FE_Hector
Smash Lord
That makes 2 of us, though I only have 3 months of experience.
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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
AirFair
Marth tho
What grade are you going to? I'm going to be a junior. Goal is to be top 10 in city before I graduate high school. I'd say I'm well on my way
What's it called when you hold down one of the triggers before you plug in so you only get digital inputs? I just don't know the name
I've tried it out today, and my powershielding is looking a lot better. How many of you guys use that?
What's it called when you hold down one of the triggers before you plug in so you only get digital inputs? I just don't know the name
I've tried it out today, and my powershielding is looking a lot better. How many of you guys use that?
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
I'm headed into my Junior year, too. Sounds like a good goal. IDK Raleigh's top 10, but there are 2 major factors that determine my success this year: whether or not I can get through all my schoolwork fast and whether or not we have regular tourneys starting up soon. I've heard a few rumors about regular tourneys but nothing confirmed. The scene over here this summer has been dead and I'm kinda bummed.
AirFair
Marth tho
aw. We have stuff often here, but I can't go bc I have a permit only, and school. Btw I'm going to be a junior too. Does your hs have a scene? Mine doesn't lol.
So, I just had an idea, and I don't know if it's been thought of before, since I don't want to look through every page of this. Since pp uses this thread, what if we all tried to analyze a game together? like, ask questions and look at all the micro stuff.
I watch a lot, but maybe having some other eyes on it can bring out stuff I wouldn't see by myself. Thoughts?
So, I just had an idea, and I don't know if it's been thought of before, since I don't want to look through every page of this. Since pp uses this thread, what if we all tried to analyze a game together? like, ask questions and look at all the micro stuff.
I watch a lot, but maybe having some other eyes on it can bring out stuff I wouldn't see by myself. Thoughts?
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
That sounds like an amazing idea! And no, no scene at my HS
AirFair
Marth tho
I have some match playlists. Goal is one for every char. Atm I have 9, working on the doc one rn ( going down the tier list)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmT7f1878VAFhM3zeh5v8BQ/playlists
Waiting to see if some more experienced players approve.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmT7f1878VAFhM3zeh5v8BQ/playlists
Waiting to see if some more experienced players approve.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
I like the idea and think that the lists look fairly good so far.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
it's called holding down the triggers to only get digital inputs
AirFair
Marth tho
What would I do without yall's wisdom.it's called holding down the triggers to only get digital inputs
What do you think of it's use tho?
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
Depends on how you use the triggers. I use R for shielding and L for air dodges/WD, so it's not a good idea for me if I want a light shield. If you can make it work, I'd say it has some nice utility.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
i think it's pretty useful, but i don't like giving up the ability to lightshield, and i haven't gotten around to learning to use a trigger just for powershielding
AirFair
Marth tho
Yeah, I just realized that the way I was doing it, I wouldn't be able to wd OoS after, which is pretty bad for me, since I used a different trigger than I usually use to shield.
AirFair
Marth tho
YO THE MOON AT XANADU
WE GOTTA TALK ABOUT THE S C O O P S
I think we should look at his games against westballz, and the moon2king ditto, if we decide to analyze stuff together.
WE GOTTA TALK ABOUT THE S C O O P S
I think we should look at his games against westballz, and the moon2king ditto, if we decide to analyze stuff together.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
It's not useless. It's never useless!
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
ideally yes
I figured I'd ask PP this because your Marth's dash dance is so good. From the DD frame data ( http://smashboards.com/threads/2014...nowledge-updated-1-2-14.339520/#post-16153183 ), you can extend the length of a dash by holding the direction longer, but holding too long interrupts the dash early, transitioning to a run. This suggests that you could lengthen your dash dance by holding left for 14 frames, resetting the stick to neutral, then smashing right on the 27th frame. Does anyone actually do this, or do they just smash left and right?
EDIT: PewPewU seems to think this is useful, see this video https://youtu.be/MH3o-FAFcNg?t=54
EDIT: PewPewU seems to think this is useful, see this video https://youtu.be/MH3o-FAFcNg?t=54
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AirFair
Marth tho
I don't think anyone does that. That might be something more useful for foxtrots
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
FlamingForce
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2013
- Messages
- 390
Speaking of wavedashes, why is it that we not make use of rising fair > waveland?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
It should be used more. I think people have just forgotten that it's possible.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I'm really bad at recovering against Fox. I probably get gimped more than I gimp him. Are there any good existing references on recovery in that match-up in particular? Sets to watch or posts on the topic are appreciated.
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lol I have the same problem. Nowadays Foxes seem to always go for the shine gimp. I think it's best to remember to not blindly start your offstage recovery with a forward B stall or double jump aerial. Recently I've been trying to simply respond to the Fox when he jumps off and gets close to me. Since Fair has pretty nice range above you, I think it's always possible to bat off Fox as long as your timing is on point. Other options are UpBing Fox or airdodging, but a low % Fox can still gimp you after an up B.
