Central Florida Brawl PR THREAD

[2-DJeff]

Florida should take note of the Texas PR system http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226443
and figure out a way to use that as a means to rank the players in the state. This will allow for a bigger list and players will be able to track there growth over time and be able to have see able goals for example pass the person that is a few points ahead of them.

also if this is rejected get me on the panel i am a very active smasher and have played all over fl this year as far north as Gainsville in Feb and down to west palm beach twice i also have hosted my own tourneys with over 30 attendance each time with players from all over fl except NFL. I would be a Representative of the region that polk county is in or a Representative of the region that Ft Myers is in because i have developed a scene in both areas

Honestly if we do it this way we should comebine with all of FL but when we use this system we should have one big tournement like every 3months for this system so that if you wanna get ranked you find a way to the tourney you got 3months to get a ride no johns.. this is a suggestion for Combined PRs not just CFL

 

[SN Viper]

Honestly if we do it this way we should comebine with all of FL but when we use this system we should have one big tournement like every 3months for this system so that if you wanna get ranked you find a way to the tourney you got 3months to get a ride no johns.. this is a suggestion for Combined PRs not just CFL

I am in love with that system

also i have not posted the thread yet but in december i will be hosting the next Holy Smash so that will be a big one and will get the state together.

 

[Exdeath]

----gallax----
2 wins vs gdx
2 wins vs hbox
2 wins vs tony
1 win vs raz
1 win vs snipa
1 win vs dtorr
1 win vs tommy g
2 wins vs xdeath
1 win vs kyon


----tony----
2 win vs gdx
2 win vs kyon
1 win vs fearless

----kyon----
1 win vs ed
1 win vs radix
who else has kyon *****?


----xdeath----
1 win vs kyon

To add/correct to this, Gallax has only beaten me once -- not twice (R.O.B./G&W vs. Snake 0-2), Radix has beaten me once (Meta Knight vs. Falco/Snake 1-2), and Kyon has beaten me once (Meta Knight vs. Peach/Meta Knight 0-2). I also have a win against D-Torr at NLL (Meta Knight vs. ZSS 2-1).

Seeing how poor my record is really inspired me.

Also, I support Viper for being an FL panelist. He is has helped the community grow a considerable amount, especially looking at how his local scene(s) have grown, he travels to SFL, CFL, and NFL, and he is one of -- if not the best -- the best TOs in FL.

 

[Aglow]

I would support having Viper as a panelist if he maintains his pace of TOing. He does an excellent job of keeping track of W/L and whatnot.

I would like to say that I have a recent tourney win over D-torr (1-0), and go more than even with Ed. Redhalberd and Mampam will vouch that I have the next most consistant placings outside of Tampa.

This is mentioned not to push for a PR spot (if such a PR is to come to fruition), but to request an honorable mention, if you follow exarch's sugestion and impliment such a thing.

 

[2-DJeff]

I am in love with that system

also i have not posted the thread yet but in december i will be hosting the next Holy Smash so that will be a big one and will get the state together.

sounds good right? the thing is it should reset every year so that when new players join FL they get a chance

 

[SN Viper]

sounds good right? the thing is it should reset every year so that when new players join FL they get a chance

dude if we use this system any tweaks to make it better would be great

 

[2-DJeff]

dude if we use this system any tweaks to make it better would be great

tats cool with me im not really tripping about PRs i just like to give advice in game play and stuff. it would be nice to be on it but im not really worried to much

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

This thing sure is causing slot more drama than I thought XD

 

[Exdeath]

This is mentioned not to push for a PR spot (if such a PR is to come to fruition), but to request an honorable mention, if you follow exarch's sugestion and impliment such a thing.

This is why Seibrik is against Honorable Mentions, and I agree with him. It hurts the incentive of getting onto the PRs and it doesn't really add anything to the list.

 

[SN Viper]

whats going on with this

 

[exarch]

Actually that's not true at all Xdeath: it gives more people the hope to make the list faster, but at the same time making honorable mention is not satisfaction enough for those people who make it. It has no negative effects, unless you think recognizing more people for hard work is negative.


Anyways my main point for this post is to ask why don't y'all do a FL rankings with a CFL based panel? You can still include the CFL only rankings as far as i'm concerned, but having a list as y'all see it as (without the icys and others) might send a good message to SFL.
And if it doesn't I'm more than willing to include both of your versions as the "official FL pr."
Try to make a fair panel and do them, then I'd be willing to replace one with the other.

So it'd be like
1kirbies flipped around
2hrnut
3halberd
4jokes zss
5e-ternalsamichu
6mampam
7rapidly shaking ness
8gallax
9coeighteen
10gdx
or whatever. avoiding namesearching.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Good idea Exarch.

