• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Captain Olimar?

Status
Not open for further replies.

FiErCe_oNi

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
1,355
Location
Ballarat, Australia
i think that olimar woukd be very weak and hav weak attacks, making him considered useless.
but his pikmin ability would be so good that if any other character could use them to the full advantage they would be totally broken.

i think yellow pikmin would be plucked with bomb rocks. if you call them back with a whistle they would release their bomb and run back.
 

magnebula

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
360
Location
Cherry Hill, New Jersey
Exactly how I want it to be! I dont think he would be all that useless... it would be like with the Ice Climbers, two of them are better than one. So in general, I think Olimar should be 1/3 as strong without Pikmin than with Pikmin.
 

FiErCe_oNi

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
1,355
Location
Ballarat, Australia
im sayin by himself he would be weak and vulnerable so he depends on pikmin swarms to deal damage and protect him until he can finish them off with a smash attack. maybe B side could be a powerful punch. or he could have throws where all his pikmin gang up.
 

PlayaFritz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
175
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Who know's they may even decide to put Lou in as well, maybe even ChuChu to. Ahh I can see it now "There's ****in three of em"
 

yakko789

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
81
Location
Salt Lake UT
yeah he should be in it. He'd use his pikmin for attacks though. haha what a weakling. I don't know how that would work cause he's the size of a quarter.
 

dotdotdot!

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,303
Location
Washington


It's alive. IT'S ALIVE IT'S ALIVE!

So yeah. Captain Olimar. Remember him? He's awesome.

To those of us just joining the argument:

Quibble: He's too small (size of a quarter)
Counter-quibble: They'll re-size him (Example Kirby is an inch tall, Bowser is the size of a house)

Quibble: He can't fight. He just uses his Pikmin.
Counter-Quibble: Why is that a problem? As a character, Olimar is supposed to be somewhat fragile, and the brain tank at Sora could probably come up with something brilliant, like the Ice Climbers. Also, there have been both Pikmin-centric and non-pikmin-centric movesets made for him, So just choose your flavor.

Quibble: Too minor to Nintendo.
Counter-Quibble: While I can't technically argue with that, seeing as how relatively ill-recieved the Pikmin games were (You either love them to the bitter end, or you hate them with all your heart it seems) and seeing as how Ninty hasn't announced a new one for Wiivolution, their chances seemed to have dipped. But! Miyamoto is fond of Oli, and the fact that a sequel was made only goes to prove that Pikmin was at least popular enough. Plus the Gamecube season wasn't particularly kind to Nintendo in any case, so you might say that had something to do with it. Personally, I think a Pikmin game for Wii (perhaps an MMO or Animal-crossing sort of thing(Colonize the Pikmin planet), using the online feature) would work brilliantly, but thats getting off-track.

Quibble: Overpowered (Due to Pikmin overexposure)
Counter Quibble: Okay then, thats why it would be balanced by something else, crappy base stats or weaksauce attacks without pikmin.

Quibble: Underpowered (Due to Crappy base stats and weaksauce attacks without Pikmin)
Counter-Quibble: That's why you give him Pikmin to strengthen him, thus the circular argument is closed and complete. Personally, I think that if a character can be vieweed as Overpowered and underpowered in the same thread, that means he must have at least the potential to be balanced. Wouldn't you say?



Also, the various arguments for or against movesets involving Pikmin:

For:
True to the source games
Interesting and fun playstyle and mechanical awesomeness
Sweet amount of chaos.

Against:
Possible lack of balance
Too much chaos
Don't like the idea of "Follow-me-follow-you" characters like IC, so having that times 5 to 20 would be a bit extreme.

You can form your own opinions on that. I am of the opinion that Oli should use Pikmin.

So, Bumptastic.
 

Pustulio

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
864
Location
Probably out eating some dirt or something.
Correction: He used the Pikmin to defend himself. They would have to be his moves.
Ummmmm.....................
Hold on here now the Pikmin didn't always defend him he had to defend the Pikmin sometimes, his triple punch thing from Pikmin 2 could be a very good attack, heck he could even set off the bombrocks in Pikmin 2 so he does have some ability.

Anyways, the idea of Olimar in Brawl has been in my favor since they announced that they were making a 3rd game. I think that Pikmin is one of the most unique games out there and I think that it needs a representetive (Olimar) and the random plucking idea would work quite well, with the Yellows with bombs being the least common and then the Whites and then Purples, then have REd and the most common be blue.
Yellows: Release bomb rock
Whites: Give off a poison that does increasing damage
Purples: Stun opponent or in the event of a direct hit does an incredable amount of damage.
Reds: Stronger attacks
Blues: Nothing special to be utilized in Brawl
 

Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
697
Location
Pennsylvania
Yo, the olimar fan is back!

hey, its me meta_owns_ur_mom. lol :laugh:
AH! This thread is like...dieing! :confused: Olimar is supercool. I'm gonna make a super cool new perfect flawless killer kick a$$ mega ultra big ultimate fly move set. J/k, that might start a new arguement between me and dot again. :psycho:
Alright, meta out :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
 

dotdotdot!

