Captain Falcon

[Deleted member]

I just wanted to throw out this out there that this should have totally been his final smash

The absurdity of it being visible from beyond the galaxy is my favorite part.

Watch the whole scene:

Falcon did not cause the explosion, it was going to happen anyway because the explosion is from the destruction of B. Shadow's Dark Reactor. The "Falcon Punch" was merely Falcon's way to keep B. Shadow from escaping said explosion and sacrificing himself in the process.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Melee Falcon can def pivot grab. You pivot and grab on the same frame because the pivot means your char registers as standing, and grabbing is possible while standing. It may not be different on account of literally being a standing grab, but it is possible and does exist.

Also, Falcon Kick def had its uses in Melee. Uthrow -> Falcon Kick on non-floaties is hilarious (the startup knocks them offstage), and if they DI wrong you can sometimes land a knee after it or another Falcon Kick for an equally hilarious kill. Also, ledge-hopped Falcon Kick out-prioritizes a lot of recoveries, such as FireFox/Falco and Falcon/Ganon dive (you need to connect with his ass, only spot where the move is disjointed).

I want an easier way to do tilts vs smashes, mainly because pivot upward slanted ftilt is really good for punishing poorly spaced approaches but pivot upward slanted fsmash is risky even if you pull it off optimally. I'm a fairly technical player, I can space well and I can pivot pretty much anything on command (a staple of my play is to pivot jump -> fading nair), but that pivot ftilt still eludes me. They could make A-button ground attacks be all tilts and C-stick (or equivalent) would all be smashes the way they are know.

I want his Melee aerial combo/pressure game back. I don't care if it's a hitbox issue, hitstun issue, or if the entire engine needs to be scrapped, I just want it back. I need the Melee knee or better, nothing else will satisfy. His stomp could use some work, though, maybe making the nipple spike easier to land. They can nerf the knockback on the stomp for all I care, competent players will meteor cancel out of it regardless.

I want a sex kick for Falcon again. Melee nair is just plain bad due to the large time gap between the first and second hits, crouch-canceled moves can break through. Alternatively, changing the engine to make nair more feasible on shield and CC will work too. Aside from that, the bair is the strongest candidate for a sex "kick," just weaken it and have him stick out his fist and pull it back 20~30 frames later.

I want Falcon Kick to reset dj again, no reason for them to take that out in Brawl. However, Falcon Pawnch recovery would be fun substitute instead.

I want some sort of ground game with him. Pivot ftilts will help this, but other options would be really nice, like dashdancing or a viable grab game.

All in all, if they re-work Falcon to give him more options (even if they aren't super amazing) while maintaining the spirit of a fast, knee-happy, high-risk / high-reward char, I will be ok with that. They can nerf him in certain ways, such as lowering the knockback of his tilts and/or uair, they don't need to make him overpowered, but I need that spirit, that feeling of being free to roam at will, to be fast and in their face and actually be a THREAT when in that position. As long as I get that, I think I will be able to make the transition (I transitioned to Viewtiful Joe just fine, for example, although Joe is much slower w/o mach speed).

I also want people to ignore SmashChu, he's just a troll, plain and simple.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I also want people to ignore SmashChu, he's just a troll, plain and simple.

Smashchu is not a troll. He believes what he says and he does so relatively nicely.

I want Falcon to return to his former glory as well but it sounds like you just want Melee 2.0.

Just go play Melee.

 

[FalKoopa]

SmashChu isn't a troll. Sometimes I feel people are just jumping into the bandwagon. There are points on which I disagree with him, but he's a nice guy.

To be on topic, Captain Falcon needs to be buffed to a lightning bruiser like he is in Melee.

 

[SmashChu]

Smashchu is not a troll. He believes what he says and he does so relatively nicely.

I want Falcon to return to his former glory as well but it sounds like you just want Melee 2.0.

Just go play Melee.

SmashChu isn't a troll. Sometimes I feel people are just jumping into the bandwagon. There are points on which I disagree with him, but he's a nice guy.

To be on topic, Captain Falcon needs to be buffed to a lightning bruiser like he is in Melee.

Thanks guys

Again, I do think Falcon can use a buff, but I don't think he's as weak as people say he is. I agree with FallKoopa in that he should be a lighting bruiser. I'm not looking at how competitive Smash players, if that helps.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I want Falcon to return to his former glory as well but it sounds like you just want Melee 2.0.

Just go play Melee.

That's absolutely correct. Thanks so much for actually reading what I said, I'm touched. All those "changes" and "improvements" and "suggestions" are just standard Melee features that I never knew existed.

