Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[HolidayMaker]

You incorporate SH nair into your FD combos a lot more than M2K, and it seems to pay pretty solid dividends. Can you expound upon its usage at all?

 

[Kotastic]

So, I had an experience playing this Peach player that was decent and knew what he was doing. With the way how he plays and how I envision the matchup, it's a long and grueling process with each game being like at least 5 minutes. Long story short, it was close the first 2 games being tied 1-1, and Game 3 he went Battlefield and I had the edge when we were relatively even with 2 stocks. I got a tipper f-smash at like 80% and he DI'd poorly...but he still survived. That broke me. The patient play and pressure I was exerting became obvious F-smashes, and he ran away with it. That was the first time I actually legitimately felt angry about my loss in an extremely self-deprecating way. I would feel sad, disappointed, annoyed...but never anger. I have never felt that way in any of my other losses to this extreme, not even close to when I got cheesed in Stadium transformations. I'm not the only one that feels that way either, as two of my other friends that are pretty good lost to the same Peach in the past 2 weeks, and they expressed anger/sadness towards their loss as well.

I know the solution is to visualize the situation of things that might tilt me, but I have to ask: Do you have some ideas why Peach makes people feel that way? It's evidently not just me, as I've witnessed other people express frustrations losing to Peach in many separate instances. I'll tell you right now that for me it had little to do with external circumstances, so stuff like worrying about rank or placement meant little to me at the time.

 

[Dr Peepee]

So when cornering someone, ideally doing something with low-risk, high-reward is the go-to, like grabbing a low-percent Peach near the corner and potentially netting a lot of percent from DA alone or something.

However in situations where the only way I can kill which is making a hard commitment...where do you draw the line? I've done some reflections, and I realize that if I keep on doing low-risk, low-reward moves on the corner, eventually they'll find an escape with all my tedious cornering for nothing. I've had a problem with this for awhile. I realized this vs. a player I know like WD OoS, so I faked in a couple WDs (without being excessive) to bait him to get OoS and make a hard commitment with an F-smash. If I didn't do this, I doubt I would've won the set: https://youtu.be/x6ImxOX8ceY?t=14m39s

I'm still exploring more stuff regarding cornering because I have a feeling that this is essential in leveling up my gameplay a whole lot, so it is appreciated if you were to say I'm heading in the right direction with this.

Let me respond to this again since I thought about it some more.

Please focus on edgeguarding only for quite a while. I believe this will resolve many of your problems, make matches feel like less of a grind, and help you maintain momentum off of any opening. You can juggle people toward the corner now, but they likely don't mind that so much since they aren't dying from that obviously bad position. Taking the biggest advantage of that helps Marth a ton. Please consider this.

I was wondering about this situation too, how can marth approach fox/sheik/falcon just standing still or crouching in place and not reacting to forward movement? I feel like the standard rc dtilt approach is too react-able, do you think wd dtilt/jump fair would work here? If they're crouching I think you'd want to set up a grab but idk if its possible to get into grab range without them attacking you first.

here's the situation again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK_XO_DJeSY&feature=youtu.be&t=832&ab_channel=ShowdownGG

Well this isn't exactly a neutral situation, as Sfat was just coming out a punished state and then rolling. I also don't have space or desire to WD/dash Dtilt here since I'm already close. So maybe you'd like me to answer your question in terms of what to do instead of this situation? I don't know.

SH is good out of dash back(can Fair or drift etc), so is pivot/WD back Fsmash, so is WD back observe(so WD back SH maybe drift in depending on what you see or Fsmash the Bair in this case, etc), and of course you can just dash back observe and then run in and grab or whatever as well. I did not need to aggressively run in with Fair without observing is the point I'm trying to make here. He was off balance and I should have recognized this.

When you say 'let Sfat hang himself" is this because you had him cornered? When you came in, he continued to back up until his back was to the edge and then he stops moving. Was your intention to get him to come forward and then punish him with a fair/grab?

edit: lol didn't see the post above me

Let me know if the above covered it =p

Dr Peepee in a lot of your posts you talk about training your mentality. How would I go about training my mentality? Is there anything specific I should do?

