Captain Olimar?

[44Derek]

I never really thought of Captain Olimar as a brawl character, but now that I think about it... his moves would be awesome. Although I can't imagine the UFO tractor beam taunt. XD

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

I seem to be the only one who doesnt like all these ratios of different colored Pikmin and whatnot...

I think it should go down like this:

Olimar ALWAYS has one Red, one Yellow, and one Blue Pikmin right behind him. Always.

B - Bomb Rock The Yellow Pikmin behind Olimar grabs a bomb rock, and runs frantically forward. The bomb rock explodes when the Pikmin runs into an enemy, or after 5 seconds. After the bomb explodes, the Pikmin dissapears and a new one appears behind Olimar.

Bv - Pikmin Throw Olimar picks up a random Pikmin from behind him, and throws it. You can change the trajectory, sort of like Yoshi's Up B. After the Pikmin either hits an enemy or the ground, it dissapears and a new one appears next to Olimar to take it's place.

B^ - Jetpack Olimar uses his jetpack. That simple. The Pikmin hold onto his legs/arms.

B> - Pikmin Lift The three Pikmin carry Olimar (like in Pikmin when you press a certain button, the Pikmin carry Olimar to the Onion). They run quickly with Olimar above their heads in whichever direction the control stick is pressed. The running Pikmin will run throguh enemies, doing damage as they pass, but when they fall off of a ledge, or if the player stops pressing B, OR if Olimar and the Pikmin are hit by an attack, Olimar jumps back out of the Pikmins' arms and onto the ground.

The whole idea that I had was that the Pikmin wouldn't actually be able to be hurt. For example, no one could come up to one of your Pikmin, attack it, and send it flying, but the Pikmin would be grouped so closely to Olimar that they'd almost be like a part of him. The Pikmin do not go anywhere without Olimar, except if it's part of a B move. Plus, I didn't include the White and Purple Pikmin because the other three colors are more original and representative of the series.

So, basically, I was just trying Olimar as simple as possible while sticking with the Smash formula and staying true to the Pikmin series. I did my best. Lemme know what you think.

Interesting... but I like the purple and white pikmin... Oh well...

I like focusing on the throwing aspect... Interesting...

Dotdotdot's focuses on raiding with troops of pikmin....
Mine focuses on throwing the pikmin, plus a little extra stuff...
Yours is focused on... i don't know... originality?

 

[bivunit94]

ORIGINALITY FTW!

Oh yeah and I forgot...

Final Smash:

PIKMIN RAID: A huge swarm of Pikmin covers the stage, giving massive damage to all opponents.

 

[Net17]

Bivunit94, your moveset is awesome. But I don't know if pikmin always wandering around him is such a good idea. Nana is always a pain to have to deal with when playing as the Ice Climbers. I think the idea of having 1-5 pikmin to pluck like Peaches B-down would make him easier to control.

 

[lanky_gunner]

actually that does sound really cool, having one of each pikmin behind him for attacks. but you gotta include white and purple. they got cool stuff falling for them too

 

[Air Jordan]

I think Captain Olimar should be in SSBB. He would make an awesome character.

 

[Zarasai]

olimar........ewwwww

 

[Wiseguy]

olimar........ewwwww

EXPLAIN YOURSELF, HERETIC!!!

Captain Olimar is more worthy for brawl than any other Nintendo character! You'd better seriously consider what you say next, or I may seriously consider making a new "No way in Heck" character list just for Dark Samus on my predictions thread.

Extreme? Maybe, but I don't take disresepect towards Olimar lightly.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I honestly hate it when people just simply enter a support thread and just simply say 'no' and leave. It's counter productive and is really edging on trolling.

At least give some inclination why you are disgusted with the idea of Olimar. Is it that you don't feel the Pikmin franchise deserves any representation in the form of the character? Is that his cutesy look isn't as appealing to you as an obviously badass look is? Or are you simply afraid of originality (would make sense, given your Dark Samus avatar)?

In short, give reasons, or don't bother posting.

 

[Red_Maniac]

ORIGINALITY FTW!

Oh yeah and I forgot...

Final Smash:

PIKMIN RAID: A huge swarm of Pikmin covers the stage, giving massive damage to all opponents.

Oh, I would love to see that...

Massive damage? So you attack their weak point?

 

[Stryks]

Yeah u have to do it in real-time weapon change too
Riiiidddgggee Rrrraaaccceerrr!!

 

[bivunit94]

Here, I updated the moveset.

A - Grabs a White Pikmin and swings it in front of him
AA - Grabs a White Pikmin and swings it in front of him, and then does the same with a Blue Pikmin
AAA - Does the same as above, and then finally swings a Purple Pikmin over his head, into the ground.

^Basically the only Non-B moves I could think of. (Plus, it made use of the Purple and White Pikmin.

Olimar ALWAYS has one Red, one Yellow, one Blue, one White, and one Purple Pikmin right behind him. Always.

B - Bomb Rock The Yellow Pikmin behind Olimar grabs a bomb rock, and runs frantically forward. The bomb rock explodes when the Pikmin runs into an enemy, or after 5 seconds. After the bomb explodes, the Pikmin dissapears and a new one appears behind Olimar.

Bv - Pikmin Throw Olimar picks up a random Pikmin from behind him, and throws it. You can change the trajectory, sort of like Yoshi's Up B. After the Pikmin either hits an enemy or the ground, it dissapears and a new one appears next to Olimar to take it's place.

B^ - Geyser A huge blast of water propels Olimar and all of his Pikmin high into the air. (Like the underground geysers in Pikmin 2)

B> - Pikmin Lift The five Pikmin carry Olimar (like in Pikmin when you press a certain button, the Pikmin carry Olimar to the Onion). They run quickly with Olimar above their heads in whichever direction the control stick is pressed. The running Pikmin will run through enemies, doing damage as they pass, but when they fall off of a ledge, or if the player stops pressing B, OR if Olimar and the Pikmin are hit by an attack, Olimar jumps back out of the Pikmins' arms and onto the ground.

Taunt - Olimar blows his whistle, and the Pikmin make one of their Pikmin-ish noises. (You'll know what I'm talking about if you've played the games.)

FINAL SMASH:
Pikmin Raid - Olimar whistles for a few seconds, and turns around. A huge stampede of Pikmin covers the screen, doing massive damage to every opponent.

Kirby Hat - Kirby has the antennae from Olimar's helmet on top of his head. He also gains the ability to perform Olimar's Bomb Rock move.

That should keep all of you people who like the Purple and White Pikmin happy. Personally, I always liked the three originals better...

EDIT: Changed Up B Move to Geyser, and added the Kirby Hat.

 

[Vali]

Meh I don't like the idea of Pikmin raid, since I'm against the whole final smash = non-dodgeable massive damage/instant KO premise. Olimar doesn't have a jetpack either, it's a methane-tank on his back I believe.

 

[Wiseguy]

Meh I don't like the idea of Pikmin raid, since I'm against the whole final smash = non-dodgeable massive damage/instant KO premise. Olimar doesn't have a jetpack either, it's a methane-tank on his back I believe.

