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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
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Jul 19, 2006
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Also what are the best approaches in your oppinion ?
This is why I never ask questions anymore and only answer them. All my questions are way to situational to be answered correctly.

This is one of those questions. Other than shffl fair which is pretty much on of the staple apporaches of Marth and dash dance camping. Almost anything else you do should be related to what your opponent is doing/what you think he is doing. You never want to limit your thinking for approaches, it's just makes you predictable.

My 2 cents.
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,686
This is why I never ask questions anymore and only answer them. All my questions are way to situational to be answered correctly.

This is one of those questions. Other than shffl fair which is pretty much on of the staple apporaches of Marth and dash dance camping. Almost anything else you do should be related to what your opponent is doing/what you think he is doing. You never want to limit your thinking for approaches, it's just makes you predictable.

My 2 cents.
Yeah your absolutly right.
I should have asked my question differently... my intention was to ask which options you have for and approach like sh fair, dtilt, ... I know that each approach is situational
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Marth is still Marth, no matter who plays it. Sure, Cactuar's a good player and I'm sure he has valuable things to say, but he still can't tell you to Pound to waveshine into the knee as Marth for the approach. The basics are just basics, overthinking them rarely helps.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
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I usually do just give advice on basic things to people. Occasionally I do post some of my really complex strategies (like my approach vs lasers), but the number of people who can understand it is small and the number of people who can actually implement it is somewhere around 1. Most of my stuff only works for me because I created it all to work for my playstyle and available tech skill.

I understand that most players don't really have the ability to do this the way I can, but beyond basic strategies, the optimal choice is to create your own strategies.
 

IrArby

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Portsmouth VA
Yea people should stop asking questions all the time and just play more too develop their strats that work for them. Asking questions all the time won't make you better all on its own.

. . . .

Hey Cactuar! How do you win and stuff?
 

IrArby

Smash Ace
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Nov 18, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Portsmouth VA
Put that on a Tshirt and people will buy it.

Actual question though not very strategically based. Obvisouly, alot of Marths know how to fair into uptilt if they're looking to bait a badly spaced shieldgrab from thier opponent. My question is, from a frame standpoint, is SHF into SHDF a fairly sound option. In these situations I'd jump by flicking the control stick which puts me back in the air almost immediately and I can keep my spacing since I'm fairing with the Cstick and I can DI back if they don't take the bait.

All of this is assuming I had pretty good spacing from the beginning so even another Marth wouldn't be able to Shieldgrab me hopefully.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
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If you didn't space the fair at tip range, they could shield grab you before your rising fair hit them.

Personally, if you did that on my shield, I would hit you between the shdf's fairs. There is a lot of lag there. Hell, I would probably even jump out and fair you after your first fair. :laugh:
 

IrArby

Smash Ace
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Nov 18, 2007
Messages
883
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Portsmouth VA
Yea on second thought it sounds kinda dumb especially since I wouldn't be able to punish anyone with the second fair anyway as I'd have zero foward momentum in midair. Pardon my stupid question . . . again.
 

Witchking_of_Angmar

Smash Lord
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Jun 5, 2007
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Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
It's not necessarily shffling an aerial through to the other side, it could be anything really. Running through your opponent and doing something is a cross up, EL wrote a big huge post about it somewhere, can't be bothered to find it though. Cactuar was using grabs as a cross up. Run through shield, pivot, grab.
 

Heart Break Kid

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
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Maplewood,NJ
Haha. I dunno, you're style is really different from mine. I main both characters though...

Yeah, I'll play all you want, just pull me aside sometime at a tournament. I'm usually a lot more helpful than like... M2K... :laugh:



Advice and helpful pointers are never a bad thing. HBK isn't as strong in that matchup as I am, so it's not really him letting criticism get to him, he's just looking for tips.

I would just like to say that with this advice Cactuar helped me beat eggm this past weekend. I cnt really find any advice in it but maybe its just his words of encouragement. lmao

In conclusion if Cactuar ever reponds to your questions in thes thread you'll without a doubt overcome all of lifes hardest obstacles. Lol Marth all dai!
 

Killress

Smash Ace
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Aug 23, 2007
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556
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SUNY Geneseo
Is there any situation where SH Fair->Uair would be more useful than SH Double Fair? Is SH Fair->Uair even a viable combination of attacks? I've been fooling around with it for a bit, and I'm curious.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
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I use shfair uair more than shdf. It's better for combos imo, and protects better against aerial approaches by fast characters.
 

whatwhatwhatwhatwhat

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 3, 2007
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106
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Milpitas, CA

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
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Ken was being cocky. M2K was legitimately not playing well at Evo, but no one is going to beat him in a Marth ditto set in tourny, especially not Ken. Ken may have been training against other Marths, but M2K gets cactus training.