There are plenty of things you can do.

You can meditate and work on your concentration and relaxation and any difficult psychological blocks you have. You can separate the psychological work through other disciplines such as self-esteem or NLP or body work or journaling, etc.

You can build acceptance to difficult things through exercise or other physical work such as cold exposure, being kind to those who aren't kind to you(especially family members if this is a possibility), or putting yourself in other difficult situations and relaxing in them.

It's honestly about what you want to do and how you think is best to get there. I can recommend some extra resources for much of what I just listed if you're interested if what I said isn't enough.

You incorporate SH nair into your FD combos a lot more than M2K, and it seems to pay pretty solid dividends. Can you expound upon its usage at all?

Yeah it's awesome because most people DI in on it which sets up for combos/Ken Combo/tipper Fsmash, and if you get people to start DI'ing it out then you can just Fsmash them so it just makes Marth's throw mixup game stronger.

So, I had an experience playing this Peach player that was decent and knew what he was doing. With the way how he plays and how I envision the matchup, it's a long and grueling process with each game being like at least 5 minutes. Long story short, it was close the first 2 games being tied 1-1, and Game 3 he went Battlefield and I had the edge when we were relatively even with 2 stocks. I got a tipper f-smash at like 80% and he DI'd poorly...but he still survived. That broke me. The patient play and pressure I was exerting became obvious F-smashes, and he ran away with it. That was the first time I actually legitimately felt angry about my loss in an extremely self-deprecating way. I would feel sad, disappointed, annoyed...but never anger. I have never felt that way in any of my other losses to this extreme, not even close to when I got cheesed in Stadium transformations. I'm not the only one that feels that way either, as two of my other friends that are pretty good lost to the same Peach in the past 2 weeks, and they expressed anger/sadness towards their loss as well.

I know the solution is to visualize the situation of things that might tilt me, but I have to ask: Do you have some ideas why Peach makes people feel that way? It's evidently not just me, as I've witnessed other people express frustrations losing to Peach in many separate instances. I'll tell you right now that for me it had little to do with external circumstances, so stuff like worrying about rank or placement meant little to me at the time.

Let me know if my extra response above helped.

And about Peach specifically, I would imagine it's because she slows the game down to a grind and worms her way out of situations that you "should" be controlling to do lots of damage. She also can just throw herself at you and trade into a winning situation and also not super struggle to get many punishes like others may on her. These things get diminished as you get better, but the character is just designed to exploit certain mistakes and make an uncomfortable pacing for many players now.

 

[Kopaka]

[QUOTE="Dr Peepee, post: 21909709, member: 74236"


I would meditate 1-1.5 hours at a time, twice a day at those times. I did not make exceptions very often for this, and made opportunities to go longer when possible.

Also good job on the simplicity success! That's how it starts.[/QUOTE]

Would you keep this habit up on tournament trips? Or just at home?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'd still do it at tourneys, but there might be times I prioritized sleep over quite as extensive sessions. I tried to make sure I made as much time as I could for it though.

 

[Yort]

I never realized your meditation practice was this intense.
Did you meditate before practice and analysis sessions and also before bed?
Why do you prefer the longer 1-2 hour sessions instead of 30 minutes or less?
What benefits do you think meditation gave you melee / learning wise?

 

[Kotastic]

I've realized that my edgeguarding game in a lot of floaties are relatively weak, so I've thought some ideas on how I can better edgeguard Peach instead of letting her back for free all the time.

I can jump dair her DJ sweetspot ledge so it becomes a mixup to either sweetspot or airdodge on stage. When she up-Bs towards ledge, I can d-tilt her reliably and often does the job after ledgehogging. If she wall-techs, I can do the M2K which is dair her up-B before her umbrella hitbox fully comes out. As for her drift when she recovers high, it's a bit tricky and I kinda just believe when she has a lot of mixups in her disposal, it's better to just maintain stage positioning and shark to cover airdodges. When she is Up-B'ing and drifting towards the ledge and dodges my d-tilt, I can just run-off fair. You have other ideas that I didn't list and good Marth Peach videos to watch regarding edgeguarding?

