M
MyNeighborBurrito
I really like your question dude. Your question reminds me of Armada's newest video, where he talks about how he's not a fan of how people *just* say he's consistent, and that there's more to it than that. It also reminds me of how people (Supposedly even great players) were saying PP was "Just dash dancing" with Marth at apex 2015. It makes people think less about what's really going on, especially in a subject or situation where they don't understand. (An easy example would be a new player playing someone who, in their mind, is *Just* doing one or two things). And this is can be happening in an outlet without any character limit (IRL)
Thanks man. Yeah, a lot of the conversation outside of the events itself can feel really reductive. I actually would really love to start a larger conversation about not only how our discussion platforms tie into this, but how the way we talk about the game and treat certain parts of the game as 'holy' or 'untouchable' actually holds back development. The problem is is that the only format I can think of is to make a vlog or a blog, because I don't think there's a great way to really get your voice out anymore as a low-mid level player.
PPMD replied to an abbreviated version of my question, which I sent to him on Twitter, and he said he's only really considered recorded skype calls between good players and thinkers as a sort of alternative to losing SmashBoards as a central discussion hub. I think that's a good start, and maybe I want the impossible, but that still ends up having things be very top-down, where people watch among themselves and then talk among themselves. Or the best we could hope for is that it's a twitch stream, and the two hypothetical good players read your question for you. But that's still not your voice, you're not really there to engage the person.
This here is the best kind of form obviously, but it seems like Reddit, Twitter, Youtube and Twitch really undermined this place, which meant it lost a lot of its value in the process. So otherwise, I don't really have any idea what would be a good alternative place to talk about major ideas >_<
But yeah, I think the Armada example is really good, because it feels like what ends up happening is the following: Esports commentators have to talk about the match very quickly because Melee is a fast game, so they say 'wow, Armada, so consistent,' or 'Mango, such an aggressive player!' And those are right as ... generalizations, or they get one thing right but don't capture anything nearly to the degree of the truth.
But what happens is uninformed players just go to these isolated and isolating hubs of discussion and repeat that, and participation doesn't really form based on argumentation or eloquence or communication, but based on upvotes and downvotes, or follower count on Twitter. And those posts/people feel more like authority figures, which can definitely hamper conversation, even if that's not the intention at all. So all in all, extremely temporary authority figures emerge per thread that repeat the mass opinion because the mass got it from the single streamed Melee source, and then that disseminates rapidly into a sort of nothingness of repetition.
I'm not saying the commentators are at fault here, I'm saying it's like a systemic issue of how the community works and how the game is operated beyond the gameplay level.
But then that means you end up getting Armada or another top player coming down from the heavens basically, and being like 'guys you are too reductive, I am not simply consistent, I am much more than that. It seems like people don't know when I'm playing good or bad.' Which is a great example, because it's totally symptomatic of this problem. Only a top player has the authority to sort of cut through what everyone is saying and say 'no guys, this is wrong.' He's right of course, but the fact that he
has to speak on high towards everyone else is so detrimental, because it then fuels this conception that when a low-level player with a good idea speaks up, the natural response is 'well he isn't top 100, so what does he know?' It in a way has the effect of turning top players into the top posters on a reddit thread, and anyone who is low-level who wants to add a new perspective into the people who are downvoted really hard for no reason.
My last thought: I actually really like what Kevin said about Armada's style at BOT5G. He said something like 'he's not just amazing because of his punish game, but the way that he controls the flow of his punish game, or flows you into his punish game (it was one of those two) is really powerful.' But like, the thing about that, is that's like... a thesis at the college level LOL. That's a claim about Armada. If a commentator said that, the co-commentator would say 'well go on, what do you mean.' And Melee is so FAST that you can't really say that at all. So instead of saying
claims, which advance conversation, commentators state observations, which can be easily absorbed and can't be contradicted. Observations like 'Mango has the reads!' or 'PP's movement is so smooth!' Obviously a good amount of people ignore commentary as it's very simplistic, but the way memes and reductive observations couple can be dangerous, because then they just permeate in the lower levels and kind of suffocate all communication. ESPECIALLY on places like Reddit and Twitter that rewards language and jokes that are easily repeatable for mass enjoyment, because that's what upvotes and retweets encourage.
So yeah that was a
looooooot more than I thought I'd write but I had all these thoughts about this time limit fiasco and I've just been sick and tired of seeing the Melee community run itself into a rut when I feel like there's SO MUCH MORE we can do, but our inability to discuss is not only what is hindering us right now, it's also what will end up hurting us the most in the long term, both in and out of the game.