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,303
Location
Washington
hey, its me meta_owns_ur_mom. lol :laugh:
AH! This thread is like...dieing! :confused: Olimar is supercool. I'm gonna make a super cool new perfect flawless killer kick a$$ mega ultra big ultimate fly move set. J/k, that might start a new arguement between me and dot again. :psycho:
Alright, meta out :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
Hey now. Don't go starting any unnecessary fights. I'm up for "Friendliest member" after all.:laugh:
 

Nubz010

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
7
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I got money running on olimar. He would definetly be my main. his super smash attack would be something ridiculous, like hundreds of pikmin morphing on to olimar, then forming a giant fist and pikmin punch everyone. instant KO.
 

Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
697
Location
Pennsylvania
I got money running on olimar. He would definetly be my main. his super smash attack would be something ridiculous, like hundreds of pikmin morphing on to olimar, then forming a giant fist and pikmin punch everyone. instant KO.
LOL! yeah he would be my main too. well, itll be a tough choice because theres Meta, and sonic and Geno might get in...
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
Captain Olimar



Weight: 2
Size: 2
Strength: 3
Speed: 3
Reach: 2.5

Star of the Pikmin series Olimar is one heck of a fella. In just a few hours he manages to enslave a race of kind-natured flower people, abuse them by throwing them at things to get
his slave labour done and even has them killing the local wildlife in order to recycle their corpses for making more Pikmin (who are born into slavery). That's just Pikmin 1 though, he does it again in Pikmin 2 but this time in order to pay off a big loan his company has racked up. Just to give you an idea, as explained in the introduction, 100 "pokos" is over 1 year's salary and the aim of Pikmin 2 is to clear the remainder of the debt of 10,000 pokos, that's like...over 100 years salary. Talk about badass, Ganondorf can eat his heart out. Being first party and a game that has produced nothing but excellent titles since Pikmin 1 and 2 were 9.0 and 9.2 games on Gamespot and I think even higher on IGN, 3 on Wii is practically a dead cert. To make the games sell even better, what better than to include the protagonist in Brawl to promote the franchise?

Onto the actual moveset though, the majority of the uniqueness of Olimar would be his Pikmin buddies. After all, it's the game's focus and Olimar's primary way of whooping ***. He can actually fight himself, the Pikmin aren't necessary for him to fight (although incredibly necessary to complete the game, obviously) and so he's more than Brawl-worthy.
I should start off by explaining that there are 5 different kind of Pikmin that you can use primarily in Pikmin 2 and 2 unique but not really obtainable Pikmin in 1 and 2. These 5 main ones are Red, Yellow, Blue, White and Purple. Each have different strengths and weaknesses and like in Pikmin they'll be gotten by plucking them from the ground, but Olimar will start with 4 randomly generated Pikmin in order to not completely gimp him.

The Different Pikmin

You can have up to 15 Pikmin at one time. Oh and I better mention that pikmin when in the air are hapless. No, they can't DI, don't be silly. I should also note that any Pikmin currently engaging in hostile acts on an opponent can't be used in Olimar's attacks, even if they are in range.

Basic Pikmin Mechanics: When thrown will attack and follow the closest target, like in Pikmin, however if the closest target is Olimar they will return to his side. Pikmin come in the 3 different stages of evolution: Leaf, Bud and Flower. Leaf is the most basic, a bud will increase their attack speed by 0.2 seconds and runspeed slightly, while a flower will increase their runspeed slightly, attack speed by a further 0.2 seconds and damage 1%. If a Pikmin lands on you, depending on their weight your runspeed and jump height will be lowered slighty. To rid yourself of a Pikmin, waggle the analogue stick <-, ->, <-, ->. While a Pikmin is attached to you it's attack speed increases slightly by 0.3 seconds. Pikmin evolve by being used in a killing move or after every 15 hits.

Reddy!



Attack Speed: 1.5 seconds
Damage: 3% per hit.
Weight: 2.5
Speed: 3
Immunities: Fire/Explosions
Special Abilities: None
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 175% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a red pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 2.5 on 175% damage)

Most basic Pikmin and the first you get, they are also the strongest of the original trio of Yellow, Red and Blue. Immune to fire and so immune to explosions aka. bomb-ombs.

Yellowy!



Attack Speed: 1.2 seconds
Damage: 2%
Weight: 2
Speed: 3
Immunities: Lightning
Special Abilities: None
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 200% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a yellow pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 2 on 200% damage)

The 2nd type of Pikmin you are introduced to in Pikmin 1, Yellow's are the lightest are thus are capable of being thrown the furthest. Immune to lightning attacks such as PK Thunder.