I now see how foolish I was, demanding that the A button be exclusively for tilts and that no Smash moves could be done with A, because that feature already exists in Melee. C-stick for Smashes, A-button for tilts. Never will the A-button result in an accidental Smash, that's a Brawl-exclusive feature that wasn't even in 64, due to how much I clearly hate barlw.

I'm really going to have to start recovering with Falcon Pawnches in Melee now, that is totally a Melee recovery option and will never result in falling to my death.

I can't believe I never realized that Falcon has a sex kick in Melee. No idea what that rant about Melee nair being "bad" because of a "space" between the "two hits" was all about, it's def just a sex kick. I need to tell Foxes and Falcos that shining me in the middle of my nair is illegal, and that I'll call Nintendo on them for doing it.

Being able to adjust to Viewtiful Joe mechanics and having enough fun to play and beat it 3~4 times in the first week I got it (few months ago, Christmas present) just proves how unable I am to adjust and have fun with different mechanics. I really should just go play Melee for all these great Melee-exclusive features.

Lovin' those double-standards of yours. Everyone gets their voice heard ... unless, of course, they're part of the Melee community, in which case their voices can be disregarded. Everyone's input is valuable ... unless, of course, they're part of the Melee community, in which case their input can be disqualified. We don't need their input or their voices to make everyone's voice heard or everyone's input valuable. They don't count. BUT the final result, gained from all the input and all the voices of all the communities except the Melee community, will be representative of all the communities even though the Melee community was denied its chance to be represented.









This is a thread asking people what they want Falcon to be like in Smash 4. What gives you the right to tell me to get off the thread and play Melee just because what I want sounds too much like Melee to you?

@SmashChu: ... Every thread I've seen you on, you post like a troll. You fish for responses by posting repetitive and outrageous statements that offer no coherent arguments or rebuttals. Now, I know plenty of trolls who are nice people irl. But if you don't want people to see you as a troll, best advice I can give is to not act like one.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's absolutely correct. Thanks so much for actually reading what I said, I'm touched. All those "changes" and "improvements" and "suggestions" are just standard Melee features that I never knew existed.

I now see how foolish I was, demanding that the A button be exclusively for tilts and that no Smash moves could be done with A, because that feature already exists in Melee. C-stick for Smashes, A-button for tilts. Never will the A-button result in an accidental Smash, that's a Brawl-exclusive feature that wasn't even in 64, due to how much I clearly hate barlw.

I'm really going to have to start recovering with Falcon Pawnches in Melee now, that is totally a Melee recovery option and will never result in falling to my death.

I can't believe I never realized that Falcon has a sex kick in Melee. No idea what that rant about Melee nair being "bad" because of a "space" between the "two hits" was all about, it's def just a sex kick. I need to tell Foxes and Falcos that shining me in the middle of my nair is illegal, and that I'll call Nintendo on them for doing it.

Being able to adjust to Viewtiful Joe mechanics and having enough fun to play and beat it 3~4 times in the first week I got it (few months ago, Christmas present) just proves how unable I am to adjust and have fun with different mechanics. I really should just go play Melee for all these great Melee-exclusive features.

Lovin' those double-standards of yours. Everyone gets their voice heard ... unless, of course, they're part of the Melee community, in which case their voices can be disregarded. Everyone's input is valuable ... unless, of course, they're part of the Melee community, in which case their input can be disqualified. We don't need their input or their voices to make everyone's voice heard or everyone's input valuable. They don't count. BUT the final result, gained from all the input and all the voices of all the communities except the Melee community, will be representative of all the communities even though the Melee community was denied its chance to be represented.

This is a thread asking people what they want Falcon to be like in Smash 4. What gives you the right to tell me to get off the thread and play Melee just because what I want sounds too much like Melee to you?

@SmashChu: ... Every thread I've seen you on, you post like a troll. You fish for responses by posting repetitive and outrageous statements that offer no coherent arguments or rebuttals. Now, I know plenty of trolls who are nice people irl. But if you don't want people to see you as a troll, best advice I can give is to not act like one.

Didn't mean to start something like this....

Here we go!

Smashchu isn't a troll. He honestly believes what he's saying. Stop calling him one.

I'M more a troll than him. *Hint Hint* *Wink Wink* *Nudge Nudge*

I apologize for the monopolizing of trollys but I don't like it when people attack Smashchu. He's had enough. So don't accuse my friends of stuff when they are innocent. That is a pet peeve of mine.

