.

Even from an unbiased perspective, these changes are really, really good. They're small but focused, allowing more varied, interesting strategies for the character while addressing their crucial flaws. This patch makes me hopeful for the next one, not just for Ganon but the meta as a whole.

*This was possible since the 3DS days, but the timing was so precise that it normally wasn't worth going for.

Well, these do certainly help him have foot with some of his MUs, but some other characters like D3 and Bowser will have a run for their money now, and certainly characters who rely on multi-hit attacks from behind will think twice with the Warlock Punch buff (which is really underrated). Basically, a grounded Warlock Punch now NEEDS to have Ganondorf be grabbed. You can't just really attack him since things are a different level now.

But the best buff was his U-Spec buff, which makes it a better under-stage tool alongside an overall great defensive and offensive tool. N-Air comes close as his second best.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I find it ridiculous people are still claiming Mewtwo is lower mid tier after the buffs.

The new patch basically gave Mewtwo the best set of aerials in the game. Their increased range and lessened landing lag significantly improves their utility in Mewtwo's neutral, edgeguard, juggle, and combo games. This, combined with the significant increase in Mewtwo's speed and slight increase in Mewtwo's shadow ball size make Mewtwo much safer and thus make his neutral much much better. His advantageous state is also noticeably better as well. The landing lag buffs make it much easier for mewtwo to initiate combos from fair and nair as well as give him access to completely new combos he wasn't able to perform before. His juggling and edge guarding ability were also improved noticeably as well due to the increased range of his aerials and his improved mobility enabling him trap opponents with U-Smash or Dash Attack.

Mewtwo still isn't a top 15 character due having some nasty weaknesses still such as almost no invincibility on his rolls and spot dodge as well as teleport not working properly on some stages, but to call him lower mid is just insulting. He's at least in the upper echelons of mid tier, if not high tier.

 

[Rizen]

What MUs does Mewtwo win? He did get good buffs but I have a hard time placing him.

 

[PK Gaming]

I find it ridiculous people are still claiming Mewtwo is lower mid tier after the buffs.

The new patch basically gave Mewtwo the best set of aerials in the game. Their increased range and lessened landing lag significantly improves their utility in Mewtwo's neutral, edgeguard, juggle, and combo games. This, combined with the significant increase in Mewtwo's speed and slight increase in Mewtwo's shadow ball size make Mewtwo much safer and thus make his neutral much much better. His advantageous state is also noticeably better as well. The landing lag buffs make it much easier for mewtwo to initiate combos from fair and nair as well as give him access to completely new combos he wasn't able to perform before. His juggling and edge guarding ability were also improved noticeably as well due to the increased range of his aerials and his improved mobility enabling him trap opponents with U-Smash or Dash Attack.

Mewtwo still isn't a top 15 character due having some nasty weaknesses still such as almost no invincibility on his rolls and spot dodge as well as teleport not working properly on some stages, but to call him lower mid is just insulting. He's at least in the upper echelons of mid tier, if not high tier.

Best set of aerials in the game? Please tone down that hyperbole before you flunk math.

 

[LancerStaff]

So, got some rough numbers on Electroshock with rage and max freshness, on FD, against a Mario with no DI or interrupting hitstun a roll's distance away from the ledge. Not entirely sure how rage itself works and I'm working in increments of 5% on Mario and 20% on Dark Pit but these are the numbers I got.


*<50?% 80%
50-70% 75%
90% 70%
110% 65%
130% 55%
150+% 45%
*Tested at 0%, anything in between 50% and 0% wouldn't be relevant regardless of rage's mechanics and I don't feel like it ATM.

Like... What!? Mario could be stylin' on Dark Pit for most of a match then Dark Pit's goes "Gruh, ELECTROSHOCK!" through a jab or something and now Dark Pit's a stock up. Like... Holy ****. This is like giving Dorf Fsmash to Mario.

I'll get more data on different positions tomorrow, hopefully.