Bluey!



Attack Speed: 1.5 seconds
Damage: 2%
Weight: 3.5
Speed: 3
Immunities: Water
Special Abilities: None
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 125% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a blue pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 3 on 150% damage)

3rd regular type of Pikmin and the last one found in Pikmin 1. Able to withstand water attacks such as Blastoise (if he's back in Brawl :(). Slightly heavier than the other 2 and cannot be thrown as far.

Sorry for the terrible, terrible picture. Honestly, there was no good ones of the blue Pikmin >.>

Whitey! (aka. the Albino Pikmin)



Attack Speed: 1.0 seconds
Damage: 1%
Weight: 3
Speed: 5
Immunities: Poison
Special Abilities: 3% chance on hit poison which deals 2% damage every second for 5 seconds. If ingested (a la Kirby or Yoshi's swallow moves), that opponent is automatically poisoned.
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 150% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a white pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 3 on 150% damage)

This one seriously scares the crap out of me. Just don't look into it's eyes! Fastest of all the Pikmin and is partially made of toxins I believe. Immune to poison (since it's body contains it) and so immune to poison mushrooms.

Purpley! (aka. the Sumo Pikmin)


Attack Speed: 2 seconds
Damage: 4%
Weight: 4.5
Speed: 1
Immunities: None
Special Abilities: Apart from being the fattest son'of'a... around, none
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 75% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a purple pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 5 on 75% damage)

This guy seriously puts on a pound a minute. Even throwing him near an enemy stuns them in Pikmin 2. Obviously has the highest weight and damage at the cost of speed and throwing distance, these guys are heavy brawlers and cause the most slowing and jump height reduction when thrown onto someone. As hard as they are to knock away, they don't have any immunities (except to indigestion).

Good so far eh? We're just getting started!

The Actual Moveset

Finally, onto Olimar's actual moves. That's a lot of information to get down before you can even get onto this stuff, if Sakurai ever finds this moveset and thinks "Wow, that's such an excellent idea!" he'll put it in manual. I hope.

A moves

A - Right fisted punch - 2%, loooooooow knockback
AA - Left fisted punch - 2% loooooooooow knockback
AAA - Olimar's special Rocket Punch(tm)(R)...maybe not...Olimar sticks out both his fists in a double fisted punch of glory - 4% med-low knockback
Dash A - Rush Boots, you slide at 1.5 times your running speed for a short distance, semi-bad wind-down lag though - 8% medium knockback
A -> tilt - Headbutt - 10%, medium knockback
A^ tilt - Rising headbutt - 9% medium knockback
Av - Pik-a-grab, grabs a Pikmin and sweeps out the opponents feet. Knockback, speed and damage vary on the Pikmin sweeping with, ranging from 6%->10%, low -> med-high knockback.

A -> Smash - Swing-a-pik, for every 3 pikmin, Olimar grabs a random pikmin by the flower (so cruel) and swings them forward. Damage is 10% + the damage of each pikmin, knockback and speed again depends on the type of Pikmin and the number. If no pikmin are near, Olimar hits for 10%.

A^ Smash - Soar-a-pik, for every 5 pikmin, Olimar grabs a random pikmin by the flower and swings them in an arc upwards. 10% + pikmin damage, speed and knockback variable. If no pikmin are near, Olimar hits for 10%.

Av Smash - Kik-a-pik, All the pikmin around him kick (both sides, so it wouldn't be 15 pikmin on 1 side kicking) for their base damage with good knockback, if no pikmin are currently following Olimar, he does a 360 floor sweep for 8% with low-med knockback.

Nair - Spins around - 2% each hit with low knockback, last one has medium knockback
Bair - Donkey kick - 5% good knockback
Uair - Somersault kick (he's had zero g training after all) - 6% medium knockback
Dair - Mid-air headbutt (kinda like a reverse of his Uair and instead of kicking them, thwacks them with his helmet) - 5%, meteor
Fair - Your standard kick - 5% medium knockback

B moves

These are probably going to be a bit more indepth.

B - Ye olde "Whistle" - Olimar uses this to command his little buddies. Tapping B will make a short shrill whistle noise which is the go ahead for the pikmin to change the order in which they are standing, meaning you can select which pikmin are closest to you at any given time by taps of B. The default formation is Purple -> White -> Red -> Blue -> Yellow and will change as such so the front goes to the back (ie. W->R->B->Y->P is the next formation). Formations are there to give you greater control over which Pikmin you are throwing and with practice will become second nature, even in the heat of a battle, and like everything would just take practice getting used to managing them.

Holding down B will make all pikmin in 4 body-lengths of Olimar will attempt to make their way back to his side. While holding down B (so after 1/2 -> 3/4 of a second), Olimar is forced to continue to whistle for the remainder of 2 seconds and is unable to move or attack during this time.

