Cancel Recovery & auto canceling ? ALSO DI! (confirmed) EDIT*

[Raijinken]

I started playing smash in April. I have never owned a Nintendo product until April besides a gameboy.

Wavedashing is easy. You hold the control stick as if you're trying to crouch and move forward and you press jump then shield. Why do people think this is hard?

Thinking this is hard because of the timing and precise inputs is the equivalent to thinking shooting people in a FPS is hard. You precisely move the control stick onto your moving target, and you input certain buttons at the time your reticule cross them.

To expand on that last thought, the strategies implemented in those games are useless without a level of mechanical skill (aim+movement+shooting, etc) and winning is impossible against someone who is good at both, even if you are god tier at one of them. This is precisely how something competitive should function. Intuitive mechanical and strategic depth.


Now, I agree that entry level competitive play should not be so ****ing demanding as melee, but when a game has been played competitively for 13 years, it's to be expected. To word that differently, you should get better at a game for your experience. 13 years is a lot of time for acquired experience. If there are not difficult mechanical inputs, as well as difficult strategy, the game will have an obvious skill ceiling which is not a good thing in any competitive game.


I am stoked to try smash 4. I hope it has difficult viable mechanics as well as a strategical requirement to be good at.

Congrats, you're better at a technique than someone who has been using Nintendo systems for 20 years. Thanks to that, you are able to compete, and I am not. That sort of distinction and barrier is what I feel should be lowered, and fortunately for me and unfortunately for some, Smash4 seems to have done that while keeping some advanced (but still intuitive) techniques around.

I'm looking forward to finding out how the final build works. All this speculation is running in circles.

 

[Kosaki]

Oh **** this game is fast.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

@standardtoaster BRO THIS GAME IS DUMB FAST.
that was not the gif all super sped up

proof mob.

right?

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

You know

Sakurai is kinda cute

 

[D1]

It is special in the sense that it was rather impossible autocancel Marth's F-Air during E3. All of the Marth mains were worried that the bread-and-butter move got nerfed with a ton of landing lag.

I don't know if the autocancel frames for F-Air have been present all along and nobody was able to do it up until now, or if Nintendo has changed some variables in the demo. I'm glad that it has been discovered that autocancel frames are indeed present in Marth's F-Air, just like in Brawl.

I know that autocancelling exists in brawl, guys T_T

Marth's fair was definitely different even though they claimed it was the exact same as the E3 build.

 

[Kosaki]

Now, I wonder, I didn't read all the thread, but, does this technique work for every aerial attacks ?

 

[Azizibesmashing]

Marth's fair was definitely different even though they claimed it was the exact same as the E3 build.

yes this I'm positive, marth felt better than the old videos i saw

 

[DaDavid]

Oh damn, this is all very exciting for me. Maybe I'll pick Marth back up as a main in an official Smash game.

 

[Zango]

yes this I'm positive, marth felt better than the old videos i saw

The Marth board is still playing Chicken Little as far as I know, though.

 

[Keitaro]

bro this is practically all the characters i mentioned in my post.
trust me.

All what characters in what post? Are you saying that all characters in your original topic post can do the aerial cancel? Having a bit of trouble understanding your sentences tbh lol.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

All what characters in what post? Are you saying that all characters in your original topic post can do the aerial cancel? Having a bit of trouble understanding your sentences tbh lol.

read my OP.
the characters i mentioned.
plus megaman

 

[Renji64]

any actual proof of any of this yet?

 

[Turokman5896]

I'm curious, is this canceling along the lines of dashing at the right time, or do you need to pull of multiple fast inputs?

 

[Azizibesmashing]

I'm curious, is this canceling along the lines of dashing at the right time, or do you need to pull of multiple fast inputs?

right timing.
simple... felt natural i caught on quick

 

[Turokman5896]

right timing.
simple... felt natural i caught on quick

This is very exciting! Hopefully I'll be able to learn how to be competitive this time around!