"It's super effective!"

That is the necessary Ken image to have though. No one can take his title away from him, as he was the best during the golden years of Melee.
 

Roche_CL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
410
hey, i was first!
help me x_x
:D
i think i've got problems against falcons cause the speed and grabs and combos are so like annoying
against other characters marth can pressure them with spacing and stuff
but falcons.....
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
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6,066
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Sunnyvale, CA
Yeah but he's washed up now and he still parades around like he's the CURRENT and REIGNING king of Smash. He simply isn't. That makes me mad, and to beat him to the punch, yes if he catches wind of this and wants to talk down to me I will MM him.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
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hehe i dont have a question i just think you're sweet cactuar :)

in your opinion, what is the best wayt o escape a fox combo that has a shine in it (example: dair, shine, grab, uthrow, uair, uair ftw)...can you DI away fromt he shine? or what is the best DI out of the uthrow?
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
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Assuming the Fox is good, you can't escape the shine into grab. If they drill you, you can smash DI out of the range of the shine and grab them. I usually DI to the Fox's back from uthrows, then DI forward after the first uair.


For Roche:

Don't nair so much vs Falcon.

:23, don't fsmash at low percent into the stage. Grab.

:38, work on your fluidity, you shouldn't have gotten hit with that fsmash.

:58, again, don't nair so much. Just running under the platform and crouching in the middle would have been better, allowing you to react to his get up and fsmash him.

1:18, don't nair, just wait for the get up and either tipper uair or utilt.

1:23, this is just a moment where you need to know how far your opponent will probably go from your attack so that you can follow it up properly.

1:36, don't utilt out of dash attack at that percent, it's hard to follow. An fsmash from that position would have sent the Falcon decently far off stage to the left.

2:08, you could have just fsmashed again. Fair or nair also would have been a better choice. At high percents, Marth doesn't really do well out of grabs.

2:38, you shouldn't use normal get up vs a Falcon that spams nair. Learn to waveland on stage well, and you can get past him without losing invincibility.

Overall, you really need to work on your awareness of how far a character will be hit at certain percents from whatever attacks, as well as how to follow it up optimally. Vs Falcon, don't try to combo too much, just push him to the edge and hit him off. Your spacing also needs a lot of work. Dash attack is not effective when you hit his shield with the middle of your sword. Well spaced, it is a lot harder to punish.

Your R3 vs one cool was pretty good btw. It looks like you aren't really familiar with how to play on FoD to be honest.
 

Roche_CL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
410
thx a lot cactuar, i was a little nervous on the fight, I tend to attack without thinking and Utilting seems imposible
And i didn't know you could waveland and not be hitten by falcon's Nair, so i was scared to go with a Nair, or getting up with shield, i'll try that next time :D
I really rely too much on edgeguarding falcons, but this guy if you notice, he always got the sweet spot and i couldn't ever Fsmash him or Dtilt him, that didn't happen against one cool xD
Thx a lot for advice :D and for the coment on R3 :D
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
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Corneria, Lylat System
I really rely too much on edgeguarding falcons, but this guy if you notice, he always got the sweet spot and i couldn't ever Fsmash him or Dtilt him, that didn't happen against one cool xD
Thx a lot for advice :D and for the coment on R3 :D
Falcon and Ganon can't sweetspot. Its impossible with their upbs.
 

Rain(ame)

Smash Champion
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Jul 3, 2007
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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
I'll admit...he did seem rather cocky...not even in a funny way like Cactuar, either. I guess I understand why Scar is so upset, lol. I wish I had have known about all of Smash as a whole while it was developing. I'd have actually had people to play.

People with cocky attitudes are the whole reason I give it my all anymore, lol. It's hard to find my competitive edge again, but when I do...those random combos that are like...."What the...where did that come from?" wont be so random anymore, lol. Slowly but surely I'm getting it back. Watch out Scar and Cactuar, :p.

Oh wait...um....I'm supposed to ask Cactuar somehing. Here Goes: how do you help train a Marth? I understand a lot about Marth, but my Marth sucks, lol. I'm training my friend so he can learn Marth. How do I encourage good Marth-like habits?


"Crank that Roy"
"Gimpin' is a Habit"
 
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