To add on that, how about this thread be allowed to keep our records in here and then when Florida is ready to make a revision for the PRs, we could use this thread as support. That way, it's not truly a rankings thread but we, as CFL, can archive our tournies and such.

That's just incase SFL does decide to cooperate like you say they should.

 

[Exdeath]

Actually that's not true at all Xdeath: it gives more people the hope to make the list faster, but at the same time making honorable mention is not satisfaction enough for those people who make it. It has no negative effects, unless you think recognizing more people for hard work is negative.


Anyways my main point for this post is to ask why don't y'all do a FL rankings with a CFL based panel? You can still include the CFL only rankings as far as i'm concerned, but having a list as y'all see it as (without the icys and others) might send a good message to SFL.
And if it doesn't I'm more than willing to include both of your versions as the "official FL pr."
Try to make a fair panel and do them, then I'd be willing to replace one with the other.

So it'd be like
1kirbies flipped around
2hrnut
3halberd
4jokes zss
5e-ternalsamichu
6mampam
7rapidly shaking ness
8gallax
9coeighteen
10gdx
or whatever. avoiding namesearching.

Part of FL's appeal in Brawl is that those on the PR are largely unrecognizable to those outside of Florida, but those recognized on the PR are capable of making a proverbial splash at virtually any tournament that they appear in. An FL PR should only change by removing Masky and Snipa, adding GDX, and then adding either Xaltis or MVD IMO.

I think that recognizing people for half-hearted work is negative. People on the HMs -- especially in FL can easily console themselves with their HM. For example, I would likely be an HM for a CFL PR, but my notable wins are relatively small and I know that it would definitely hurt my motivation as far as PRs go as motivation. Obviously not everyone is the same as me, but I'm providing myself as a counter-example.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

yea im thinking if you guys dont think the PR matches will help the cfl representation and STILL insist on making a seperate PR for some reason, i will include it in the FL pr thread, under the FL PRs.


That sound fair? really shouldn't waste thread space with two PR threads for fl

 

[Aglow]

I think that recognizing people for half-hearted work is negative. People on the HMs -- especially in FL can easily console themselves with their HM.

Half Hearted work? I can name at least ten skilled players that could be HM, and nothing they are doing could be considered Half-hearted. People on HM would be people shooting for PR. Try not drowning in swamp***** pools before judging players proficiency.

 

[gallax]

This is just getting stupid. U guys in SFL just cant see it our way at all. I see it your way try to see it our way.

 

[Exdeath]

Seibrik is trying to compromise, and no one is contributing to his end of the discussion.

For the PR match system, I feel that there should be some prohibitive nature to prevent everyone at a tournament from playing HRNut twice every tournament. Money matches use cost as the prohibition, for example.

Also, it may be a good idea for a target of coverage to be set (e.g. CFL's present top 10 players play 1 match with SFL's present top 10 players).

Half Hearted work? I can name at least ten skilled players that could be HM, and nothing they are doing could be considered Half-hearted. People on HM would be people shooting for PR. Try not drowning in swamp***** pools before judging players proficiency.

Your vague generalities aside, I doubt that my poor placing at Holy Smash Exodus nullifies my argument for getting rid of Honorable Mentions. HMs give an equal token rank; I would be given the same rank as Razek, despite Razek clearly being the better player.

 

[xYz]

im coming backk for my #2 spot... lmao so long ago.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I really appreciate the PM to give me an update on what's going on. I did quite a bit of reading/scanning over the normal FL rankings thread. From what I could tell SFL seemed to want to keep FL as one rankings (since they don't feel shafted) while CFL wanted the separation, with a number of exceptions.

I think the most compelling argument is to keep FL united.

If y'all do separate, I think it will create a division that won't be easily reconciled. While we are a semi-divided state already, we are still FLians and root for each other. If we separate in rankings, it will become representing your regions over your state when you go to national tournaments.

The CFL rankings kinda identifies you as a "B Team." While the idea is to allow for more CFL players to be on the list, it takes away from the validity of that list, to the point where you'd probably be doing more harm than good. It also gives the impression that CFL players have a big head and want to be on top of the list. If they can't make it themselves "through hard work," they'll make their own list. Makes you look very arrogant. Other communities who do not know of the "SFL bias" will get this impression.

That said, believe me I know it is impossible to get an unbiased overview of FL's scene, I was well enough involved with the Melee community for those years. And I certainly understand the SFL bias.