Also I can't say this enough honestly, but thank you so much for not only answering my questions but also pondering about them as well. Means a lot to me, and I will continue to improve in this game.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I never realized your meditation practice was this intense.
Did you meditate before practice and analysis sessions and also before bed?
Why do you prefer the longer 1-2 hour sessions instead of 30 minutes or less?
What benefits do you think meditation gave you melee / learning wise?

Well of course it's this intense, that's how you get the best benefits of many things =p

Longer sessions basically just condition your mind more thoroughly. It's like if you analyze more you'll learn more things in a way. There can be diminishing returns to excessive analysis, but I have never heard of or seen diminishing returns to meditation so it's kind of unique in that way to me.

I meditate at the beginning and end of my day. Sometimes I meditate in the morning after running instead of before as I notice those sessions are different but also good.

Meditation gave me much greater focus, deeper thinking, deeper relaxation(which has many benefits), and probably other benefits such as greater interconnections between areas of thought that I'm not fully aware of.

I've realized that my edgeguarding game in a lot of floaties are relatively weak, so I've thought some ideas on how I can better edgeguard Peach instead of letting her back for free all the time.

I can jump dair her DJ sweetspot ledge so it becomes a mixup to either sweetspot or airdodge on stage. When she up-Bs towards ledge, I can d-tilt her reliably and often does the job after ledgehogging. If she wall-techs, I can do the M2K which is dair her up-B before her umbrella hitbox fully comes out. As for her drift when she recovers high, it's a bit tricky and I kinda just believe when she has a lot of mixups in her disposal, it's better to just maintain stage positioning and shark to cover airdodges. When she is Up-B'ing and drifting towards the ledge and dodges my d-tilt, I can just run-off fair. You have other ideas that I didn't list and good Marth Peach videos to watch regarding edgeguarding?

Also I can't say this enough honestly, but thank you so much for not only answering my questions but also pondering about them as well. Means a lot to me, and I will continue to improve in this game.

You can Dtilt her DJ regrab, which means holding down near the edge means she can only do edge stand or roll or edge jump. This is what M2K does.

You can just grab edge if she drifts around your Dtilt.

Also for when she goes high, just focus on burning her float/DJ at first and then it's pretty straightforward since she basically has to airdodge. Stay between her and center and work your Fair/Utilt/DD/shield grab.

I never got my good edgeguarding recorded but M2K has had some good videos of it(like that Summit or Canada Cup set or whatever it was).



Edit: Kotastic I forgot to mention that if Peach is recovering high or just hit high up on platform stages, you usually want to get on platforms to juggle/edgeguard her. I see this mistake commonly so be sure to practice it.

 

[Applebutter61]

I have a question: I main marth, but need a secondary who would make a good counterpick. I like sheik, but would she diversify my play enough to make a good secondary?

 

[Zorcey]

Dr Peepee I really need to deal with a problem I've had for some time now, but has become very troubling as I play better players and need all my focus: guilt over winning. I'm not sure if other players experience something like this, but as a set goes on I often have lapses of focus caused by thoughts like, "How is my opponent going to take this loss?" "Will they be salty? Are they going to curse at me/throw their controller?" etc. Basically, there's a part of me that's afraid to win because bad sportsmanship makes me very uncomfortable, and this manifests in various ways. Against better players I might think "That gimp was so cheap they deserve it more/deserve to be salty," or against worse players, "I don't think he's going to take being JV5'd very well," etc.