B -> - Hurl-a-Pik - Throws a pikmin, how hard depends on how far you tilt the control stick. They follow a set trajectory of the classic arc, and will also go different distances depending on their weight. Holding the control stick full tilt and throwing a purple pikmin will yield roughly the same result as throwing a yellow pikmin at under half tilt.

B^ - Dolphin Rocket - Olimar's rocket is also his recovery move! Upon using this move Olimar is instant in his rocket which moves on a shaky trajectory diagonally upwards. You can also control this a little, such as veer it in a direction. Any surrounding pikmin which are falling relatively near to Olimar are taken up in the Onions around the S.S. Dolphin. Upon moving for 1.5 seconds or so, the dolphin explodes out of habit sending 3 randomly generated parts upwards, diagonally down to the right and diagonally down to the left. These parts are parts which you collect from Olimar's ship in Pikmin 1 and all do 5% damage except the secret safe which does 8% and the Massage Machine and the Space Float (with lower chances of appear) which do a healthy 10%.

Bv - Pick-a-Pik - Probably the most complicated one of all that will take some time to explain. Pick-a-Pik works as sectioned areas of each stage where each section has a 60% common chance and 40% uncommon chance of plucking 2 different kinds of Pikmin. Battlefield for example might be split into 5 different sections, the 3 different platforms and the main floor split in half. On these sections 2 types of Pikmin can be plucked (skilled Olimar's will know which Pikmin to get where on each stage) in those 2 percentages but the rarer Pikmin (white and purple) can only ever occur as 40% uncommon chances, so a purple/white or white/purple combination won't happen, but a red/blue could.

To actually pick the Pikmin, Olimar must hold down and press B at which point it will take 2 seconds to pick a Leaf Pikmin form that area. Subsequent presses of B (while still holding down) will yield Pikmin at 1 second delays. The first 2 Pikmin to be picked will be Leaf Pikmin, the next 3 will be Bud Pikmin and all subsequent Pikmin will be Flower Pikmin, up to the maximum of 15 Pikmin. If you start picking with 0 Pikmin, it's possible to pick up to 10 Flower Pikmin.

Grab moves

A (while holding) - Sly dig - 3%
Forward - Bum's rush, 1-3 Pikmin by Olimar grab the opponent and do the Bum's rush on him ::chuckle: (6-9% high knockback), no Pikmin and Olimar weakly attempts it himself resulting in 3% damage and low knockback

Back - Pik-a-Swing, 1-3 Pikmin grab the opponent's feet and swing him backwards for 5-8% damage and med-high knockback, if no Pikmin, Olimar attempts to do it by himself for 3% damage and low-med knockback.

Down - Pik-a-pounce, Olimar throws the opponent to the floor, 1-6 Pikmin + Olimar jump on one end of the floored opponent for half their totaled base damage + 3% and med-high knockback depending on Pikmin weights. If no Pikmin, Olimar once again foolishly attempts it by himself and doesn't get very far, 3% damage and very low knockback.

Up - Pik-a-Punch, Olimar releases the opponent and uppercuts them at the same time as 1-5 Pikmin. Damage and knockback depends on Pikmin's strength. If no Pikmin, Olimar does it by himself for 3% damage and low knockback.

Final Smash Move

Pikmin Bomb Squad!

The S.S. Dolphin flies in from the top left of the screen over the battlefield and exits again to the top right, pausing only to fire the Nova Blaster down on Olimer's position. Any enemies caught in the dazzling beam are stunned as if their shield was broken. Any yellow pikmin bathed in the light acquire bomb rocks with a minimum of 3. If 3 yellow pikmin aren't present, 3 random pikmin caught in the light will be transformed into yellow bomb pikmin and if 3 pikmin aren't present (if any), then any pikmin caught in the light will be transformed and up to 3 bomb pikmin appear to a maximum of 3 in total. However, if 15 pikmin of that Olimer are present on the battlefield but none caught in the beam, the bomb pikmin will not appear.

Yellow bomb pikmin are able to be thrown as far as regular yellow pikmin and if they land on an opponent after being thrown will automatically explode for 15% damage and high knockback and the pikmin will automatically be star-ko'd. A yellow bomb pikmin will give chase to any opponents they land near like regular pikmin, but instead will self-detonate (star-ko'ing itself) and do 10% damage and med-high knockback. If the opponent attempts to evade the pikmin and succeeds (so the pikmin cannot follow), he will attempt to throw the bomb rock at the opponent with a good degree of precision for 7% damage and med knockback but unfortunately not a star-ko :(.

Taunt

All the pikmin by Olimar's side line up facing the screen and do the leaf-mexican-wave from the good ending of Pikmin 1, speed varies on how many pikmin are in the line as to always be the same amount of time for the taunt. If no pikmin are by Olimar's side, he looks left, then right (as if looking for the pikmin) and then bows his head (in realisation that he's all alone *tear*).

