Cancel Recovery & auto canceling ? ALSO DI! (confirmed) EDIT*

[Exor]

Marth's fair was definitely different even though they claimed it was the exact same as the E3 build.

That's interesting. I wonder, if it is indeed slightly different, why the reps would be told/claim otherwise.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

@Weruop
because he doesn't understand how the game works.

Welcome to Smashboards, declaring game mechanics dead based off of outdated demo footage before the game comes out since 1842™.

K I think I understand. With the recovery move stuff tho, are u saying if u did a Mario up b while on stage, u could basically move the second u hit the ground?

HA. i don't think your reading the OP correctly. you guys are def more scientific about this video game than i am.


zango - this is beyond crazy now.

We - naw that i didn't even try ...that would not be cool


everyone read the post and tell me what I wrote wrong? so i know. not saying i know everything i just want the knowledge. I've learned a lot already from this thread.

the game is way faster in ssb4. this i know %200 i played for hours
went home and played brawl.. it was far from the same SSB4 is in its own category.

we forget brawl had potential but it lacked the speed, and it got rid of some super complex mechanics from melee. (unfortunately)
smash 4 seems to work at a picked up pace that will make some of the brawl mechanics shine.
more characters are similar to melee and n64 characters aswell.
i know this because i spent time with the 3ds.

i added the gif this morning. it is not apart of my original post. i will go back and state that so people don't think I'm saying this is exactly what I'm saying. i merely said it is kind of similar, and to show the speed.

i don't even care anymore i have my LL.
i will be playing this in 10 days.

 

[Noiblade]

Welcome to Smashboards, declaring game mechanics dead based off of outdated demo footage before the game comes out since 1842™.

Kind of related, but it wouldn't surprise me if the game was purposely made slowly to look more appealing to media.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

O.O THAT MARIO B-AIR HAD LITERALLY NO LANDING LAG!!!
Insane amount of proof, right here.

Yeah, about that... You can clearly see that as Mario hits the ground he lays on his back and then lifts himself up before attacking again. THAT IS landing lag. If there was "literally no" landing lag, then Mario would be standing in his idle animation when the smoke puffs appear.

 

[Cassio]

the pacman gif is from a 30fps clip. if you bothered to look at it in a gif editor you would clearly see it shows 7 30fps images of landing lag meaning 15 landing lag on bair. 15 =/= 0

lmao 15 frames. If you just look at the clip you can realize there isnt lag cancelling and that it isnt 15 frames.

A simple gif also works =P

The video displays 29.97fps while the game runs at 59.94fps, so for each image seen there is another that exists but is not displayed in the video. There are 6 images of Mario being in b-air landing lag. The frames between those that aren't seen are also landing lag, so that's a minimum of 11 frames, plus the frames before and after the first and last that aren't shown and may or may not be landing lag as well. Mario's b-air has 11-13 frames of landing lag (it had 10 in brawl, so that'd be slightly slower). Whatever move Pac-Man is doing shows 8 images of landing lag, so Pac-Man's aerial has somewhere between 15-17 landing lag. There is no cancel of any kind going on there.

Im gonna say theres something else unaccounted for here. Interesting as this is and easy as it was to see this wasnt any kind of cancelling, from eyeballing and experience the aerial is either as fast as or faster than marios bair in Brawl. I'd bet on it being the same though.

It wouldnt be the worst thing though. Brawl frame data + extra hitstun = win.

Blah, meant to do this on my Tagxy account ;[ trying to kill this one. Good game 3000th post.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Everyone.

None of us own the game yet, and have only had the chance of playing in short tiny bursts at the very most. They haven't changed anything. VGBootCamp had moveset videos up directly after E3, and Mario for example, was shown to have very little landing lag on his aerials already. It's not weird to see this now if you were paying attention back then.

All this whole thread proves is how freakin' ridiculous people have been with prejudging the game and it's mechanics after barely any play time, and there have been swathes of us pointing at the evidence and the footage showing that strong landing lag is a varied and carefully applied effect to only specific aerials that deserve it, and that there are characters with insane combo ability already seen like Sheik.

There is no "new" mechanic here. People are just actually learning how to play the game. Consider me so damned surprise that with more play time people have figured out how to play better.

What this is really a sign of, is that everyone needs to shut up about competitive viability for just a tiny bit so we can let the game release.

Oh, and @OP...

You should know better than to rile the "lower the landing lag!" sheep by posting something like this with absolutely zero proof, and only claims & anecdotes of "OMG THIS IS AWESOME IT FELT SO FAST EVERYTHING IS CANCELABLE". Especially when you don't even understand the game.