Regardless of manifestation, it cripples my focus and creates mental blocks that cost me entire sets. This is absolutely unacceptable to me as a competitor, but I always felt I wasn't ready to tackle the problem because I wasn't good enough at the game, and my understanding of the game alone should carry me until I'm ready to face really good players. But I've recognized it's a problem that extends outside the game in cause and effect, and harms my enjoyment of the game and hinders my ability to improve, because it breaks my focus. Because of that, I need to address this and other problems that have similar effects on me, to make improvement smoother and to make sure I actually feel comfortable playing the game. Does it sound like I have the right idea here? All the improvements I can make to my play in and outside the game itself still feel overwhelming to me, so the idea of taking on fundamental problems like this that may require a lot of work intimidates me, because I'm never sure how to allocate my time in a way that really helps me improve the most. But there's another issue maybe best saved for another post lol.

Any advice or thoughts you could give me on this are really appreciated.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I have a question: I main marth, but need a secondary who would make a good counterpick. I like sheik, but would she diversify my play enough to make a good secondary?

It depends on what you want a secondary for. Matchups? Stages? What people think of as weak Marth matchups now like Pikachu/Puff/Sheik?

Really your best bet in general is probably Fox, but if you want to go with Sheik that could be okay. It can make your vs Sheik/Marth matchup more consistent I guess, and probably vs Falcon too. Might also make you more consistent vs low tiers as well, but that shouldn't matter too much if you're zoning correctly.

Dr Peepee I really need to deal with a problem I've had for some time now, but has become very troubling as I play better players and need all my focus: guilt over winning. I'm not sure if other players experience something like this, but as a set goes on I often have lapses of focus caused by thoughts like, "How is my opponent going to take this loss?" "Will they be salty? Are they going to curse at me/throw their controller?" etc. Basically, there's a part of me that's afraid to win because bad sportsmanship makes me very uncomfortable, and this manifests in various ways. Against better players I might think "That gimp was so cheap they deserve it more/deserve to be salty," or against worse players, "I don't think he's going to take being JV5'd very well," etc.

Regardless of manifestation, it cripples my focus and creates mental blocks that cost me entire sets. This is absolutely unacceptable to me as a competitor, but I always felt I wasn't ready to tackle the problem because I wasn't good enough at the game, and my understanding of the game alone should carry me until I'm ready to face really good players. But I've recognized it's a problem that extends outside the game in cause and effect, and harms my enjoyment of the game and hinders my ability to improve, because it breaks my focus. Because of that, I need to address this and other problems that have similar effects on me, to make improvement smoother and to make sure I actually feel comfortable playing the game. Does it sound like I have the right idea here? All the improvements I can make to my play in and outside the game itself still feel overwhelming to me, so the idea of taking on fundamental problems like this that may require a lot of work intimidates me, because I'm never sure how to allocate my time in a way that really helps me improve the most. But there's another issue maybe best saved for another post lol.

Any advice or thoughts you could give me on this are really appreciated.

I had some concerns like this when I started playing. I really like making people happy, but when I beat some people I noticed they became unhappy so it was a real dilemma for me. However I also noticed something else. If I beat someone often enough, or got good enough, eventually that person would stop getting mad, or as mad when I beat them. They would just expect me to do well and my success wouldn't clash with their expectations. So in this way I decided I'd double down on my desire to do well. I also recognized that as a top competitor these and other outside thoughts would distract me, so I needed to do even more work to focus in on the game. I'd use in game cues for this. Playing M2K when he basically has given up and is slumping over next to you and the crowd wants you to take it easy on him in GFs, knowing that if he touches you he could very likely still kill you, is not easy to handle but it's a skill to train.

Some things/ideas I'd like for you to substitute instead of what you said:

"How will my opponent take this loss?" = "Will they grow from this experience?"

"That gimp was cheap" = "I'm glad I did something well. I have momentum, how will they respond?"

"I don't think he's going to take being JV5'd very well" = "What can we both learn from this game?"

And if someone does give up or get mad at you, it's not really about you. It's about their own inability to deal with failure/challenges, and if anything you're helping them by having them confront that fear. So please play well to help your opponents!

 

[Zorcey]

...Yeah. This is good advice, thanks. It’s interesting that you mention M2K because I’ve actually noticed and wondered about this very thing (how it feels to be the other player “breaking” him) when he stops trying. It’s a unique kind of pressure that’s hard to deal with because it’s entirely your own perception getting in the way.