Yeah, the tank on Olimar's back is what allows him to breath on Pikmin Planet's toxic Oxygen atmosphere, it's not a jet pack (though that would be pretty cool...) I like Vali's idea of using Olimar's ship as his triple jump. Another possibility is that they could go the Jigglypuff route and simply sacrifice his triple jump in favor of a different attack.

 

[Vali]

Yeah, the tank on Olimar's back is what allows him to breath on Pikmin Planet's toxic Oxygen atmosphere, it's not a jet pack (though that would be pretty cool...) I like Vali's idea of using Olimar's ship as his triple jump. Another possibility is that they could go the Jigglypuff route and simply sacrifice his triple jump in favor of a different attack.

Yeah but the idea of raining a giant piggybank, inflatable float, massage machine or any of the other parts of the S.S. Dolphin would be awesome beyond words.

Crushing your opponent with an army of fat sumo pikmin? Great.

Nailing the opposition with a yellow bomb rock pikmin as he recovers back to the stage? Fantastic.

Taking your opponent's last stock in the final of a tournament with a massage machine? Priceless.

 

[CasMat]

I would like Olimar to have the red, blue, and yellow Pikmin and then have Louie with the white and purple ones, with a moveset supeficially similar to Olimar's, but that's just me.

Also, the B> move needs to be Bitter Spray!

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

I would like Olimar to have the red, blue, and yellow Pikmin and then have Louie with the white and purple ones, with a moveset supeficially similar to Olimar's, but that's just me.
Also, the B> move needs to be Bitter Spray!

Horrible idea...

 

[Wiseguy]

I would like Olimar to have the red, blue, and yellow Pikmin and then have Louie with the white and purple ones, with a moveset supeficially similar to Olimar's, but that's just me.

Also, the B> move needs to be Bitter Spray!

That's a great idea! Louie would make an awesome Olimar clone.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

That's a great idea! Louie would make an awesome Olimar clone.

You support clones?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Wiseguy]

You support clones?!?!?!?!?!

Dude, I'm the KING of clone supporters. Haven't you ever read my Character Predictions Thread?

 

[Vali]

Horrible idea...

Agreed.

Say, what do you think about the possibility of including Louie as an Olimar clone? I recently put him in my runnerup list, and I was wondering what other Pikmin fans thought.

Louie as an alternative costume? Yes. Louie as an Olimar clone? Waste of production time. Considering that Louie has practically no defining feature to separate him from Olimar I can't see a validility in him being a clone. Due to his body size he could be slightly taller and thinner so faster and weaker than Olimar but honestly when you're the size of a 50p there's not much in it . Considering his side-kick role in a single game, which did have a pretty good in story to which he played a central role, he just doesn't seem that likely. There's a whole plethora of potential clone characters that are more recurring, relevant to their franchises and have a wider fanbase with room to be luigified and can be justified to being more unique. His role was also adeptly filled by monsieur President too, meaning even though his addition opened up new depth and gameplay options, he still wasn't completely necessary.

Giving Louie soley purple and white pikmin would also completely gimp Olimar because they're the rarer and easily better of the pikmin. Red's pale in comparison to the sheer power of a purple **** squad and the whites are not only poisonous but the fastest of all the pikmin, there's a good reason why they should be less common than the 3 original colours.

Bitter spray also is a bit too powerful for a Smash Bros. game, since it completely renders the opponent helpless. In that time you could so easily rack up stacks of pikmin on the opponent or wail into him using some powerful moves. Considering the possibilities of an instant-KO edgeguarding tactic with it as well, it just doesn't fit into Smash Bros. the way it fits into Pikmin. Also if you check my moveset back on page 15 (shameless advertising) it's evident that there's at least 1 way of implementing a lot of Olimar moves which in my opinion work better for Smash without resorting to the sprays.

You support clones?!?!?!?!?!

It's what Wiseguy does best. Apart from his Wall of Pain technique.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Sorry, i didn't here of your.... reputation. Clones are dissapointing, unoriginal, and ugly.

Character movesets should be unique, thus making the roster more flexible, pleasing more fans.

Every character, if you dwelve deep enough, or think hard enough, has a very moveset that is not only good... but completely and satisfactingly a one of a kind.

EDIT: Louie and the president like i stated before should most defiantly be costumes.

 

[CasMat]

Bitter Spray could be similar to Mewtwo's Disable, in that it would be easy to break out of unless you were at high damage. It doesn't have to work exactly like it does in the games...
And I wasn't resorting to sprays because I couldn't think of anything else, I was suggesting that it could work...

I didn't envision Olimars moves the way you did. I was thinking Olimar should always spawn with three Leaf Pikmin (for each color) and Louie the same except with a white and a purple. You see, I was envisioning Louie being a lot different because of the fact that he'd only have two Pikmin at a time versus Olimar's three. Like Olimar has three miniature Marios and Louie has a miniature Ganon and Pichu...... maybe a bad analogy but you get the basic idea..... and of course their movesets being different in the Mario/Luigi way.... only superficially similar...

Comments on your moveset: Reds should not be immune to explosions, or have you ever left them near a Bomb Rock? The blues immunity needs reworking..... I was thinking of making them immune to grabs, because they were slippery. Stupid I know, but it's better than being tresistant to one particualr attack that you may randomly get out of pokeball...

And I don't see your ^B working..... It seems too awkward. The Dolphin just appears out of nowhere? He isn't Game and Watch you know..... that would be like Fox suddenly appearing in an Arwing for his ^B...

Ps: I consider Louie the Co-Star of Pikmin 2

 

[Wiseguy]

Louie as an alternative costume? Yes. Louie as an Olimar clone? Waste of production time. Considering that Louie has practically no defining feature to separate him from Olimar I can't see a validility in him being a clone. Due to his body size he could be slightly taller and thinner so faster and weaker than Olimar but honestly when you're the size of a 50p there's not much in it . Considering his side-kick role in a single game, which did have a pretty good in story to which he played a central role, he just doesn't seem that likely. There's a whole plethora of potential clone characters that are more recurring, relevant to their franchises and have a wider fanbase with room to be luigified and can be justified to being more unique. His role was also adeptly filled by monsieur President too, meaning even though his addition opened up new depth and gameplay options, he still wasn't completely necessary.

Olimar and Louie are just as different as, well, Mario and Luigi. (Is it just me, or do these dynamic duos sound similar?) So it is certainly concievable that we could see Louie as a modified Olimar clone.

The only reason Louie is unlikely is that Pikmin is new to Smash and having two characters right of the bat. Metroid and DKC are STILL waiting for a second representative (though Fire Emblem did get two right off the bat...)

However, it's worth noting that Olimar's moveset will undoubtably be the most time consuming to program - so Sakurai may want to milk it for all it's worth. At any rate, IF a second Pikmin rep gets in it will certainly be Louie as he played a greater role in the story of Pikmin 2 than the president did.

Giving Louie soley purple and white pikmin would also completely gimp Olimar because they're the rarer and easily better of the pikmin. Red's pale in comparison to the sheer power of a purple **** squad and the whites are not only poisonous but the fastest of all the pikmin, there's a good reason why they should be less common than the 3 original colours.