Kirby Hat

Kirby dons the entire spacesuit with a small (non-spherical) helmet over the top third of his head. Kirby's B move now plucks and throws pikmin. Holding B will pluck the pikmin from the ground at the same rate as Olimar does but Kirby is not adept at throwing the pikmin. Upon tapping B Kirby throws the pikmin horizontally for less distance than Olimar as they spin through the air. Like Olimar's pikmin they well give chase and attack nearby opponents but due to their spinning in the air will bounce off of any enemies they are thrown at for their base damage rather than landing on them.

It's not exactly orthodox, but nothing about an Olimar moveset really could be :laugh: and the way the controls are set up at the moment (B for whistle, side B to throw pikmin, down B to pluck) at least make sense and such things as the whistle will feel natural for Pikmin players. Thus making one which would also make sense for Kirby's B would be practically impossible.

I think that about wraps it up for the my Olimar moveset. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_slmbAtWe0

^ Awesome Pikmin advert, well worth checking out.

If anyone is unfamiliar with Pikmin and the gameplay behind it, check out this music video of Pikmin clips from Pikmin 2. While it's not exactly a tutorial video or anything you might be able to at least pick up some gameplay mechanics and how **** awesome Pikmin is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRmY9EYmj9U

 

dotdotdot!

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,303
Location
Washington
Neat. I like it. I wonder about giving the pikmin immunities. Doing that basically makes one brand of pikmin almost completely immune to certain characters, Like Reds Vs. Captain Falcon. Cap is screwed.
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
While some of his slow powerful fire attacks would be, he has a plentiful amount of attacks that aren't elemental and the only Pikmin that isn't relatively easy to K.O. hasn't got any immunities. Since Pikmin was so inventive in using the different elements to alter gameplay I think it'd be a shame to lose that characteristic in translation to a Brawl moveset. Glad you liked it though ^^.
 

Pomfrod

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
161
The view is clear--I've had trouble imagining how they could will implement Olimar in Brawl, but this is the best and most game-relevant moveset I've seen. The important thing to remember is that Olimar is nothing without his Pikmin, and vice-versa. My only qualm is that it's excessively complicated, almost approaching the actual game. My hope is that the Olimar we see for Brawl is just like this, only somewhat simplified.

And did you consider the sprays from Pikmin 2 as possible super smashes as well?
 

Ulubai

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
39
i came to this thread to explain why i didn't think olimar had any reason to be in brawl
after reading vali's moveset and explanation i completely want to play his cpt. Olimar
viva la pikmin!
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
854
Location
Themyscira
I am a big fan of the Pikmin games and I would love to see Olimar become a character in brawl. Also for the Pick-a-pik move, i think that the plucking time for pikmin should be much faster because fast characters like fox and sheik would be able to KO all his pikmin and then attack him before he has a chance to pick anymore out.

oh also, when olimar does his B^ are the pikmin that he has with him also saved?

I think that Olimar's whistle should also be used on enemies, for example he could use his b move and if anyone is in the way of it they get turned around like mario's cape.
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
The view is clear--I've had trouble imagining how they could will implement Olimar in Brawl, but this is the best and most game-relevant moveset I've seen. The important thing to remember is that Olimar is nothing without his Pikmin, and vice-versa. My only qualm is that it's excessively complicated, almost approaching the actual game. My hope is that the Olimar we see for Brawl is just like this, only somewhat simplified.

And did you consider the sprays from Pikmin 2 as possible super smashes as well?
To be honest I only unlocked them about an hour ago ^^; but they would make a good choice. My reason for over-complicating things is because it'd make Olimar a very unique and fun experience to learn and play in my opinion and with all of the above traits it would add a lot of depth and strategy to playing him. While reading through the information it may seem a bit complicated yes but you have to remember that translation to game would be relatively simple and wouldn't take long to get used to. At the end of the day it boils down to using the weaker, lighter pikmin for speedy attacks, added range of throws and a better pikmin chase game (since they'd be harder to get away from) up to the heavier, stronger pikmin for slower, more powerful attacks but less range.

A lot of the mechanics there such as all the knockback and varying degree of strengths would all be handled by the game, and all you'd have to worry about is what type of pikmin to throw at your opponent and managing between having pikmin to bolster your A moves and using them at range to damage, overwhelm and play mindgames with the opponent. I just wanted to get most of the precise game mechanics down to give the moveset a bit of credibility ^^. Thank you for your concern though, possibly if when Olimar is put in to Brawl the moveset would end up playing out as well as I hope this one would while being simplified.