I’ll try these substitutions, but how do I get myself to really believe these things, as opposed to what I’m predisposed to think? I recognize these substitutions are much more positive and beneficial to my mental game, but I feel like that’d only be the case if I really believed them. Do I just rely on the repetition itself?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I legitimately felt bad, and eventually did not believe he would learn from the challenges I confronted him with. I just decided that if I ended it as quickly as possible it could be over with for him LOL

I would recommend trying to substitute using that mental manipulation exercise I described recently. The one where you begin trying to replace and notice your resistance and follow it then put the new one back in again, etc.

You could also repeat anyway but use your body to help reinforce. Saying it confidently and with good posture and with enough repetition can actually help from what I've learned. The trick is different than just saying it because now your body will be convinced over time of what your new thoughts are and it'll keep you in the habit.

And of course there are indirect methods like exercise or other mental unblocking that can help your breakthroughs.

 

[Sacredtwin11]

PP, I've seen/heard Armada mention visualizing victory in one of his videos on mentality, and I'm pretty sure I've also read you talking about that. Can you describe what "visualizing victory" means in Melee? I've given it some thought, but the only things that come to my mind are visualizing myself executing my punish game, or visualizing myself after the set feeling good because I was able to win.

Also, when you meditate for your hour-long sessions, are you mostly just concentrating on your breath, as a lot of meditations do? I'm really curious to hear more on how you build up your mental stamina and focus.

 

[Kotastic]

PP, when you know for sure a character is falling down with an aerial directly coming at you (say, taking center), do you try to challenge it with up-tilt/fair, shield, or WD back punish it? I generally do up-tilt since it's just the most straightforward to me but sometimes I miss. I don't like using shield because it's Marth's shield. I sometimes try to WD back f-smash, but I might be too slow because they get their shield up. This is the most problematic with Sheik falling dair and Marth falling dair.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP, I've seen/heard Armada mention visualizing victory in one of his videos on mentality, and I'm pretty sure I've also read you talking about that. Can you describe what "visualizing victory" means in Melee? I've given it some thought, but the only things that come to my mind are visualizing myself executing my punish game, or visualizing myself after the set feeling good because I was able to win.

Also, when you meditate for your hour-long sessions, are you mostly just concentrating on your breath, as a lot of meditations do? I'm really curious to hear more on how you build up your mental stamina and focus.

Yes you want to visualize your in-game things working out for you for sure, but you also want to imagine what the end of the match end result is like, the screen saying "Game!" and hearing the crowd cheer for you or whatever. It's about engaging your senses as much as possible to tune your brain in to the possibility of making that outcome real so you can make it happen basically.

My primary focus is breath concentration, but I may also let other thoughts come in and think on something if I feel an urge. Mostly though, thoughts are distractions and I acknowledge the thought then return to my breath. That practice alone is basically what training concentration is like. Eventually, you kind of sink into deeper focus or awareness or whatever due to getting better oxygen(since you're taking clean breaths repeatedly) and due to trained focus so it gets easier once you can make it past the 30 minute mark in my experience.

PP, when you know for sure a character is falling down with an aerial directly coming at you (say, taking center), do you try to challenge it with up-tilt/fair, shield, or WD back punish it? I generally do up-tilt since it's just the most straightforward to me but sometimes I miss. I don't like using shield because it's Marth's shield. I sometimes try to WD back f-smash, but I might be too slow because they get their shield up. This is the most problematic with Sheik falling dair and Marth falling dair.

Well I could intercept it with Fair before it comes out, fake with SH and then land and Utilt or DD/shield grab them, or just hit them with WD back Fsmash or WD in Fsmash/Dtilt for some niche situations. The Sheik Dair you can Fair or at minimum grab every time, and Marth Dair is harder but getting below and working Uair/Fair especially makes it very hard for the other Marth. If you only ever attack as a character gets close to the ground, then of course you'll trade a lot. You need to be proactive and make them swing earlier in these cases.