 

[TriTails]

If you had to pick - would you rather fight against a Ganon/Luigi with increased ground speed or increased airspeed. I would not, under any circumstance, give them better ground speed. Especially not Ganondorf. I'd give him more KO power or better dph before I'd agree to fight a Ganon with increased ground speed.

I would rather fight Luigi with increased ground speed than airspeed.

'I have a 24 FAF F-air that I can fade back to avoid OoS punishes and also autocancels upon fast-fall'
'I can now approach with SHAC F-air + D-air'
'Git rekt lemons'
'My combos are improved. I also no longer need Garbage Missile to recover'
'RIP people trying to recover with that kind of F-air'
'SH N-air combos for days'

Depending on how much of a buff it is. But if the buff is huge, then above are what you will see on Luigi. Increasing his airspeed to a significant amount fix A LOT of this character's problems. Ground speed doesn't do that.

Basically: Increased ground speed Luigi is nothing. Increased airspeed Luigi is busted.

Stupid late even though I wrote this post at like 6AM in the morning but oh well.

 

[Minordeth]

Yeah, so maybe people are forgetting this, but tiers include results, too. Yeah, Mewtwo looks to be better (maybe by a lot), but he actually has to start achieving some results as well to correspond with that shiny new theorycraft. I mean, I hate to invoke the poster child for this, but Ike started seeing results that corresponded with the theory behind his ever increasing theorycraft (thanks, buffs!).

After the dust from all this settles, Mewtwo, Bowser, whoever, may move up or stay in the same place. It depends on what players actually can start to achieve with them.

Side note: people trying to place Cloud in a tier, or even give numbers for MUs, need to be taken out behind the woodshed.

 

[Cyclone_]

I wonder if anyone's mentioned Bowser's amazing SHAC F-Air and B-Air. Why wouldn't you want to attack with an attack that autocancels, can cover Bowser's front side and could lead into decent shield poking? Or a move that is very powerful and could lead into some good shield poking as well and still autocancels? His F-Air could lead up into a very hazardous shield poke into D-Tilt. All attacks together would nearly break a shield.

Unless auto canceled bowser just turns into a sad turtle lying there questioning his life so they are risky as shield pokes.

 

[Rizen]

This is my impression of Link post patch.
http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-3-patch-notes.425921/

The bad:
Dair getting a ground only hitbox takes away some combos like Bomb thrown down>footstool>Dair lock>Fsmash.

The good: Link got significant buffs to one area he needed them: killing.

His up launching Dsmash1 now hits at a steeper angle and harder. Fsmash 2 also hits slightly harder. These aren't huge but Link gets better reward on hit.

UpB links hits better. Consider the implications with Link's Dthrow; he has one more option to chase opponents in the air and possibly kill. IDK how escapable it is but I have had much better success landing every hit. This also buffs Link's intercepting game; he can SH Dair/Fair/Nair offstage then upB to the ledge (or past it) for a significant wall of pain offstage.

Fair got massive power buffs. The damage for both hits is improved and the BKB for hit 1 is doubled. Bomb>Fair 1 kills almost as early as Toon Link's (both hit frame 14 btw). Killing at a lower % means Fair is easier to chain from bombs/Dthrow/Dtilt because the opponent is launched closer. Considering how safe Fair is (good shield stun, range, cuts 2 times to catch dodges, 12 frames landing lag) this is significant.

Consider these when thinking buffs on characters like Mewtwo will switch the Link MU in their favor. IMO Link is planted in mid-tier instead of hanging on the lower edge of it. Link still has terrible MUs with relevant top tiers like Sheik, ZSS and Fox. His slow frame data and mobility are the same. But he has better, more reliable chains and killing options for every MU now. It's sort of like saying 'instead of a -1, Link now has a -0.5 MU'. Not enough to drastically sway anything but nice all around.

 

[HoSmash4]

Good OoS generally isn't a meaningful strength against top tiers because many of them are safe or even have frame advantage on shield.

