Changing Pokemon Trainer - Now with Poll - Link inside

[xicsrh]

Hold SHIELD for Independent Pokemon +no wreck My Music [spunit262]
06407BD0 0000000E
04030F0D 1E1B1F1B
201B211B 221B0000
046847C4 60000000
C268482C 00000003
3800003F 981400B8
2C1D0003 40A20008
3BA00004 00000000
C2684964 00000007
881400B8 2C00003F
40A20028 2C03001D
40A20008 3860001E
2C03001F 40A20008
38600020 2C030021
40A20008 38600022
987400B8 00000000

So I've been using this code and I've been liking it a lot. One thing I was wondering, though, is if it's possible to switch it so that holding shield give pokemon trainer and not holding shield gives independent pokemon. This is just for my personal preference. Can anyone either rework the code or let me know if it's possible?

Edit: Nevermind, I got spunit262 to make it for me. I'll post it if anyone asks.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Discovered minor issue with No-Swap code. Added to Option 1 cons.

 

[Steeler]

K in brawl+, do whatever you want to make them good, since i assume character balance will be addressed. this is no stamina whatsoever and choice of forced swap or not

however, if we want these to be allowed in brawl, we have to make two clear distinctions. solo pokemon and trainer.

trainer should have no differences whatsoever. keep stamina, keep forced switch, etc.

solo pokemon should have no stamina, no forced switch, AND no down b switch move

however, i'm confused as to whether the current codes do this. afaik the only way to remove down b switch is with the zss effect code, and i get the impression that pt has no stamina regardless of whether you hold shield or not?

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Ok, I'll do one big clarification about Brawl+ right here. I'm here to get a finalised decision from the Trainer community, to give them an option to give a minor fix to the Trainer in regular "vanilla" Brawl. Ie. NOT Brawl+. Once that's been figured out, the info will be passed on to the Brawl+ crew, since it has a higher chance of becoming "mainstream" in Brawl+.

Your free to use the info gathered in this thread in however way you want. Be it using the hack simply by itself for private use at home, using it in tandem with Brawl+, or adding it as a standard to regular Brawl tournaments. I don't care.

Ok, hopefully that's sorted.

Now, for you Steeler. The code you want is Option 2 "Independent Pokemon" (or "Wild Pokemon" if you prefer). It gives 2 clear distinctions between Trainer and Solo.

Holding down shield will get you the solo Pokemon of your choice, completely free from the Trainer (the trainer doesn't even appear anywhere when playing). Now I'll break it up for you(this is only for holding shield for solo PKMN):

• No Pokemon switching WHATSOEVER. Auto switch on KO and pressing Down-B to switch is completely erradicated. This is solely due to the fact that there is NO trainer. So you can't switch, no matter how hard you try.
  
• Stamina. Stamina is no issue anymore. Unless you survive for more than ~5 minutes on a single stock. While people say the solo Pokemon have no stamina, this is in fact incorrect. The solo Pokemon simply have greatly increased stamina, and being KO'd completely restores the timer. I'm talking 5-10 minutes here. And while I haven't tested it, I don't think performing any moves decrease that time at all. Also, I'm not entirely sure it affects damage and knockback anyway. All I know is that the Pokemon go into their tired poses. So while stamina isn't infinite, it's not an issue unless you can survive an entire match without being KO'd

Now, if you don't press shield to get the solo Pokemon, the Trainer himself is completely unchanged. It's like there is no code/hack on. The Pokemon get tired after the ~2min stamina runs out, and it cycles to the next Pokemon when you get KO'd.

All that happens when the code is active is that you get 3 new characters to play with. Trainer is completely unchanged, and the 3 Pokemon get added to the character list and get treated like Pikachu, Lucario and Jigglypuff.

I hope that clears everything up for you Steeler.

 

[DemonFart]

i would actually like the ability to switch but
-no stamina
-no auto switch on ko
having all 3 pokemon is good so without stamina and auto switch on kos he would be just fine. having the ability to switch is what seems the smartest.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

i would actually like the ability to switch but
-no stamina
-no auto switch on ko
having all 3 pokemon is good so without stamina and auto switch on kos he would be just fine. having the ability to switch is what seems the smartest.