 

[Keitaro]

As for dash dancing, it's basically the exact same as Brawl. So no real viable dash dance since the turn around input time is too short for you to create distance. But you can still pivot dash like in Brawl. You can see me do it often in my first play throughs of Marth at E3. I do it about 5 times beginning at 1:57 to the end of the video: http://youtu.be/wjbNBMOuNvE?t=1m57s

 

[PizzaWenisaur]

I got some analysis but how do I do a spoiler tag?

'Cuz I got like 30 pics and I want to make it easier to view.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

I got some analysis but how do I do a spoiler tag?

'Cuz I got like 30 pics and I want to make it easier to view.

no idea give it us raw. lol

 

[Xiao-Xiao]

I was also at the Irvine Spectrum, and while so can confirm pivot canceling, things such as L-canceling were absent.

Auto canceling in the game functioned in the same way it functions in Brawl. Moves like Marth's Fair, did have IASA frames where you can interrupt the attack with a tilt or jab, but it wasn't significant as in the previous games where you can follow up a Fair with dancing blade. It's just the lag on his Fair seems to not be as bad as we originally assumed. There are some moves that are auto cancelable from a short hop, but some aren't, such as Fox's Fair, Greninja's Bair, Pit's Uair etc. It's just like Brawl.

L-canceling is definitely absent from the game, pivot canceling is still in. Nothing has changed from the E3 demo, as it is the same alleged build.

bro why didn't you tell me about this i could have gone with you lol

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

bro why didn't you tell me about this i could have gone with you lol

Lol my bad. I was gonna go again but it costs like 10 bucks for a one way ticket to Irvine.

Yeah I kinda went rogue on that one.

 

[PizzaWenisaur]

Whatever, making it in parts...
First off, I made sure Mario's B-air in the E3 Roundtable and VGBC video were from about the same height.

Spoiler

Then I went frame by frame to see how long it took to recover.
Edit: This was taken from a Youtube video - which only runs at 30 fps.

Spoiler

 

[Azizibesmashing]

View attachment 23873 View attachment 23874

this is a good thing right?

i don't count frames like that i just smash but what your showing me looks great

 

[PizzaWenisaur]

CONCLUSION

It's the same. Perhaps a couple of frames faster but not anything I don't think wouldn't happen in Brawl I suppose.

EDIT: I used Forevid, which analyses frames and is some program apparently for forensic and law enforcement officers.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

CONCLUSION

It's the same. Perhaps a couple of frames faster but not anything I don't think wouldn't happen in Brawl I suppose.

EDIT: I used Forevid, which analysis frames and is some program apparently for forensic and law enforcement officers.

dude this is way faster than brawl. i was just playing it and just from watching the video its looks mad HYPE.

dope break down bro

 

[PizzaWenisaur]

dude this is way faster than brawl. i was just playing it and just from watching the video its looks mad HYPE.

dope break down bro

No problem.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

This thread has certainly grown a lot more than I thought is would.

 

[Hokori]

@ PizzaWenisaur I merged your posts and put the images in spoiler tags since it was a whole lot to deal with. For future reference, spoiler tags are "[ spoiler ] [ / spoiler ]" except with no spaces.

Hmm...so Dash Dancing is the same in Brawl (for the time being at least), but players are confirming that some moves seem to be different although it was claimed that the build is E3's.

If only I could play/see the final build nowww

 

[Noiblade]

So, I know what this is, but can someone explain to me what's going on? Some people are just saying this doesn't exist, and some other people say it does, and i'm just really confused.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

@ PizzaWenisaur I merged your posts and put the images in spoiler tags since it was a whole lot to deal with. For future reference, spoiler tags are "[ spoiler ] [ / spoiler ]" except with no spaces.

Hmm...so Dash Dancing is the same in Brawl (for the time being at least), but players are confirming that some moves seem to be different although it was claimed that the build is E3's.

If only I could play/see the final build nowww

And to think,.. there are still 20+ characters none of us have truly seen in action yet... My mind is hurting.