Now to SERIOUSLY reply to your post, the Falcon Punch recovery is interesting and the aerial return sounds wonderful. Kind of lost me on the easier way to perform tilts and smashes though.

 

[SmashChu]

@SmashChu: ... Every thread I've seen you on, you post like a troll. You fish for responses by posting repetitive and outrageous statements that offer no coherent arguments or rebuttals. Now, I know plenty of trolls who are nice people irl. But if you don't want people to see you as a troll, best advice I can give is to not act like one.

That's simply not true. One thing with this forum (and all competitive gaming) is that it has a sort of hivemind. They beleive compeittive gaminfg is a big thing. They believe Sakurai is an idiot because he didn't make Brawl for them. Basically, you can't say the opposite opinion. When I come in and not how Smash shouldn't be made for competitive players and how it's success has been by being a more open game, people get upset. Some try to argue while others get very upset. People put a lot of heart into this and want to believe it is more than what it actually is. Smash is a video game, but they see it as something more. When I come in as a voice of reason, people get upset.

I've been labeled a troll because I say what people don't want to hear.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

[...] I've been labeled a troll because I say what people don't want to hear.

No, you are labelled a troll because your opinion does not conform to the facts, yet you insist on repeating it over and over with no data or evidence to back it up, in the face of plenty of data and evidence proving you wrong. You perpetually claim that "competitive" and "casual" can never coexist, because for some secret reason that only you are party to they are polar opposites that somehow cancel each other out. Even if we fallaciously exclude Melee, the #1 best-selling GC game OF ALL TIME with 7.1 million copies sold, there's plenty of recent or relatively recent games with competitive potential that ALSO sold well:

XBox's top 20 best-selling games of all time include Halo 2 (#1 with 8 million copies sold), Halo: Combat Evolved (#2, 5 million), Need for Speed: Underground 2 (#10, 1.44 million), Call of Duty 2 (#13, 1.39 million), and Dead or Alive 3 (#16, 1.28 million).

XBox 360's top 5 best-selling games of all time include Call of Duty: Black Ops (#2 with 12 million copies sold), Halo 3 (#3, 8.1 million), and Call of Duty: MW2 (#4, 7.562 million).

PS2's top 5 best-selling games of all time include Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (#2 with 14.89 million copies sold) and Gran Turismo 4 (#3, 10.76 million).

PS3's top 20 best-selling games of all time include Gran Turismo 5 (#1 with 9.19 million copies sold), Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (#2, 5.35 million), CoD: MW2 (#4, 4.8 million), CoD: Black Ops (#8, 3.269 million), CoD 4: MW (#18, 1.977 million), and CoD: World at War (#19, 1.83 million).

PC's top 15 best-selling games of all time, excluding digital purchases, include Battlefield 2 and StarCraft (tied for #5, each with 11 million copies sold), and StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty (#12, 6 million).

Allow me to read your mind: you are now going to claim that the Nintendo fanbase doesn't want games with competitive potential.

GBA's top 5 best-selling games of all time include Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire (#1 with 13 million copies sold), Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen (#2, 11.82 million), and Pokemon Emerald (#3, 6.32 million).

DS's top 15 best-selling games of all time include Pokemon Diamond/Pearl (#5 with 17.57 million copies sold), Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver (#8, 11.90 million), and Pokemon Platinum (#13, 7.06 million).

The thing about Nintendo's fanbase is that although most Nintendo gamers are not competitive gamers, these non-competitive gamers usually do not see or care about the competitive potential or lack thereof in the games and franchises they like (e.g., Pokemon, Smash, arguable certain incarnations of Mario Kart). If Nintendo competitively balanced 6th Gen Pokemon, do you truly believe their fanbase would suddenly refuse to buy it? If Nintendo competitively balanced the next Mario Kart, do you truly believe their fanbase would suddenly refuse to buy it? And so where is the evidence the Nintendo fanbase would refuse to buy the next Smash if Nintendo competitively balanced it? The people who want to compete will compete, and will want a balanced game. The people who don't want to compete won't compete, and won't care if they get a balanced game or not.

In short, many of the most popular franchises of all time have competitive potential. Pokemon. CoD. Halo. Gran Turismo. StarCraft. Smash. I specifically remember you repeatedly citing StarCraft as an example of a game/franchise that was doing "horribly" in sales because it was competitive, which is flat-out, obviously, blatantly, provably FALSE. People may get upset at being trolled, but that doesn't justify you trolling them--that's troll logic. Either stop trolling, or stop complaining at being called out for trolling.

