Retroking2000
Smash Master
plug out his controller and chain grab
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- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
m2k/cactaur/Cort (whoever feels like answering)- How useful do you think is marth's dancing blade and what can you use it for it if at all?
Mew2King
King of the Mews
ridiculously useful, especially at mid %s, if they dont CC the first hit you should get the next 2 off usually.
at high % you can forward B a fast faller twice and then F smash them or up tilt them
vs slower fallers at high % forward B once then up tilt to KO them
get experience, you'll find uses
at high % you can forward B a fast faller twice and then F smash them or up tilt them
vs slower fallers at high % forward B once then up tilt to KO them
get experience, you'll find uses
craiigg
Smash Lord
while M2K is here talking of Dancing Blade, which is more effective
jab -> grab or side b -> grab considering you can side b quicker behind yourself which is the smarter move =X
jab -> grab or side b -> grab considering you can side b quicker behind yourself which is the smarter move =X
princetoma
Smash Cadet
can anyone tell me how to chaingrab fox profiently specially behind, i have a habit of missing my grabs when i know where there going to di.
Retroking2000
Smash Master
pivot grab dude
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Jab -> anything fails. Marth's jab is too slow to straight up link to anything if your opponent has quick reactions. Side b can link to a grab because it knocks them up slightly vertically, but it's not gauranteed. Especially at lower percentages.
Aesir
Smash Master
Jab is good for swatting things away, it comes out quick enough, but really only alright as a mix up.
I'm sure theres better opions.
I'm sure theres better opions.
FrostByte
Smash Lord
Jab -> jab -> jab -> jab.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
azen uses the jab very well v pc chris in those VLS vids
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I'm not saying Jab isn't useful, it's great as an interrupt. I just meant Jab -> anything straight up usually isn't that good. Azen never does like Jab -> grab or something of the kind. He used it as an interrupt and spacing purposes.
Edit: I'm money matching Cort's Peach at Mass Madness tomorrow, need Peach tips (that doesn't involve grab). Regardless, I'm still going to lose, but help me lose less badly!
Edit: I'm money matching Cort's Peach at Mass Madness tomorrow, need Peach tips (that doesn't involve grab). Regardless, I'm still going to lose, but help me lose less badly!
aMtt
Smash Apprentice
Hey, yesterday I played a good Samus that spammed the crap out of missiles, like constant missiles. Are there any easy ways to deal with this? only things I could think of are shffled fairs and waveshielding, but those were kind of hard to execute when he could just stop spamming missiles and just grab me or something. Any tips?
thanks
thanks
Retroking2000
Smash Master
He's immortal and has a sword. Why would anyone else not like Highlander?
Unfortunately, a large part of this game is knowing how to deal with what the community has come up with in developing the metagame. There is so much anti-top tier strategy out there that you really need to be able to experience it. I'm not saying it's hopeless, but it is likely impossible to become "pro" level without people to play. You could always devote yourself to having ridiculous technical skill and be awesome like Silent Wolf.
I actually don't remember who you are at all.
Unfortunately, as more and more Sheik vs Marth strats continue to be developed (stupid Mew2King/KDJ), I've been switching to Fox more often than I'd like for that matchup. Necessary evil for a necessary evil no?
Playing vs Sheik with Marth, I try to switch my style between being aggressive so they don't get used to camping me out too much, then turning it to pressure baiting, so they leave themselves open. It's just a trick to prevent getting stuck with a campy Sheik, because campy Sheik > Marth in every way. If Sheik goes in the air, it's an opportunity to get under them and combo.
Yes, and yes. Just find me and ask.
I rush and waveshield really quickly. Get close and dtilt their landing from the laser. Dash attack works too but I find that harder. Powershield->grabs are fantastic. If you get hit in the air with lasers, you can usually fair out of the stun faster than you can get hit, so keep yourself low to the ground, don't try to approach from over a platform.
M2K uses it a lot. I usually just use it to link combos or to start a Needles combo.
Jab is amazing. I do empty jabs to psyche out opponents instead of dtilts because of the shorter range of the jab. Dtilt will often accidentally tip the person, sending them further away from me when I am trying to keep them close and bait them.
Jab is best used as an interrupt though.
Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but Cort and I are super rivals/soul mates and I don't think he would appreciate me teaching people how to **** Peach.
Missiles aren't hard to fight against, just walk forward and ftilt, or sh fair. I usually sh fair into autocancel land near them and dtilt if they insist on missiling like idiots. Other than that, I grab and throw them into the air and **** them until they are off stage. There isn't really a lot to that matchup, you just need to know how to deal with spam and CC.
It's so far awaaaaay. I'll think about it. Maybe I'll bring M2K.Cactuar...why don't you look into going to FS2 on MLK weekend?
this should be ask arc thread
Just kidding.
