Captaining Project M: Olimar Discussion

[NiPPs]

i really dont have any issues with his recovery at all and im not really playing against anyone bad to use that as an excuse. the only times my recovery gets interrupted is if i use neutral b at the wrong time otherwise my opponent just gets hit by my pikmin chain, or simply cant reach me in time. i never have been gimped by characters other than metaknight and when ivysaur correctly times a up air belly spike thing but thats mostly my fault for recovering improperly

 

[zman804]

So, we had a really good Olimar player at our most recent tournament. Really cool stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TaH5rmmRFI (Vs Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xswn14wwpBY (Vs Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH3MqV9rdH0 (vs Roy and Pit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJIi772IBwM (Vs Fox, Peach and Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDCKfjRRm8Q (Game 1 vs Squirtle, Game 2 vs Lucas)

The first link I posted is really good example of how Olimar can get out of Luca pressure.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Wow, this videos are really helpful. Love the way SS adapted to the Lucas pressure. He started reading his approaches so well, such as clashing the pikmin with the Ice ball, wavedashing back and grabbing the nair or other aerial approach.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Good stuff
that lucas pressure was killin me
Rolls looking like the answer lol I'm a lil surprised none of those rolls really got punished.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

I watched those videos of Olimar fights and while he is very good with him, I think he did so well because people hadn't played against Olimar and didn't know what to expect. They almost never exploited his weaknesses or took advantage of him being off the edge. I think that as people learn to play against him he won't stand much of a chance. The way they played against him for the most part was to hit and combo a little bit, then back off. They often kept their distance with him which works in his favor.

The best ways to beat him is to be very aggressive and when he's off stage, you need to go out after him. He's mostly helpless and a simple tap after he either Nuetral B's or uses his second jump will take a stock almost for sure. He also will likely need to Whistle to get his Pikmin back. He is incredibly easy to gimp as his recovery can be very predictable.

 

[OMalley]

can someone please set up an olimar video thread?

 

[.fube]

This is not very practical, but I have managed to make use of it a few different times. If you roll into the edge of any flat stage and take exactly 3 steps from the edge then you can only pull purple and white Pikmin. The others will fall off. I am sure that a lot of people already knew this, and it really isn't very practical, but I figured it was worth sharing.

Other small things:

-landing a white Pikmin on someone while they are offstage is a great setup for edgeguards.

-Olimar's tech chasing game is great. Tech chasing heavies out of down throw is good for racking up percent early. Oli is a bit slow, but if you read the tech wrong or can not get there fast enough you can simply throw a Pikmin to at least guarantee some sort of damage and keep up pressure. It is also easy to catch techs with purples. If you Pikmin Throw Waveland (what are we calling this?) out of a purple throw and the purple connects, you can sometimes followup with a regrab at low percents.

-Though its cheesy, Olimar can play pretty well from the ledge. I'm still experimenting with things, but it looks promising.

Also, please stop proposing HUGE Olimar changes. I'm having so much fun with this ****.

 

[The7thProxy]

So I want to voice my main concerns with Olimar here. I'm a Melee player and I have little to no experience playing competitive Brawl, but of all the competitive Brawl I've watched, one thing really concerns me: The different effects and uses of the Pikmin colors. In Brawl I would see players constantly sorting through their pikmin to get a good line up for more damage, or maybe it's situational? I'm not too sure. To me, this seems like horrible game design. Having a character with an inconsistent moveset is so off putting. No guaranteed combos or knockback, and a player has to keep track of this random pikmin line up as opposed to actually playing. They mentioned in the video that white pikmin have a special property, and I think that could be fine, it could be like a stitch face or other random object because A: it's noticeable and B: there's only one! I would like to see Olimar's pikmin have the same knockback, damage, etc. but only have different aesthetic effects.

What are your thoughts? Do any Brawl Olimars have any insight into how important a good Pikmin line up is and how you might be able to transfer that into a melee environment? Would this affect combos and set ups? Would Olimar become a character like Ice Climbers in that he has a potent combo and offensive game but he has to keep track of some weird factor (For ICs Nana, for Olimar Pikmin)?

Discuss.

This is why I love Olimar. You can change up your attacks depending on what pikmin you have. It doesn't always have to be the same combos. If you get lucky with maybe two white pikmin and two purple pikmin, you do do an awesome combo with that. Or if you get unlucky and get a bad combo of pikmin, you can make your own combo with that. I love Olimar for that reason.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

So, we had a really good Olimar player at our most recent tournament. Really cool stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TaH5rmmRFI (Vs Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xswn14wwpBY (Vs Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH3MqV9rdH0 (vs Roy and Pit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJIi772IBwM (Vs Fox, Peach and Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDCKfjRRm8Q (Game 1 vs Squirtle, Game 2 vs Lucas)

The first link I posted is really good example of how Olimar can get out of Luca pressure.