 

[Kotastic]

Just a minor question regarding Sheik edgeguarding

https://youtu.be/1pe2mYEvTS0?t=40s
In this instance looking back, I think I had enough time to turn-around up-tilt. However, let's say I don't for other scenarios. I absolutely cannot up-B because Faceroll will amsah tech it. Up-tilt is a bit finnicky, and I've seen my fair share of it being amsah teched. Do I need to be like inside the hilt? Or would you continue to throw off stage.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You can fake DJ land onstage or back to edge, or edge dash onstage and set up Fthrow vs Fsmash mixup vs hold edge as well.

But yeah if you have less time, then Fsmash if you think they'll hold down might be okay there. Usually I'd just throw them back off if I didn't have much time. Kinda depends on the situation and how much less time and your coverage a little before that though.

 

[Kotastic]

With Faceroll, the mixup of f-throw/f-smash doesn't exist for him because unless the f-smash is fully tippered, he amsah techs that as well every time (meaning he always holds down and away). I found a cool counterplay if I'm not confident in hitting my tipper is d-tilt --> up-B/f-smash while the tech or spotdodge lag, but this isn't necessary if I hit my tipper. (I hate this so much: https://youtu.be/BsRiOVDHssw?t=6m48s)

Also another minor question here: https://youtu.be/1pe2mYEvTS0?t=1m2s
Looking back at this scenario, Faceroll wanted to run at me so he can CC the d-tilt do get a kill confirm on me. You think for my grounded approach vs his grounded approach, I should run-up grab instead?

 

[quixotic]

With Faceroll, the mixup of f-throw/f-smash doesn't exist for him because unless the f-smash is fully tippered, he amsah techs that as well every time (meaning he always holds down and away). I found a cool counterplay if I'm not confident in hitting my tipper is d-tilt --> up-B/f-smash while the tech or spotdodge lag, but this isn't necessary if I hit my tipper. (I hate this so much: https://youtu.be/BsRiOVDHssw?t=6m48s)

Also another minor question here: https://youtu.be/1pe2mYEvTS0?t=1m2s
Looking back at this scenario, Faceroll wanted to run at me so he can CC the d-tilt do get a kill confirm on me. You think for my grounded approach vs his grounded approach, I should run-up grab instead?

So my roommate does the amsah tech thing, i've found that the best way to beat it is:

At 110+% tipper fsmash will kill them, at slightly lower percents they'll tech it and slide off stage and you edgeguard them again.
At lower percents you can do a shield stop upair->dair because they're holding the down away di for amsah tech.
If you don't have a lot of time just grab.

Also sheik's up b has 30 frames of endlag so amsah tech can only cover 20 frames of that minus hitlag.

 

[Dr Peepee]

With Faceroll, the mixup of f-throw/f-smash doesn't exist for him because unless the f-smash is fully tippered, he amsah techs that as well every time (meaning he always holds down and away). I found a cool counterplay if I'm not confident in hitting my tipper is d-tilt --> up-B/f-smash while the tech or spotdodge lag, but this isn't necessary if I hit my tipper. (I hate this so much: https://youtu.be/BsRiOVDHssw?t=6m48s)

Also another minor question here: https://youtu.be/1pe2mYEvTS0?t=1m2s
Looking back at this scenario, Faceroll wanted to run at me so he can CC the d-tilt do get a kill confirm on me. You think for my grounded approach vs his grounded approach, I should run-up grab instead?

Dang guess you can tech that for a while lol I need to look into that. I'll check out that counterplay too that's pretty cool.

And yeah run in grab would have worked great there.

So my roommate does the amsah tech thing, i've found that the best way to beat it is:

At 110+% tipper fsmash will kill them, at slightly lower percents they'll tech it and slide off stage and you edgeguard them again.
At lower percents you can do a shield stop upair->dair because they're holding the down away di for amsah tech.
If you don't have a lot of time just grab.

Also sheik's up b has 30 frames of endlag so amsah tech can only cover 20 frames of that minus hitlag.

Good post ty.

 

[CAUP]

Sheik won't fly off the stage if they fast fall after getting hit (unless they're at super high percent).

