CF's tier issues<

[Wogrim]

The thing I'd like to see is A Doubles Tier List, like for teams. Most people i play with tend to think Falcon is a HELL of a lot better at Teams than he is singles, and I definitely agree. We all know he can rack up damage pretty quickly; it's KOing he has a little trouble with. Plus, landing the knee is a lot easier when two opponents are flying around the stage. My teammate even holds them sometimes and will say to me "I got him. Knee. Now".

My teammate uses DK, and at first he didn't want me using falcon in teams, but he likes it now; we've won the last two money matches we've played, one against a snake and a Zamus, another against an olimar and a metaknight.

I think falcon is good in teams...imo anyway.

A team tier list sounds good, but I think it would make more sense for the team as a whole to be ranked, not individual characters. Falcon could be great with some characters but not so good with others.

 

[chewyy]

umm, wouldn't that be over 600 different teams? >_>

[edit] : I mean I'd like one, but I don't think it's going to happen

 

[Wogrim]

umm, wouldn't that be over 600 different teams? >_>

[edit] : I mean I'd like one, but I don't think it's going to happen

It's over 1000 different teams, so obviously you'd want some way to rate combinations since going through a list would be crazy.

 

[The Real Inferno]

For the record, my Falcon PAUNCHES Marths for Breakfast.

Speaking of Marth. Marth/Falcon is a pretty good doubles combo in my opinion. It's worked out great for me the past. Marth has very nice Grab Release into Reverse Falcon Punch action going on (with aquickgrab pummelto help add a little extra percentage on before hand) ANd he also protects Falcon with his priority, allowing the Captain to dart around the battlefield and actually put his speed to good use with pot shots "Spikes of Nipply Manliness".

 

[BEES]

I think having less bad matchups is more important than having more good ones. If a matchup is even, at least you can win if you're better.

In that regard, Falcon might not be the worst character. Ganondorf has more hard counters.

 

[PKSkyler]

I never said I want Captain Falcon to be the worst. In fact, I think we all wish he was higher.

And he doesnt do completly suckey against everyone, I think he has at least 10 neutrals.

 

[talkingbeatles]

I never said I want Captain Falcon to be the worst. In fact, I think we all wish he was higher.

And he doesnt do completly suckey against everyone, I think he has at least 10 neutrals.

I wish I knew what those ten neutrals were.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Ike may be one, serious. But 10? Eh...

 

[The Real Inferno]

Hmm IMO CF does okay against (and by okay I mean: Doesn't get ***** quite so bad by): Ganon, himself, Squirtle, Ike, Link, Jiggz, Bowser. But I feel everything else is an uphill battle.

 

[Ayaz18]

I never said I want Captain Falcon to be the worst. In fact, I think we all wish he was higher.

And he doesnt do completly suckey against everyone, I think he has at least 10 neutrals.

lolololololololololololololol

 

[Wogrim]

Characters that I think could end up (like in a year or more) being considered neutrals for C. Falcon, based on experience and how much potential I think they have in their moves:

Ganon: slow as can be, Ganon is fairly comboable for Falcon due to his slow moveset, although he will be quite difficult if he knows his shielding and dodging well
Link: fairly slow, fairly punishable; Link's got a couple moves that can be tough to deal with, but once you get past his camping game, he doesn't have much in the way of speed to hold you off if he misses
Samus: pretty much just like Link; ZAir can be a pain, but the missiles are pretty slow, as are her melee attacks
Jigglypuff: poor range; I have very little experience with Jiggs but it seems like the fight should be like Kirby without having to worry about the up-B, neutral-B, and Hammer. I'm not sure if Jiggs can gimp with DAir like Kirby does
C. Falcon: uh yeah, should be obvious
Yoshi: again, not much experience. I've heard Yoshi is pretty gimpable with footstools, but has some combos that could give you trouble. The biggest problems are supposedly BAir, DAir, and pivot grabs
Squirtle: currently a lot of disagreement on this one, but Squirtle's range isn't that great. If you can avoid getting combo'd and getting grabbed for a relatively low percent throw kill, you should do fine
Peach: Peach has a couple really good combos that involve glide tosses, her floating is really good, and her FAir is pretty much unbeatable, but otherwise not a tough fight
Mario: Mario's aerials can combo you all over, his cape can gimp you pretty badly, and his fireballs are sometimes really annoying, but I could see him as neutral due to the poor range on almost all of his moves
Ike: Ike's UAir is almost unavoidable if he times it right, and he can kill you at ridiculously low percents, but he is ridiculously slow in most of his moves. Avoid laggy moves so he can't punish you with anything too powerful and you'll do fine
Luigi: Luigi is a lot like Mario, but instead of gimping capabilities he has much better recovery
Lucario: Lucario's got some mean disjointed hitboxes, but none of his moves except DAir seem particularly powerful, so he could end up being neutral
Sonic: used to be fairly difficult for me, but jabs beat almost every approach. Definately not particularly hard
Wario: grab release stuff may evolve enough for this to be a fair matchup
G&W: very light, and FAir and BAir can often be punished if they miss. Knowing his moves very well will help you see what's coming, because he's not very fast
Zelda: pretty good moves, but they have enough ending lag to punish. A lot of baiting and you can win these
Diddy: recovery has long enough startup to edgegaurd effectively, the problem is how well he and you use bananas. From what I remember Dash attack picks them up (which really helps).
Lucas: DSmash and USmash are pretty strong but very laggy. PK Fire doesn't hold you like Ness's, which gives it a lot less potential than Ness's. Also seems to have a weaker aerial game. It's very hard for him to catch you with PK Freeze, and even if he does you can break out pretty fast. Punishing his PK Thunder instead of getting hit by it is very important.
Fox: As far as I've seen Fox is like Falco but weaker in almost every aspect, and his non-interrupting laser is almost useless against Falcon, who can close the gap pretty fast. Shine can't really gimp Falcon unless you second jump into it, since Falcon Dive always seems to grab him