What tournament is this and what were the character placements??

 

[OMalley]

i found this comic, and i thought it was hilarious/relevant to pikmin flowering.
http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/a...to-think-pikmin-are-like-sea-monkeys-for-them

 

[tripwire]

Is it just me or is Olimar too fun? I might make him my third, there is something kinda satisfying about his kit.

 

[B.W.]

Trip, you will never Olimar like me.

 

[tripwire]

Trip, you will never Olimar like me.

Idk how good he is. But he is so fun currently def gonna be a friendlies character for me. I wanna see how deep his Meta will go. I expect a slight buff/mechanic change eventually though.

 

[B.W.]

If you can make it to the next WDW and I can make it as well, we'll do Olimar dittos. It'll be good times trying to figure out who's Pikmin are who's.

 

[GeZ]

If you can make it to the next WDW and I can make it as well, we'll do Olimar dittos. It'll be good times trying to figure out who's Pikmin are who's.

My friends will **** with my by demanding four player games with four Olimars. It's nightmarish.

 

[tripwire]

I really like using Whistle to turn my self around midair.

 

[Pimpfish]

I like to use whistle to wavebounce to waveland for trickiness. Shorthop, then wavebounce to forward air. or mixed in with full hops. I think there is a lot of potential for Olimars down-b.

ive noticed some pikmin desyncing while underneath platforms. If you have no pikmin and use neutral-b underneath a platform, when the pikmin lands you can use any smash and it will be performed on the platform.

If you put one pikmin on the platform with upsmash you can do the same thing as long as it is on the platform.

 

[Oracle]

someone with brawlbox should go in and find the terrain IDs for all the new stages so we can figure out where we pull what pikmmin more. The only ones i know are that you pull more purples on lylat and you pulway more purples on the grated part of delfino's stage

 

[Blondie.]

someone with brawlbox should go in and find the terrain IDs for all the new stages so we can figure out where we pull what pikmmin more. The only ones i know are that you pull more purples on lylat and you pulway more purples on the grated part of delfino's stage

Assuming it's the same as Brawl, you can find a lot of the values here http://smashboards.com/threads/defl...-guide-of-infinite-knowledge-not-done.224450/

For new stages, I guess you have to guess what each terrain is.

 

[Oracle]

Thats what I want to find out. No idea what the terrains are on new stages

 

[GeZ]

I'd just like to omit that when I asked one of the dev's about the pikmin pulling variables depending on the stage, he said that it was so slight memorizing it didn't have any great impact on your ability to consistently pull the pikmin you wanted to pull.

 

[GeZ]

Have any of you guys noticed that in certain positions around the opponent, Olimar's Dsmash will hit with both of the pikmin that run outward?

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

Have any of you guys noticed that in certain positions around the opponent, Olimar's Dsmash will hit with both of the pikmin that run outward?

I havent noticed that before, but I did kill a Marth on the Left side while on the right side of FD at 60% from a D-Smash. Did it deal double damage?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I havent noticed that before, but I did kill a Marth on the Left side while on the right side of FD at 60% from a D-Smash. Did it deal double damage?

Did the right or left pikmin hit him?

 

[B.W.]

Yeah you can hit with both Pikmin usually doing a solid 21+% depending on your Pikmin

 

[GeZ]

I havent noticed that before, but I did kill a Marth on the Left side while on the right side of FD at 60% from a D-Smash. Did it deal double damage?

It deals the damage of both Pikmin so pseudo double damage.

Did the right or left pikmin hit him?

And the point of it is that they both hit. It's pretty neat.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Probably everyone knows that right now, but still:
Pikmin change order:
These moves make the used pikmin to the last in row:
Fair, Bair, Up-air, Dair, Side-b (when/if it returns), Up-smash, F-smash, Grab (if it works or fails doesnt matter)
These moves do different order change:
Up-B: in the animation itself the used pikmin is now the one furthest from you away etc. but after the move order is normal again
D-smash: Used pikmin gets in front of you and gets 2nd last after the move, second pikmin in row gets behind you and last in row after the move.
With that order in mind, the options you choose may be dependent on your order:
e.g. blue-purple-red-yellow: you might go for a blue grab, a purple up-smash, followed by a red fair.
Regarding this, sometimes an emtpy move is also a possibility (or a low landing lag aerial before landing) just to change order as you want