What I'm still trying to find a way around are Fox/Falco players that just CC Dsmash Up B sweetspot attempts.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
If they really like CC dsmash, avoid the sweetspot. Try to move past them or go a bit higher so you miss and then grab th eledge. Refreshing ledge invincibility is a pretty nice form of stalling a bit, and ledgehop fair should work fine.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Fly playing Marth? Kreygasm
AirFair
Marth tho
if they cc dsmash, you can sweetspot from a little farther out, or just go for a tech if you are on a stage where you can ride a wall.
Beat!
Smash Master
Pretty much any M2K or PPU set should be good study material. M2K because recovering as Marth vs Fox is a rather mixup-heavy affair and he has most of it down to a science, and PPU because he's taken Marth's recovery game overall to new heights.
I'd add some advice myself but it's a fairly broad subject so it's hard to say much beyond the really basic stuff if you don't specify a bit more. One general pointer/rule of thumb is to not rush things. If you have your double jump, a "charged" side-B and decent altitude you can afford to take a little detour (instead of going straight for the ledge) if it gives you more time to dodge or swat away a potential gimp attempt.
I do this a lot, I think it's very useful. The main strength of the tech is that it that you can vary your dd movement more, ideally making it harder for your opponent to read and catch you out of your dd. It's more useful with chars that start running earlier though.
Wding is very different from these 'long dashes'. Wd has 14 frames of start up, while you can act at any point during the dash. The dash is also more flexible, since you can react to your opponent at any point of the dash and vary the length reactively depending on what your opponent does.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
So, I wasn't too sure what exactly the movement was talking about earlier, it sounds really like it's fox trotting. Just using fox trots interspersed with DDs in order to add more variability to movement. If that's what you mean and I'm not completely missing something, then I agree that it can be useful, but the normal DD typically works just fine.
kalamazhu
Smash Journeyman
Any tips against falco in neutral? Specifically the laser stuffs me and forces me to shield and then i lose after that.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
It may force you to shield, but if he's SHLing like he should be, you can WD OoS and after a few times he'll be like oh crap he's too close for that to continue working. Besides that, you might wanna just take the platforms if they're available. TBH the Marth-Falco MU is a pain for Falco. Ask @
20YY SS | Saiblade
, he can probably rant for a while about it
Bones0
Smash Legend
When we played at SSC, I feel like you never fadeaway faired/naired OoS. That alone will prevent you from getting mowed down by button-pressers. Obviously you can't do it every time they laser you because then you just give up space, but you pretty much have to do it sometimes.
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20YY SS | Saiblade
Obviously not biased towards Falco
Power shielding proficiency definitely helps. When you're forced to shield, try to get out using WD OoS. If it's a lower level Falco, their lasers may be high, in which case you can easily just dash under. On a stage with good platforms, you can jump over and waveland to approach. Having a Marth approaching really isn't something that we birds like, so you can do whatever you'd do out of a normal approach, whether it be a fair, nair, or grab. If you don't have platforms, force Falco to approach by loving the ledge, then punish whatever he does badly.
You basically want to shield, but definitely try lightshielding.
By lightshielding, you mess up Falco's spacing since the lasers and aerial follow ups push you away. Marth is able to SH Fair OoS after Falco cancels the laser and tries to attempt a laser followup. Even if he does a short hop laser into a follow up (ex. SH Nair/Dair to Shine) you can still SH Fair OoS since the lightshield will push you far enough to be safe to punish Falco while he's still leaving the Shine animation. Some Falcos like to laser into a dash grab, but by lightshielding you are pushed far enough to react.
You can also get hit by lasers on purpose. Marth can dash, wavedash, jab, etc. in between lasers.
Take a look at this match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAgmV3cCKm0
At 0:24 and 0:54 PPMD just dashes away after getting hit. In the first clip I believe he messes up the DD grab but he gets it on the second clip.
I want to start doing dash away > pivot fsmash out of laser hitstun. Seems hella good when Falco is at higher percents.
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ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Retreating nair is gae.
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vexoskeleton
Smash Apprentice
Given M2K's particular situation, I think his decision to main multiple characters is better. This would be harder to say if he fixed his hands/sleep/etc.@Dr Peepee since you were talking about dual maining before, do you think dual/tri maining was the right choice for m2k or would he have been better off if he had only used marth, fox, or sheik?
I asked The Moon at EVO for just one single tip about Marth in general and he said movement. Where I'm at I'm told my movement in general is "good." But I'm also told by more experienced players that it needs to be more ambiguous. Movement tricks that fool some players do not work against others, I've learned. As far as studying neutral game goes, what should I be looking for while watching you or other Marth players as far as dash dance mixups go?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
There are the main two mixups: dashing away from the opponent and dashing toward the opponent (when near the opponent, this would become dashing THROUGH the opponent).
These have micro-variations: wavedashing away + dashing away and wavedashing toward + dashing toward. The wavedash variant adjusts the starting point of your dash dance, which can be enough of a positional adjustment to avoid aerials or other big hitboxes.
There are a few other ways that you can adjust your positioning precisely (wavedashing in place, sticky walking, cactuar walking).
These have micro-variations: wavedashing away + dashing away and wavedashing toward + dashing toward. The wavedash variant adjusts the starting point of your dash dance, which can be enough of a positional adjustment to avoid aerials or other big hitboxes.
There are a few other ways that you can adjust your positioning precisely (wavedashing in place, sticky walking, cactuar walking).
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