Cort
Apple Head
No, please do. I play Marth too, and it'd be helpful from both perspectives.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Doesn't matter, I didn't even get to play him since they were really strict on even playing friendlies during that tourney. By the time things settled down and I probably could have got to play I passed out (only slept for like 3 hours that night). So when I woke up like 5 minutes later, I still felt exhausted and they were organizing crews so I just packed up my setup and left. Next time Cort!
Retroking2000
Smash Master
I have been experimenting with my game I'm slowly learning all his stuff, but I heard you can combo into reverse dolphin slash.
Anyone care to share some set ups for that wonderful up b?
I'm gonna go turn on my cube and see if I can figure some out on my own, but any help would be appreciated.
Anyone care to share some set ups for that wonderful up b?
I'm gonna go turn on my cube and see if I can figure some out on my own, but any help would be appreciated.
t0m0
Smash Apprentice
could you tell me where you got the clips for your Signature, because that one scene in American psycho literally made me LOLL. Fricken Christian bale man always getting the honeys
princetoma
Smash Cadet
can anyone tell me ways to capture people in the up b by dolpin slash. thanxx
Vincent Vega
Smash Journeyman
Good advice Cactuar thanks. I dunno why I completely forgot about the power shield to grab. Every time I see you do that in videos I think how **** it is. ^_^
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
I wouldn't expect you too, I wasn't good enough to be rememberable.I actually don't remember who you are at all.
Unfortunately, as more and more Sheik vs Marth strats continue to be developed (stupid Mew2King/KDJ), I've been switching to Fox more often than I'd like for that matchup. Necessary evil for a necessary evil no?
Same reason why I'm getting a Marth to fight Fox, cause Fox v Sheik is just intolerable for me. This thread is too good =)
I too would be really interested in hearing about the more subtle aspects of Marth v Peach. I hear either Marth ***** Peach or Peach is pretty close / even to Marth (I'm more inclined to believe the latter), but any insight would be appreciated
Yeah...but I'm going to pound 3 probably and thats really really far XD. Texas is fun you should come and bring M2K XD. I would love you forever >_>.
Maybe I already do? XD.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Anytime you can fair to dair, nair, or fair (providing you don't have to fastfall to catch up to them) you can almost always take out the second aerial and reverse upB. Also interrupting Fox or Falco's recovery, dropping off the ledge to overB, reverse upB or just reverse upB is sexy.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
I use it as a punisher every now and then if my opponent mis-spaces an attack. It's fast Marth's fastest "kill" move and it's sexy. Side B to up B also works on most characters at high percents, so I use it every now and then if my opponent is living too long.
jas3
Smash Apprentice
sorry, i couldn't read through the whole thread but is there any place on marth's sword that is better for juggling using fairs? like medium fallers.
Um... Cactuar can you make me better at Marth Dittos... i don't swing my sword guud enuff
Retroking2000
Smash Master
I aint gonna lie to you guys
cactuar makes me feel horny
cactuar makes me feel horny
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
What do you do when you dthrow a Sheik near the edge and they don't DI away like they're "supposed" to? If you try to wd back and fast fall the ledge they can rise up and slap you before, and if you lay back they don't have to jump so they won't run into a fsmash or something.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
If they're gonna try and hit you... uhh I spike them with the back end of it. You kinda have to read them if they're gonna take the ledge or jump up into an attack I think and ledgehog or hit them accordingly. But Cactuar may have a sexier answer. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Cort
Apple Head
Smart Sheiks will generally attack the ledge half the time after being dthrown off.
This is where you simply approach the ledge and fsmash them as the dj slap/uair/whatnot. You should basically do this ~50% of the time after dthrowing sheik off, and mix it up accordingly depending if they fall for it or not.
This is where you simply approach the ledge and fsmash them as the dj slap/uair/whatnot. You should basically do this ~50% of the time after dthrowing sheik off, and mix it up accordingly depending if they fall for it or not.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
A friend of mine also counters at the ledge when the sheiks come up into aerials. It's kinda ok. I still would say go for a spike or a f-smash though.
But I actually have a question. In Marth dittos on FoD when I go for the sweetspot I still get f-smashed ledgeguarded. The hitbox seems to go through the stage and hit me. I sweetspot consistently on the other stages and don't usually get edgeguarded like this so I'm a bit confused.
Does anybody else have this problem, and do you have any thoughts to help me on this Cactuar?
But I actually have a question. In Marth dittos on FoD when I go for the sweetspot I still get f-smashed ledgeguarded. The hitbox seems to go through the stage and hit me. I sweetspot consistently on the other stages and don't usually get edgeguarded like this so I'm a bit confused.
Does anybody else have this problem, and do you have any thoughts to help me on this Cactuar?