It's not totally useless or anything. But against good players you can't just shield something defensively and expect to punish it OoS. You'll generally have to dash when they're not expecting it to mess up their spacing/timing.

Having good OOS options means people have to respect your shield more and not attack it as carelessly. on it. Like you cant block string moves on Ganon the same way you try to block string moves on sheik.

 

[Browny]

So is pit top tier now. Earth was the only one who gave Ranai any sort of trouble.

 

[Nobie]

So is pit top tier now. Earth was the only one who gave Ranai any sort of trouble.

I was actually thinking about Earth's Pit recently. First of all, dang! Congratulations to Earth. I feel like this is his first tournament victory over Ranai, though I might be mistaken.

Second of all, I guess this goes for any top-level character that we don't see a ton of, but why on Earth (ha ha) are there so few high level Pits, when you have a top player like Earth showing the way? There's an army of Sheiks, the remains of the old glorious Diddy brigade are still fairly high in number, and even the complex Ryu has his champions.

What separates the Pits, the Pikachus, etc. from the clearly viable characters that have almost too many players to count?

 

[ReRaze]

So is pit top tier now. Earth was the only one who gave Ranai any sort of trouble.

I was actually thinking about Earth's Pit recently. First of all, dang! Congratulations to Earth. I feel like this is his first tournament victory over Ranai, though I might be mistaken.

Second of all, I guess this goes for any top-level character that we don't see a ton of, but why on Earth (ha ha) are there so few high level Pits, when you have a top player like Earth showing the way? There's an army of Sheiks, the remains of the old glorious Diddy brigade are still fairly high in number, and even the complex Ryu has his champions.

What separates the Pits, the Pikachus, etc. from the clearly viable characters that have almost too many players to count?

When was this? did Earth win/do really well in a tournament? what did I miss?

Also there are actually a decent amount of high level Pits you just have to know where to look. Earth is the only one who attends majors though so he's the only one noticed.

 

[Zannabluke]

worth nothing that paseriman also got third place with pit/dark pit and komorikiri got 5th with cloud (mu inexperience yadda yadda, still a good result)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Earth is also by far the most skilled player to ever touch that character. Same as it was in Brawl.

 

[ReRaze]

Earth is also by far the most skilled player to ever touch that character. Same as it was in Brawl.

Did you not see Nairo vs Earth? in Pit dittos.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I keep forgetting that Nairo plays this character ...

 

[Smog Frog]

i know i'm a bit late to the conversation, but there's some misinformation (that was) going around.

big stature is only an illusion. his wings and part of his tail dont have a hurtbox. taking the wings invincibility into account, he stands at roughly height.

edit:

 

[Emblem Lord]

Pit is boring as ****.

That's probably why.

 

[Y2Kay]

Pit is boring as ****.

That's probably why.

Naw he ain't boring he just doesn't rely on cheese like most top tiers. I guess that's boring to some people, but it doesn't bother me

I guess electroshock is cheesy now tho

 

[HFlash]

komorikiri got 5th with cloud (mu inexperience yadda yadda, still a good result)

But to be fair, the person playing the character has been playing the character for.... less than a week? The character is already getting results so early on? Has to mean something, maybe (and probably) not that Cloud is top tier, but better than most of the Smash 4 Cast.

And as far as Pit is concerned, you have to actually think with him. He is definitely a fundamental centered character that is based on out thinking the opponent as opposed to out comboing or out maneuvering them.

 

[Luco]

Pit is boring as ****.

That's probably why.

I feel like you'd say this about any character that isn't Marth or Ryu.

HFlash I believe Roy had some decent results upon release iirc, and Lucas was used against Ally when he first released to arguable success (it wasn't a set win, but NAKAT did a lot better using Lucas than Fox).

Not saying Cloud having good results at this stage doesn't mean anything, but there is a bit of a trend here and we should keep it in mind as we observe results over the coming weeks.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

I find it ridiculous people are still claiming Mewtwo is lower mid tier after the buffs.