That would be Option 1 in th OP.

 

[Steeler]

thank you for the clarification weirdoz. that is exactly what i wanted. i will have that code running every time i play brawl, since i can still use normal PT if necessary...

for brawl+, take stamina off no matter what. :\ switch on death is kind of player preference, but just leave it on and hold shield to take it off. down b should stay.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

No problem Steeler.

It's interesting that you have a different opinion for personal and competitive use.

 

[DemonFart]

thank you for the clarification weirdoz. that is exactly what i wanted. i will have that code running every time i play brawl, since i can still use normal PT if necessary...

for brawl+, take stamina off no matter what. :\ switch on death is kind of player preference, but just leave it on and hold shield to take it off. down b should stay.

yep,steeler nailed it. thats is exactly how i want pokemon trainer to be in brawl+. what do you guys think his tier stautus will amount to?

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

"Trainer Mains might enjoy the auto-switch on KO ability or the stamina aspect. It mixes things up, makes adapting to the match required. It adds strategy that no other member in the Brawl cast can enjoy."

Quoted from the first post and pretty much how l feel.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Is it possible to create a poll? It would be nice to have a record of how many people want the Trainer himself buffed with no stamina or auto switch, or simply separating the Pokemon from the Trainer while keeping him unchanged.

 

[spunit262]

Here's another option. It's longer then the others, but it's some much more awesome.

Custom CSS V3 [spunit262]
0668310C 00000030
387E006C 3B600000
3C808068 38840DE0
7CBB20AE 7CA50775
41800014 94A30004
3B7B0001 2C1B0032
4180FFE8 48000038
04690338 48000068
066900d8 00000008
2c170028 41820168
02680DE0 0022FFFF
06680DE0 000000YY
ZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZ
<!--[!include:CSS Values]-->

Costom Random V1 [spunit262]
06685824 0000000C
3C608068 7C630214
88630E80 00000000
046857F0 3AE000YY
06680E80 000000YY
ZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZ
<!--[!include:CSS Values]-->

CSS Values
Needs "Giga and Company Engine V1" for Giga and Company
YY Number of characters
ZZZZZZZZ
00 Mario
01 Donkey Kong
02 Link
03 Samus
04 Zero Suit Samus
05 Yoshi
06 Kirby
07 Fox
08 Pikachu
09 Luigi
0A Captain Falcon
0B Ness
0C Bowser
0D Peach
0E Zelda
0F Sheik
10 Ice Climbers
11 Marth
12 Mr. Game & Watch
13 Falco
14 Ganondorf
15 Wario
16 Metaknight
17 Pit
18 Pikmin & Olimar
19 Lucas
1A Diddy Kong
1B Pokemon Trainer
1C Charizard
1D Squirtle
1E Venasaur
1F Dedede
20 Lucario
21 Ike
22 Robot
23 Jigglypuff
24 Toon Link
25 Wolf
26 Snake
27 Sonic
28 None
29 Random
3A Popo
50 Nana
46 Charizard (Trainer Independant)
47 Squirtle (Trainer Independant)
48 Venasaur (Trainer Independant)
36 Giga Bowser
3F WarioMan
34 ZakoRed (Red Alloy)
38 ZakoBlue (Blue Alloy)
2A ZakoYellow (Yellow Alloy)
30 ZakoGreen (Green Alloy)

Giga and Company Engine V1.1
C20AF830 00000003
2C03002A 41800008
3863FFD6 54602036
60000000 00000000
C20AF8D0 00000003
3C808045 2C03002A
41A00008 3863FFD6
60000000 00000000
C2684940 00000004
2C1D002A 41A00010
3BBDFFD6 39E0003F
99F400B8 2C1D001B
60000000 00000000
C2684964 00000013
881400B8 2C00003F
40A20088 2C030010
40A20008 38600011
2C030026 40A20008
38600012 2C03001D
40A20008 3860001E
2C03001F 40A20008
38600020 2C030021
40A20008 38600022
2C03000C 40A20008
3860002C 2C030017
40A20008 3860002D
2C03000A 40A20008
3860002E 2C03000E
40A20008 3860002F
2C030000 40A20008
38600030 2C030006
40A20008 38600031
987400B8 00000000
Needs "Alloys don't crash and Others don't wreck My Music V2" for safty.

