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I thought it would be best if the Pokemon Trainer community actually discussed amongst themselves to decide whether or not there should actually be a fix, and if so, what the best option would be.
I'm here to describe the different options in detail and gather people's opinion on the matter and come to some kind of overall agreement on how to treat it.
I'll try to keep it as unbiased as possible.
Pokemon Trainer Main Types
First up, I'll try to group PT mains into 2 groups. The 2 types of PT mains that I can figure out are as such;
1. The one that uses all 3 Pokemon to their full potential. Using adaptability as their key game, they cycle through the 3 Pokemon and use the different play styles of each to suit the current situation.
I'll call this type "Trainer mains"
2. The one that only likes 1 of 3. One of the three Pokemon suits their play style perfectly and they hate the stamina system and the fact it automatically switches to the other 2 on a KO.
I'll call this type "Pokemon mains"
There people inbetween, but these are the 2 extremes.
Options
At the moment there is 2 options made of 3 separate Ocarina codes that "fix" Pokemon Trainer. I'll list them with pros and cons.
Option 1 - Unlimited Stamina and no Auto-switch on KO
This option is made up of 2 Ocarina codes. It covers both types of PT mains. It's a well balanced "fix", but has both sides possibly wanting just a tad more.
Posted By MuBa
What this code does:
This is pretty much self-explanatory. One code makes stamina infinite, and the other removes the Auto-switch on a KO. This essentially makes Pokemon Trainer like Zelda and Sheik. You can choose any of the 3 from the start, you won't switch on a KO, and there's no concequence for keeping one out too long.
Pros:
Cons:
Conclussion
This is a fairly win/win "fix". Trainer mains can still choose their starter, and Pokemon Mains don't have to use any of the other 2 Pokemon. Both sides win, the game gets a few more characters and the competitive tier list gets slightly longer. We essentially get a 3 piece Zelda/Sheik combo.
Option 2 - The Zero Suit Samus Effect
This option is made up of a single Ocarina code. It essentially gives the option to play as all or one. It works identical to how choosing ZSS works.
Posted by spunit262:
What this code does:
This is pretty much self-explanatory also. After choosing Pokemon Trainer and your starter, press and hold down the shield button until the match starts and you should be playing as the trainer independent, "wild" Pokemon of your choice. Not holding down shield will have you end up with regular Pokemon Trainer with your starter of choice.
Pros:
Cons:
Conclussion
Just like Option 1, Trainer mains can still choose their starter, and Pokemon Mains don't have to use any of the other 2 Pokemon. Both sides win, the game gets a few more characters and the competitive tier list gets slightly longer. Unfortunately, all those that are classed inbetween Trainer and Pokemon mains get left out and are forced to choose between one or the other.
Option 3 - Custom Character Select Screen
This option is made up of 2 Ocarina codes. It creates a custom Character Select Screen, giving you the option to add the individual Pokemon as character slots.
Posted By spunit262
What this code does:
This is also pretty self-explanatory. One code creates the select screen, and the other is needed to actually play as the independent Pokemon when you put choose that specific slot. Choosing the individual Pokemon slots give you the appropriate "wild" Pokemon, while choosing Pokemon Trainer you get the normal, unchanged Trainer with your starter of choice.
I reccommend this as the select screen code:
With that you'll get this:
Pros:
Cons:
Conclussion
This is a pretty cool code. The Trainer and each individual Pokemon can be picked independently from each other. Though unrelated, you can even add Zero Suit Samus and split Zelda and Sheik into their own character slots as well. Both sides win, the game gets a few more characters and the competitive tier list gets slightly longer. But like Option 2, all those that are classed inbetween Trainer and Pokemon mains get left out and are forced to choose between one or the other.
Competitive/Tournament Use:
Steeler made a thread over on the Tactical boards asking whether or not people would accept the "No fatigue/No forced switch" as a tournament standard (thread can be found here). It was pretty much poo-poo'd by most people and the argument was fairly heated. The biggest issue was the fact that people aren't a huge fan of hacking, but a few good points did arrise. People didn't like the fact that the "No stamina/forced switch" was essentially a character specific "Buff", basically stating that it was unfair to just buff the Trainer and people would start wanting changes made to their own characters.