Please do not make a new thread concerning smash mechanics any time soon.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

THANKYOU EVERYBODY
I HAVE LEARED SO MUCH FROM YOU ALL

I THINK YOU GUYS ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE GAME PLAYING LIKE THIS OR THAT TO MUCH.. and thats totally fine
I DONT KNOW FRAME RATE AND I CANT EVEN WAVE DASH CONSISTENTLY IN SMASH (IM STILL A GREAT PLAYER)

I HAVE A FEELING SSB4 IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING OF ITS OWN.
WHICH TO ME IS AMAZING.
JUST LIKE PROJECT M. ITS BUILT LIKE MELEE BUT IT STILL ISNT MELEE

I REALLY THINK NINTENDO IS LISTENING TO YOU.

FROM ALL THE REPLIES AND VIEWS IM AMAZED BY YOUR DEDICATIONS. truly.


i have edited the OP one last time because its so confusing.
thankyou for just being awesome.

@Zipzo , @D1 , @ R RascalTheCharizard , @Hokori , @Supermodel From Paris

and more but i don't have time to tag u all

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

Yeah. And different doesn't mean bad. It's it's own thing with it's own rules. Just take the game as it is and learn to play it. A lot of tech will be learned for this game. Just because you are stuck with Melee and is scared of change or too lazy to learn a lot of stuff all over again, doesn't make the game any worse or less competitive. And in the end, it's Smash. If you don't love any Smash game, you're not a smasher.

 

[Tagxy]

Im not sure why peeps are looking forward to lag-cancel inputs. I thought everyone already agreed that was bad design. The only positive thing about this is that people now realize you can auto-cancel aerials as a big part of the metagame like people have been doing in Brawl for years.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Im not sure why peeps are looking forward to lag-cancel inputs. I thought everyone already agreed that was bad design.

Because they're excited about what that would mean for the overall gameplay, not the mechanic itself.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

THANKYOU EVERYBODY
I HAVE LEARED SO MUCH FROM YOU ALL

I THINK YOU GUYS ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE GAME PLAYING LIKE THIS OR THAT TO MUCH

I DONT KNOW FRAME RATE AND I CANT EVEN WAVE DASH CONSISTENTLY IN SMASH (IM STILL A GREAT PLAYER)

I HAVE A FEELING SSB4 IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING OF ITS OWN.
WHICH TO ME IS AMAZING.
JUST LIKE PROJECT M. ITS BUILT LIKE MELEE BUT IT STILL ISNT MELEE

I REALLY THINK NINTENDO IS LISTENING TO YOU.

FROM ALL THE REPLIES AND VIEWS IM AMAZED BY YOUR DEDICATIONS. truly.

IM JUST A RAPPER ON BRAINFEEDER WHO LOVES TO PLAY SMASH.
*shoulder shrugg* lol musicians love smash too
i have edited the OP one last time because its so confusing.

Your time and work has brought great knowledge of what's to come for Smash4, and for that, I am thankful.
It is very clear to see that this game has everything it needs to be a perfectly competitive game on the Melee level. Heck, I believe it will go even further then Melee has EVER gone with everything I've seen.
This game is going to rock our socks off one match after the other, moreso then Smash has ever done before. I truly, can not wait to get my hands on it. <3

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Im not sure why peeps are looking forward to lag-cancel inputs. I thought everyone already agreed that was bad design. The only positive thing about this is that people now realize you can auto-cancel aerials as a big part of the metagame like people have been doing in Brawl for years.

I don't really consider what we're discussing here as an extra input.

The game would just be lifting the restrictions on your normal inputs earlier.

I think the two are pretty conceptually different.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

Your time and work has brought great knowledge of what's to come for Smash4, and for that, I am thankful.
It is very clear to see that this game has everything it needs to be a perfectly competitive game on the Melee level. Heck, I believe it will go even further then Melee has EVER gone with everything I've seen.
This game is going to rock our socks off one match after the other, moreso then Smash has ever done before. I truly, can not wait to get my hands on it. <3

thanks man much love , for real

 

[Tagxy]

Because they're excited about what that would mean for the overall gameplay, not the mechanic itself.

With many aerials being auto-cancelable it has a large mitigating factor on the effects of landing lag. While I know where youre coming from, I wouldnt call unneeded complex inputs that damper depth good gameplay. Peeps just dont know what attributes games have or what to ask for unfortunately.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

In other words, what Mario is doing in this Smash 4 clip is a standard Brawl style autocancel.

There is no new landing lag cancelling technique.

Took the words from some of our mouths.

I remember people discussing this very clip way back after it first aired but people just dismissed it and focused on the massive downer attitude being generated by the Melee invitational players.