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Wow, nice. You should put this info in the matchups thread. I don't see G&W being very neutral but you make some good points.

 

[Ayaz18]

o.k i disagree with Wogrim with G&W mostly

I just fought him in a tourny and seriously 90% of my moves were out prioritized, and his Bair and Fair were hard to punish cause they can do the "poke and run" technique with his aerials

i CAN argue with other match up's but im way to lazy

 

[SmashBrother2008]

G&W out prioritized 90% of your moves? Geez. You guys must have been attacking eachother at the exact same time for the entire match or something... How many attacks do you normally throw out as opposed to shields/dodges or grabs?

 

[Zeallyx]

G&W out prioritized 90% of your moves? Geez. You guys must have been attacking eachother at the exact same time for the entire match or something... How many attacks do you normally throw out as opposed to shields/dodges or grabs?

I think he means 90 % of the attacks that hit eachother..

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Then there shouldn't be TOO much of a problem since the amount of attacks that hit eachother is typically small. But yeah, G&W is a hard matchup.

 

[Zeallyx]

Then there shouldn't be TOO much of a problem since the amount of attacks that hit eachother is typically small. But yeah, G&W is a hard matchup.

yes, yes he is a hard matchup

 

[Noodlehead]

yes, yes he is a hard matchup

i hate his stupid dsmash spike

 

[•Col•]

Uh... I disagree with your Lucario statement... His u-air, b-air, and even n-air are pretty strong once he gets up some percent... So are his smash attack... And even his throws... Not to mention that Lucario has large disjointed hitboxes on almost all of his moves, and one of the only characters in the game that can perform "true combos"...

 

[Ayaz18]

G&W out prioritized 90% of your moves? Geez. You guys must have been attacking eachother at the exact same time for the entire match or something... How many attacks do you normally throw out as opposed to shields/dodges or grabs?

smashbros, im playing smash at a competitive level, are you?

seriously when your playing competitive you dodge when you can see an attack, not because your opponent MIGHT attack (wi-fi is a different story) otherwise your defending for no reason and destroying your shield

 

[<π]

All of C.Falc's match ups are pretty rough on paper. All. you have to play with your opponents head and force wait for openings since you can't just jump in and make them. Falcon is fast but he doesn't have enough priority to just run in and gun with his attacks. Brawl falcon has to be a patenit falcon too succeed in most of his match ups.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

smashbros, im playing smash at a competitive level, are you?

seriously when your playing competitive you dodge when you can see an attack, not because your opponent MIGHT attack (wi-fi is a different story) otherwise your defending for no reason and destroying your shield

Haven't we already determined that I'm at a lesser competitive level than you? Yes, I'm on here to contribute to Falcon and learn some new tricks. I don't go to very many tourneys at all. When I play people I wait for openings in thier strategy where I can throw in some damage. Other than that, yes, I dodge and roll alot just to be safe. That doesn't detract from the shield very much. And it doesn't mean that I play casual either. I just end up avoiding more attacks that way. I play more... "hardcore" than flat out "competitive-have fun by winning".