The new patch basically gave Mewtwo the best set of aerials in the game. Their increased range and lessened landing lag significantly improves their utility in Mewtwo's neutral, edgeguard, juggle, and combo games. This, combined with the significant increase in Mewtwo's speed and slight increase in Mewtwo's shadow ball size make Mewtwo much safer and thus make his neutral much much better. His advantageous state is also noticeably better as well. The landing lag buffs make it much easier for mewtwo to initiate combos from fair and nair as well as give him access to completely new combos he wasn't able to perform before. His juggling and edge guarding ability were also improved noticeably as well due to the increased range of his aerials and his improved mobility enabling him trap opponents with U-Smash or Dash Attack.

Mewtwo still isn't a top 15 character due having some nasty weaknesses still such as almost no invincibility on his rolls and spot dodge as well as teleport not working properly on some stages, but to call him lower mid is just insulting. He's at least in the upper echelons of mid tier, if not high tier.

Lmao best set of aeriels in the game?
Not when Shiek, Mario, Luigi, Doc, Ike, Rosalina, Robin, Ness, Yoshi, Cloud, Diddy Kong, Ryu, and Megaman exist.

 

[Emblem Lord]

But to be fair, the person playing the character has been playing the character for.... less than a week? The character is already getting results so early on? Has to mean something, maybe (and probably) not that Cloud is top tier, but better than most of the Smash 4 Cast.

And as far as Pit is concerned, you have to actually think with him. He is definitely a fundamental centered character that is based on out thinking the opponent as opposed to out comboing or out maneuvering them.

Nah he's just standard as ****.

I play Ryu.

I'm not adverse to thinking.

Also he is not rewarded the same way better chars are for doing the same thing.

You outplay sumone in neutral and your reward is...to continuing outplaying them for a trap scenario that..isn't THAT scary.

*yawn*

Luco Marth is boring as **** dude.

 

[Goesasu]

But to be fair, the person playing the character has been playing the character for.... less than a week? The character is already getting results so early on? Has to mean something, maybe (and probably) not that Cloud is top tier, but better than most of the Smash 4 Cast.

Mewtwo won a big japanese tournament day 2 and people were still saying he was bad.

 

[Nobie]

Oh, I realized that I made a mistake in the Mewtwo up air numbers.

Knockback growth is now 97, not 100. The point still stands that it's really powerful.

 

[Y2Kay]

D-tilt to up air kills fox at 110% That'll give u an idea of how strong it is

 

[Thinkaman]

Here's an oddball notion: I'm driving 12hr home for the holidays and wouldn't mind talking about smash for most of that. If anyone wants to have a long conversation about any aspect of smash at any part of today, PM me and we can set up a call.

In the meantime, try not to burn the place down.

 

[Y2Kay]

In the meantime, try not to burn the place down.

No promises.

 

[High Entia]

I find it ridiculous people are still claiming Mewtwo is lower mid tier after the buffs.

The new patch basically gave Mewtwo the best set of aerials in the game. Their increased range and lessened landing lag significantly improves their utility in Mewtwo's neutral, edgeguard, juggle, and combo games. This, combined with the significant increase in Mewtwo's speed and slight increase in Mewtwo's shadow ball size make Mewtwo much safer and thus make his neutral much much better. His advantageous state is also noticeably better as well. The landing lag buffs make it much easier for mewtwo to initiate combos from fair and nair as well as give him access to completely new combos he wasn't able to perform before. His juggling and edge guarding ability were also improved noticeably as well due to the increased range of his aerials and his improved mobility enabling him trap opponents with U-Smash or Dash Attack.

Mewtwo still isn't a top 15 character due having some nasty weaknesses still such as almost no invincibility on his rolls and spot dodge as well as teleport not working properly on some stages, but to call him lower mid is just insulting. He's at least in the upper echelons of mid tier, if not high tier.