Cort
Apple Head
It is -NEARLY- impossible to sweet spot the ledge against another Marth that spaces a fsmash as soon as you up b. Here's why:
If the edge guarding Marth stays approximately tipper spaced from the ledge and waits for the sound of the others Marth's up b, he will 98% of the time successfully hit the recovering Marth with the fsmash. It's because the recovering Marth's up b hit box approaches the edge guarding Marth's leg just as you time the fsmash, and as soon as you fsmash Marth lifts up his body and leg and thrusts his sword forward, so he ends up DODGING the up b's hitbox and punishes the recovering Marth with an fsmash. Also, the fsmash hitbox reaches below the ledge by quite some distance, another reason it's -nearly- impossible to sweet spot an up b against another Marth.
The hit box of Marth's fsmash are 3 'oval' shaped boxes. The only time a recovering Marth can sweet spot is if his hand barely reaches the ledge in between the curvatures of the hitboxes (where they meet, they slightly pinch together)
The only other situation is if the recovering Marth is spaced from the ledge before up b'ing, in which case you should just respace yourself appropriately to make sure to nail him with an fsmash.
So, if a Marth is forced to up b to the ledge, his only option SHOULD be to get hit by an fsmash and attempt to tech (wall tech jump to instant back air works great, you end up regrabbing the ledge shortly after, wall tech to air dodge onto stage is okay, regular wall tech and attempt another up b also works but will just end up racking a lot of damage on you over and over)
I think I covered everything. >.>
If the edge guarding Marth stays approximately tipper spaced from the ledge and waits for the sound of the others Marth's up b, he will 98% of the time successfully hit the recovering Marth with the fsmash. It's because the recovering Marth's up b hit box approaches the edge guarding Marth's leg just as you time the fsmash, and as soon as you fsmash Marth lifts up his body and leg and thrusts his sword forward, so he ends up DODGING the up b's hitbox and punishes the recovering Marth with an fsmash. Also, the fsmash hitbox reaches below the ledge by quite some distance, another reason it's -nearly- impossible to sweet spot an up b against another Marth.
The hit box of Marth's fsmash are 3 'oval' shaped boxes. The only time a recovering Marth can sweet spot is if his hand barely reaches the ledge in between the curvatures of the hitboxes (where they meet, they slightly pinch together)
The only other situation is if the recovering Marth is spaced from the ledge before up b'ing, in which case you should just respace yourself appropriately to make sure to nail him with an fsmash.
So, if a Marth is forced to up b to the ledge, his only option SHOULD be to get hit by an fsmash and attempt to tech (wall tech jump to instant back air works great, you end up regrabbing the ledge shortly after, wall tech to air dodge onto stage is okay, regular wall tech and attempt another up b also works but will just end up racking a lot of damage on you over and over)
I think I covered everything. >.>
technomancer
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 17, 2006
- Messages
- 2,053
As far as I can tell, beating Peach with Marth is all about just abusing your spacing, keeping the threat of that forward air valid, and shutting her down, and then just finding ways to get the tippers off at the right percents.
Turnips are a problem in the same way that boomerangs and bombs are a problem for Marth with the the Links; you just have to deal with them efficiently and don't fall for the approaches.
Try this: Short hop, float there a little towards peach and then DI away, then SHFFL an f-air as you land, do a dtilt to safety, then you can jump out of the dtilt into whatever if they try to punish. If they don't try to approach, just land, and jump again, and if they pull a turnip, use the time to approach and get aggressive, because as long as she has the turnip handy she can't do stuff like "grabs" and "downsmashes".
Turnips are a problem in the same way that boomerangs and bombs are a problem for Marth with the the Links; you just have to deal with them efficiently and don't fall for the approaches.
Try this: Short hop, float there a little towards peach and then DI away, then SHFFL an f-air as you land, do a dtilt to safety, then you can jump out of the dtilt into whatever if they try to punish. If they don't try to approach, just land, and jump again, and if they pull a turnip, use the time to approach and get aggressive, because as long as she has the turnip handy she can't do stuff like "grabs" and "downsmashes".
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
I have a fox question lol, but I'll just post it here, sorry if anyone gets mad. M2K's fox does this thing where he jabs the opponent's shield, then dd's away, dd's back in and grabs them. It seems kind of obvious, so why don't they just spot dodge the grab? I know there's gotta be a reason why it works so well.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
It's not obvious. He could DD in and grab anytime, so if you spot dodge, he will most likely just wait for the spot dodge to end and punish. That's the crux of DDing, you can attack whenever you want, meaning you cannot be predicted (well, you can, if you're being predictable and the other person is good. It's just very hard) and thus cannot be countered.
Scenario: He jabs, DD's back, you spot dodge. Instead of grabbing immediately, he waits for the spot dodge to end and grabs.