Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010

[Darky-Sama]

But when you're looking at the Ike match-up there isn't really much more to it. Most of his options are either he hits you and knocks you away, or he doesn't hit you at all. Most of his move set has extremely high knockback that eliminates any potential tech-chasing abilities. His jab and grab are two of the only exceptions once you pass 30-40%.


Shielding against Ike's jab isn't too bad. His jab is really disjointed though, so grabbing him out of it is pretty difficult. His jab cancel -> grab takes a few more frames than our shield grab does, so we should be able to pull one off after the hitbox of his jab {either first or second} hits us.

Just saying, doing a shield out of dash in this match-up REALLY helps.

EDIT: I've been using Ftilt out of shield more competitively now as well.

 

[Psychoace]

Sheilding and grabbing might not work more than a couple times.
If we had more than 1 option against ikes jab, that can each be taken care of differently then i would say that the match up is in our favor.

How fast does jab eat sheild, and by how much does it knock us back by?

But when you're looking at the Ike match-up there isn't really much more to it. Most of his options are either he hits you and knocks you away, or he doesn't hit you at all. Most of his move set has extremely high knockback that eliminates any potential tech-chasing abilities. His jab and grab are two of the only exceptions once you pass 30-40%.


Shielding against Ike's jab isn't too bad. His jab is really disjointed though, so grabbing him out of it is pretty difficult. His jab cancel -> grab takes a few more frames than our shield grab does, so we should be able to pull one off after the hitbox of his jab {either first or second} hits us.

Just saying, doing a shield out of dash in this match-up REALLY helps.

EDIT: I've been using Ftilt out of shield more competitively now as well.

Yeah if he spaces that third jab it'll push us out of range to do anything most of the time. I find shield grabbing his jabs to be rather difficult but not impossible

 

[Darxmarth23]

im really starting to like the idea of grabbing him

now, if we push jab range
then it would be safe to gab him after the second hit
and after the third hit
the first hit to second hit is too fast

i don't like him grabbing us back, which will probably happen as retaliation the second time we try this in the match.

in order to use Sheildgrab we need to be CLEAN.

its hard, but it can happen

other than that, i think we can take care of him

...

Call me crazy
i haven't tested it
but if we run into him fast enough
and right when he's about to start his jab
we SH and airdodge
skip though the jab
and land behind him

i highly doubt it would work
i think we'd get punished in some bum ***
but i wanna try it

 

[Willz]

i cba to read your post but i know that **** will work cuz ur mutha****in Darx YEEEE BOYYYEEEE

falcon vs ike is ikes favour IMO cuz ike is gay LOL i dunno

 

[Ussi]

Also, Ike's jab IS NOT disjointed. You can hit Ike's fist and hurt/grab him if your attack does more than 11% or is a disjoint (utilt)

My input: Ike's favor 60:40 cause of spaced nairs(perhaps fairs too) and jabs. Up Bing aether only works on those who don't tech.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Call me crazy
i haven't tested it
but if we run into him fast enough
and right when he's about to start his jab
we SH and airdodge
skip though the jab
and land behind him

i highly doubt it would work
i think we'd get punished in some bum ***
but i wanna try it

I'm not sure how effective it would be, but it's worth trying it out. Ike could probably buffer a turn around jab toward us, but we might be able to buffer a dash -> grab or up tilt if we space ourselves behind him far enough. Since a grab would take priority if it connects, it's probably the best bet out of anything that's 'guaranteed'.

Also, Ike's jab IS NOT disjointed. You can hit Ike's fist and hurt/grab him if your attack does more than 11% or is a disjoint (utilt)

My input: Ike's favor 60:40 cause of spaced nairs(perhaps fairs too) and jabs. Up Bing aether only works on those who don't tech.

It's more along the lines of his second jab that we're worried about. It seems to have the ability to hit us out of our aerial approaches as well due to it's range.

 

[Player-3]

ussi you can up b him outwards away form the stage and repeat

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ally, you should learn to Gentleman cancel.

Falcon, not Ike, is the one who should be Jabbing the other to death.

It's also easy to shieldgrab Ike out of all three Jabs if you know it's coming. Since he leans forward, you don't have to actually be that close to grab him, since you can just grab his fist or leg. Jab3 you can Up-B out of shield.

If he does two Jabs on your shield, you should be consistently shieldgrabbing that on reaction. I mean it will be a bit of a guessing game to shieldgrab the first, but honestly this is why Falcon should win the matchup. His reward for getting grabs in general is much better than Ike's.

Sheilding and grabbing might not work more than a couple times.
If we had more than 1 option against ikes jab, that can each be taken care of differently then i would say that the match up is in our favor.

But Ike has like only one option up close. You have at least 2 options that can beat it. You can outspace it with a tilt, or you can shieldgrab it.

How fast does jab eat sheild, and by how much does it knock us back by?

Shield has 70 base health, and in 99% of cases shield damage = damage on hit (exceptions are obviously stuff like Marth's shield breaker and DK's headbutt). Ike's Jab does 4, 5, 7 damage. I forget what the idle state depletion rate is though.

 

[Ussi]

ussi you can up b him outwards away form the stage and repeat

Ike can tip aether for the apex to be on level with the stage but then its prone to being edge hogged. Just Ike CAN avoid falcon trying to Up B on stage, if you are gonna do it off stage that is waaay more risker since Ike's aether does his in front of him.

But Ike has like only one option up close. You have at least 2 options that can beat it. You can outspace it with a tilt, or you can shieldgrab it.

One, do you expect Ikes to just jab a SHIELD???? He can also GRAB -.- which can lead to a f/bthrow > dash attack which can throw falcon off stage. Jab comes out at frame 3, so that's not something you can REACT to, you have to PREDICT it. And you can predict WRONG and get grabbed out of your shield.

It's more along the lines of his second jab that we're worried about. It seems to have the ability to hit us out of our aerial approaches as well due to it's range.

Ah i see, 2nd jab does have deception range but its more of a low kick so I don't see it hitting aerials... utilt, usmash (counters AD), and aether are better for stopping aerial attacks.

 

[A2ZOMG]

One, do you expect Ikes to just jab a SHIELD???? He can also GRAB -.- which can lead to a f/bthrow > dash attack which can throw falcon off stage. Jab comes out at frame 3, so that's not something you can REACT to, you have to PREDICT it. And you can predict WRONG and get grabbed out of your shield.

His standing Grab range sucks, and his dashgrab isn't very good either, so yes, I do expect him to Jab in 95% of situations when you get close to him since he also gets punished if I dodge his grab. I should also explain again that Falcon's tilts are better than Ike's and can definitely be used to outspace Ike's Jabs.

And as I stated earlier, Falcon's reward on grabs is much better than Ike's. When Ike grabs you, you take damage. When Falcon grabs you, you take more damage and eventually get killed. Simple as that.

 

[Ussi]

His standing Grab range sucks, and his dashgrab isn't very good either, so yes, I do expect him to Jab in 95% of situations when you get close to him since he also gets punished if I dodge his grab. I should also explain again that Falcon's tilts are better than Ike's and can definitely be used to outspace Ike's Jabs.

And as I stated earlier, Falcon's reward on grabs is much better than Ike's. When Ike grabs you, you take damage. When Falcon grabs you, you take more damage and eventually get killed. Simple as that.

Only time i see Falcon eventually getting a kill off a grab is off the edge. 2ndly, Ike's fair/nair > Falcon's tilts. Lol you think Ike would use hits tilts regularly? If you are gonna try to counter the air, how does Falcon propose to counter a retreating fair?

 

[A user name]

What of Falcon's moves have less priority than Ike's jab?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Only time i see Falcon eventually getting a kill off a grab is off the edge. 2ndly, Ike's fair/nair > Falcon's tilts. Lol you think Ike would use hits tilts regularly? If you are gonna try to counter the air, how does Falcon propose to counter a retreating fair?

So you're suggesting that Falcon is going to whiff a tilt just so you can F-air/N-air him when either way Falcon can stay safe by reacting to Ike at midrange. I find that very amusing.

Powershield -> dashgrab both. Falcon's tilts still have more range than Ike's N-air anyway so it's still possible for him to outspace that, if difficult.

Falcon's B-air and U-air both kill when fresh or at high percents and frametrap airdodges, but Falcon does have a good chance of refreshing those through grab pummel throw usage.

 

[†Slader7†]

looks like the Ike boards are leaning into making this MU 40:60
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271374
their first MU thread didn't include Falcon
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192160

 

[Darky-Sama]

That really isn't a good basis for the match-up though. Most of their other ratios seem somewhat levied as well, so I can't exactly say I agree with 'em.


Ike's jab is still our main concern. What else do we have against it? When it comes to our aerials, I think Bair might be our best option.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Oos Falcon dive is risky
and its kinda slow

even though u-tilt is an option, i would say that i don't like it just because both characters are stationary. you have to postition yourself so you won't get hit, but you WILL hit ike. and if you are too late then third hit jab takes care of you.

Do you think that if we airdodge fast enough, we could barely pull out a b-air if we pass ike?

 

[Darky-Sama]

I wouldn't risk using Falcon Dive at all in this match-up unless:
A.) You're punishing him offstage.
or
B.) You're following up a FH Nair.

If you mess up a Falcon Dive, Ike can punish you with a smash attack easily. Ike doesn't have that much distance to cover after you use it, and he can just do a dash toward where you're landing and up smash, if all else.


Air dodge -> Bair might work, but Falcon's air dodge frames don't leave much time to use an aerial if you short hop since he's a fastfaller. Unless you're talking about doing a full hop, which in that case, would be pretty easy for Ike to read and punish.

Air dodge -> Fastfall -> Buffered SH Bair ;; could probably work though.

 

[Ussi]

Ike's nair outlasts every single ADs (33 frames of a hitbox) Ike eats anyone trying to AD through him

 

[†Slader7†]

Yeah Ike's jab and nair saves him from Falcon ownage.

imo, raptor boost is a good punisher although Ike can always counter with a nair

 

[lordhelmet]

Yeah Ike's jab and nair saves him from Falcon ownage.

imo, raptor boost is a good punisher although Ike can always counter with a nair

I agree with Slader on this one. RB puts Ike in a really, really bad spot.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Raptor Boost is pretty good, but it leaves Falcon in a position to be punished if we miss. Ike can spot dodge if he's expecting it, although he has to time it perfectly or part of the Raptor Boost hitbox will set the attack off.

But we certainly don't want to be punished by Ike. Large risk using that. But it's still really good.

 

[Ussi]

I'll say this, whenever I fight an Ike as a speed character I always go for a dash grab.. So try to exploit Ike by messing his spacing up. Just be careful cause if he FFs his fair perfectly or uses Nair, dashing in for a grab probably we get you jabbed. (Though i do this as Pikachu, soo dunno Falcon does run faster...)

I'll just say this:

Perfectly FF'd fair has 22 frames of lag, and nair has 13 frames of lag... So if you can get the grab in before frame 25/16 then go for the grab guaranteed

(of course if Nair's hitbox is behind Ike and you're in front go for the grab anyways)

 

[san.]

The matchup resolves getting around Ike's nairs and jabs. Ike knows that falcon is a pretty fast character, and would only use fair sparingly. Getting quick attacks in is your best bet, because the Ike is not obliged to go anywhere near you in this matchup.

I think it's not so good for falcon because the amount of caution falcon needs when dealing with Ike at multiple ranges, some that directly conflicts with his strengths, such as jab and many of the ways Falcon would like to approach. I see falcon getting jabbed more than Ike in this MU because of its nice range ahead of him as well as falcon's lack of moves that may beat it without too much effort except for uptilt.

I think it's definitely manageable for falcon, but there are noticeable disadvantages at multiple points that could just make the match frustrating for him IMO.

 

[Darky-Sama]

So basically it's like we said. It's a pretty deadset even match-up, but Ike just has a bit of an edge due to his Nair and Jabs. Which we can work around, but they still pose the largest match-up levying factor.

Anyone opposed to setting the ratio as 45:55 ?

 

[AllyKnight]

I should learn the gentlemen stuff ur right =.= im dumb

 

[PZ]

I should learn the gentlemen stuff ur right =.= im dumb

@Ally:Hold A button until you get ther 3rd hit aka gentlmen then tap down then repeat. Same as jab canceling just need timing.

Ok the mu looks a little in ike's favor but I have few thing to say.

Uthrow and RB **** ike. When under him we can uair the mess out of him for a good amount of damage. Gentlemen combo aka jab<jab<gentlemen<up b or continue. Fthrow puesudo cg is great on ike. I think #34 combo would do great against ike. Ike's disjointed hit boxs and jab shenanigan's(which= ours but his is faster i think) will be hard to get by but its possible.. Nair is a good move against ike. Ftilt is totally useless in this mu. Our utilt is very spammable so it wont be that bad in this mu. Dtilt is a great move since it puts ike right in the air. Edgeguard= win thanks to his suckie up b. Watch out for ike's bair, nair, and fair(at times). His bair is a great kill move and is fast. His nair hard to get by and combos I think. His fair has ALOT OF RANGE.His throws setup easy mindgames. His dtilt spikes so be careful when recovering. His ftilt has good range and is powerful. Smash attacks just whatever you do dont roll or spot dodge. Utilt stays there quite a while so know how long its active hitbox is. His jab can lead into many things like ours.

EDIT: Ally try it with ike then falcon. Also I say what I think is 50-50.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Gentlemen Canceling isn't something worth abusing in this match-up. If the Ike expects it, they'll most likely SDI away and make you eat their t!ts a tilt. Which can be pretty hazardous, even at lower percents. I'm not entirely sure if Ike's attacks come out quick enough to punish us for it though. We could probably power shield it or something.

Someone should look into it.

 

[PZ]

Gentlemen Canceling isn't something worth abusing in this match-up. If the Ike expects it, they'll most likely SDI away and make you eat their t!ts a tilt. Which can be pretty hazardous, even at lower percents. I'm not entirely sure if Ike's attacks come out quick enough to punish us for it though. We could probably power shield it or something.

Someone should look into it.

Ike's attacks dont cme out quick but they are disjointed. His jab comes out fast thoguh we know that. PS is very possible.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yeah, Ike's attacks have horrible start-up time. I'm a bit worried that up tilt could punish the Gentlemen though. If he can't, then we should be abusing the living **** out of it in this match-up.

Even though Ike's jabs > Falcon's jabs, it's not really a bad option I guess.

 

[PZ]

Yeah, Ike's attacks have horrible start-up time. I'm a bit worried that up tilt could punish the Gentlemen though. If he can't, then we should be abusing the living **** out of it in this match-up.

Even though Ike's jabs > Falcon's jabs, it's not really a bad option I guess.

The gentlemen is a great to unstale your uair after spamming it on ike in the air.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Very true.

This match-up relies a lot on spacing. Falcon will need to be abusing {and staling} majority of his disjointed // ranged attacks. If Ike is really as defenseless against the Gentlemen as it seems, than I think we just found a nice strategy.

Generally safe damage wracking.
Ability to un-stale other moves.
A good way to force Ike into a predictable reaction.

It's a win-win-win situation.

 

[PZ]

Very true.

This match-up relies a lot on spacing. Falcon will need to be abusing {and staling} majority of his disjointed // ranged attacks. If Ike is really as defenseless against the Gentlemen as it seems, than I think we just found a nice strategy.

Generally safe damage wracking.
Ability to un-stale other moves.
A good way to force Ike into a predictable reaction.

It's a win-win-win situation.

Lets remeber ike also has his same type of gentlemen.

 

[:mad:]

Just letting you know Darky, I edited out the Zero Suit picture because it was a bit too suggestive. I replaced it with an in-game picture for now and you're free to change it whenever.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ike's nair outlasts every single ADs (33 frames of a hitbox) Ike eats anyone trying to AD through him

You're completely wrong.

Hit on: 15-32 (17 active frames)
IASA (Air): 76

That's a terrible move for outlasting airdodges (average airdodge has about...27 active frames) when chances are they can just react to the startup. If you're eating airdodges with N-air, your opponent sucks, and for that matter, you picked a horrible option for that anyway.

U-air's frames are about the same, and if you're punishing a landing, Jabbing, Grabbing, and to a lesser extent U-tilt and U-smash are better options.

 

[Ussi]

ehh, whoops mixing up my numbers. nair is still effectively used to counter ADs (along with uair and usmash) it is NOT terrible at it, just not as godly as I made it out to be.

 

[PZ]

His uair really does suck up AD I think but you can get by by not being over him.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Just letting you know Darky, I edited out the Zero Suit picture because it was a bit too suggestive. I replaced it with an in-game picture for now and you're free to change it whenever.

No problem. Out of all the pictures I had saved, that was probably the least suggestive. But I'll find something more suitable and upload it when I get the chance.


Yeah, Ike's jab is going to be a problem regardless. But if he SDIs out of it, he'll most likely just clash with our jab, unless he presses his jab button 2-3 times immediately so the last two parts of the attack come out.

I think the final hit of his jab has more priority than the first two, could be wrong. I'm not an Ike specialist. :/

 

[PZ]

No problem. Out of all the pictures I had saved, that was probably the least suggestive. But I'll find something more suitable and upload it when I get the chance.


Yeah, Ike's jab is going to be a problem regardless. But if he SDIs out of it, he'll most likely just clash with our jab, unless he presses his jab button 2-3 times immediately so the last two parts of the attack come out.

I think the final hit of his jab has more priority than the first two, could be wrong. I'm not an Ike specialist. :/

Im thinking when we gentlemen combo it does more damage then ike jab canceling where he jabs and continues to jab like the that part on Admiration.

 

[Darxmarth23]

ike can't do much to keep him from getting pushed back from us

gentleman and all that jab **** and then grab to f-throw

to stay away from his jab just airdodge behind him and pivot grab
or sheild and grab

im thinking this as 45-55 now or maybe even 50-50

 

[A2ZOMG]

His uair really does suck up AD I think but you can get by by not being over him.

Ike is singlehandedly the worst character in the game at punishing upwards.

He can't really threaten you at all when you're above him. If he's facing away from you, you know he will B-air, which fails a lot when dodged. Everything else you can airdodge, jump away from, or B reverse out of the way ON REACTION and he's too slow to follow up afterwards.

It's just a matter of avoiding falling into bad habits, since everything he has to hit above him is slow.

Hence when Ike grabs you, he just tacks on chip damage, while when Falcon grabs someone, he has a combo opportunity.