Chain Jacketed Windbox

[fromundaman]

Right, so I read the stickies and learned about the chain jacket, and was messing around with it yesterday and tried to jacket the explosion from Vanish. What I got instead was a windbox on the chain from the reappearance. I could see this being useful as an edgeguard to prevent the enemy from grabbing/regrabbing the ledge by dangling the chain there.

Sorry if this is known (and it probably is), but I didn't see it on the guides, nor have I seen it in any games, so A) Is this known, and B) Is it useful?

I would have put this in a Q&A thread, but you guys don't seem to have one...

 

[#HBC | Scary]

You know, that is a really good question! I've never thought of doing that, and that would be tremendous if that worked. I'll try and test that ASAP.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I have to say that is a great idea. I often tried jacketing attacks and then edgeguarding with them, but it never really occured to me to try that.

The only problem with jacketing is that timing it can be really hard, and with music and character noises and such it's hard to know when it works. I suppose this way, though, even if it doesn't work it won't make a difference.

I'll do some testing. If anyone wants to play some WiFi friendlies to help me test this out or just whatever PM me.

I'll get back to you though fromundaman.

 

[MyCurse4Life]

Nice question because I don't get it. (usually I get everything)

 

[silver0p]

I saw on a video a guy who chain jacketed the end part of the chain. When he jacketed it in every spot it hit it had the same effect as hitting someone with the tip every time. Seeing how the tip can cancel more moves then like normal chain.

1. Do you think its possible for it to be even a harder for your opponent to cancel it due to the slight stun by the tip.

2. Does the tip stop items?

 

[Villi]

silver, could you repost the video?

I think that you are talking about the short hopped chain. You get a stronger hitbox on the inside parts of the chain with more knockback than a ground released chain, but it doesn't have the electric stun effect from the tip unless you actually hit with the tip.

I'm fairly disinterested in chain jacket tactics... unless somehow an easier method than frame perfect timing is developed to achieve it.

 

[silver0p]

Sure i can but it might take me a while to find it cuz i saw it a really long time ago.

 

[FrozenFire13]

This could be either a totally pointless discovery, or it could be tremendous to Shiek's game. This needs testing. Hard testing.

 

[Tristan_win]

Haha, I've jacked the chain once or twice with the vanish all of which by accident.

For the most part doing so has really screwed me over as I was expecting to hit them with the chain only to push them back by a little amount. Although this one time I was fighting Jigglypuff and I accidentally jacked the wind and he couldn't get to me for sooo long. I just kept pushing him out of range for almost a whole minute before screwing up from laughter

....ahh laughter johns.

Anyways yes this could be used as a great edge guarder especially since the wind effect does not count as a attack so they wont get back their up B, meanwhile it would push any up B it run into backwards a bit. Sadly for how hard it is to set up the move that sent them away will have to be a vanish because doing a ground vanish takes over a second to do + the time it takes to short hop into chain. The only problem with this is that the vanish sends people upwards and away so doing this will be rare unless against the weaker recovers.

Edit: Please prove me wrong, I would really like to see the jacked chain being extremely useful for something.

 

[demonictoonlink]

The set-up for Chain Jacket just seems way too intense to be practical. Nonetheless, interesting thought

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I also just finished testing. I wish there was a way to get a bit more of a wind push because it seems very minimal to me. Against some matchups it'll definitely be very helpful, but regarding the chain jacket, perhaps getting the Usmash jacket could put people away.

I think this has some potential to it but it needs more testing.

 

[Flamingo]

Guys, a vertically recovering Jigglypuff will die from a regualar chain baing dangled over the edge. I confirmed that yesterday morning vs my friend whose secondary is Jiggles. If jiggles is horizontally recovering, then he can pound (Side+B) you out of the chain with its ridiculous priority. But from the bottom, he's screwed. I find this better vs Jigglypuff than the vanish wind jacketed one.

Ideas. Vanish wind-jacketed chain vs yoshi's recovery? LONGSHOT: Can it push away a recovering MK Tornado off the screen? Possibly use it when people are in free-fall animation to push them off the screen to their death? (Kind of redundant because this is an excellent Fair gimping opprotunity). Just throwing things out there guys even if they sound ridiculous..