 

[Magus420]

A simple gif also works =P

The video displays 29.97fps while the game runs at 59.94fps, so for each image seen there is another that exists but is not displayed in the video. There are 6 images of Mario being in b-air landing lag. The frames between those that aren't seen are also landing lag, so that's a minimum of 11 frames, plus the frames before and after the first and last that aren't shown and may or may not be landing lag as well. Mario's b-air has 11-13 frames of landing lag (it had 10 in brawl, so that'd be slightly slower). Whatever move Pac-Man is doing shows 8 images of landing lag, so Pac-Man's aerial has somewhere between 15-17 landing lag. There is no cancel of any kind going on there.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

So, I know what this is, but can someone explain to me what's going on? Some people are just saying this doesn't exist, and some other people say it does, and i'm just really confused.

Basically, there is no known cancelling of aerial landing lag (except for airdodge Zairs). It seems that moves with much shorter landing lag have been misinterpreted as moves with cancellable landing lag. In that sense, landing lag on aerials follows the same rules as Brawl.

 

[Weruop]

I'm confused. If it's the same as brawl then why does the original post now say he was canceling recovery move landing lag? Am I missing something??

 

[Azizibesmashing]

I'm confused. If it's the same as brawl then why does the original post now say he was canceling recovery move landing lag? Am I missing something??

my lag cancel
does not have an example.
i just described what i did.
now everyone is saying its not this and its that
its honestly super confusing now.

 

[fabulouspants]

@ Weruop
because he doesn't understand how the game works.

 

[DarkDragoon]

A simple gif also works =P

The video displays 29.97fps while the game runs at 59.94fps, so for each image seen there is another that exists but is not displayed in the video. There are 6 images of Mario being in b-air landing lag. The frames between those that aren't seen are also landing lag, so that's a minimum of 11 frames, plus the frames before and after the first and last that aren't shown and may or may not be landing lag as well. Mario's b-air has 11-13 frames of landing lag (it had 10 in brawl, so that'd be slightly slower). Whatever move Pac-Man is doing shows 8 images of landing lag, so Pac-Man's aerial has somewhere between 15-17 landing lag. There is no cancel of any kind going on there.

-DD

 

[Azizibesmashing]

A simple gif also works =P

The video displays 29.97fps while the game runs at 59.94fps, so for each image seen there is another that exists but is not displayed in the video. There are 6 images of Mario being in b-air landing lag. The frames between those that aren't seen are also landing lag, so that's a minimum of 11 frames, plus the frames before and after the first and last that aren't shown and may or may not be landing lag as well. Mario's b-air has 11-13 frames of landing lag (it had 10 in brawl, so that'd be slightly slower). Whatever move Pac-Man is doing shows 8 images of landing lag, so Pac-Man's aerial has somewhere between 15-17 landing lag. There is no cancel of any kind going on there.

my example with mario went exactly like this. short hop fair. when i landed i dashed to the left or right or went right into a full shield.
i was unable to get hit doing so...

I'm out though ..
lolol

IM SO CONFUSED NOW

 

[Zango]

-DD

Welcome to Smashboards, declaring game mechanics dead based off of outdated demo footage before the game comes out since 1842™.

 

[Weruop]

K I think I understand. With the recovery move stuff tho, are u saying if u did a Mario up b while on stage, u could basically move the second u hit the ground?

 

[HeavyLobster]

-DD

Because Sheik's Fair is completely ruined by that crippling 8-frame landing lag. /sarcasm

 

[Fenriraga]

Whether or not there actually is some form of attack cancelling is almost irrelevant at this point, tbh. The game is not Brawl, nor is it Melee. What becomes of that is yet to be seen, because frankly, if people can play Brawl competitively, then Smash 4 will be absolutely fine. For all we know, there could be some crazy exploit people find like in Melee, or even something less marginal. We really just need more than a single day's worth of time to actually analyze this game to the bone, which could begin as early as 10 days from now. All we can judge now is what we SEE, not how the game actually feels.