Independent Pokemon Engine +no wreck My Music V1.1 [spunit262]
06407BD0 0000000E
04030F0D 1E1B1F1B
201B211B 221B0000
C20AF830 00000003
2C03002A 41800008
3863FFD6 54602036
60000000 00000000
C20AF8D0 00000003
3C808045 2C03002A
41A00008 3863FFD6
60000000 00000000
C2684940 00000004
2C1D002A 41A00010
3BBDFFD6 39E0003F
99F400B8 2C1D001B
60000000 00000000
C2684964 00000007
881400B8 2C00003F
40A20028 2C03001D
40A20008 3860001E
2C03001F 40A20008
38600020 2C030021
40A20008 38600022
987400B8 00000000

Alloys don't crash and Others don't wreck My Music V2 [spunit262]
06407BD0 0000000E
04030F0D 1E1B1F1B
201B211B 221B0000
C2815524 0000000D
7C641B78 2C030011
4182000C 2C030012
40A20008 38600010
2C03002C 40A20008
3860000C 2C03002D
40A20008 38600017
2C03002E 40A20008
3860000A 2C03002F
40A20008 3860000E
2C030030 40A20008
38600000 2C030031
40A20008 38600006
4E800020 00000000
C29472D8 00000003
2C04002E 4180000C
90810058 38000000
9801005D 00000000

 

[Retro Gaming]

Is it possible to create a poll? It would be nice to have a record of how many people want the Trainer himself buffed with no stamina or auto switch, or simply separating the Pokemon from the Trainer while keeping him unchanged.

I believe I can set this up for you. Tell me what options you want and I'll go about creating it for you.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

PM sent Retro.

@spunit262: That works great spunit. But like you said, it is a tad long. The only minor problem I found is that the announcer doesn't say the names (except for Charizard, who says "ROB"). Only a minor issue, so it's fine if you don't/can't fix it. Also, if you can't be bothered, I'll pass it on to the Brawl+ Agenda thread.

 

[Steeler]

oh my god

that character select

is the coolest thing

i've ever seen

lol

 

[-Jagger-]

meow? meow meow MEOW

 

[Rkey]

Don't remove stamina and don't remove auto-switch, please! It would KILL PT, those two things are the two things that ARE PT!

Anyone else feeling like this?

 

[Alopex]

Spunit, someone in the Code Agenda thread made the following suggestion, and I think it's badass:

- CSS screen. Has a character slot for each the PT, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard.
- Independent Pokemon code is OFF.
- Instead, selecting a Pokemon selects your starter Pokemon and turns off the auto-swap. You can still transform if you wish.
- Selecting the PT leaves auto-swap turned on.
- In all cases, there's no stamina.

This is awesome to me. It lets you play 5 different ways using 4 character slots:
- PT with auto-swap (select the PT)
- PT with no auto-swap (select one of the 3 Pokemon and use DownB as you wish)
- 3 individual Pokemon (select one of the Pokemon and never use the DownB)


I see this as an ideal solution to the PT, even if it is a little bit lengthier on lines. I just don't see how this would not please everyone... (except those that want to keep stamina for some reason...)

Do you think it's possible to code something like this? It would basically just use the No Fatigue and No Swap Codes when choosing the individual Pokemon, and would use only No Fatigue when choosing the PT.

And what do others think of it?

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

I personally think that is a bad idea.

For starters, what happens if you get Auto-Swap Trainer vs No Auto-Swap Trainer? Wouldn't one have a clear advantage over the other? It would be very silly to have the option of choosing a limited character over a version with the limits removed. It would be like pitting Vanilla Olimar against an Olimar with invulnerable Pikmin.