The easy solution is balnce the Pikmin more: making the Red's attack power equally useful to the Purple's abilty to stun enemies.

By the way, was it THIS moveset your talking about Vali?

Captain Olimar

Weight: 2
Size: 2
Strength: 3
Speed: 3
Reach: 2.5

Star of the Pikmin series Olimar is one heck of a fella. In just a few hours he manages to enslave a race of kind-natured flower people, abuse them by throwing them at things to get
his slave labour done and even has them killing the local wildlife in order to recycle their corpses for making more Pikmin (who are born into slavery). That's just Pikmin 1 though, he does it again in Pikmin 2 but this time in order to pay off a big loan his company has racked up. Just to give you an idea, as explained in the introduction, 100 "pokos" is over 1 year's salary and the aim of Pikmin 2 is to clear the remainder of the debt of 10,000 pokos, that's like...over 100 years salary. Talk about badass, Ganondorf can eat his heart out. Being first party and a game that has produced nothing but excellent titles since Pikmin 1 and 2 were 9.0 and 9.2 games on Gamespot and I think even higher on IGN, 3 on Wii is practically a dead cert. To make the games sell even better, what better than to include the protagonist in Brawl to promote the franchise?

Onto the actual moveset though, the majority of the uniqueness of Olimar would be his Pikmin buddies. After all, it's the game's focus and Olimar's primary way of whooping ***. He can actually fight himself, the Pikmin aren't necessary for him to fight (although incredibly necessary to complete the game, obviously) and so he's more than Brawl-worthy.
I should start off by explaining that there are 5 different kind of Pikmin that you can use primarily in Pikmin 2 and 2 unique but not really obtainable Pikmin in 1 and 2. These 5 main ones are Red, Yellow, Blue, White and Purple. Each have different strengths and weaknesses and like in Pikmin they'll be gotten by plucking them from the ground, but Olimar will start with 4 randomly generated Pikmin in order to not completely gimp him.

The Different Pikmin

You can have up to 15 Pikmin at one time. Oh and I better mention that pikmin when in the air are hapless. No, they can't DI, don't be silly. I should also note that any Pikmin currently engaging in hostile acts on an opponent can't be used in Olimar's attacks, even if they are in range.

Basic Pikmin Mechanics: When thrown will attack and follow the closest target, like in Pikmin, however if the closest target is Olimar they will return to his side. Pikmin come in the 3 different stages of evolution: Leaf, Bud and Flower. Leaf is the most basic, a bud will increase their attack speed by 0.2 seconds and runspeed slightly, while a flower will increase their runspeed slightly, attack speed by a further 0.2 seconds and damage 1%. If a Pikmin lands on you, depending on their weight your runspeed and jump height will be lowered slighty. To rid yourself of a Pikmin, waggle the analogue stick <-, ->, <-, ->. While a Pikmin is attached to you it's attack speed increases slightly by 0.3 seconds. Pikmin evolve by being used in a killing move or after every 15 hits.

Reddy!

Attack Speed: 1.5 seconds
Damage: 3% per hit.
Weight: 2.5
Speed: 3
Immunities: Fire/Explosions
Special Abilities: None
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 175% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a red pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 2.5 on 175% damage)

Most basic Pikmin and the first you get, they are also the strongest of the original trio of Yellow, Red and Blue. Immune to fire and so immune to explosions aka. bomb-ombs.

Yellowy!

Attack Speed: 1.2 seconds
Damage: 2%
Weight: 2
Speed: 3
Immunities: Lightning
Special Abilities: None
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 200% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a yellow pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 2 on 200% damage)

The 2nd type of Pikmin you are introduced to in Pikmin 1, Yellow's are the lightest are thus are capable of being thrown the furthest. Immune to lightning attacks such as PK Thunder.

Bluey!

Attack Speed: 1.5 seconds
Damage: 2%
Weight: 3.5
Speed: 3
Immunities: Water
Special Abilities: None
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 125% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a blue pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 3 on 150% damage)

3rd regular type of Pikmin and the last one found in Pikmin 1. Able to withstand water attacks such as Blastoise (if he's back in Brawl ). Slightly heavier than the other 2 and cannot be thrown as far.

Sorry for the terrible, terrible picture. Honestly, there was no good ones of the blue Pikmin >.>

Whitey! (aka. the Albino Pikmin)

Attack Speed: 1.0 seconds
Damage: 1%
Weight: 3
Speed: 5
Immunities: Poison
Special Abilities: 3% chance on hit poison which deals 2% damage every second for 5 seconds. If ingested (a la Kirby or Yoshi's swallow moves), that opponent is automatically poisoned.
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 150% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a white pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 3 on 150% damage)

This one seriously scares the crap out of me. Just don't look into it's eyes! Fastest of all the Pikmin and is partially made of toxins I believe. Immune to poison (since it's body contains it) and so immune to poison mushrooms.

Purpley! (aka. the Sumo Pikmin)

Attack Speed: 2 seconds
Damage: 4%
Weight: 4.5
Speed: 1
Immunities: None
Special Abilities: Apart from being the fattest son'of'a... around, none
Takes knockback proportionate to weight and 75% of Olimar's Damage (so if Olimar was on 100% and you smashed a purple pikmin, he would get knocked back as if he was of weight 5 on 75% damage)

This guy seriously puts on a pound a minute. Even throwing him near an enemy stuns them in Pikmin 2. Obviously has the highest weight and damage at the cost of speed and throwing distance, these guys are heavy brawlers and cause the most slowing and jump height reduction when thrown onto someone. As hard as they are to knock away, they don't have any immunities (except to indigestion).

Good so far eh? We're just getting started!

The Actual Moveset

Finally, onto Olimar's actual moves. That's a lot of information to get down before you can even get onto this stuff, if Sakurai ever finds this moveset and thinks "Wow, that's such an excellent idea!" he'll put it in manual. I hope.

A moves

A - Right fisted punch - 2%, loooooooow knockback
AA - Left fisted punch - 2% loooooooooow knockback
AAA - Olimar's special Rocket Punch(tm)(R)...maybe not...Olimar sticks out both his fists in a double fisted punch of glory - 4% med-low knockback
Dash A - Rush Boots, you slide at 1.5 times your running speed for a short distance, semi-bad wind-down lag though - 8% medium knockback
A -> tilt - Headbutt - 10%, medium knockback
A^ tilt - Rising headbutt - 9% medium knockback
Av - Pik-a-grab, grabs a Pikmin and sweeps out the opponents feet. Knockback, speed and damage vary on the Pikmin sweeping with, ranging from 6%->10%, low -> med-high knockback.

A -> Smash - Swing-a-pik, for every 3 pikmin, Olimar grabs a random pikmin by the flower (so cruel) and swings them forward. Damage is 10% + the damage of each pikmin, knockback and speed again depends on the type of Pikmin and the number. If no pikmin are near, Olimar hits for 10%.