 

[Shaya]

So if I'm getting this right, someone's been figuring out that buffering still exists in Smash 4 and has been using it effectively, stop the presses we have the L-cancelling equivalent!

It's going to be a turbulent few months/years of "yeah that was in Brawl, thanks for the amazing discovery melee-dude, lol". Colonists is to melee like Zulus are to Brawl or something something analogy discovering everest/lake victoria/etc

 

[JV5Chris]

With many aerials being auto-cancelable it has a large mitigating factor on the effects of landing lag.

That depends largely on how far into the animation moves become auto-cancelable and/or at what point IASA frames occur.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

what just found this online

http://n4g.com/news/1577103/rumor-l-cancel-equivalent-makes-its-way-to-smash-bros-wii-u-and-3ds

n4g shout this thread out

 

[Captain Norris]

what just found this online

http://n4g.com/news/1577103/rumor-l-cancel-equivalent-makes-its-way-to-smash-bros-wii-u-and-3ds

n4g shout this thread out

Wow! lol that is crazy! Hopefully this isn't a waste of time like some are thinking! I canot wait to get my hands on the final game!
EDIT: Removed a quote that was auto-saved for some reason

 

[Deleted member 245254]

what just found this online

http://n4g.com/news/1577103/rumor-l-cancel-equivalent-makes-its-way-to-smash-bros-wii-u-and-3ds

n4g shout this thread out

*facepalm

Congratulations for contributing to the spreading of misinformation, as if there wasn't enough.

It even took D1 out of context, despite the fact he later clarifies in this very thread what he meant.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

ed. It is not like I have plans of becoming a high level player, but I would like to not have my butt kicked in online

Wow! lol that is crazy! Hopefully this isn't a waste of time like some are thinking! I canot wait to get my hands on the final game!

*facepalm

Congratulations for contributing to the spreading of misinformation, as if there wasn't enough.

It even took D1 out of context, despite the fact he later clarifies in this very thread what he meant.

mehh zipzo don't be that way ;/ lol. i really only wrote what i saw. i hope all this lands in everyones face and when its in yur hands you will understand.
plus the post says its only a rumor.
just thought it was crazy how it land on a few sites... I DO HOPE ITS NOT A WASTE OF EVERYONE TIME.

there is a lot of truth in my post in 10 days you will see, i admit i did have some terms misplaced but thanks to all of y'all
"yeezy taught me"

 

[Signia]

To further clarify D1's twitter, on stream he clarified the one about Marth being able to "do B-moves as he landed." On reddit people thought this meant you could cancel landing lag with B moves, but actually it meant that Marth's rising SH Fair end quickly enough to get a B move out before you land. So instead of SH double Fair you could do SH rising Fair to side-B.

 

[Shaya]

The gifs we've seen show that the mechanic doesn't exist in the WiiU/3DS E3 Demos, right?

Are you saying you had a later build and are still certain this exists? Are you really sure you aren't just buffering? Try just as you land flicking the analogue in the opposite direction you're standing and hold it there and see if you do "in the same amount of time" a simple turn around (and maybe you'll start walking in that direction).

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

mehh zipzo don't be that way ;/ lol. i really only wrote what i saw. i hope all this lands in everyones face and when its in yur hands you will understand.
plus the post says its only a rumor.
just thought it was crazy how it land on a few sites... I DO HOPE ITS NOT A WASTE OF EVERYONE TIME.

there is a lot of truth in my post in 10 days you will see, i admit i did have some terms misplaced but thanks to all of y'all
"yeezy taught me"

Shoutout kanye

 

[Azizibesmashing]

To further clarify D1's twitter, on stream he clarified the one about Marth being able to "do B-moves as he landed." On reddit people thought this meant you could cancel landing lag with B moves, but actually it meant that Marth's rising SH Fair end quickly enough to get a B move out before you land. So instead of SH double Fair you could do SH rising Fair to side-B.

@ Signia u my bro.

The gifs we've seen show that the mechanic doesn't exist in the WiiU/3DS E3 Demos, right?

Are you saying you had a later build and are still certain this exists? Are you really sure you aren't just buffering? Try just as you land flicking the analogue in the opposite direction you're standing and hold it there and see if you do "in the same amount of time" a simple turn around (and maybe you'll start walking in that direction).

i had the nintendo tour build, i dunno what it was but the stuff i was doing was not on ANY OF VGS youtube channel.
and the marth i described d1 mentioned he was def touched up. so shiiidddd 10 days we will find out

@ Rich Homie Quan all day lol

 

[Neitio]

mehh zipzo don't be that way ;/ lol. i really only wrote what i saw. i hope all this lands in everyones face and when its in yur hands you will understand.
plus the post says its only a rumor.
just thought it was crazy how it land on a few sites... I DO HOPE ITS NOT A WASTE OF EVERYONE TIME.

there is a lot of truth in my post in 10 days you will see, i admit i did have some terms misplaced but thanks to all of y'all
"yeezy taught me"

Lmao, I like you. You seem like a cool dude. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. Stuff like this keeps my hype going. If you're right, then that's cool; if you're wrong, that's cool still. I still have high hopes for the game.

Idk why people are being such hype leechers lol

 

[Captain Norris]

mehh zipzo don't be that way ;/ lol. i really only wrote what i saw. i hope all this lands in everyones face and when its in yur hands you will understand.
plus the post says its only a rumor.
just thought it was crazy how it land on a few sites... I DO HOPE ITS NOT A WASTE OF EVERYONE TIME.

there is a lot of truth in my post in 10 days you will see, i admit i did have some terms misplaced but thanks to all of y'all
"yeezy taught me"

lol looks like I forgot to delete part of that quote above that other quote... darn you autosave!

 

[Captain Norris]

And to you 100+ guests reading this: Join! I was on the edge, but the leak pushed me over! This community is so much more laid back and laxed compared to some others (especially Smogon) You will slide in nice and easy!

 

[Destrei]

I just want to play a game that isn't anything other than Smash WiiU. Not Brawl 2.0, not Melee 2.0

 

[Captain Norris]

I just want to play a game that isn't anything other than Smash WiiU. Not Brawl 2.0, not Melee 2.0

First Welcome to another day of the Boards! Second, this is definitely not a 2.0 of either of those! Thee are new mechanics and similar techniques! And due to these mechanics, these techniques will be played differently.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Lmao, I like you. You seem like a cool dude. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. Stuff like this keeps my hype going. If you're right, then that's cool; if you're wrong, that's cool still. I still have high hopes for the game.

Idk why people are being such hype leechers lol

This is exactly the mentality that is needed in this thread right now. No need for people to be harsh, OP is just trying to share something he found and was excited about.

 

[Captain Norris]

This is exactly the mentality that is needed in this thread right now. No need for people to be harsh, OP is just trying to share something he found and was excited about.

Exactly! BTW, you seem like a pretty chill person. Where do you stand in all of this?

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Exactly! BTW, you seem like a pretty chill person. Where do you stand in all of this?

Hard to say at this point. I think there has probably been some sort of improvement in lag if OP is this enthusiast about it all. Literally nobody was this excited about lag mechanics during E3. Everyone had a bad experience.

From the gifs and videos, things certainly seem faster. Overall, I think it's safe to be optimistic about all of this.

 

[Captain Norris]

Hard to say at this point. I think there has probably been some sort of improvement in lag if OP is this enthusiast about it all. Literally nobody was this excited about lag mechanics during E3. Everyone had a bad experience.

From the gifs and videos, things certainly seem faster. Overall, I think it's safe to be optimistic about all of this.

That is how I am also!
BTW, I cannot believe you haven't been here that long! It is like you have been here for a very long time with the way you act!

 

[Deleted member 245254]

This is exactly the mentality that is needed in this thread right now. No need for people to be harsh, OP is just trying to share something he found and was excited about.

Sharing something that is misinformation and wrong is different from sharing something you're excited about.

 

[JediLink]

I just want to play a game that isn't anything other than Smash WiiU. Not Brawl 2.0, not Melee 2.0

Well I just want to play a game that has constant interaction between players, offense/defense balance, counter-play, reward for creativity and ingenuity, and sensible consequences for playing well or making mistakes. I guess I'm just a ******** that wants Melee 2.0, amiright guys?

 

[Neitio]

Sharing something that is misinformation and wrong is different from sharing something you're excited about.

I'll be honest, I haven't checked every post in this thread, but has this truly been proven wrong??

Well I just want to play a game that has constant interaction between players, offense/defense balance, counter-play, reward for creativity and ingenuity, and sensible consequences for playing well or making mistakes. I guess I'm just a ******** that wants Melee 2.0, amiright guys?

Jokes aside, this is what I really want. All these basic fighting game qualities. Melee did a lot of these well, but there's no way I want Melee 2.0. That would be a boring move by Nintendo.

 

[JediLink]

I'll be honest, I haven't checked every post in this thread, but has this truly been proven wrong??

We don't know what the final game is going to be like, but we have established that this whole thread is based on a misinterpretation.

 

[Neitio]

We don't know what the final game is going to be like, but we have established that this whole thread is based on a misinterpretation.

Fair enough. I'll keep the hype up for something that addresses aerial lag tho.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

What lag? I don't see any lag.