Second, the whole point of having separate character slots for each of the individual Pokemon is to separate them from the Trainer and the other Pokemon. If you put you cursor/counter on the "Ivysaur" square on the character select screen, you should get Ivysaur ONLY. That means no switching or Trainer, PERIOD. If you put you cursor/counter on the "Pokemon Trainer" square on the character select screen, you should get the Trainer with Ivysaur out first and still have access to the other 2.

The way I see it is like this: Ultimately we should have the Trainer and each Pokemon as individual character slots on a Custom Character Select Screen. Choosing the Trainer will get you the 3 piece combo, and choosing a Pokemon will get you that Pokemon ONLY.

I think the only thing we need to discuss is how to treat the 3 piece combo. Either picking No Stamina, No Auto-Swap, or both. But in my opinion, having the No Auto-Swap code on makes the separate character slots completely and utterly redundant since they can just transform into each other anyway. Exactly the same as having Zelda and Sheik as separate character slots.

 

[Steeler]

yeah how to treat PT is the only real issue, solo Pokemon is a given.

i personally want to keep stamina so that when i play friendlies, i can either work on my tourney PT or work on a specific pokemon.

taking stamina off in all cases should only be for brawl+ metagame, and i'm not really interested in that right now. have the option to put stamina on or off imo. other than that, alopex's plan is fine. i kind of like the fact that solo Pokemon can't switch using Down B (if that's the case with Indie Pokemon Engine) because it enforces the fact that you are playing as only one character.

if (big if) solo Pokemon were allowed in "vBrawl", it'd have to be Trainer stays the same and solo Pokemon have no switch move, no auto switch, and no stamina. that's what i prefer right now. I don't really care about playing PT without stamina, because that defeats the purpose of playing friendlies to get better.

well, defeats the purpose even more than playing a solo Poke.

 

[Alopex]

I personally think that is a bad idea.

For starters, what happens if you get Auto-Swap Trainer vs No Auto-Swap Trainer? Wouldn't one have a clear advantage over the other? It would be very silly to have the option of choosing a limited character over a version with the limits removed. It would be like pitting Vanilla Olimar against an Olimar with invulnerable Pikmin.

This is not true because it is entirely a matter of opinion and personal playstyle.
The auto-swap has its benefits, and some players like it. It's a tactical choice. The real crippling factor is stamina, and we're getting rid of that. There is no clear advantage to No Swap on Death if you are equally skilled with all Pokemon, and thus only those players would use that. There's only a clear advantage to No Swap if you have a Pokemon preference. When that happens, you're more likely to just stick to that Pokemon anyway. There are lots of true PT mainers that enjoy using all 3 characters and would find the auto-swap to be an asset. Here's how:

I've said it before, but switching Pokemon in Brawl+ will be a difficult task because the PT's switching options are so limited (unlike Zelda/Sheik). The auto-swap can then be a chosen avenue of switching for those that like its ability to keep the game rapidly changing. Because DownB switching is anything but rapid. Auto-swap ensures your opponent needs to switch strategies every time they kill you. In the proper hands, that's not a bad tool.

Second, the whole point of having separate character slots for each of the individual Pokemon is to separate them from the Trainer and the other Pokemon. If you put you cursor/counter on the "Ivysaur" square on the character select screen, you should get Ivysaur ONLY. That means no switching or Trainer, PERIOD. If you put you cursor/counter on the "Pokemon Trainer" square on the character select screen, you should get the Trainer with Ivysaur out first and still have access to the other 2.
The way I see it is like this: Ultimately we should have the Trainer and each Pokemon as individual character slots on a Custom Character Select Screen. Choosing the Trainer will get you the 3 piece combo, and choosing a Pokemon will get you that Pokemon ONLY.