A^ Smash - Soar-a-pik, for every 5 pikmin, Olimar grabs a random pikmin by the flower and swings them in an arc upwards. 10% + pikmin damage, speed and knockback variable. If no pikmin are near, Olimar hits for 10%.

Av Smash - Kik-a-pik, All the pikmin around him kick (both sides, so it wouldn't be 15 pikmin on 1 side kicking) for their base damage with good knockback, if no pikmin are currently following Olimar, he does a 360 floor sweep for 8% with low-med knockback.

Nair - Spins around - 2% each hit with low knockback, last one has medium knockback
Bair - Donkey kick - 5% good knockback
Uair - Somersault kick (he's had zero g training after all) - 6% medium knockback
Dair - Mid-air headbutt (kinda like a reverse of his Uair and instead of kicking them, thwacks them with his helmet) - 5%, meteor
Fair - Your standard kick - 5% medium knockback

B moves

These are probably going to be a bit more indepth.

B - Ye olde "Whistle" - Olimar uses this to command his little buddies. Tapping B will make a short shrill whistle noise which is the go ahead for the pikmin to change the order in which they are standing, meaning you can select which pikmin are closest to you at any given time by taps of B. The default formation is Purple -> White -> Red -> Blue -> Yellow and will change as such so the front goes to the back (ie. W->R->B->Y->P is the next formation). Formations are there to give you greater control over which Pikmin you are throwing and with practice will become second nature, even in the heat of a battle, and like everything would just take practice getting used to managing them.

Holding down B will make all pikmin in 4 body-lengths of Olimar will attempt to make their way back to his side. While holding down B (so after 1/2 -> 3/4 of a second), Olimar is forced to continue to whistle for the remainder of 2 seconds and is unable to move or attack during this time.

B -> - Hurl-a-Pik - Throws a pikmin, how hard depends on how far you tilt the control stick. They follow a set trajectory of the classic arc, and will also go different distances depending on their weight. Holding the control stick full tilt and throwing a purple pikmin will yield roughly the same result as throwing a yellow pikmin at under half tilt.

B^ - Dolphin Rocket - Olimar's rocket is also his recovery move! Upon using this move Olimar is instant in his rocket which moves on a shaky trajectory diagonally upwards. You can also control this a little, such as veer it in a direction. Any surrounding pikmin which are falling relatively near to Olimar are taken up in the Onions around the S.S. Dolphin. Upon moving for 1.5 seconds or so, the dolphin explodes out of habit sending 3 randomly generated parts upwards, diagonally down to the right and diagonally down to the left. These parts are parts which you collect from Olimar's ship in Pikmin 1 and all do 5% damage except the secret safe which does 8% and the Massage Machine and the Space Float (with lower chances of appear) which do a healthy 10%.

Bv - Pick-a-Pik - Probably the most complicated one of all that will take some time to explain. Pick-a-Pik works as sectioned areas of each stage where each section has a 60% common chance and 40% uncommon chance of plucking 2 different kinds of Pikmin. Battlefield for example might be split into 5 different sections, the 3 different platforms and the main floor split in half. On these sections 2 types of Pikmin can be plucked (skilled Olimar's will know which Pikmin to get where on each stage) in those 2 percentages but the rarer Pikmin (white and purple) can only ever occur as 40% uncommon chances, so a purple/white or white/purple combination won't happen, but a red/blue could.

To actually pick the Pikmin, Olimar must hold down and press B at which point it will take 2 seconds to pick a Leaf Pikmin form that area. Subsequent presses of B (while still holding down) will yield Pikmin at 1 second delays. The first 2 Pikmin to be picked will be Leaf Pikmin, the next 3 will be Bud Pikmin and all subsequent Pikmin will be Flower Pikmin, up to the maximum of 15 Pikmin. If you start picking with 0 Pikmin, it's possible to pick up to 10 Flower Pikmin.

Grab moves

A (while holding) - Sly dig - 3%
Forward - Bum's rush, 1-3 Pikmin by Olimar grab the opponent and do the Bum's rush on him : (6-9% high knockback), no Pikmin and Olimar weakly attempts it himself resulting in 3% damage and low knockback

Back - Pik-a-Swing, 1-3 Pikmin grab the opponent's feet and swing him backwards for 5-8% damage and med-high knockback, if no Pikmin, Olimar attempts to do it by himself for 3% damage and low-med knockback.

Down - Pik-a-pounce, Olimar throws the opponent to the floor, 1-6 Pikmin + Olimar jump on one end of the floored opponent for half their totaled base damage + 3% and med-high knockback depending on Pikmin weights. If no Pikmin, Olimar once again foolishly attempts it by himself and doesn't get very far, 3% damage and very low knockback.

Up - Pik-a-Punch, Olimar releases the opponent and uppercuts them at the same time as 1-5 Pikmin. Damage and knockback depends on Pikmin's strength. If no Pikmin, Olimar does it by himself for 3% damage and low knockback.

Final Smash Move

Pikmin Bomb Squad!

The S.S. Dolphin flies in from the top left of the screen over the battlefield and exits again to the top right, pausing only to fire the Nova Blaster down on Olimer's position. Any enemies caught in the dazzling beam are stunned as if their shield was broken. Any yellow pikmin bathed in the light acquire bomb rocks with a minimum of 3. If 3 yellow pikmin aren't present, 3 random pikmin caught in the light will be transformed into yellow bomb pikmin and if 3 pikmin aren't present (if any), then any pikmin caught in the light will be transformed and up to 3 bomb pikmin appear to a maximum of 3 in total. However, if 15 pikmin of that Olimer are present on the battlefield but none caught in the beam, the bomb pikmin will not appear.

Yellow bomb pikmin are able to be thrown as far as regular yellow pikmin and if they land on an opponent after being thrown will automatically explode for 15% damage and high knockback and the pikmin will automatically be star-ko'd. A yellow bomb pikmin will give chase to any opponents they land near like regular pikmin, but instead will self-detonate (star-ko'ing itself) and do 10% damage and med-high knockback. If the opponent attempts to evade the pikmin and succeeds (so the pikmin cannot follow), he will attempt to throw the bomb rock at the opponent with a good degree of precision for 7% damage and med knockback but unfortunately not a star-ko .

Taunt

All the pikmin by Olimar's side line up facing the screen and do the leaf-mexican-wave from the good ending of Pikmin 1, speed varies on how many pikmin are in the line as to always be the same amount of time for the taunt. If no pikmin are by Olimar's side, he looks left, then right (as if looking for the pikmin) and then bows his head (in realisation that he's all alone *tear*).

Kirby Hat

Kirby dons the entire spacesuit with a small (non-spherical) helmet over the top third of his head. Kirby's B move now plucks and throws pikmin. Holding B will pluck the pikmin from the ground at the same rate as Olimar does but Kirby is not adept at throwing the pikmin. Upon tapping B Kirby throws the pikmin horizontally for less distance than Olimar as they spin through the air. Like Olimar's pikmin they well give chase and attack nearby opponents but due to their spinning in the air will bounce off of any enemies they are thrown at for their base damage rather than landing on them.