I chose to go with bomb rock army since it'd be great fun to use and strengthens greatly an Olimar which focuses on yellow pikmin who possibly are the weakest of all of them, since they are weak and easy to K.O. Since I believe smash emblems will be included in the balancing of characters and not a tacked on after-thought as others, there's a good chance they'll be left in during competitive play (such as if it's the only way to access ZSamus it would be unfair to deny a player that choice) and it greatly strengthens a yellow pikmin team play.

The trouble with the sprays would be that if you petrified an opponent(s) for a few seconds with it and it was undodgable then it'd be far too cheap and if it was limited range then it'd be incredibly predicatable and probably quite useless. An attack boosting spray might favour the stronger pikmin (purples and reds) far more than blues and yellows and so there'd be no incentive to build a variety of armies and would probably influence a heavy domination of purple/red pikmin teams. Also bomb rocks reward a player's competant pikmin management and a good aim, since this provides the most damage.

One thing I'm still unsure of though is the benefit to blues. Since water is undeniably the worst of the 3 elemental immunities in Smash since currently there is one water level and one water attack (Blastoise) and with that unlikely to change in Brawl a great deal, they need something more to balance them out and make them a viable option. If anyone has any great ideas (all I can think of so far is up their weight a notch while retain their speed) please post.

oh also, when olimar does his B^ are the pikmin that he has with him also saved? .
Any pikmin near Olimar as he's falling would be saved, yes, I should include that in the description thank you. It would make sense so that any pikmin hit off near the edge won't automatically be doomed even at lower perecentages and would allow a player to choose to save some of his pikmin and risk being edgeguarded if he himself is not hit off as well.

I wonder how kirby's olimar suite would work.
I've updated the moveset to show that. Thank you for alerting me that I'd forgotten hit, hell at first I even forgot the super smash ^^.
 

Citrussed

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
303
Location
Melbourne!
I like the idea of 'immunities'. Like yellow pikmin would not be hurt if Pikachu used thunder. etc etc.
 

Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
697
Location
Pennsylvania
Neat. I like it. I wonder about giving the pikmin immunities. Doing that basically makes one brand of pikmin almost completely immune to certain characters, Like Reds Vs. Captain Falcon. Cap is screwed.
With this bit of information, i think if you remove the immunities, it would make it that much better.

I know you talked about it earlier, but you could easily take advantage of that and really make some Captain Falcon/etc. players mad.
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
With this bit of information, i think if you remove the immunities, it would make it that much better.

I know you talked about it earlier, but you could easily take advantage of that and really make some Captain Falcon/etc. players mad.
The pikmin have immunities to the elements though, it's one of the main aspects of Pikmin. The fact that it provides an immunity against some character's moves just adds to the strategic depth of Olimar, and it'd be completely unfair against a character who's moveset was entirely comprised of that elemental attack but against Captain Falcon or even Pikachu this isn't the case. Infact Pikachu vs yellow pikmin would provide even more elemental immunities but even that is counterbalanced by the fact that the yellow pikmin are the weakest. Saying the immunities would be a bit imbalanced since Captain Falcon can't just wind up a Falcon Punch or Falcon Kick a horde of pikmin charging at him is a bit silly.
 

TheManaLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
I would absolutely devote my life to this game if Captain Olimar was in it. He would be my main even if he's the worst out of a cast of 50, I just wouldn't care.
 

Speedsk8er

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
2,212
Location
Raleigh, NC
The pikmin have immunities to the elements though, it's one of the main aspects of Pikmin. The fact that it provides an immunity against some character's moves just adds to the strategic depth of Olimar, and it'd be completely unfair against a character who's moveset was entirely comprised of that elemental attack but against Captain Falcon or even Pikachu this isn't the case. Infact Pikachu vs yellow pikmin would provide even more elemental immunities but even that is counterbalanced by the fact that the yellow pikmin are the weakest. Saying the immunities would be a bit imbalanced since Captain Falcon can't just wind up a Falcon Punch or Falcon Kick a horde of pikmin charging at him is a bit silly.
Not to mention, if you're gonna bring up CF, his main KO move(the knee) isn't even fire based. No Falcon player just arbitrarily throws out an Fsmash or a Falcon Kick or Falcon Punch.

The same is the case for Pikachu. Pika's Upsmash isn't elemental.


Loved the moveset but don't you think that 15 pikmin is a bit much?
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
Loved the moveset but don't you think that 15 pikmin is a bit much?
Well it's tough deciding on a number. Give him too few and as soon as you start throwing Pikmin to attack Olimar because pretty useless, and the fact that they can get KO'd quite easily would mean that if you threw some to slow an opponent and he managed to kill them off, you'd have none left to fight with and it's pretty much game over. Too many and you could utterly swarm the opponent while maintaining a decent number of pikmin to bolster your A attacks and you have Captain Olimar the Invincible.