Most of what you are saying is absolutely true, but some of it is an exaggeration. Mewtwo now has ONE of the best sets of aerials in the game and the plethora of tweaks to his moveset and stats drastically improve his abilities in all aspects of the match (neutral, comboing, edgeguarding, etc.). The reduced lag on his aerials also makes them much safer to throw out and harder to punish the landing lag. Before this patch, I felt very helpless playing as Mewtwo. Even though he had a few decent combos and Teleport Ledge Cancel, his hitboxes were just all around awful and the second you made the tiniest mistake, you'd die for it. Now, because of all of these buffs, I no longer feel anywhere close to helpless playing Mewtwo.

However, high tier is really jumping the gun, especially considering that not all of Mewtwo's issues were erased from this patch (which you did acknowledge). Mewtwo still has the worst survivability in the game by far (Yes, Jiggs is lighter, but Mewtwo's larger frame means he'll die to attacks before her). While the hitboxes of his aerials and f-smash actually function like real moves now, those on moves like up tilt and grab are still laughably awful. As you said, rolls and spot dodge are still terrible and Teleport still functions awkwardly on some stages.

It's too early to determine exactly how much higher Mewtwo ranks on a tier list. Calling him lower mid tier may seem insulting (and, to an extent, it is), but you have to remember that Mewtwo was considered to be one of the worst characters in the game, if not THE absolute worst, by next to everyone. Think about Wii Fit Trainer and compare Mewtwo to her. Before 1.1.0, Wii Fit Trainer was universally considered to be one of the worst characters in the game, with some even believing her to be the worst. Patch 1.1.0 gave her huge buffs and it became clear that she definitely didn't suck anymore. As a result, she leaped on the tier lists, but is still considered to be a low-mid tier. The same could happen for Mewtwo or he could become a much better character than anyone is anticipating. It really depends if he starts getting representation in large tournaments, so we can see how he ranks.

As I said before, this buff is too large for us to be able to determine how much better Mewtwo is on a tier list this quickly. All I can say is that he's definitely viable now.

 

[meleebrawler]

What MUs does Mewtwo win? He did get good buffs but I have a hard time placing him.

In terms of high tiers he likely beats Ness. The buffs probably won't change his MUs too significantly but I can see his mobility making MUs like Mario and Rosalina easier to manage.

Otherwise he tends to do well against zoners, especially if they lack mobility. To say he comfortably wins anything though is a stretch with his poor stamina. You can't rest on your laurels with this Pokemon.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nah he's just standard as ****.

I play Ryu.

I'm not adverse to thinking.

Also he is not rewarded the same way better chars are for doing the same thing.

You outplay sumone in neutral and your reward is...to continuing outplaying them for a trap scenario that..isn't THAT scary.

*yawn*

Luco Marth is boring as **** dude.

You're pretty much saying that if it ain't Ryu, that character is boring as ****...you don't know how to use Pit and Marth then.

Plus, the reward is besting other players with the most balanced(all around)character in the game...and Sakurai's new son.

So is pit top tier now. Earth was the only one who gave Ranai any sort of trouble.

When did this happen?

 

[---]

i know i'm a bit late to the conversation, but there's some misinformation (that was) going around.

big stature is only an illusion. his wings and part of his tail dont have a hurtbox. taking the wings invincibility into account, he stands at roughly height.

edit:

It is definitely smaller than we give him credit for, but I have noticed that on multi-hit attacks such as Metal Blades Charizard tends to get an extra 3rd time compared to the rest of the cast.

His tail hurtbox is finicky, but it does give him the longest horizontal hurtbox on the cast a good chunk of the time from what I can tell, not that I'm a lab guy or anything.

Here's an oddball notion: I'm driving 12hr home for the holidays and wouldn't mind talking about smash for most of that. If anyone wants to have a long conversation about any aspect of smash at any part of today, PM me and we can set up a call.

Talking on the phone while driving? I thought we all taught you better than that.

 

[Routa]

Talking on the phone while driving? I thought we all taught you better than that.

Hands free perhaps?

Yeah yeah red topic...

 

[Emblem Lord]

Did the thought ever occur, that Sakurai buffs or nerfs to make sure a chars pros and cons are in line with their archetype.

So erasing weaknesses is NOT the goal. And it shouldnt be. Thats stupid.

The goal should be and seems to be to make sure the characters gameplan syncs up with their data. In this way the weaknesses check those strengths to HOPEFULLY give each character a viable gameplan without being overtuned.

Kirby had good combos but garbz mobility and was thus outzoned easily. Got mobility buffs.

Mewtwo was a glass cannon, with alot of glass and not alot of cannon. Mobility buffs as well as frame data changes. Now he fits his archetype.

Lucario also suffered from lack of mobility despite good reward on hit/.grab. Mobility buffs give him a much more workable neutral.

Bowser filled the same role as DK except there was no reason to pick him over DK. Easy solution. Now you have two grapplers with slightly diff movesets. You like viable heavy grapplers? Now you have your choice of two.

Pre-patch Diddy had amazing stage control with the power of a heavy. Definitely an overtuned character. Tone down that uair tho and now you have a character that is still very strong but not off the scale in terms of reward for how easy it is for him to get a grab.

I could keep going, but i think you get the idea.

You're pretty much saying that if it ain't Ryu, that character is boring as ****...you don't know how to use Pit and Marth then.

Plus, the reward is besting other players with the most balanced(all around)character in the game...and Sakurai's new son.

When did this happen?

hahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

oh man. uhhh...ah man...hsivfdkivln

I can't.

TFW mods be telling you to behave cuz you are one of the most influential posters in the competitive community but sumone comes at you with some nonsense.

 

[Browny]

Watching people play vs Komo's cloud was painful, they let him recover for free almost EVERY SINGLE TIME.
I feel if people made any sort of correct attempt to edgeguard him, things would have been different.

Not once did I see anyone try to put a hitbox out on the ledge to clip his upb, they ran off stage to try and intercept him and got faired or just missed. The rest stood on stage without a clue of what to do. I felt Komos camping for limit break was obnoxious and I know to ban SV vs Cloud every time now.

 

[HoSmash4]

Did the thought ever occur, that Sakurai buffs or nerfs to make sure a chars pros and cons are in line with their archetype.

So erasing weaknesses is NOT the goal. And it shouldnt be. Thats stupid.

The goal should be and seems to be to make sure the characters gameplan syncs up with their data. In this way the weaknesses check those strengths to HOPEFULLY give each character a viable gameplan without being overtuned.

Kirby had good combos but garbz mobility and was thus outzoned easily. Got mobility buffs.

Mewtwo was a glass cannon, with alot of glass and not alot of cannon. Mobility buffs as well as frame data changes. Now he fits his archetype.

Lucario also suffered from lack of mobility despite good reward on hit/.grab. Mobility buffs give him a much more workable neutral.

Bowser filled the same role as DK except there was no reason to pick him over DK. Easy solution. Now you have two grapplers with slightly diff movesets. You like viable heavy grapplers? Now you have your choice of two.

Pre-patch Diddy had amazing stage control with the power of a heavy. Definitely an overtuned character. Tone down that uair tho and now you have a character that is still very strong but not off the scale in terms of reward for how easy it is for him to get a grab.

I could keep going, but i think you get the idea.

This guy gets it when people call for nerfs and stuff. People beg for nerfs because they are sick of the top tiers (pick one) when it kinda is their character design.

Hence Nintendo won't nerf sheik because she is overwhelming but she fits her archetype of being a ninja with fast moves but weak moves, full of combos, projectiles and just safety and evasion you'd expect from one. What part of her moveset doesn't fit that? You can say her kill setups mean her moves aren't weak but NONE of her tools in neutral kill before 180%. That's her character design.