It's not exactly orthodox, but nothing about an Olimar moveset really could be and the way the controls are set up at the moment (B for whistle, side B to throw pikmin, down B to pluck) at least make sense and such things as the whistle will feel natural for Pikmin players. Thus making one which would also make sense for Kirby's B would be practically impossible.

I think that about wraps it up for the my Olimar moveset. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_slmbAtWe0

^ Awesome Pikmin advert, well worth checking out.

If anyone is unfamiliar with Pikmin and the gameplay behind it, check out this music video of Pikmin clips from Pikmin 2. While it's not exactly a tutorial video or anything you might be able to at least pick up some gameplay mechanics and how **** awesome Pikmin is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRmY9EYmj9U

Just checking

Sorry, i didn't here of your.... reputation. Clones are dissapointing, unoriginal, and ugly..


Character movesets should be unique, thus making the roster more flexible, pleasing more fans.

You may feel that way, but I suspect that the legions of Dr. Mario, Luigi, Young Link, Falco, Ganondorf and Roy fans would beg to differ. Clones, when done properly, can be just as fun and popular as original characters.

Also, clones can be programed into the game in a fraction of the time necessary to program a unique moveset. Let's say that the average clone takes a third of the time to program as a typical original character. That would mean that it could come down to either having 35 original characters total, or 32 original characters and 9 clones - coming to a total of 41 characters (which I suspect most Smashers would prefer).

At any rate, no matter how long the Smash team has to work on Brawl, they will always be able to include a larger roster with a few clones. And having more characters is definitely preferable.

Every character, if you dwelve deep enough, or think hard enough, has a very moveset that is not only good... but completely and satisfactingly a one of a kind.

In a perfect world, yes. But with development time being at a premium, I suspect Sakurai will be forced to prioritize which characters are deserving of the time consuming process of designing a unique moveset. I would personally be willing to sacrifice a unique character if it meant we could have three Luigi-calibur clones in it's place.

EDIT: Louie and the president like i stated before should most defiantly be costumes.

I have to disagree. Olimar, Louie and the President are each separate individuals like Mario, Luigi and Wario. I supose he could have different cloured costumes to match his fellow Pikmin commanders, but as far as changing his appearance I doubt it.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Louie as an alternative costume? Yes. Louie as an Olimar clone? Waste of production time. Considering that Louie has practically no defining feature to separate him from Olimar I can't see a validility in him being a clone. Due to his body size he could be slightly taller and thinner so faster and weaker than Olimar but honestly when you're the size of a 50p there's not much in it . Considering his side-kick role in a single game, which did have a pretty good in story to which he played a central role, he just doesn't seem that likely. There's a whole plethora of potential clone characters that are more recurring, relevant to their franchises and have a wider fanbase with room to be luigified and can be justified to being more unique. His role was also adeptly filled by monsieur President too, meaning even though his addition opened up new depth and gameplay options, he still wasn't completely necessary.

Olimar and Louie are just as different as, well, Mario and Luigi. (Is it just me, or do these dynamic duos sound similar?) So it is certainly concievable that we could see Louie as a modified Olimar clone.

The only reason Louie is unlikely is that Pikmin is new to Smash and having two characters right of the bat. Metroid and DKC are STILL waiting for a second representative (though Fire Emblem did get two right off the bat...)

However, it's worth noting that Olimar's moveset will undoubtably be the most time consuming to program - so Sakurai may want to milk it for all it's worth. At any rate, IF a second Pikmin rep gets in it will certainly be Louie as he played a greater role in the story of Pikmin 2 than the president did.




The easy solution is balnce the Pikmin more: making the Red's attack power equally useful to the Purple's abilty to stun enemies.

By the way, was it THIS moveset your talking about Vali?




Just checking



You may feel that way, but I suspect that the legions of Dr. Mario, Luigi, Young Link, Falco, Ganondorf and Roy fans would beg to differ. Clones, when done properly, can be just as fun and popular as original characters.

Also, clones can be programed into the game in a fraction of the time necessary to program a unique moveset. Let's say that the average clone takes a third of the time to program as a typical original character. That would mean that it could come down to either having 35 original characters total, or 32 original characters and 9 clones - coming to a total of 41 characters (which I suspect most Smashers would prefer).

At any rate, no matter how long the Smash team has to work on Brawl, they will always be able to include a larger roster with a few clones. And having more characters is definitely preferable.



In a perfect world, yes. But with development time being at a premium, I suspect Sakurai will be forced to prioritize which characters are deserving of the time consuming process of designing a unique moveset. I would personally be willing to sacrifice a unique character if it meant we could have three Luigi-calibur clones in it's place.




I have to disagree. Olimar, Louie and the President are each separate individuals like Mario, Luigi and Wario. I supose he could have different cloured costumes to match his fellow Pikmin commanders, but as far as changing his appearance I doubt it.

I think Sakurai should focus on unique characters, and when little time is left, THEN throw in a few clones if possible.

Plus, there is no official release date, and there are guesses of al lthe way to March. They can take as long as they want, as long as it's original, and not the same thing over and over again.

About the response to the costume idea, I meant if they HAD to be included, but i guess i didn't make that clear.

Yes, clones take less time to make, resulting in a larger roster but less original characters. I would prefer 35 original. That's because if your trying out characters, well ,with 9 clones, there would be a LOT of characters that are the same as others.

The only reason anyone would prefer more characters but less original characters i s because they're favorite character is in because of large roster. But, chances are, it'll be a clone and you'll feel distugusted. Like with Ganondorf, did you like what they did with him?

If your logic is correct (for every original character, one original one) then lets say they subtract Ganondorf, Dr. Mario, Falco, Pichu, Roy, and Young Link, they could add two original characters like, Dedede, and Balloon Fighter. Which would you prefer, those two, or those six? Seems a little obvious to me...

But, you and i both think that eachothers opinion is the smash players prefered choice. Yet, you are clone crazy, and I'm not anit-clone, i want them in if they put them in last minute just to throw another guy in... as long as it don't take away from the original characters, which what really matters.

 

[Super Smash Master]

Nobody cares about any people from Pikmin besides Olimar. Anyone who thinks there will be more than one Pikmin character has a little too much faith in the obscure.

 

[lanky_gunner]

agreed. pikmin is a good franchise, but hasn't reached its peak, like the mario or zelda franchises. for now, just olimar. in a later smash, maybe others if neccessary

 

[dynamic_entry]

OLIMAR FTW!

i agree with Wiseguy on clones only a little because without clones ganondorf probably wouldnt be a favourite of anyone other than zelda fans. the fact that he was playable (and pretty good) in melee has helped him cement his place in brawl (with a new moveset) IMO.

i would only approve the use of clones as a way of seeing how people would respond to certain characters without having to take the time to make them completely original.