While I basically stated that hacks such as these would never appear in current mainstream tourneys, there's still the possibility of modded Brawl tournaments in the future.
While looking at each option, please take into account the difference between Personal/Private and Competitive use. Because Option 1 IS simply a character buff, while Options 2 & 3 are just adding 3 more characters to the list, leaving the Trainer himself untouched.
Minor Issues
Option 1:
Trainer Mains might enjoy the auto-switch on KO ability or the stamina aspect. It mixes things up, makes adapting to the match required. It adds strategy that no other member in the Brawl cast can enjoy.
Pokemon Mains might have enjoyed the independence from the trainer, essentially separating Pokemon and adding 3 new character to the Brawl cast.
Possible Alternative:
Making it so that you have to hold down the shield button in order to activate the stamina and auto switch fixes.
Option 2 & 3:
These solutions may satisfy both extremes of the Pokemon Trainer main, but everyone inbetween doesn't have a middle-ground to play on. They have to choose between either using all 3 pokemon, or settling on just one.
Possible Alternative:
Giving default Pokemon Trainer a few fixes:
These arguments may be minor and nitpicky, but this thread is made to give options and spark a discussion that ends in a general sense of agreement between both sides of the issue AND everyone in between.
I'm also trying to work towards something that will benefit the entire Brawl Community and create something that everyone can enjoy, on and off the competitive scene.
What now?
Now we discuss amongst outselves.
I'm just here putting it all out there to think about and discuss.
Links
In-depth Wii soft-mod tutorial - ie. "Using these codes"
Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion
Brawl+: Code Agenda
With Brawl+ being developed, a "fix" for Pokemon Trainer has been added to the list of codes that overall improve the game mechanics. This fix removes the stamina and the auto switch on KO.
I thought it would be best if the Pokemon Trainer community actually discussed amongst themselves to decide whether or not there should actually be a fix, and if so, what the best option would be.
I'm here to describe the different options in detail and gather people's opinion on the matter and come to some kind of overall agreement on how to treat it.
I'll try to keep it as unbiased as possible.
Pokemon Trainer Main Types
First up, I'll try to group PT mains into 2 groups. The 2 types of PT mains that I can figure out are as such;
1. The one that uses all 3 Pokemon to their full potential. Using adaptability as their key game, they cycle through the 3 Pokemon and use the different play styles of each to suit the current situation.
I'll call this type "Trainer mains"
2. The one that only likes 1 of 3. One of the three Pokemon suits their play style perfectly and they hate the stamina system and the fact it automatically switches to the other 2 on a KO.
I'll call this type "Pokemon mains"
There people inbetween, but these are the 2 extremes.
Options
At the moment there is 2 options made of 3 separate Ocarina codes that "fix" Pokemon Trainer. I'll list them with pros and cons.
Option 1 - Unlimited Stamina and no Auto-switch on KO
This option is made up of 2 Ocarina codes. It covers both types of PT mains. It's a well balanced "fix", but has both sides possibly wanting just a tad more.
Posted By MuBa
Code:
P.Trainer Infinite Stamina (28 Lines) [Phantom Wings]
48000000 80000000
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
92210002 00000000
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000008
20001810 0000001D
14017FB0 4F000000
20001811 0000001E
14016300 4F000000
20001811 0000001F
14011124 4F000000
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000
P.Trainer No Swap: (11 Lines) [Y.S. & Phantom Wings]
C2816AF4 0000000A
3E408062 3A523320
3A60FFFF 3E730001
7E732038 1E730244
7E529A14 80120000
2C00001D 41800024
2C000022 4181001C
2C170115 41820014
38A5FFFF 2C050000
40800008 38A00002
7C0802A6 00000000This is pretty much self-explanatory. One code makes stamina infinite, and the other removes the Auto-switch on a KO. This essentially makes Pokemon Trainer like Zelda and Sheik. You can choose any of the 3 from the start, you won't switch on a KO, and there's no concequence for keeping one out too long.
Pros:
- Both(possibly) - No stamina
- Pokemon Main - Can main single Pokemon
- Trainer Main - Can choose starter
- Trainer Main - Can switch Pokemon
Cons:
- Pokemon Main - No swap code doesn't work online (only tested against someone not using codes)
- Replays saved with the No-Swap code have... issues. (after a KO, when the Pokeball get thrown onto the recovery platform, it never opens. The Pokemon never comes out.)