Maybe will activate 2:30 in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRzuZ0hmcAE

Orrrr this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL2cfGMPY8I

(You guys probably have seen these already)

 

[silver0p]

i feel like we have stumbled upon a pandoras box, in a good way at least

 

[Flamingo]

I must admit,i'm a little skeptical about this, and I have heard about it before, but I'm trying to give my two cents worth, Sheik needs anything she can get eh?

 

[fromundaman]

Meh, I kind of figured since I just picked up Shiek, te fact I had trouble doing it was more due to the fact that I was unused to the character (Like for Ganon's FoG, Yoshi's DR, or Pika's QAC). Ah well, hopefully it can help. I was just thinking if they et knocked far offscreen, we would have time for an empty vanish/wind jacket. I also see this as being potentially useful against plankers who aren't expecting it, but then, I dunno... maybe not. This is why I ask you guys to look into it.

 

[silver0p]

The only problem with this is that the vanish sends people upwards and away so doing this will be rare unless against the weaker recovers.

Is it possible to do a vanish that some how sends people down instead of up?

And what if we some hwo got the explostion part jacketed? Explosions every where!

 

[Flamingo]

And what if we some hwo got the explostion part jacketed? Explosions every where!

Oooh I gots a crazy idea. I dont have a wii on me to test... how about you use vanish to suicide where the explosion hurtbox appears on-screen, but teleport outside he blast zone to death before the wind appears... Spawn... Chain Jacket... Explosions appear? Or does death reset this? Or does the wind get jacketed anyway?

 

[silver0p]

haha wow im excited to find out the results of this... haha what if it resulted in "DEATH" because you just killed your self! (j.k)

 

[Flamingo]

Haha true, like but it would be worth muchos of explosions surrounding Sheik! haha. What if she glitched and became in mid-vanish... like invisible while holding the chain... that would be cooool!

 

[FrozenFire13]

In all seriousness, can this please be tested? I can't do it right now, or so help me God, I would. Does anyone know how on earth that vanish wind glitch happens? Is there any way to exploit it? Or do people even know how it works yet?

 

[fromundaman]

Well, the chain jacket takes the last hitbox out, and the wind from vanish apparently counts as a no damage hitbox. The cool part is that the wind is out for as long as the chain is (though it makes using the chain a little more difficult it seems since it appears the wind pushes back on the chain as well, though that might just be my imagination.).

I would test it, but since I picked up Shiek about a week ago, I kind of suck at her and feel I probably shouldn't be the one testing this (since well, I suck and am bound to mess it up).

 

[Flamingo]

That's funny. Sheik's Vanish Wind having effect upon the use of her own chain. I never would have thought of that.

 

[FrozenFire13]

I must test this. Nobody else is. I will test later tonight.

 

[silver0p]

i would test it but i can never seem to get the chain jacket right. we should get one of thoughs Home Run Contest dude to test it cuz there good at getting that set up with sheik and the homerun bat jacketed

 

[Conclusively]

Guys, a vertically recovering Jigglypuff will die from a regualar chain baing dangled over the edge. I confirmed that yesterday morning vs my friend whose secondary is Jiggles. If jiggles is horizontally recovering, then he can pound (Side+B) you out of the chain with its ridiculous priority. But from the bottom, he's screwed. I find this better vs Jigglypuff than the vanish wind jacketed one.

Ideas. Vanish wind-jacketed chain vs yoshi's recovery? LONGSHOT: Can it push away a recovering MK Tornado off the screen? Possibly use it when people are in free-fall animation to push them off the screen to their death? (Kind of redundant because this is an excellent Fair gimping opprotunity). Just throwing things out there guys even if they sound ridiculous..

Maybe will activate 2:30 in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRzuZ0hmcAE

Orrrr this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL2cfGMPY8I

(You guys probably have seen these already)

First Vid is something to do with if Marth is moved during Dancing Blade [Last Hit], that happens. I think phanna has a vid of it on Pictochat or something, so it could be that. The second vid, um.. I don't know what happened there.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I've done the chain wind jacket a few times with the wind and it's really only useful on attacks without a really disjointed hitbox. Unless I'm doing it wrong, most of MK's recovery moves still make it back to the stage; although it becomes more difficult. I have no video to prove this since I have nothing to record with sadly. I do think this could be nice against some characters like maybe G&W or a few others.

 

[Flamingo]

First Vid is something to do with if Marth is moved during Dancing Blade [Last Hit], that happens. I think phanna has a vid of it on Pictochat or something, so it could be that. The second vid, um.. I don't know what happened there.