EDIT: Down-b randomizes your pikmin order. If you down-b during a side-bd pikmin is coming back, it is randomized not last. If you do down-b too early, that pikmin is last. A newly plucked pikmin is last. See Oracles post... Messed up sth

 

[Oracle]

none of that is true during down b. down b will place your pikmin in this order- red yellow blue white purple. after that, the next whistle will move the first color in your chain to the end of the line, ignoring themissing colors. so if your order was initially white yellow red, then your first whisle would yield red yellow white, and yyour next whistle would go yelow white red, and the next one white red yellow

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Boss has a pretty nice Olimar. I saw him do some stuff I haven't seen/done before. I saw him against JC's ROB and one thing he did was sh fair(no FF with a leaf pikmin)>nair in the same hop. This makes me think, that we can do this against people rob's height and taller. The person we also try this against, probably has to be rather slow.

 

[B.W.]

Even before that though, if you have Pikmin out of line and you whistle they'll return before switching order at all

 

[B.W.]

So something not so fantastic I think I discovered about the Yellow Pikmin is it might be smaller in P:M than it was in Brawl.

I went to the training stage on training mode and when I swung all of the Pikmin with F-Air to see how much more range it had (cause we can't Brawlbox it) it didn't seem to hit from any further away than the other Pikmin.

Test it yourselves and please prove me wrong cause that would probably make Yellow second worst after White.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

So something not so fantastic I think I discovered about the Yellow Pikmin is it might be smaller in P:M than it was in Brawl.

I went to the training stage on training mode and when I swung all of the Pikmin with F-Air to see how much more range it had (cause we can't Brawlbox it) it didn't seem to hit from any further away than the other Pikmin.

Test it yourselves and please prove me wrong cause that would probably make Yellow second worst after White.

Hmm, I feel the hitbox on a flowered yellow is bigger on the aerials only. Even if that isn't true, you have to remember, they have more hitstun when flowered. Because of the eletric effect, so they would lead to kill moves easier, early and they are the most combo friendly in our line up. In addition to that, their side B arc is unique. I posted about it before, I just can't remember the specifics behind it, at the moment.

 

[B.W.]

The stun isn't really significant enough though unfortunately. Especially because they also knock back more when they flower. They do have a unique arc but the fact that Pikmin Throw is more of an annoyance unless you can catch someone in a combo makes that trait kind of moot

 

[B.W.]

Alright, after more testing, it definitely does get a bigger hitbox. Maybe it didn't seem like it/didn't do it because I was doing it on dolphin at first. Dolphin has some problems with Olimar for some reason, so for anyone who uses dolphin at all, don't use it for Olimar testing.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

So, I recently got PM setup on my dolphin, and I may have ****ed it up. But, I think this i one of those good **** ups. One of the things that have changed, is Olimar. I have the PM Olimar, but my fsmash has more range, the hit box stays out a little longer, AND I HAVE 6PIKMIN
****ING VIEWTIFUL OMG
It feels so right. I think this fsmash is broken tho, lol.

 

[B.W.]

You're playing with PM F-Smash. It's not that good.

6 Pikmin is a Dolphin thing. For some reason he's not limited to his 4, but they all have their PM changes.

When I'm on netplay I tend to try to keep my count at 4 because of practice reasons, but it can help to have 6 max for testing reasons.

Though there might be other things messed up about Olimar.

 

[JRC LSS]

Does anyone know why Olimar's throws are weight independent? Like, an fthrow will kill Jiggs at the same percent as it kills Bowser. Is it just to make him unique? Was it for balancing reasons? Is it a glitch?

 

[B.W.]

This is a question for @ KuroganeHammer

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm pretty sure all throws pretend the opponents weight is 100. Throws are still affected by gravity though, so up throw will kill Jigglypuff faster than wolf (110 vs 175)

 

[JRC LSS]

I'm pretty sure all throws pretend the opponents weight is 100. Throws are still affected by gravity though, so up throw will kill Jigglypuff faster than wolf (110 vs 175)

Ah, thank you. I can't believe I didn't know that before. I'm more used to Brawl than melee, so I just assumed that throw knockback depended on weight (not to mention every other move depends on weight).

Anyway, to keep it Olimar related:
Did you guys know that if you jump right underneath a ledge (I think it needs to be slanted like BF, FD, etc.), and then use your tether, you can land right on the stage almost instantly? I'm sure this is known by now, but I haven't seen anyone use it yet. It seems like it would be useful somehow.