I thought 15 was about fair, since it's unlikely that you'll have up to 15 at one time since your opponent would have to have not killed any and let you pluck pikmin for a minimum of 11 seconds (uninterrupted Pick-a-pik time to go from 5 starting Pikmin to 15). Interrupted picking takes even longer due to the first pick taking 2 seconds rather than 1. I have no idea really about the actual figures behind what would make a balanced Olimar since I don't know the strengths and weaknesses of all the Brawl characters obviously, and my experience in creating movesets would be rather limited since this is my first ^^.

How many pikmin would you allow Olimar to have at one time, based on that moveset? I'm guessing it couldn't be far from 12-15.
 

Speedsk8er

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
2,212
Location
Raleigh, NC
Well it's tough deciding on a number. Give him too few and as soon as you start throwing Pikmin to attack Olimar because pretty useless, and the fact that they can get KO'd quite easily would mean that if you threw some to slow an opponent and he managed to kill them off, you'd have none left to fight with and it's pretty much game over. Too many and you could utterly swarm the opponent while maintaining a decent number of pikmin to bolster your A attacks and you have Captain Olimar the Invincible.

I thought 15 was about fair, since it's unlikely that you'll have up to 15 at one time since your opponent would have to have not killed any and let you pluck pikmin for a minimum of 11 seconds (uninterrupted Pick-a-pik time to go from 5 starting Pikmin to 15). Interrupted picking takes even longer due to the first pick taking 2 seconds rather than 1. I have no idea really about the actual figures behind what would make a balanced Olimar since I don't know the strengths and weaknesses of all the Brawl characters obviously, and my experience in creating movesets would be rather limited since this is my first ^^.

How many pikmin would you allow Olimar to have at one time, based on that moveset? I'm guessing it couldn't be far from 12-15.
I was thinking 8 -10. Or better yet, make it proportional to the number of players in the match. so maybe 5-6 for 1v1, 8-10 for 3 players and 12-15 for 4 players.

Dude, we should all SO get into game design.
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
I was thinking 8 -10. Or better yet, make it proportional to the number of players in the match. so maybe 5-6 for 1v1, 8-10 for 3 players and 12-15 for 4 players.

Dude, we should all SO get into game design.
That'd make Olimar incredibly weak 1v1 and would lose all his potential as a possibly good tournament character. Seeming that his smash moves increase with power with large amounts of pikmin, which you'd still have to pick-a-pik, 1v1 he'd be lacking ranged damage (pikmin projectiles) and he'd be lacking decent knockback and power to his attacks especially the moment he started throwing pikmin.

Edit: Cheers Clark, thought the Olimar thread could do with a bit of a bumping after over 2 months of no posts :(. Good to see more people rooting for everyone's favourite inch-high Nintendo guy ^^.
 

ClarkJables

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
1,669
Location
Texas
great moveset vali, now i will put olimar is as one of the characters i want fo brawl. he seems like an incredibly difficult character to master, mainly because he is item based
 

LordRalph_87

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
40
Awesome idea. One of the chararcters that actually is completely different, something I want to see more of in Brawl. A bit more of the abnormal, some magic and less pure fighting would make for different playstyles and possibly a more balanced game, we hope :).

The moveset is well thought out as well and the blue pikmin picture just plain rox.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
Whoever is managing this thread should really update the first post with highlights of the posts that people right, issues people bring up, and other good ideas people have...

People always tend to just list B-moves for a new character which they would like to see, but for someone like Olimar (whom I really really do want in the game), what kinds of A-moves and throws and whatnot should he have. I think these would be a lot harder to come up with, seeing as how Olimar isn't much of a fighter himself by nature.

So, A-moves, air attacks, grab/throws, etc....ideas?? (And, I really think someone should be updating the initial post.)

I did think of one other thing...if the Pikmin are going to be more or less items of Olimars, I think they should run around for a while after being pulled out. And, like in the games, if he abandons them they go stale. BUT, I think other players should be able to pick them up for a certain amount of time to use against Olimar (like Link's bombs for examples...)
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
No-ones managing this thread at the moment since it was dead for almost 3 months before I found it and bumped it and it seems to be on the verge of dying again. If you look a page back I posted my moveset for him complete with A moves, pikmin etc.
 

Icetrash

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
427
I really want Olimar to be in Brawl. If K.Rool isnt in and Olimar is, then Olimar would surely be my main. And I like Valis' movemet, quite interesting.
 

lanky_gunner

Smash Master
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
4,538
Location
The Moon, with the Fierce Deity Mask in hand
NNID
lanky_gunner
3DS FC
3179-6065-1453
Switch FC
SW-6340-2624-9135
I did think of one other thing...if the Pikmin are going to be more or less items of Olimars, I think they should run around for a while after being pulled out. And, like in the games, if he abandons them they go stale. BUT, I think other players should be able to pick them up for a certain amount of time to use against Olimar (like Link's bombs for examples...)
however in the game the pikmin, when stale, attack anything nearby. so if a random fighter comes within the vicinity, the pikmin should just run towards them and attack
 

Caael

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
1,647
Location
Britain, glaring at you **** yanks.
The different Pikmin areas around the stage is a nice idea, but it would take up a lot of programming time, and if they find it goes wrong, then they have to do it all again for every stage. It would be better if it was just random Pikmin.
 

Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
697
Location
Pennsylvania
#1 Olimar fan!

Personally, I don't like the idea of Pikmin jumping on players an wandering around. They should stick around with him very closely.

Olimar should use them for tossing them, an nothing else. To me this would be awesome. I love throwing items, even more then using them! You could Toss a item and then catch it before it lands for future use. I think Olimar should do this, and have the ability to catch them if possible.

Also, other people stealing his pikmin would just put a handicap on him.

My Awesome moveset! vvvvv

STANDARD COMBO

A- Tapping A triggers his awesome punching combo in Pikmin 2.

A TILTS

A>- Captain Olimar stretches out his arm for a long single punch.
Av- Olimar (and he is in a croutch) and he punches real low in the direction you want.
A^- Olimar punches up quickly and swiftly.

SMASH ATTACKS

A>- Olimar winds up a punch and swings forward.
Av- Olimar spins around with his arms wide (i chose this because i don't want to copy Mario so much.)
A^- Pulls back his head, and with his helmet, headbutts his opponent.

ARIELS

Fair- Does a little kick with his left leg if he's facing right and his right leg if he's facing left.
Nair- Brings up his feet, crosses arms, and faces you, and releases his arms and legs.
Bair- Does a little kick behind him.
Upair- Does a small headbutt.
Dair- Bends his knees and fires down his legs, stomping his target.

SPECIAL ATTACKS

B- Grabs closest pikmin, and you can move freely and use A to toss in mid-air and in any direction.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bv- Plucks a pikmin.
Here are the ratios of what you'll pick...
Red: 20% (Red Pikmin deal fire damage.)
Blue: 20% (Deals Water damage.
Yellow: 20% (Goes farther, and deals normal damage, plus can carry Bombs. Weaker then Red and Blue)
White: 15% (Gives a flowser above the vitcim like the Lip Stick item does in melee. But small normal damage, though it can almost be thrown as far as Yellow.
Purple: 10% (Deals massive damage and stuns, but can't be thrown far
Bomb: 15% (can be thrown or given to Yellow to give explosive effect and massive damage.)

If you hold B in for 3 seconds, its a bud, and 5 for a flower, increasing damage.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B^- Pulls out a jetpack and fires up.
B>- Uses the purple spray! He brings back his head then sprays it ahead of him. Opponent is hardened for 3 seconds. Takes 2 seconds to take out (not that if you think about it.)

There we go! :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

Best moveset for him ever!
 

bivunit94

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
364
Location
Vault 101
I seem to be the only one who doesnt like all these ratios of different colored Pikmin and whatnot...

I think it should go down like this:

Olimar ALWAYS has one Red, one Yellow, and one Blue Pikmin right behind him. Always.

B - Bomb Rock The Yellow Pikmin behind Olimar grabs a bomb rock, and runs frantically forward. The bomb rock explodes when the Pikmin runs into an enemy, or after 5 seconds. After the bomb explodes, the Pikmin dissapears and a new one appears behind Olimar.

Bv - Pikmin Throw Olimar picks up a random Pikmin from behind him, and throws it. You can change the trajectory, sort of like Yoshi's Up B. After the Pikmin either hits an enemy or the ground, it dissapears and a new one appears next to Olimar to take it's place.

B^ - Jetpack Olimar uses his jetpack. That simple. The Pikmin hold onto his legs/arms.

B> - Pikmin Lift The three Pikmin carry Olimar (like in Pikmin when you press a certain button, the Pikmin carry Olimar to the Onion). They run quickly with Olimar above their heads in whichever direction the control stick is pressed. The running Pikmin will run throguh enemies, doing damage as they pass, but when they fall off of a ledge, or if the player stops pressing B, OR if Olimar and the Pikmin are hit by an attack, Olimar jumps back out of the Pikmins' arms and onto the ground.

The whole idea that I had was that the Pikmin wouldn't actually be able to be hurt. For example, no one could come up to one of your Pikmin, attack it, and send it flying, but the Pikmin would be grouped so closely to Olimar that they'd almost be like a part of him. The Pikmin do not go anywhere without Olimar, except if it's part of a B move. Plus, I didn't include the White and Purple Pikmin because the other three colors are more original and representative of the series.

So, basically, I was just trying Olimar as simple as possible while sticking with the Smash formula and staying true to the Pikmin series. I did my best. Lemme know what you think. :chuckle:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom