Canon personality vs. percieved personality

[Arthur97]

That post you just made is probably better-suited for this thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/dis...xample-of-how-another-game-handles-it.466070/ Also, I vaguely recall Sakurai having gone on record saying that he won't make any substantial alterations to any characters because he doesn't want to alienate people who enjoy playing as them the way they are.

And this is why Ganondorf and the echoes are likely to never get significantly better treatment so long as this man is in charge.

 

[Crystanium]

Dark Samus's intelligence is... kind of a mixed bag. On one hand, yes she is a military genius capable of planning a hundred steps ahead and knows how to make people do what she wants in addition to somehow figuring out how to best use all the technology and even biology at her disposal... but at the same time, her tactical prowess is critically undermined by her obsession with Phazon and corrupting others with it. Despite having it used against her several times by her archenemy, it never occurs to her to just kill Samus, preferably with means other than the one thing that can hurt her. She's smart, but isn't wise if you get what I mean. There's a reason she shows up in Zelda's Classic run, where the theme is facing off against "dumb" opponents.

Read the space pirate data from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. She's described as wise. Dark Samus may be single-minded, but that's not equivalent to simple-minded. Maybe Dark Samus prefers honor. She clearly demands loyalty in the third game, going so far as to kill those who show even a sign of doubt. She placed Gandrayda in a high position, so she may have had plans for using Samus against the Federation.

As for Classic Run, I wouldn't put much stock in that. I could have sworn I read somewhere that Sakurai thought Ridley was stupid.

 

[Arthur97]

Read the space pirate data from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. She's described as wise. Dark Samus may be single-minded, but that's not equivalent to simple-minded. Maybe Dark Samus prefers honor. She clearly demands loyalty in the third game, going so far as to kill those who show even a sign of doubt. She placed Gandrayda in a high position, so she may have had plans for using Samus against the Federation.

As for Classic Run, I wouldn't put much stock in that. I could have sworn I read somewhere that Sakurai thought Ridley was stupid.

Described as wise by the beings it brainwashed. Dark Samus is akin to a force of nature. No matter how much knowledge it gains, no matter how elaborate its plans become, it will still be ruled in the end by its nature. The nature to corrupt which turned out to be its downfall.

 

[meleebrawler]

Read the space pirate data from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. She's described as wise. Dark Samus may be single-minded, but that's not equivalent to simple-minded. Maybe Dark Samus prefers honor. She clearly demands loyalty in the third game, going so far as to kill those who show even a sign of doubt. She placed Gandrayda in a high position, so she may have had plans for using Samus against the Federation.

As for Classic Run, I wouldn't put much stock in that. I could have sworn I read somewhere that Sakurai thought Ridley was stupid.

Yeah, because fanatically brainwashed soldiers with metaphorical guns to their heads are a reliable source of intel on Dark Samus's character. Thinking you're the smartest, bestest thing around and shooting anyone that disagrees is not very compelling evidence.

Of course she sees Samus as being a potentially powerful asset to corrupt... the problem here is that she's at least twice tried to defeat her with Phazon only to have it turned back on her catastrophically both times. Does she learn from this? Noooo. She remains in complete denial that Phazon isn't the answer to everything until the very end.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The only evidence (that doesnt coke from corrupted individuals) we have seen of Dark Samus being intelligent is maybe the attack on Norion. Even then, the attack was being repelled until she herself came in. Then she left being too arrogant to finish off Samus which led to her losing the planet.

Dark Samus might be intelligent but her focus on corruption above all else harms her ultimate goal. She has no foresight.

 

[FirestormNeos]

But that scene was written to leave only the most beginner Sakurai friendly canonically powerful character left,

1FC0 I corrected your correction.

 

[Zinith]

Yoshi is one of the most powerful characters who deliberately holds himself back for his friends

 

[Idon]

Roy is...
Roy is like if Shinji Ikari acted like Naruto.

 

[1FC0]

1FC0 I corrected your correction.

I actually think it is all 3 correct.

 

[osby]

Read the space pirate data from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. She's described as wise. Dark Samus may be single-minded, but that's not equivalent to simple-minded. Maybe Dark Samus prefers honor. She clearly demands loyalty in the third game, going so far as to kill those who show even a sign of doubt. She placed Gandrayda in a high position, so she may have had plans for using Samus against the Federation.

As for Classic Run, I wouldn't put much stock in that. I could have sworn I read somewhere that Sakurai thought Ridley was stupid.

Wait, you vaguely remember reading something uncredited about Sakurai? That sure as hell sounds true, how dare he.

 

[Crystanium]

@Arturo79 meleebrawler
Being corrupted doesn't mean they were mindless drones. Also, the developers wrote what they wrote for a reason.

osby
Yep.

 

[Deleted member]

Ngl I love the boy but I kinda wish people didn't act like Shulk is some universe-rending god

The only time he has that kinda power is when he's given a temporary power amp from Alvis who has complete domain over that specific universe. Shulk can't just control all universes at will, and even if he could he was a god for like all of 2 minutes and it shouldn't be considered his base power level.

 

[ChikoLad]

Ngl I love the boy but I kinda wish people didn't act like Shulk is some universe-rending god

The only time he has that kinda power is when he's given a temporary power amp from Alvis who has complete domain over that specific universe. Shulk can't just control all universes at will, and even if he could he was a god for like all of 2 minutes and it shouldn't be considered his base power level.

Shulk wasn't even really a god ever. Alvis was basically his Genie of the Lamp. Shulk made a wish. Alvis granted it.

 

[NintendoKnight]

As for Classic Run, I wouldn't put much stock in that. I could have sworn I read somewhere that Sakurai thought Ridley was stupid.

"Thought Ridley was stupid"

Boxing Ring titled clearly labeled as "Cunning God of Death."

There's a discrepancy somewhere in your testimony, and I'm certain it's not with the party you attribute it to.

 

[meleebrawler]

@Arturo79 meleebrawler
Being corrupted doesn't mean they were mindless drones. Also, the developers wrote what they wrote for a reason.

osby
Yep.

You said it yourself, she doesn't tolerate any kind of doubters, no matter how small. This was also written by the devs. They're not mindless, but Dark Samus sure as hell expects complete and unquestioned obedience from her followers, under penalty of death if they don't meet this criteria, which amounts to pretty much the same thing.

 

[qerl08]

As for Classic Run, I wouldn't put much stock in that. I could have sworn I read somewhere that Sakurai thought Ridley was stupid.

I believe you are looking for this article https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...es-and-additions-choosing-taunts-much-more/2/

please note that he does not specifically call ridley "stupid" from the article it sounds like he is aknowledging the canonically intelligent but he doesn't LOOK intelligent, remarking that he wonders why the pirates would think he is intelligent and therefore follow him.

or at least that's my interpretation of it,

P.S. it also talks about how ridley's taunt shows his true size, so he wasn't resized he is just crouching

 

[Arthur97]

I believe you are looking for this article https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...es-and-additions-choosing-taunts-much-more/2/

please note that he does not specifically call ridley "stupid" from the article it sounds like he is aknowledging the canonically intelligent but he doesn't LOOK intelligent, remarking that he wonders why the pirates would think he is intelligent and therefore follow him.

or at least that's my interpretation of it,

P.S. it also talks about how ridley's taunt shows his true size, so he wasn't resized he is just crouching

He was still probably resized.

As for why they would follow him: examples. He likely proved himself, and may have killed off some dissenters to make a point.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

: Everyone acts like he is some innocent little crybaby, when really he is probably the most jaded ************ to be in smash. He watches his family crumble in front of him, fights horrific abominations of nature created by Porky, and SPOLIERS: watches his brother strike down his father, come to his senses, and then kill himself. His father dies in his arms and ends the world.

He ain't just some silly kid.
.

Spoiler

Flint didn't die. Yeah, he takes a huge hit from Claus in the battle, but he never fully collapsed, he's talking to Lucas just before he pulls the final needle and it doesn't really come off as him saying some final last words unlike Claus' death.
Even then, the ending is up to interpretation on whether Lucas ended the world or not. Especially, with The End? Followed by dialogue with the cast as you the player.
I personally think of a more hopeful positive ending, where the world is restored in Lucas' vision of a time before the pigmasks. Maybe even restored to be more than the nowhere island. This is supported by the mother 3 logo at the very end being rid of futuristic stuff and only having a nature aesthetic.

Anyways, I do agree with assessment that Lucas isn't much of a crybaby. Especially from the end of Chapter 3 onward. You can't really blame him before than, either.

 

[Lodestar65]

Perceived : Super edgy. Literally no personality outside of liking "hurtin' people and being badass," to quote the Coldsteel the Hedgeheg meme. Or, more rarely, just Pit but evil.

Canon : Mirror of Pit. Pit is fiercely loyal to Palutena, so Dark Pit is equally passionate about serving none but himself. Pit's super naive and kind of dumb, while Dark Pit is far more savvy and intelligent. However, while Pit is pretty much a pure good guy, Dark Pit is not evil. He's a completely neutral character, who only seeks to accomplish his own goals, but is also willing to ultimately fight the good fight when **** really goes down near the end of Uprising. Dark Pit is also very insecure about his identity as a clone of Pit, which drives his rivalry with and desire to defeat Pit, so he can prove his own superiority to himself.

 

[Arthur97]

Perceived : Super edgy. Literally no personality outside of liking "hurtin' people and being badass," to quote the Coldsteel the Hedgeheg meme. Or, more rarely, just Pit but evil.

Canon : Mirror of Pit. Pit is fiercely loyal to Palutena, so Dark Pit is equally passionate about serving none but himself. Pit's super naive and kind of dumb, while Dark Pit is far more savvy and intelligent. However, while Pit is pretty much a pure good guy, Dark Pit is not evil. He's a completely neutral character, who only seeks to accomplish his own goals, but is also willing to ultimately fight the good fight when **** really goes down near the end of Uprising. Dark Pit is also very insecure about his identity as a clone of Pit, which drives his rivalry with and desire to defeat Pit, so he can prove his own superiority to himself.

That is one thing, as a mirror of Pit, shouldn't he be a lot worse than he is? I mean, he is a flawed copy since Pit damaged the mirror before it finished, so that could explain it.

 

[Nepht]

He was still probably resized.

As for why they would follow him: examples. He likely proved himself, and may have killed off some dissenters to make a point.

Ridley is not that smart. He killed a small girl's parents in front of her for the laughs. And we all know how that turned out for him...

 

[meleebrawler]

That is one thing, as a mirror of Pit, shouldn't he be a lot worse than he is? I mean, he is a flawed copy since Pit damaged the mirror before it finished, so that could explain it.

If he was a true copy he would be serving Medusa (or Hades. Given Pandora seems to know him it's possible they're all in on using Medusa as a puppet ruler).
At least that's what she was planning on.

 

[SNinjaStudios]

Canon : A courageous knight who was overwhelmed by the leagcy of the Hero: everybody already had their own preconceived notions of the one who would wield the Master Sword and destroy the Calamity to the point where he decided to stop outwardly expressing himself, as he was afraid of ruining others' perception of him. He remained stoic until he saved Zelda from the Yiga Clan. By opening up about his struggles to her and her doing the same to him, the two of them bonded and became close friends (and maybe something more) until the Calamity happened and Link was thrown into the Shrine of Resurrection. Without his memories, he had returned to his true personality: carefree, cheerful, and somewhat sassy, albeit with some confusion thrown in there.

Fanon : HYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

 

[ZephyrZ]

Ridley is not that smart. He killed a small girl's parents in front of her for the laughs. And we all know how that turned out for him...

How was he supposed to know that that one random little girl would be given a high tech power suit and grow up to become the galaxy's great bounty hunter and action hero? Honestly the odds of that happening were pretty low. Riddles was just really unlucky.

 

[Lodestar65]

That is one thing, as a mirror of Pit, shouldn't he be a lot worse than he is? I mean, he is a flawed copy since Pit damaged the mirror before it finished, so that could explain it.

Yeah, it's because the mirror was destroyed before he was finished.

 

[FirestormNeos]

How was he supposed to know that that one random little girl would be given a high tech power suit and grow up to become the galaxy's great bounty hunter and action hero? Honestly the odds of that happening were pretty low. Riddles was just really unlucky.

unlucky? more like karma tbh.

 

[meleebrawler]

How was he supposed to know that that one random little girl would be given a high tech power suit and grow up to become the galaxy's great bounty hunter and action hero? Honestly the odds of that happening were pretty low. Riddles was just really unlucky.

And he absolutely meant to kill Samus first (mostly just because he saw her first), her mother instead sacrificed herself to protect her daughter, giving the latter time to escape while her dad tried to blow up the colony with the Pirates on it. At no point does Ridley randomly decide not to kill Samus just to leave her traumatized.

 

[Arthur97]

If he was a true copy he would be serving Medusa (or Hades. Given Pandora seems to know him it's possible they're all in on using Medusa as a puppet ruler).
At least that's what she was planning on.

Yeah, the mirror breaking is the explanation for why he doesn't serve the underworld army, but its never expressly confirmed to affect his personality, just that he wasn't loyal to Medusa. It is the most likely explanation though.

 

[ZephyrZ]

unlucky? more like karma tbh.

I'd say it was a mix of both karma and luck. Sure if he hadn't killed her parents she never would have come back for revenge but it was still a very unlikely scenario for her to ever achieve the means for revenge.

 

[osby]

That is one thing, as a mirror of Pit, shouldn't he be a lot worse than he is? I mean, he is a flawed copy since Pit damaged the mirror before it finished, so that could explain it.

Depends on what you mean. They physical abilities are pretty much a perfect match.

As for flaws, Dark Pit is Pit's Shadow archetype than anything. He's not evil, he's just everything Pit tries to keep hidden...which just means he's a brat with who hides good parts of his personality just to be independent. Exact opposite of how Pit hides bad parts of his personality to be a good general.

Though, tabula rasa and all, in the end of the game, his personality is more complex than that.

 

[Arthur97]

Depends on what you mean. They physical abilities are pretty much a perfect match.

As for flaws, Dark Pit is Pit's Shadow archetype than anything. He's not evil, he's just everything Pit tries to keep hidden...which just means he's a brat with who hides good parts of his personality just to be independent. Exact opposite of how Pit hides bad parts of his personality to be a good general.

Though, tabula rasa and all, in the end of the game, his personality is more complex than that.

I meant if he's the opposite or mirror, he should reasonably be evil, not neutral-good.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's actually rather funny but, I believe the implied / percieved personality of all the DKC characters is pretty much spot-on.

 

[osby]

I meant if he's the opposite or mirror, he should reasonably be evil, not neutral-good.

Not really, morals are not objective.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Lucina's actual personality caught me so off guard after seeing her in Smash for so long, I just kinda pictured her to be a bit more like she is in Smash.

 

[Lodestar65]

I meant if he's the opposite or mirror, he should reasonably be evil, not neutral-good.

Maybe it's supposed to show that Pit's loyalty to Palutena is stronger than his morals?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Maybe Dark Samus prefers honor.

Is that why she murdered Rundas in cold blood?


I promise that pun wasn’t intentional.

 

[Shmickle]

Perceived: Mario is at peak levels of anger (just look at his walk) and just wants a break.

Canon: Mario is forever emotionless.

 

[Luigifan18]

Perceived: Mario is at peak levels of anger (just look at his walk) and just wants a break.

Canon: Mario is forever emotionless.

Close, but no. Canon is that Mario is perpetually cheerful.

 

[Nepht]

Dark Samus is intelligent yes. But its an intelligence she got from Samus herself. You got to remember before Metroid Prime became Dark Samus she was a creature of instinct and Metroid story wise has not been intelligent for a serious length of time. Its all new to her and she will still have fresh enough memories of being a creature of instinct. That is why Dark Samus's personality is all over the place in the games she appears in. She is like an amoeba that has suddenly become Bobba Fett.

 

[Shmickle]

Close, but no. Canon is that Mario is perpetually cheerful.

Or he's just a sociopath