- Loses uniqueness, and brings up nitpicky issues (will elaborate further down)
Conclussion
This is a fairly win/win "fix". Trainer mains can still choose their starter, and Pokemon Mains don't have to use any of the other 2 Pokemon. Both sides win, the game gets a few more characters and the competitive tier list gets slightly longer. We essentially get a 3 piece Zelda/Sheik combo.
Option 2 - The Zero Suit Samus Effect
This option is made up of a single Ocarina code. It essentially gives the option to play as all or one. It works identical to how choosing ZSS works.
Posted by spunit262:
Code:
Hold SHIELD for Independent Pokemon +no wreck My Music [spunit262]
06407BD0 0000000E
04030F0D 1E1B1F1B
201B211B 221B0000
046847C4 60000000
C268482C 00000003
3800003F 981400B8
2C1D0003 40A20008
3BA00004 00000000
C2684964 00000007
881400B8 2C00003F
40A20028 2C03001D
40A20008 3860001E
2C03001F 40A20008
38600020 2C030021
40A20008 38600022
987400B8 00000000This is pretty much self-explanatory also. After choosing Pokemon Trainer and your starter, press and hold down the shield button until the match starts and you should be playing as the trainer independent, "wild" Pokemon of your choice. Not holding down shield will have you end up with regular Pokemon Trainer with your starter of choice.
Pros:
- Pokemon Main - No stamina
- Pokemon Main - Can main single Pokemon
- Trainer Main - Can choose starter
- Trainer Main - Can switch Pokemon
Cons:
- Pokemon Main - Doesn't work online (only tested against someone not using codes)
- Can only pick between the 2 extremes, no middle ground
Conclussion
Just like Option 1, Trainer mains can still choose their starter, and Pokemon Mains don't have to use any of the other 2 Pokemon. Both sides win, the game gets a few more characters and the competitive tier list gets slightly longer. Unfortunately, all those that are classed inbetween Trainer and Pokemon mains get left out and are forced to choose between one or the other.
Option 3 - Custom Character Select Screen
This option is made up of 2 Ocarina codes. It creates a custom Character Select Screen, giving you the option to add the individual Pokemon as character slots.
Posted By spunit262
Code:
Custom CSS V3 [spunit262]
0668310C 00000030
387E006C 3B600000
3C808068 38840DE0
7CBB20AE 7CA50775
41800014 94A30004
3B7B0001 2C1B0032
4180FFE8 48000038
04690338 48000068
066900d8 00000008
2c170028 41820168
02680DE0 0022FFFF
06680DE0 000000[COLOR="Red"]YY[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]ZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZ[/COLOR]
<!--[!include:CSS Values]-->
Independent Pokemon Engine +no wreck My Music V1.1 [spunit262]
06407BD0 0000000E
04030F0D 1E1B1F1B
201B211B 221B0000
C20AF830 00000003
2C03002A 41800008
3863FFD6 54602036
60000000 00000000
C20AF8D0 00000003
3C808045 2C03002A
41A00008 3863FFD6
60000000 00000000
C2684940 00000004
2C1D002A 41A00010
3BBDFFD6 39E0003F
99F400B8 2C1D001B
60000000 00000000
C2684964 00000007
881400B8 2C00003F
40A20028 2C03001D
40A20008 3860001E
2C03001F 40A20008
38600020 2C030021
40A20008 38600022
987400B8 00000000
CSS Values
[COLOR="Red"]YY[/COLOR] Number of characters
[COLOR="Yellow"]ZZZZZZZZ[/COLOR]
00 Mario
01 Donkey Kong
02 Link
03 Samus
04 Zero Suit Samus
05 Yoshi
06 Kirby
07 Fox
08 Pikachu
09 Luigi
0A Captain Falcon
0B Ness
0C Bowser
0D Peach
0E Zelda
0F Sheik
10 Ice Climbers
11 Marth
12 Mr. Game & Watch
13 Falco
14 Ganondorf
15 Wario
16 Metaknight
17 Pit
18 Pikmin & Olimar
19 Lucas
1A Diddy Kong
1B Pokemon Trainer
1C Charizard
1D Squirtle
1E Venasaur
1F Dedede
20 Lucario
21 Ike
22 Robot
23 Jigglypuff
24 Toon Link
25 Wolf
26 Snake
27 Sonic
28 None
29 Random
3A Popo
50 Nana
46 Charizard (Trainer Independant)
47 Squirtle (Trainer Independant)
48 Venasaur (Trainer Independant)This is also pretty self-explanatory. One code creates the select screen, and the other is needed to actually play as the independent Pokemon when you put choose that specific slot. Choosing the individual Pokemon slots give you the appropriate "wild" Pokemon, while choosing Pokemon Trainer you get the normal, unchanged Trainer with your starter of choice.