The slanted Pictochat edges are very interesting. It makes us not be able to land when in freefall from our recovery, it makes us fall when charging needles, and if a Zelda uses Din's Fire on the slanted edge, she will fall and die. Chain jacketing the windbox on the edges here might be of use and push people off these hard-to-land-on edges. I know Sheik and Zelda has problems, that's why I don't pick Pictochat, but other characters might have similar problems such as these I have listed. Just some food for thought for our testers.

 

[rinoH]

this would be a great idea

 

[silver0p]

i just had a thought... didnt some where in stingers guide say that the chains attack counts as one so no matter how many attackes you did it was onyl consiterd as one?

well what if you whiped it out and just hit nuthing for a while then jaket it and would you get the same dammage out put as you would from all the attacks combined?

i highly dought this will work due to different hit boxs but maybe they changed something so the hit boxes always stay as one idk. well i think its worth testing cuz if so then you could like give someone 100 damage in one hit!

just something for you guys who are testing this to try out

(maybe it would work if you short hoped the chain first. or is it possibnle to chain jacket a chain jacket? would it have the same attack as the one you previously jacketed or would it go back to defult?)

 

[FrozenFire13]

Well I have done some testing with the GW theory, and it turns out that GW's aerial momentum makes it almost impossible for him to not recover. It is very possible that I am just not whipping the chain in the proper fashion though. I have only done a small amount of testing because of school starting. I wish to test more, and I will. I will try to keep updated here if nobody else is testing.

i just had a thought... didnt some where in stingers guide say that the chains attack counts as one so no matter how many attackes you did it was onyl consiterd as one?

well what if you whiped it out and just hit nuthing for a while then jaket it and would you get the same dammage out put as you would from all the attacks combined?

i highly dought this will work due to different hit boxs but maybe they changed something so the hit boxes always stay as one idk. well i think its worth testing cuz if so then you could like give someone 100 damage in one hit!

just something for you guys who are testing this to try out

(maybe it would work if you short hoped the chain first. or is it possibnle to chain jacket a chain jacket? would it have the same attack as the one you previously jacketed or would it go back to defult?)

I'm pretty sure that it will just stay the same damage output. I think the hitbox stays the same damage, and as one hitbox. I have not tested this yet, however, and am curious myself. More later.

 

[Syko_Lemming]

What happens if you use any attack as zelda, then change to sheik and preform a chainjacket?
Zelda d-tilts would be fun in chain form.

 

[silver0p]

OMG! dude thats like why didnt i think about that! this must be tested if so this could lead to an enormas amout of new cain jacket possiblitys!

(then again it could be reset due to transformation. or maybe transform has an invisable hit box? )

 

[Syko_Lemming]

Transform doesn't have a hitbox, it just makes you disappear. So maybe you would disappear or become invincible.

But the idea of chain jacket lightning kick is awesome.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

i may actually have to use chainjacket if this is possible

 

[silver0p]

haha jackie you should make a video about chain jackets i bet id be legendary

 

[JackieRabbit5]

XD lol hmm we'll see not makin any promises

 

[FrozenFire13]

What happens if you use any attack as zelda, then change to sheik and preform a chainjacket?
Zelda d-tilts would be fun in chain form.

Transform doesn't have a hitbox, it just makes you disappear. So maybe you would disappear or become invincible.

But the idea of chain jacket lightning kick is awesome.

Brilliant. I'm adding this to my testing. It's the weekend now, so I'll have plenty of time and opportunity. If somebody else finds something, post it. This could potentially move Shiek up the tier list. Not that I necessarily want that, but to anybody else who does, I'm just throwing that out there. Jacketed lightning kicks? Epic win.

 

[silver0p]

or zeldas down air it could create a spike for like edge gaurding!

 

[Tristan_win]

Hate to be Captain Buzz kill here but...

**Chain Jacket Facts**

- You can ONLY jacket SHEIK'S moves. You cannot jacket's Zelda's moves.
- You CANNOT jacket projectiles. (Includes Needles, ray guns, super scopes, any item that shoot a projectile)
- You CANNOT jacket Down-B (Transform).
~
By stealthsushi

Where are you stealthsushi where are you....

 

[stealth3654]

If you vanish and grab the ledge, so no wind is created, and do the chain jacket, would you get the vanish hit box?