 

[petre]

If your logic is correct (for every original character, one original one) then lets say they subtract Ganondorf, Dr. Mario, Falco, Pichu, Roy, and Young Link, they could add two original characters like, Dedede, and Balloon Fighter. Which would you prefer, those two, or those six? Seems a little obvious to me...

well, i know id prefer the clones. but in the case of olimar, i have to agree with you, making a clone of an already unique character would only reduce his uniqueness. if you really wanted to have all the different movesets olimar could possibly have, then i guess they could make super smash pikmin. but this is a game to represent ALOT of franchises, therefore why add another from one franchise that only has 2 games to its name when you could rep another franchise with a completely new unique moveset and character?

now, i like most of the clones in melee, but i think it would have been cooler if for every one of those clones they could have had a unique character. but only if it was a 1 for 1 trade. otherwise id rather have more of a selection of characters (at least more like the falcon-ganon and marth-roy clones, the same movesets with different speeds, because those were the most different in my opinion. they played the most differently [that sentence sounds horribly wrong].). if its the last day before brawl, and they dont have time to make a whole new character, but they can take X character, color him purple, double the knockback, damage, and lag of his attacks in that day, then im all for it. however i wouldnt want them to focus on making clones and trying to make them balanced with each other.

 

[Vali]

Bitter Spray could be similar to Mewtwo's Disable, in that it would be easy to break out of unless you were at high damage. It doesn't have to work exactly like it does in the games...
And I wasn't resorting to sprays because I couldn't think of anything else, I was suggesting that it could work...

I was just trying to say that I think there's potential moves that work better ^^. If it worked like Mewtwo's disable, then it'd either copy Mewtwo if he came back and retained it or be like Mewtwo and have what is largely considered a useless/bad move. That's the thing with moves which render your opponent helpless, in that it's really hard to balance and say if by some freaky coincidence my moveset was implemented, freezing your opponent completely for any amount of time might be a huge advantage.

I didn't envision Olimars moves the way you did. I was thinking Olimar should always spawn with three Leaf Pikmin (for each color) and Louie the same except with a white and a purple. You see, I was envisioning Louie being a lot different because of the fact that he'd only have two Pikmin at a time versus Olimar's three. Like Olimar has three miniature Marios and Louie has a miniature Ganon and Pichu...... maybe a bad analogy but you get the basic idea..... and of course their movesets being different in the Mario/Luigi way.... only superficially similar...

Yeah, it's just that I'm not really pro-clone and would prefer it to see the different pikmin worked in in 1 moveset with their unique attributes rather than split into two. Could work for uniqueness though and would help differentiate Olimar from Louie, but I still think most people would pick Louie due to the fact that the whites/purples really kickass compared to the yellows/blues and to a lesser extent reds .

Comments on your moveset: Reds should not be immune to explosions, or have you ever left them near a Bomb Rock? The blues immunity needs reworking..... I was thinking of making them immune to grabs, because they were slippery. Stupid I know, but it's better than being tresistant to one particualr attack that you may randomly get out of pokeball...

Thanks for taking time to read it (it takes a while ). Reds immune to explosions is kinda so that Olimar isn't completely gimped by 1 well-placed bomb-omb (assuming you have any reds) but I completely agree that blues need something more than they have. All I could think of is that they could swim on water stages, but no water stages confirmed so far and there's no garuntee there'll be one, and while making them immune to grabs would be beneficial and quite clever, I don't really see people grabbing the pikmin instead of just smashing them away. The way I tried to balance their lack of immunities was making them heavier than the others while mainting speed, but it isn't really enough. Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless.

And I don't see your ^B working..... It seems too awkward. The Dolphin just appears out of nowhere? He isn't Game and Watch you know..... that would be like Fox suddenly appearing in an Arwing for his ^B...

Or suddenly catching on fire and propelling himself upwards? At the end of the day, Smash Bros. doesn't really strive for realism and if you look too far into things you end up starting to wonder where the hell Link keeps his infinite supply of bombs. Sure it's a bit G+W-esque but at the same time thinking of it in action it'd have style and is the best way to make sure that pikmin hit off an edge even on low % aren't just instantly killed thanks to the Dolphin and Onions. There isn't much of an alternative though, since he never jumps or anything and raining debris on opponents sounds like a fun move in my book.

Olimar and Louie are just as different as, well, Mario and Luigi. (Is it just me, or do these dynamic duos sound similar?) So it is certainly concievable that we could see Louie as a modified Olimar clone.

Sort your quote out, it's screwed up everyone else . Mario + Luigi in games though differ in how they play yet there's no difference in Pikmin between Louie and Olimar.

The only reason Louie is unlikely is that Pikmin is new to Smash and having two characters right of the bat. Metroid and DKC are STILL waiting for a second representative (though Fire Emblem did get two right off the bat...)

Yeah but that was a last minute clone addition. I doubt that we'll be seeing a second in Brawl, but think of the possibilities. Pikmin 3 hits Wii, Olimar and Louie play completely different in their aspects as command leading a huge amount of depth to the puzzles, and then Louie is included in Smash Bros. 4 with a completely different moveset and with similar pikmin aspects but completely revoluntionised from Olimar. We can dream! It's probably more likely to see Pikmin 4 before Smash Bros. 4 too, and I'm betting on Pikmin 3 being announced come July.

However, it's worth noting that Olimar's moveset will undoubtably be the most time consuming to program - so Sakurai may want to milk it for all it's worth. At any rate, IF a second Pikmin rep gets in it will certainly be Louie as he played a greater role in the story of Pikmin 2 than the president did.

Especially if they go with one similar to mine . I just don't see it being as important as other franchises in order to get another representative. Of course if it did, he would be Louie, but that's IF one gets in at all. Some (crazy) people doubt even Olimar's chances.

The easy solution is balnce the Pikmin more: making the Red's attack power equally useful to the Purple's abilty to stun enemies.

Purples are actually stronger than reds I believe. With the added **** squad ability too.

By the way, was it THIS moveset your talking about Vali?
Just checking

Ah the shameless bump <3.

You may feel that way, but I suspect <insert the generic Wiseguy clone rant here>

You should make a proper clone discussion thread, seeming you end up arguing the same points on every thread .

I have to disagree. Olimar, Louie and the President are each separate individuals like Mario, Luigi and Wario. I supose he could have different cloured costumes to match his fellow Pikmin commanders, but as far as changing his appearance I doubt it.[/QUOTE]

Their roles in the game play exactly the same though, which is untrue of your 3 examples. Therefore the same moveset applied to different costumes wouldn't be implying that Olimar = Louie but rather that the moveset would work for all 3 of them. They play different roles in the story yes, they're obviously different people but the moveset could easily be applied generically across the board.

@Petre, I believe that should read "Quote: Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad" rather than me.

 

[JoeLewko]

I think Olimar would make a cool edition, his like final smash could be something involving Pikmin or something.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

I think Olimar would make a cool edition, his like final smash could be something involving Pikmin or something.

Nooooooooooooooooooo... what would give you that idea? Just kidding, welcome to smashboards!


Olimar FTW!

 

[the grim lizard]

Sorry, i didn't here of your.... reputation. Clones are dissapointing, unoriginal, and ugly.

Character movesets should be unique, thus making the roster more flexible, pleasing more fans.

Every character, if you dwelve deep enough, or think hard enough, has a very moveset that is not only good... but completely and satisfactingly a one of a kind.