I reccommend this as the select screen code:
Code:
0668310C 00000030
387E006C 3B600000
3C808068 38840DE0
7CBB20AE 7CA50775
41800014 94A30004
3B7B0001 2C1B0032
4180FFE8 48000038
04690338 48000068
066900d8 00000008
2c170028 41820168
02680DE0 0022FFFF
06680DE0 00000028
00010207 11030617
1B08091A 24132104
160A4723 0D050E25
180B1F27 48200C15
14221019 12264629Pros:
- Pokemon Main - No stamina
- Pokemon Main - Can main single Pokemon
- Trainer Main - Can choose starter
- Trainer Main - Can switch Pokemon
Cons:
- Pokemon Main - Doesn't work online (only tested against someone not using codes)
- Can only pick between the 2 extremes, no middle ground
Conclussion
This is a pretty cool code. The Trainer and each individual Pokemon can be picked independently from each other. Though unrelated, you can even add Zero Suit Samus and split Zelda and Sheik into their own character slots as well. Both sides win, the game gets a few more characters and the competitive tier list gets slightly longer. But like Option 2, all those that are classed inbetween Trainer and Pokemon mains get left out and are forced to choose between one or the other.
Competitive/Tournament Use:
Steeler made a thread over on the Tactical boards asking whether or not people would accept the "No fatigue/No forced switch" as a tournament standard (thread can be found here). It was pretty much poo-poo'd by most people and the argument was fairly heated. The biggest issue was the fact that people aren't a huge fan of hacking, but a few good points did arrise. People didn't like the fact that the "No stamina/forced switch" was essentially a character specific "Buff", basically stating that it was unfair to just buff the Trainer and people would start wanting changes made to their own characters.
While I basically stated that hacks such as these would never appear in current mainstream tourneys, there's still the possibility of modded Brawl tournaments in the future.
While looking at each option, please take into account the difference between Personal/Private and Competitive use. Because Option 1 IS simply a character buff, while Options 2 & 3 are just adding 3 more characters to the list, leaving the Trainer himself untouched.
Minor Issues
Option 1:
Trainer Mains might enjoy the auto-switch on KO ability or the stamina aspect. It mixes things up, makes adapting to the match required. It adds strategy that no other member in the Brawl cast can enjoy.
Pokemon Mains might have enjoyed the independence from the trainer, essentially separating Pokemon and adding 3 new character to the Brawl cast.
Possible Alternative:
Making it so that you have to hold down the shield button in order to activate the stamina and auto switch fixes.
Option 2 & 3:
These solutions may satisfy both extremes of the Pokemon Trainer main, but everyone inbetween doesn't have a middle-ground to play on. They have to choose between either using all 3 pokemon, or settling on just one.
Possible Alternative:
Giving default Pokemon Trainer a few fixes:
- Unlimited/increased stamina
- The ability to swap to the previous pokemon by holding shield and pressing Down-B(if even remotely possible)
These arguments may be minor and nitpicky, but this thread is made to give options and spark a discussion that ends in a general sense of agreement between both sides of the issue AND everyone in between.
I'm also trying to work towards something that will benefit the entire Brawl Community and create something that everyone can enjoy, on and off the competitive scene.
What now?
Now we discuss amongst outselves.
- Determine more pros and cons for each option
- Create new options, edit old options
- Figure out what eveyone actually wants
- Decide whether or not we actually want any kind of solution
- Etc...
I'm just here putting it all out there to think about and discuss.
Links
In-depth Wii soft-mod tutorial - ie. "Using these codes"
Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion
Brawl+: Code Agenda