PS: Before you bring up the, "Well, non-competitive players won't want to play a balanced Pokemon game because of the one competitive friend they will have that will come over and kick their asses and make the game not fun," consider this:

In a competitively balanced game, the only thing standing between the non-competitive player and victory is the skill gap between him and his opponent. In a competitively unbalanced game, both the skill gap AND the Akuma/MetaKnight/Wobbuffet of the game stand between the non-competitive player and victory. Balancing the game gives the non-competitive player a higher chance of victory than the unbalanced game, thus making it harder for the competitive player to kick his ass and make the game not fun.

 

[The Black mage]

I only have one thing to say about this manly man...

SHOW ME YO MOVES

 

[Deleted member]

Last I checked, trolling is deliberately saying something to get a rise out of someone, not saying something inaccurate while legitimately believing in what they say.

It does not matter whether SmashChu is right or wrong in what he says, he firmly believes what he is saying. While he can be labeled "ignorant" if he is factually wrong with what he says or "stubborn" if he refuses to change his views if they are wrong or even "arrogant", labeling him as a "troll" is idiotic and shows that the accuser doesn't know what it means to be a troll.

The sheer irony is by labeling SmashChu as a troll that should be ignored completely out of the blue is trolling in itself.

 

[SmashChu]

No, you are labelled a troll because your opinion does not conform to the facts, yet you insist on repeating it over and over with no data or evidence to back it up, in the face of plenty of data and evidence proving you wrong. You perpetually claim that "competitive" and "casual" can never coexist, because for some secret reason that only you are party to they are polar opposites that somehow cancel each other out. Even if we fallaciously exclude Melee, the #1 best-selling GC game OF ALL TIME with 7.1 million copies sold, there's plenty of recent or relatively recent games with competitive potential that ALSO sold well:

Your post is telling em a struck a nerve. What I'm say are simple observations yet you and others get upset.I think it's because you and other competitive players are very thin skin.

The simple reason you can not have you cake and eat it to is a matter of players. Normal people do not have time to sit there and master a video game. They do not have the time to learn the techniques. And the simple fact is that they do not want to. In a normal work day, you will have an hour to get ready, 8 hours for work, and another 2 hours for driving, and an hour for lunch. In a 16 waking hours, this is 5 hours in a day. That is not a lot of time. This also doesn't include cleaning and going t the store. You have the weekend, but you'll likely want to sleep, go out with friends, get lunch, or just, do something else. There is also the issue of girlfriends and kids. These things also take up more of your time. If you want to do something else, like go to school part time or invest (like I do), then you have less time. The simple fact is that people don't have time to learn a video game. These things are for entertainment. People want to play them. They don't want to waste their time losing to people who win by simply spending more time (and that is how fighting games, sans Smash, are structured). The issue with competitive minded games (those made to be competitive) is that they are made to be more difficult. Look around at what everyone wants. They want combos (you have to learn and memorize those), faster game (need better hand eye coordination which, people who don't play a lot of games, wont have), and advance techniques (which you have to learn).

What I've noticed of competitive Smash players (and I assume this is true in other games) is that they are either A)College students/kids (who have a lot of time) or B)hardcore gamers who play too many videogames. I don't see a lot of lawyers, doctors or accountants here. They have a lot to do and work 50-60 hour work weeks. I don't see people with kid either either (I think Diddy Kong, who just had a kid, is leaving Smash to take care of him, though ask him yourself).

Basically, what I'm saying is don't kill the messenger.

Game sales numbers

Note that most of those games are not designed to be competitive and neither is Smash. Pokemon is designed for little kids.

You mentioned Halo, which wasn't made to be competitive. It was just popular and people liked it. I do think Halo Reach was which didn't do as well as other halo games. Given, I haven't done any research on it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't get the purpose of this thread anymore. So I'm just gonna post this:

(Also, I don't have a kid yet. Am about 7 months away from that point. She's preggers though.)

 

[The Black mage]

I don't get the purpose of this thread anymore. So I'm just gonna post this:

(Also, I don't have a kid yet. Am about 7 months away from that point. She's preggers though.)

I was expecting Chuck Norris under that visor...

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Normal people do not have time to sit there and master a video game.

Your logic: "Normal people" do not have time to play videogames frequently, so they purchase multiplayer games based on their lack of competitive potential. Even though having no time to play games implies having no time to play games with friends, they still prioritize a multiplayer mode. They definitely don't buy, say, 1P games, or games with good 1P modes that just so happen to support multiplayer as well. Also, under-served audiences (e.g., hardcore multiplayer) don't deserve to have any games aimed towards them. Therefore, multiplayer games should be aimed towards people who do not have time to play games with friends.