(Off-topic, but...)

That's a pretty dumb thing to say. You will please more fans by putting in more CHARACTERS. I'm pretty sure the joy of having Ganondorf and Falco in Melee was greater than the "disappointment" of clones. Clones...are almost a "neccessary evil." They allow variation without having to learn a completely new moveset. As McFox once said and I've repeated several times: "every character should have a clone."

To say you don't want clones is pretty dumb. If you say you don't want to see clones like Doc and Pichu, fine. But Falco and Fox played a lot different. Link and Y. Link played a lot different. Ganondorf and Falcon played WAY different. The more the merrier on new movesets, but I'd rather have an extra 10-15 characters than 2-3 new movesets.

 

[Vali]

(Off-topic, but...)

That's a pretty dumb thing to say. You will please more fans by putting in more CHARACTERS. I'm pretty sure the joy of having Ganondorf and Falco in Melee was greater than the "disappointment" of clones. Clones...are almost a "neccessary evil."

Not really, I'd have much prefered to have scrapped Pichu, Roy and Ganondorf and instead replace him with a Ganondorf with a unique moveset.

They allow variation without having to learn a completely new moveset. As McFox once said and I've repeated several times: "every character should have a clone."

That would be terrible. You'd end up with like 30 characters and 30 clones, which wouldn't be half as awesome as 40 unique characters. Sure you'd have more characters but only 3/4 of the movesets and putting in characters just having a cloned moveset is wasting a serious amount of potential for them.

To say you don't want clones is pretty dumb. If you say you don't want to see clones like Doc and Pichu, fine. But Falco and Fox played a lot different. Link and Y. Link played a lot different. Ganondorf and Falcon played WAY different. The more the merrier on new movesets, but I'd rather have an extra 10-15 characters than 2-3 new movesets.

They played differently, but compared to having a new character they hardly played differently at all. It's comparable to playing Fox for months and then switching to Falco is different yes, but hardly a leap like switching to Link, Peach, Bowser etc. 10-15 characters in place of 2-3 movesets is hardly realistic either, it'd be 6-9 characters.

Necessary = no possibility of it not happening. Clones are hardly necessary.

Back on topic, Olimar for Brawl!

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

(Off-topic, but...)

That's a pretty dumb thing to say. You will please more fans by putting in more CHARACTERS. I'm pretty sure the joy of having Ganondorf and Falco in Melee was greater than the "disappointment" of clones. Clones...are almost a "neccessary evil." They allow variation without having to learn a completely new moveset. As McFox once said and I've repeated several times: "every character should have a clone."

To say you don't want clones is pretty dumb. If you say you don't want to see clones like Doc and Pichu, fine. But Falco and Fox played a lot different. Link and Y. Link played a lot different. Ganondorf and Falcon played WAY different. The more the merrier on new movesets, but I'd rather have an extra 10-15 characters than 2-3 new movesets.

So, your saying that everybody would like Ganondorf as a clone then him being original, and same with falco. Your pretty much stating you'd rather see these two characters clones then being original...which is rather...

Young Link, well, he can't have an original moveset... i understand that. So i can't realy say that about him.

What's the problem with learning a new moveset anyways?

Quality over Quantity my friend, quality over quantity.

P.S. Besides, i ddn't say i didn't want them in, i just want them thrown in last second, so they don't get in the way of the production of the unique characters..

 

[Wiseguy]

I think Sakurai should focus on unique characters, and when little time is left, THEN throw in a few clones if possible.

Since putting clones in is inevitable, my guess is that the team will decide beforehand to include a set number of clones so we don't get another last minute travesty like Ganondorf being made a Falcon clone.

Plus, there is no official release date, and there are guesses of al lthe way to March. They can take as long as they want, as long as it's original, and not the same thing over and over again.

Perhaps the game will be delayed until March or later, but they can't work on the the game for as long as they want. They still have to work under deadlines.

About the response to the costume idea, I meant if they HAD to be included, but i guess i didn't make that clear.

No worries. I understand what your point. Your hoping for more unique characters instead of Louie (who is admittedly similar to Olimar). I can appreciate that.

Yes, clones take less time to make, resulting in a larger roster but less original characters. I would prefer 35 original. That's because if your trying out characters, well ,with 9 clones, there would be a LOT of characters that are the same as others.

Not exactly the same. In addition to a different appearance, clones like Young Link and Luigi controll surprisingly different from the characters they are copied from. Also, characters like Doc are plenty popular despite being a complete copy of mario.

The only reason anyone would prefer more characters but less original characters i s because they're favorite character is in because of large roster. But, chances are, it'll be a clone and you'll feel distugusted. Like with Ganondorf, did you like what they did with him?

No, I would have prefered an orginal moveset for Ganondorf - but if your asking whether I would have prefered he not be included at all, the answer is no way. I would much rather that characters I like (like Wolf and Dark Samus) be included as clones than not at all. But this really isn't the place for this discussion. Come on over to "Prepare to be astounded and Amazed: Wiseguy's Brawl Character Predictions" and we'll settle this.

If your logic is correct (for every original character, one original one) then lets say they subtract Ganondorf, Dr. Mario, Falco, Pichu, Roy, and Young Link, they could add two original characters like, Dedede, and Balloon Fighter. Which would you prefer, those two, or those six? Seems a little obvious to me...

What are we talking about? Melee or Brawl?

If it's Melee, than I stand by Sakurai's decision to include a handful of clones instead of one or two more original characaters.

As for Brawl I see Falco, Doc, Pichu and Roy being cut if favor of new clones, Ganondorf a TP makeover and a new moveset and Young Link being Wind Waker-ified and Luigifed.

Dx3 and Balloon Fighter are both excellent choices for Brawl - though I consider Dx3 far more likely.

Again, I apologize for taking us off topic.

But, you and i both think that eachothers opinion is the smash players prefered choice. Yet, you are clone crazy, and I'm not anit-clone, i want them in if they put them in last minute just to throw another guy in... as long as it don't take away from the original characters, which what really matters.

Surprisingly, it seems we don't disagree as much as I thought. Any way, it's alwys good to hear a different point of view. Peace.

Sort your quote out, it's screwed up everyone else . Mario + Luigi in games though differ in how they play yet there's no difference in Pikmin between Louie and Olimar.

It depends on the game, but yeah you're right. If SSB64, at least, Mario and Luigi were nearly identical.

Yeah but that was a last minute clone addition. I doubt that we'll be seeing a second in Brawl, but think of the possibilities. Pikmin 3 hits Wii, Olimar and Louie play completely different in their aspects as command leading a huge amount of depth to the puzzles, and then Louie is included in Smash Bros. 4 with a completely different moveset and with similar pikmin aspects but completely revoluntionised from Olimar. We can dream! It's probably more likely to see Pikmin 4 before Smash Bros. 4 too, and I'm betting on Pikmin 3 being announced come July.

2 more Pikmin games? That would would be beyond awesome! Fine, you win. I can wait until SSB4 for Louie to get his due.