It is obvious that there is a problem with the current rankings. Obvious from the fact that CFL is so unhappy with them that they are willing to separate. SFL needs to be willing to compromise in at least one of the following ways:

• There needs to be more than 3 panelists. I was shocked when I saw that 3 people ranked the whole state, with little consideration as to where they were from. With a state as large as ours we definitely need to approach with a house of representatives over senate appraoch. 5 people MINIMUM on the rankings, from each of the major areas of FL (SEFL,SWFL,MEFL,MWFL,NFL.) More than that is ok too. 3 is way too few. I guess their idea is to get total agreement on rankings between the panelists, but that's not how these things work. Power Rankings are one huge compromise which means that nobody gets what they want. Everyone suffers a little.
• The way the rankings structure works needs to change. SFL has no good argument against the difficulty for a new CFL player to make the rankings when all they have available is HRNUT and Halberd to play. If 4 new people joined the CFL scene and started beating everyone, they would not make the list but HRNUT and Halberd would be taken off. Tourney records should be used to supplement panelists opinions--not to form them. Hopefully their opinions are based on personal experience playing the person. "Travel Moar" is not a good counter-arguement to this.
• There should be a disclaimer about potential bias in the rankings in the introduction to the thread. OOSers should be able to understand that FL is very difficult to rank overall, so there's no guarentee that the list is accurate. The FL rankings should be forward with that probability, and not try to pass themselves as the word of God.
• There should be a list of honorable mentions/up and comers. This expands the list (which honestly should be more than 10 anyways,) without requiring definite ranking. Keep top 10 and maybe honorable 5-7 others. Expand to 15 and honorable 5-10 others. This suggestion should be done in conjunction with some of the others, not by itself as it does not really address the heart of the issue.

Preferrably all of these should be followed. Definitely one of them. SFL says they want to keep FL united, they need to be willing to back that up with some action.

If the "FL Panel" is not willing to compromise with any of these suggestions (or others you may come up with which are better than mine,) I'll allow the CFL rankings. Although I personally think you should just put out CFL's version of the FL rankings--supervised by HRNUT--that would be a much better way to send a message to SFL. Remember the only thing that makes the FL rankings official is just their claim.

In case anyone missed this.

 

[gallax]

Id be willing to settle for a top10+ honorable mentioned

 

[2-DJeff]

im coming backk for my #2 spot... lmao so long ago.

*** number 2 get number 1

 

[SN Viper]

**** the current pr system use TX pr system its better

 

[2-DJeff]

**** the current pr system use TX pr system its better

you going to WATO?

 

[SN Viper]

you going to WATO?

no man am coming up sunday night i was wondering if you wanted to chill and play a bit since apopka is close to lake alfred

 

[2-DJeff]

no man am coming up sunday night i was wondering if you wanted to chill and play a bit since apopka is close to lake alfred

on monday probably i got work on sunday man sorry =/

 

[Aglow]

You're right xdeath, your placing doesn't have anything to do with it. I was just rattled that you used my modest post as an example of why this PR was a bad idea. The concept of even an HM motivates me, and from there I would want to shoot for the PR.

I'm really not sure where I stand on the whole split thing.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

lol why would sfl \ mods \ whoever care that cfl has their own pr thread

like seriously why care its 1 thread

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

i like the brain storming going on, i'm actually neutral on the point of whether or not we should have HMs or not, i understand both sides so i have no say so on that.

We do however need to decide on a solid panel for CFL and i thank you for the great suggestion exarch but i'd rather we keep it this way, like fear said its one thread.

and my favorite point in your post exarch was when you mentioned that if someone came and started beating everyone and how incorrectly they would be represented

I even recall one season where i lost to almost no one and i still couldn't get above brik because of how often he got to play higher ranked people, i even beat him having a 1-0 record but i still couldn't achieve that No. 1 spot for the exact reason why i am making this thread, we just have a much harder time making it on (higher) than they do. For all my work i moved up 1 spot...

and thanks to Esam's tournaments Esam will be moving up because he beats riddle and brik more often cuz he plays them more often

 

[SN Viper]

HRNUT how do you feel about the TX pr system? i can try to answer any of your questions

 

[Toneh]

pr matches wouldnt work. Why would a top player wana do pr matches with someone when hes gonna wanna do friendlies and MM's with other pr players and get better practice. Plus he has nothing to gain for it if he wins. Its just not gonna happen at a reg. tournament

 

[SN Viper]

what do we want(we as in a whole CFL) from SFL in regards to a PR list ?

 

[NickRiddle]

pr matches wouldnt work. Why would a top player wana do pr matches with someone when hes gonna wanna do friendlies and MM's with other pr players and get better practice. Plus he has nothing to gain for it if he wins. Its just not gonna happen at a reg. tournament

PR matches are just MMs.
Specific ones.
That's why. If you guys wanna MM me, go again, I'll take the money. If I lose, it's just losing a normal MM to me.

 

[Toneh]

PR matches are just MMs.
Specific ones.
That's why. If you guys wanna MM me, go again, I'll take the money. If I lose, it's just losing a normal MM to me.

does it have to be a specific amount? or anything

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

no it shouldn't involve money, its an opportunity to fight a PR member that you didn't have a chance to fight in tournament.

Not everyone comes to tournaments with a bunch of money wanting to mm. If it is like a dollar or two that's fine but 5/10/20 is outrageous for a shot at the PR, those are entry fees to tournaments......so unless its 1 or 2 bucks then no it should be free.

Personally i'll do it without the need of money being involved because i'm not gonna limit someone's ability to play based on how much money they have in their pockets.

 

[Toneh]

yeah i would prefer no money, but then it wouldn't work bc if the pr person wins he gets nothing but if he loses he can lose pr spots. I guess it would have to be a $1 or 2. Thats if we even use that pr match stuff.

Seems easier to just do the cfl ranking or the texas one

 

[NickRiddle]

no it shouldn't involve money, its an opportunity to fight a PR member that you didn't have a chance to fight in tournament.

Not everyone comes to tournaments with a bunch of money wanting to mm. If it is like a dollar or two that's fine but 5/10/20 is outrageous for a shot at the PR, those are entry fees to tournaments......so unless its 1 or 2 bucks then no it should be free.

Personally i'll do it without the need of money being involved because i'm not gonna limit someone's ability to play based on how much money they have in their pockets.

The complaint was, if those off the PR do not get a chance to play PR members, particularly those from other regions of FL, they can do PR MMs in order to play everybody. I will not play every CFL person when they come down, or when I go up, but if people want to try to get a win against me, they can try to PR MM me.
Otherwise I get nothing for the win, but lower my shot at a high PR spot if I lose.
That doesn't seem fair.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

This is just getting stupid. U guys in SFL just cant see it our way at all. I see it your way try to see it our way.

Explain what your way is please. From what I can tell, you guys are

1. Upset that you have few PR members in your region, therefore cannot get accurate interpretation of your members (At most people can have wins over HRNUT and Halzy, while SFL has Seibrik, Riddle, Myself, Snipa, Chaz, Shaky, and now CO18).

2. Upset that SFL is biased? I don't really get this one. The Panelists just did it by record. The only thing that could be argued as bias is Shaky/Halzy placing, but Halzy is above him...so that isn't true at all.

3. Um...?

Please respond to those with yay/nay + reasoning, and then add anything if I missed so I can give a really detailed response.

 

[exarch]

The SFL "bias" is based on having 2.5 panelists out of 3 from SFL.

I know that none of the panelists intentionally voted higher for their region, but it still looks bad when it's that skewed toward one region.

That's the 'see it from the CFL view.' The SFL view is that you really tried to be honest with rankings and record, which is correct. The CFL view is that 83% of the panel is from SFL, bias cannot be helped in such circumstances, which is also correct. Only having Masky is not the same as having GDX say, "Wait guys. Snipa's good but come on Xaltis is better." Obviously GDX is going to be much more adamant about players from his region than SFL, while SFL players will be more adamant about their own players.

That, as far as I can tell, is the biggest issue CFL has with the PR. It's what they mean when they say "SFL bias." I realize you're trying to be fair, but everyone is biased, no matter what.

And really there is no "counterargument" to this. As much as I know that is a **** thing for me to say, because it pretty much nullifies any response you may have. I know it's not cool, but bear with me for a few more sentences. The point is that regardless of what you may say to try to dispell the belief that the panel is biased, there is still 2.5/3 panelists from SFL. Until that changes, CFLians are going to get the impression that it's biased.

It's really not so much based on the true/false of the bias, but of the appearance of bias. The panel needs to change in appearance.

TL;DR, see above paragraph.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

That's understandable. Thanks for clarifying.



Also, CFL, Xaltis beating your #1/2 player and taking a match off of your other #1/2 and Xaltis is somewhere like #5-6 in SFL isn't making your region look too good.

/trashtalk

But yeah, Sebirik offered panelist jobs to anybody who wanted one. I'm fairly certain NOBODY from CFL wanted it. CO18 used to be one (I think), but he quit. Snipa felt like doing it, as did Masky, so they joined Seibrik and did it. It isn't their fault that nobody from CFL wanted to volunteer. (Correct me if I'm wrong CFL, I really don't know either way)

 

[Masky]

CFL players should just actually help with the PRs instead of being lazy as **** and then complaining about it (and by helping I don't mean just saying "nope cfl da bess" or "boo hoo too much sfl"). Problem solved.

edit: what esam said