My logic: "Normal people" who don't have time for games (with or without friends) probably won't be buying multiplayer games in the first place, balanced or not."Normal people" should have 1P games aimed towards them because that's most likely what fits their lifestyle. Therefore, multiplayer games should be aimed towards people who are able to play games with friends. Doesn't matter if they're college students or whatever, that's what multiplayer is all about: multiple players.

I truly and honestly believe that there is no way that your logic could possibly make more sense than mine. Please elabora--oh wait, I can't ask that, or else according to Swampy and Golden, that would make me a troll. Double-standards ftw!

Note that most of those games are not designed to be competitive and neither is Smash. Pokemon is designed for little kids.

Pokemon may be marketed to children, but they do balance it. Pokemon base stat totals are balanced: legendaries have 680, pseudo-legendaries have 600, mascot trios have 580, everyone else with very few exceptions has 540 or below (starters hover around 525). Pokemon attacks are also balanced: a move with base power above 100 has either an accuracy debuff, low pp, a negative effect (there are a multitude of varieties and severities), or some combination of the three. Out of all of 4th gen, my personal favorite, the only two broken Pokemon out of nearly 500 are Wobbuffet and Wynaut (aside from the pseudo-/legendaries and mascots who are somewhat designed to be game-breakingly powerful). This does not happen by accident. This happens by design, because the developers realized that Pokemon would be less fun if it was less balanced and there were broken or underpowered Pokemon running around kicking your ass or wasting your time or making the game too easy or too hard.

I have a degree in computational mathematics. I have experience in game design as it was my thesis topic. Even ignoring growth rates, catch rates, encounter rates, natures, breeding and hatching, etc., I know the math that goes into a simple Pokemon battle, and I know how absurdly hard and time-consuming it must have been to come up with it. Pokemon--and I guarantee you, every other game on that list--was designed for balance from start to ****ing finish, and if you weren't so (props to Golden for these two gems) ignorant and stubborn, maybe you'd realize that.

tl;dr Just because a game was "not designed to be competitive" does not mean it is, or should be, unbalanced. Maybe you'd understand the subtle difference between "not designed to be competitive" and "designed to be anti-competitive" if you had some field experience.


Regardless, to my knowledge, this is supposed to be a thread about what people want to see in SSB4--not what Nintendo should or shouldn't do, but what SWF, a competitive gaming community, wants to see in SSB4.








Also, Captain Falcon is awesome and needs a sex kick and his knee back, and there is no real reason why he shouldn't.

 

[Deleted member]

I truly and honestly believe that there is no way that your logic could possibly make more sense than mine. Please elabora--oh wait, I can't ask that, or else according to Swampy and Golden, that would make me a troll. Double-standards ftw!

No, what you just said makes you a troll.
Asking someone to elaborate their logic is not trolling, and how you came to that conclusion from my explanation makes me question your comprehension regardless if I agree with your argument.

 

[FalKoopa]

Reread the whole page once.

One thing I noticed that SmashChu did not even once bring up the word "balance", and yet Ferrish pulled out the "balance" argument out of thin air and started bashing SmashChu for it. lol

Now I wonder who's the troll now.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I might've stated this before, but what if Captain Falcon's helmet can be broken? When Captain Falcon has taken enough damage, his helmet will start to crack, and if even more damage is taken, it'll break, revealing his real face.

[collapse=Image]

[/collapse]

 

[FerrishTheFish]

No, what you just said makes you a troll.
Asking someone to elaborate their logic is not trolling, and how you came to that conclusion from my explanation makes me question your comprehension regardless if I agree with your argument.

So we've established that I made a troll-ish statement. Cool.

My question now is why it's ok for others to troll me but not ok for me to troll others. You've been constantly admonishing me even though I've been contributing to the conversation, yet I don't see you scolding Swampy or Koops for trolling and insulting and generally not contributing. Isn't that pretty much the definition of double-standards? Or is my comprehension just off?

Never mind, this mini-discussion is going nowhere.

Reread the whole page once.

One thing I noticed that SmashChu did not even once bring up the word "balance", and yet Ferrish pulled out the "balance" argument out of thin air and started bashing SmashChu for it. lol

Now I wonder who's the troll now.

I brought up a list of games which were both competitive and popular. SmashChu said, "Note that most of those games are not designed to be competitive and neither is Smash." But that is not a rebuttal to my argument. I said these games were "competitive/had competitive potential," not that they were "designed to be competitive"--SmashChu pulled that phrase out of thin air. (now who's the troll?) All of the games I brought up are competitive despite some of them not being designed for competition. Why? Because they were designed for balance. A game can be competitive or have competitive potential as long as it is designed for balance. That is what I tried to explain in my last post, using the example of Pokemon, which is competitive/has competitive potential because it is designed for balance, despite not being designed for competition.