In the example where he is at such a high percent, I would f tilt so you have time to punish the amsah tech. You can react to if they amsah tech and just forward tilt again or forward smash.

I don't really know what you should do at lower percent.

Edit: Also in the set, Faceroll amsah techs a tipper f smash at 115% : | This seems tricky to deal with : P

Edit 2: After talking with my brother @DCW who is a marth main, he says down smash could maybe be good. The tipper hit can't be amsah teched since it sends at 70 degrees. Also since they will be DI ing down, that means they'll have bad DI. He qualifies that though by saying that the weaker hits of down smash can be amsah teched and those hits override the tipper hit so you would have to get really good spacing. Also he thinks short hop dair could maybe be good if you are reading the amsa tech. They amsah tech the dair and then you follow up with an f smash.

 

[quixotic]

Sheik won't fly off the stage if they fast fall after getting hit (unless they're at super high percent).

In the example where he is at such a high percent, I would f tilt so you have time to punish the amsah tech. You can react to if they amsah tech and just forward tilt again or forward smash.

I don't really know what you should do at lower percent.

Edit: Also in the set, Faceroll amsah techs a tipper f smash at 115% : | This seems tricky to deal with : P

Edit 2: After talking with my brother @DCW who is a marth main, he says down smash could maybe be good. The tipper hit can't be amsah teched since it sends at 70 degrees. Also since they will be DI ing down, that means they'll have bad DI. He qualifies that though by saying that the weaker hits of down smash can be amsah teched and those hits override the tipper hit so you would have to get really good spacing. Also he thinks short hop dair could maybe be good if you are reading the amsa tech. They amsah tech the dair and then you follow up with an f smash.

according to http://ikneedata.com/calculator.html amsah tech works until 108%, 110% if staled once in the last stale queue. I don't know if you've tested this yourself but in my experience sheik will slide off from tipper fsmash at around 100%, leading to another edgeguard. And yeah I think dsmash is optimal at kill percent .
As I mentioned earlier, I think upair->dair is really good vs amsah tech and probably the strongest mixup at around 70%. Also it seems pretty hard to hit dair vs amsah tech-> walk tipper fsmash, and I don't like setups that rely on the opponent doing an amsah tech because they might miss it(amsah tech covers 20/30 frames of sheik's up b endlag).

 

[CAUP]

Forward smash wasn't stale and I'm pretty sure it was a tipper. It's at 11:24 in the match. Also characters can stop sliding off the stage by fast falling to the ledge as soon as you end the amsah tech. If you don't do that there will be an edge guard though.

I really don't know what's the most practical option as I'm not a Marth main. I was just saying what my brother had to say.

Edit; I haven't tested when slide off to ledge stops working as Sheik so I don't know exactly. I would be surprised though if it didn't work even at 100.

 

[Inkfathom]

Forward smash wasn't stale and I'm pretty sure it was a tipper. It's at 11:24 in the match.

I assume you mean 11:24 here: https://youtu.be/BsRiOVDHssw?t=6m48s

That wasn't a tipper, marth's fsmash has a different tipper noise (it's pretty dull and quiet). That sound is the sound for a lot of marth's tippers, but not fsmash.

 

[quixotic]

I’ll test slide off sometime. But yea I think ur right about dsmash which would ideally replace fsmash starting at like 85 when it kills

Forward smash wasn't stale and I'm pretty sure it was a tipper. It's at 11:24 in the match. Also characters can stop sliding off the stage by fast falling to the ledge as soon as you end the amsah tech. If you don't do that there will be an edge guard though.

I really don't know what's the most practical option as I'm not a Marth main. I was just saying what my brother had to say.

Edit; I haven't tested when slide off to ledge stops working as Sheik so I don't know exactly. I would be surprised though if it didn't work even at 100.

 

[CAUP]

Okay thanks I Inkfathom . I was watching it in class without sound so never thought about that, thanks.

 

[Kotastic]

PP, what would you do here when a Sheik walks up and tries to grab/f-tilt you? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/226175304?t=02h12m47s - I tried grabbing, but I just got grabbed first...Sheik seems so intimidating.