Especially if they go with one similar to mine . I just don't see it being as important as other franchises in order to get another representative. Of course if it did, he would be Louie, but that's IF one gets in at all. Some (crazy) people doubt even Olimar's chances.

Yep, those people are crazy alright. The only characters who might possibly get ahead of Olimar are Diddy and Dx3, but beyond that I can't think of anyone more worthy.

Purples are actually stronger than reds I believe. With the added **** squad ability too.

In the Pikmin games they are, but those sort of things could be altered for Smash. But yeah, I can see how it would be difficult to match the purple's ownage.

You should make a proper clone discussion thread, seeming you end up arguing the same points on every thread .

Yeah, maybe I am starting to sound like a broken record. I'll keep the clone advocacy in my own thread and the "Should Clones Return?" thread hense forth.

Their roles in the game play exactly the same though, which is untrue of your 3 examples. Therefore the same moveset applied to different costumes wouldn't be implying that Olimar = Louie but rather that the moveset would work for all 3 of them. They play different roles in the story yes, they're obviously different people but the moveset could easily be applied generically across the board.

Yeah, they could all be given the same moveset (though 3 Pikmin characters would REALLY be dreaming) but I say neigh to alternate costumes.

 

[the grim lizard]

So, your saying that everybody would like Ganondorf as a clone then him being original, and same with falco. Your pretty much stating you'd rather see these two characters clones then being original...which is rather...

Young Link, well, he can't have an original moveset... i understand that. So i can't realy say that about him.

What's the problem with learning a new moveset anyways?

Quality over Quantity my friend, quality over quantity.

P.S. Besides, i ddn't say i didn't want them in, i just want them thrown in last second, so they don't get in the way of the production of the unique characters..

That was pretty...incoherent...plus you entirely missed what I said.

I said, people would rather have those characters IN THE GAME PERIOD than necessarily having a new moveset. In other words it's like this: either they aren't in the game or they are a clone. For some characters it's like that, and you can get a heck of a lot more characters in the game with clones. What i said was...people would rather have MORE CHARACTERS than MORE MOVESETS. You will satisfy more fans that way...

I have no problem learning a new moveset: I learned every character in Melee to competency. But I'm saying, it does become difficult to go from one character to another. If I'm going from Fox to Falco, though, it's a lot easier. It makes you more versatile as a player. So you could be good with 8 characters instead of 4 or something...

And it's not "quality over quantity." It's both, and there's a balance. You wouldn't satisfy anyone if you only had the 10 already confirmed characters and they all be super awesome. You gotta have more...you gotta have the characters in who deserve to be in. You missed what I said at the end. You could have 10-15 new characters or you could have 2-3 new movesets. That's quite a different in number of characters.

Now, there is a balance between those two, but it's not on the small side. Bottom line: It's ignorant to say you want no clones. Just like characters like Ganondorf and Falco would NOT have gotten in without being clones, there are other characters who won't get into Brawl if not clones. Which, that is fine for a lot of characters, but for some (similar in importance to those two) it is unacceptable to leave them out, and clones are necessary.

Don't be ignorant. A truly good Smash Bros. player knows the importance of clones.

EDIT: And as Wiseguy and I have both said..this is kind of off-topic now. We should stick to Olimar discussions.

 

[Vali]

It's not like a broken record, it's more like a record which is chorus-heavy. I'd prefer to have Louie + El Presidente in as costumes than omitted entirely, even though I'm unsure what the 4th costume would be, assuming there's a 4 costume limit again. Olimar's light would be red, Louie's blue and the President's probably green. When Pikmin 3 is announced at E3 alongside Olimar's announcement in Brawl, I'm hoping there'll be a 4th character of the Pikmin franchise introduced who'd fit the bill nicely as the 4th costume to continue with the whole alternative character thing. That said, I also wouldn't mind the sole return of Louie and instead just having different light colours for Olimar. However just because a 4th character would be introduced wouldn't mean Louie wouldn't return, but maybe we could see even more varying playstyles and abilities unique to the characters and perhaps even a customisable team (Olimar + Louie, Louie + President, Louie + 4th character).

Edit: @Grimlizard

There's a lot of fans that wouldn't be pleased if a character's moveset has nothing to do with their abilities. Including Ridley as a Bowser clone would piss off way more fans than it would please. Quality is definitely a priority over quantity since it wouldn't be hard for the Brawl team to muster together a total of 40 unique characters which is plenty and there's not much point in including more characters for the sake of having more characters.

Another point is I wish you'd stop shooting off the 2-3 = 10-15 thing, it's incredibly inaccurate since a clone is roughly 1/3 of the production time. Thus (as I've already said) it's more like 6-9.

Lastly Ganondorf was included as a clone near the last minute because they were running out of time and were pushing to meet a quota of 26. Sakurai has admitted they didn't know why they were pushing for so many, so Ganondorf probably would've gotten in with a unique moveset instead of being a clone had they not been pushing for quantity and thus your point that he wouldn't have been in is moot. This time around they probably have less work to do and a bigger production team and so there won't be any last minute rushed clone additions or so we can hope.

 

[Wiseguy]

It's not like a broken record, it's more like a record which is chorus-heavy. I'd prefer to have Louie + El Presidente in as costumes than omitted entirely, even though I'm unsure what the 4th costume would be, assuming there's a 4 costume limit again. Olimar's light would be red, Louie's blue and the President's probably green. When Pikmin 3 is announced at E3 alongside Olimar's announcement in Brawl, I'm hoping there'll be a 4th character of the Pikmin franchise introduced who'd fit the bill nicely as the 4th costume to continue with the whole alternative character thing. That said, I also wouldn't mind the sole return of Louie and instead just having different light colours for Olimar. However just because a 4th character would be introduced wouldn't mean Louie wouldn't return, but maybe we could see even more varying playstyles and abilities unique to the characters and perhaps even a customisable team (Olimar + Louie, Louie + President, Louie + 4th character).

Hmmm... now that I think about it, I suppose having Louie and the Prez as costumes wouldn't be so terrible. Fine. You win that one too. (This isn't good. At this rate I'll lose my reputation as the most stuborn guy on Smashboards.) A forth character? How about Olimar's wife or son? Okay, maybe not.

I hope that WHEN Pikmin 3 is announced it will have online multiplayer. I can never find anyone to play Pikmin 2 with.

 

[Vali]

Hmmm... now that I think about it, I suppose having Louie and the Prez as costumes wouldn't be so terrible. Fine. You win that one too. (This isn't good. At this rate I'll lose my reputation as the most stuborn guy on Smashboards.) A forth character? How about Olimar's wife or son? Okay, maybe not.

I hope that WHEN Pikmin 3 is announced it will have online multiplayer. I can never find anyone to play Pikmin 2 with.

Online multiplayer will be a given. It must be a given. Otherwise we blow the dust off the Olimar robot, don the pikmin costumes and march on NOA HQ. I haven't even been able to test out the multiplayer of Pikmin 2 yet ;(. Gonna need to go rope one of my mates into a pikmin frenzy and get some practice in teamplay for P3.

4th character? Maybe a miniature Man-at-Legs .