I'm sorry that you lack the critical thinking skills to realize that "balance" and "competitive potential" are two terms that go hand-in-****ing-hand.

I'm also sorry that you lack the intellectual honesty to scrutinize SmashChu's statements as thoroughly as you scrutinize mine.


I want SSB4 to be competitive/have competitive potential (i.e., have a modicum of balance--like Melee). I don't care if they deliberately design it to be competitive, as long as they don't design it to be anti-competitive. Why is it that nobody on this thread seems to understand that "not designed to be competitive" and "designed to be anti-competitive" are different ****ing things?






Also, pivot retreating nairs are awesome with Falcon. And I love Falcon's moonwalk. And I like Brawl's reverse Falcon Pawnch, as well as the fact that it is more powerful than non-reversed Falcon Pawnch. And I like Melee's aerial Falcon Pawnch being more powerful than grounded Falcon Pawnch (unsure if this is true in Brawl). I hope all these features appear in SSB4 because of how awesome they are.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think the whole helmet should be broken, just maybe one eye area like Brawl intended.
A part of C. Falcon is the aura of enigma about him. Without the helmet, he kind of loses that. Same with Meta Knight. Would you be taking him seriously if he had the badass demeanor and voice without his mask?

 

[FalKoopa]

Ignoring the competitive/anti-competitive debate/argument, I don't wan't to see Captain Falcon's visor broken. I'm against the idea of characters looking visibly different after taking damage.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

A part of C. Falcon is the aura of enigma about him. Without the helmet, he kind of loses that. Same with Meta Knight. Would you be taking him seriously if he had the badass demeanor and voice without his mask?

 

[Deleted member]

So we've established that I made a troll-ish statement. Cool.

My question now is why it's ok for others to troll me but not ok for me to troll others. You've been constantly admonishing me even though I've been contributing to the conversation, yet I don't see you scolding Swampy or Koops for trolling and insulting and generally not contributing. Isn't that pretty much the definition of double-standards? Or is my comprehension just off?

I would say that your comprehension is off.

Now to SERIOUSLY reply to your post, the Falcon Punch recovery is interesting and the aerial return sounds wonderful. Kind of lost me on the easier way to perform tilts and smashes though.

In fact, Swampy even apologized for his trolling beforehand. Can't speak for FalKoopa, though he is not the issue at hand.

Quite frankly though, you reap what you sow, so I have absolutely no sympathy for you. I also probably wouldn't have "admonished" you (or be doing so now) and instead be telling FalKoopa to knock it off had you not felt the need to troll me and be a smartass towards what I say not once, but twice now.
Aside from that, I never said it was not ok for you to troll others. I mean really, my first post in this matter was merely pointing out the incorrectness of the label as well as the irony of using said label while the second post of mine was a response to you claiming that asking someone to elaborate their logic is trolling according to me, which in turn is trolling in itself.
So yeah, your comprehension needs some work, as I wasn't saying that you shouldn't be trolling; I'm saying you shouldn't be throwing the "troll" label without actually understanding what it means to troll.


....and since this really has nothing to do with Captain Falcon, I'm going to stop my end of the discussion here. I will ask that if you want to continue, please do so in a PM.

To be more on topic, I'm honestly not sure how much of Falcon's problems in Brawl are changes within his moves and how much can be attributed instead to the overall change in the engine from Melee to Brawl.
That being said, I'm starting to question how much good restoring Falcon to what made him better within past games in the series will do within an entirely new engine that is not the same as the others. (I may be a casual player, but sometimes the technical aspect is interesting to think about for me.)

EDIT:

-snips of unmasked characters-

Yeesh, yeah. That really helps out my case.
Could you just imagine unhelmeted Vader saying "Don't make me destroy you!"?

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Yeesh, yeah. That really helps out my case.
Could you just imagine unhelmeted Vader saying "Don't make me destroy you!"?

"You wear a mask for so long, you forget who you were beneath it."

... Wait, that's actually just irony.

More like:

"I am Gotham's reckoning!"

 

[Deleted member]

Please excuse me while I go laugh myself to death. Especially at the V part. It's more like "you wear the mask for so long, your face becomes the mask".
That reminds me, I should go watch V for Vendetta again. Such a great movie.