They also have a trick where they angle at the perfect sweetspot where they walk slowly and CC at the same time, broken tbh.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You could have landed with Dtilt, SH'd and drifted back slightly with Fair/Nair, or ran in and grabbed earlier instead of dashing back first(or just cutting the dash back earlier).

Edit: Oh you could also have done this faster had you landed without Fair. The Fair landing habit is a tough one to break but very worthwhile vs Sheik especially I find.

 

[Yort]

PP, what would you do here when a Sheik walks up and tries to grab/f-tilt you? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/226175304?t=02h12m47s - I tried grabbing, but I just got grabbed first...Sheik seems so intimidating.

They also have a trick where they angle at the perfect sweetspot where they walk slowly and CC at the same time, broken tbh.

https://youtu.be/0OS8x6RP7SY?t=688
PP also talks about the falling fair thing for a while in this interview, vs shiek too, relevant.

 

[HolidayMaker]

Do you know of any good footage of a Marth dealing with a strong platform/needle game from a Sheik? Swedish doesn't really play that style much, and your sets with Plup involve one with Plup having a jank controller and another with you visibly not playing up to par. Your stuff with M2K is pre-shield drop as well so things have changed there pretty significantly I think.

If no footage, thoughts on the topic? I don't feel overly threatened by it a in terms of their offense a lot of the time but I can't approach for the life of me.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I don't remember if Plup tried it vs M2K that one time they played it on FoD or not. Maybe that?

I THINK you can space Fair on their shield and be fine I'm decently sure, but even if not you just get right outside of their Fair range and you can do a little bit of dash/SH mixup and their shield will diminish quickly while they can't WD forward or shield drop Fair without worrying about your own Fair or Dtilt/grab on their landing.

 

[iCrash]

At what point (in mastery of basic mechanics like L canceling, wavedash OOS, etc.) should a newer player start practicing more technical stuff, improving punish game, playing tons of friendlies, etc.?

Is it something you can immediately start doing along with the basics, or should you wait until you can L cancel say, 9 times out of 10 before trying to work on improving parts of the punish game that might include aerials?


Also, how do you deal with situations you don't know, I.E: vs. a character you are unfamiliar with? Is it just about adapting quickly to their character trends and player habits?

 

[Dr Peepee]

You could do friendlies whenever I suppose, but the more you can practice the things you're talking about and keep them a habit, the better you'll be long term and the more you'll get out of friendlies.

 

[quixotic]

Pp, you said in a post a while ago that jump fair is good vs fox because it beats them jumping in the corner. What do you think of doing this option if they jump a lot closer to center in a wide stage like stadium? Are there other options you’d consider in this situation?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm less likely to do it, but that doesn't make it bad. I might consider just pushing in and seeing if they commit to jumping and then punishing with CC or pivot grab or getting under them/challenging their landing if they go high. Fair is a big part of Marth's game against Fox since Fox jumps so much and that doesn't really change anywhere on the stage.

 

[minh]

Dr Peepee i'd really appreciate if you could link me some resources to help train my mentality!

 

[Dr Peepee]

For competitive mentality, "the art of learning" and "the inner game of tennis" should work fine. You may also appreciate things like "mindfulness in plain english" or "unlimited power"(or anything NLP related) for ways that aren't strictly related to competing. For meditation itself there's plenty you can easily Google.

 

[HolidayMaker]

How do you gameplan/go about dealing with high Falcon recoveries? I can kill Falcon below the stage/stage level almost every time, but if he gets too much higher than a side platform on his up b I end up letting him live far too often.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Kinda depends on the situation, but I basically just jump and float with them and hit them just before they land with Fair/Uair. This late landing lets me follow up with Ken Combo or Fsmash as I want, and even if they DI well they're off stage with more percent and usually lower than before.

How to jump and float with them can depend on how high and which level, but you basically just want to land on a side platform just before they do since that's where they'll usually end up, so usually you FH/DJ and drift.