This doesn't matter. Doing this just forces a restriction on players when there doesn't need to be one. There's really no NEED to completely segregate the Pokemon from the other and leave 3 characters in the game with no DownB move at all. The poor switching mechanics for the PT make it more than balanced to have access to all 3, and I covered this multiple times in the Code Agenda thread.
The cosmetic differences are frivolous at best. Choosing Ivysaur and getting Ivysaur as your starter with No Swap means you can be Ivysaur the entire time and never change at all.
That's the exact same as playing an independent Ivysaur. There's no difference except a forced restriction. And this restriction is not even game balancing, it's entirely conceptual and unnecessary. All it does, simply, is restrict the options available to players. This solution retains ALL options available with the PT + Indep Pokemon, but adds one: the PT with No Swap.
Frankly, I believe Brawl+ should be and is all about increasing player options. It's about increasing the ways that the game and its characters can be played. Imposing an unneeded restriction for the sake of concept goes against that notion entirely.

I think the only thing we need to discuss is how to treat the 3 piece combo. Either picking No Stamina, No Auto-Swap, or both. But in my opinion, having the No Auto-Swap code on makes the separate character slots completely and utterly redundant since they can just transform into each other anyway. Exactly the same as having Zelda and Sheik as separate character slots.

Zelda and Sheik do have their own character slots in most CSS's. It's a preference for those that have no interest in ever playing the transformation. Some people hate Zelda. They like having their own character slot with Sheik. They like picking their character straight from the screen instead of going to the portrait and then changing it there. They like hearing their character's name as soon as they pick it. It just feels right and feels hassle-free. It serves a purpose.

That's exact same thing that would happen here. It's not redundant, it's personal preference.
Once again, imposing a segregational restriction is entirely unnecessary. This "Starting Pokemon" system adds to player options while retaining the ability to play only one Pokemon if you want. If you choose to do so, you'll also get all the added benefits that I listed in the above paragraph with the character slots on the CSS.


@Steeler
I'm talking strictly Brawl+. I understand how you want the to be able to still get better at VB while playing Brawl+, but in the end that won't be a consideration in Brawl+. The standard codeset will be made to deal with an entirely Brawl+ metagame, with no regard for VB. If you play Brawl+, you'll get better at Brawl+. Getting better at VB will mean playing VB.
For the sake of this argument, though, I'm talking strictly Brawl+. And in that scenario, it's good-bye stamina.

 

[Steeler]

oh, well for Brawl+, hell yeah take stamina off in all cases.

i just hope there is still a code for those who want to use different versions of PT like me, so I can still play solo Poke and stamina/switch PT at the same time. which there is, so it's all good.

 

[Ryusuta]

I think option 1 is still the best so far. I love this topic, by the way.

 

[Retro Gaming]

I've made a poll for this thread. Don't actually post in it. I'm sure WeirdoZ will add this link to the first post later so it doesn't get lost.

You don't really have to wait until then, though. You can vote now.

Poll

 

[Alopex]

I went and voted, but your CSS vote option doesn't specify how the PT will be treated in that scenario, which is the main focus of this entire discussion. So the voting options aren't all accurate.

 

[Ryusuta]

Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Link to poll added to the top of the OP.

@Alopex: I requested the poll before this discussion took off, so I apologise if it's missing options. I originally intended the CSS option means that the Trainer has one slot and the Trainer independent PKMN have 3 separate slots, not thinking about how the Trainer should be treated in terms of the Stamina and Auto-swap. I guess after voting for the CSS, you could say how you want the Trainer to be treated here, either stating No Stamina, No Auto-Swap, both, or none.


Edit: I just remembered a (now) genius idea someone either suggested in this thread or another one. What if you had the option of preventing the Auto-Swap mid battle? Like holding shield (or something) as you got KO'd or before you get re-spawned. Would people like that as an option?

 

[Retro Gaming]

I would personally love that as an option. Anything that lets you choose between standard PT and a "new" PT at the same time is excellent. Or perhaps holding down a certain button before respawn would yield which Pokemon came out next? All three options would be available all the time, which would take care of "No switch on death" at the same time as this other idea.