But on a serious note, do you agree with my take on a new engine possibly being problematic for a "UnBrawled" Falcon?

 

[SmashChu]

Your logic: "Normal people" do not have time to play videogames frequently, so they purchase multiplayer games based on their lack of competitive potential. Even though having no time to play games implies having no time to play games with friends, they still prioritize a multiplayer mode. They definitely don't buy, say, 1P games, or games with good 1P modes that just so happen to support multiplayer as well. Also, under-served audiences (e.g., hardcore multiplayer) don't deserve to have any games aimed towards them. Therefore, multiplayer games should be aimed towards people who do not have time to play games with friends.

My logic: "Normal people" who don't have time for games (with or without friends) probably won't be buying multiplayer games in the first place, balanced or not."Normal people" should have 1P games aimed towards them because that's most likely what fits their lifestyle. Therefore, multiplayer games should be aimed towards people who are able to play games with friends. Doesn't matter if they're college students or whatever, that's what multiplayer is all about: multiple players.

I truly and honestly believe that there is no way that your logic could possibly make more sense than mine. Please elabora--oh wait, I can't ask that, or else according to Swampy and Golden, that would make me a troll. Double-standards ftw!

My ACTUAL quote

Normal people do not have time to sit there and master a video game.

People play games for entertainment. The point of being accessible is breaking down the barrier to entry and get people to where they want to go. If you make games harder (i.e. more competitive), then you make them have to work for the enjoyment. People work enough in life, so why work in a video game? This is why I don't see doctors and lawyers on here. They do not have time for competitive video games.

Short version: People want entertainment. Accessable games are streamlined so these people can enjoy the game with out having to spend time in practice mode.

I have a degree in computational mathematics. I have experience in game design as it was my thesis topic.

When you make a best selling video game, come back and tell me.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

But on a serious note, do you agree with my take on a new engine possibly being problematic for a "UnBrawled" Falcon?

Blaming anything on the "engine" itself is a misnomer. An engine is nothing more than a tool for making fast and accurate approximations, and it is designed to be able to handle many different parameters with many possible values. That's why we make engines in the first place, so that when someone picks up a bunny hood, we can just change a few parameters instead of loading totally new laws of physics into the game. Now, it is possible for one specific engine to get stuck in a loop or make a roundoff/truncation error where another specific engine wouldn't, but these glitches typically result from an engine being fed a number that's bigger (or smaller) than it is designed to handle--and are therefore usually preventable on the design end. The P:M developers have essentially proven that the Brawl engine was robust enough to be capable of supporting Melee-like physics for Captain Falcon. It is very likely that SSB4's engine will also be capable of supporting Melee-like physics for Falcon. It is completely up to the engineers whether or not to give him Melee-like physics.

However, although SSB4 will be a new game, it's not as though they're starting from scratch. They have an established character roster, stage list, item list, damage system, stock system, etc., so whatever they come up with probably won't stray far from existing precedence. It just depends on which direction they decide to take it in.

People play games for entertainment. The point of being accessible is breaking down the barrier to entry and get people to where they want to go. If you make games harder (i.e. more competitive), then you make them have to work for the enjoyment. People work enough in life, so why work in a video game? This is why I don't see doctors and lawyers on here. They do not have time for competitive video games.

This is why I call you a troll. This is why I tell people to ignore you. Because you ignore any and all attempts to reason with you. Because you repeat the same arguments over and over again no matter how many times they are refuted. Do you have these written out in a .txt somewhere where you can just copy-paste into your posts?

Competitive videogames already exist. Today. Right here. Right now. They're not ruining people's lives. They're not turning fun into work. Why? Because the people who don't have time for them don't play them! Derp derp derpity derp derp!

Short version: People want entertainment. Accessable games are streamlined so these people can enjoy the game with out having to spend time in practice mode.

People want entertainment. Books, magazines, newspaper, TV, movies, internet forums, porn, social networks, YouTube, the circus, local sports games, listening to music, shopping, taking the scenic route home, and 1P games are all streamlined so that "normal" people can enjoy them without having to spend time in practice mode.

When you make a best selling video game, come back and tell me.

The best part about this comment is that it goes both ways. I'll counter with one that doesn't: When you get a degree that qualifies you to have any expertise whatsoever in this subject, come back and tell me.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I kinda regret trolling this guy. Too serious.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I kinda regret trolling this guy. Too serious.

"And do you accept this man's resignation?"

@FailKoopa: No need to be so bitter just because you tried to snipe me but were too stupid to pull it off. I know you barlw players aren't used to being punished so hard for small mistakes.

 

[Snakeyes]

What if you could cancel the early startup frames of a Falcon Pawnch to mess with your opponent?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What if you could cancel the early startup frames of a Falcon Pawnch to mess with your opponent?

A Roll-cancel-able Falcon punch would allow for some cool mindgames.

 

[FlareHabanero]

What if you could cancel the early startup frames of a Falcon Pawnch to mess with your opponent?

Well, it would be one way to make the Falcon Punch a bit more practical. In general it would be a step forward, considering that the Falcon Punch is a generally awkward attack.

 

[Pazzo.]

Watch the whole scene:

Falcon did not cause the explosion, it was going to happen anyway because the explosion is from the destruction of B. Shadow's Dark Reactor. The "Falcon Punch" was merely Falcon's way to keep B. Shadow from escaping said explosion and sacrificing himself in the process.

Ah... That makes sense....

 

[Ultinarok]

"And do you accept this man's resignation?"

@FailKoopa: No need to be so bitter just because you tried to snipe me but were too stupid to pull it off. I know you barlw players aren't used to being punished so hard for small mistakes.

You know, I don't mind the whole concept of wanting a competitively balanced game. The problem is that I think you're taking it a little too seriously when you consider that no Smash game will ever be perfectly balanced. Far too many variables to measure and predict. Therefore it may be easier to just tweak characters who are unanimously too weak/strong and leave it at that. Unlike some games like Starcraft for example, Smash does not need as much focus on its competitive aspects because it has plenty of content in addition to competitive multiplayer. Like you said, its not BUILT to be competitive, but it should be as balanced as possible. I agree, but arguing about it seems like a waste of time when not everyone plays competitively. Hell, I'd rather see all of my favorite characters, stages and game modes than have a perfectly balanced game; so if I had to choose where to invest my budget, I'd rather put it there. I think that's what Smashchu is suggesting. Neither of you are wrong.

That said, for god's sake, please give Falcon some better hitboxes and priority and he'll be good enough for me. Getting satisfying KO's with him didn't use to be a chore, and now it is.

 

[grizby2]

lets hope online updates can take care of balancing~

anyway, I love the idea of a canceling Falcon punch. I also think falcon punch could use more horizontal aerial movement. it would make it much more versatile and could be used as a risky yet surprising recovery. tied in with the reversing ability, I think I would use the move much more often. :D

 

[SpeedyJ]

I might've stated this before, but what if Captain Falcon's helmet can be broken? When Captain Falcon has taken enough damage, his helmet will start to crack, and if even more damage is taken, it'll break, revealing his real face.

And give him a power up like Wesker in UMVC3?

 

[Mr. OC]

Jesus Christ I didn't bother reading all of these posts due to the mass amount of arguing and cancerous memes being spouted.

Anyway, what I hope to see from Captain Falcon: A slightly revamped, yet slick design, seeing as they changed his appearance some in Brawl.
Raptor Boosting to no longer be a death wish when done off stage.
A new move or two.
Falcon Punch to be a CHARGE attack, rather than a special move with ****loads of start-up lag.
His F-smash from Smash64 to make a return (it looked way cooler than the elbow).
A new Down smash, preferably in the form of a fast paced sweep kick.

And I want him to no longer shout "FALCON PUNCH". As someone who uses C. Falcon, it's annoying as **** to get spammed with memes every time I do something "cool" with him.

Of course, most of this won't happen, but w/e.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

And I want him to no longer shout "FALCON PUNCH". As someone who uses C. Falcon, it's annoying as **** to get spammed with memes every time I do something "cool" with him.

That'd just take all the satisfaction from landing the attack away. It fits Captain Falcon's over the top personality so well, never take it away.

Anyways, can't wait to see what the Captain looks like, I hope he's a starter this time around.

 

[Mr. OC]

I dunno. I'd be a bit more satisfied if less people shouted "OMG EPIC XD *insert falcon punch joke here*" at me, every time I land a flashy move.
Not to mention, the whole screaming gimmick is just a homage to Kamen Rider.

I am eager to see what he looks like in these new, cartoony looking graphics though. I predict he'll look on the shiny side (leather clothing).
And to add to my list, I hope he gets a PROPER Blood Falcon costume this time.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

A proper Blood Falcon alt is a must for me.

Well, it would be one way to make the Falcon Punch a bit more practical. In general it would be a step forward, considering that the Falcon Punch is a generally awkward attack.

They should make it a charge and store move, like Samus' charge shot.
Or.. DK's punch.

I was expecting Chuck Norris under that visor...

Nice meme, you memespewer.