Cancel Recovery & auto canceling ? ALSO DI! (confirmed) EDIT*

[Azizibesmashing]

We don't know what the final game is going to be like, but we have established that this whole thread is based on a misinterpretation.

the OP has been shaved down.
less confusing and accurate now
the comments are very confusing .
my title featured L canceling so everyone jumped out of there seat.
in my demo i was able skip the lag animation into an attack, shield,or dash left and right
thus not being able to be hit. we figured out this is not L canceling but something that was in brawl but tweaked it seems.
possibly something entirely new.

the pivot cancel is def something that is %1000000 (you can find this online)
in the game in its own unique fashion

also the sakurai video was posted because it was behind closed door earlier this year
pacman has not yet been playable to the public, the speed seems to be faster and the moves seem unique
also mario does some super funky ish.
So I added it

adding this so people know where we are at the situation lol

Because of my lack of knowledge lol
I started a riot. I can't say I'm about that frame count life

 

[Blakebtb23]

So, If what OP is talking about truly was an autocancel, like people are claiming, then wouldn't you be able to jump immediately after the 4 frames of lag? OP claims that you can only cancel the lag with a dash, shield or an attack--but not a jump. Isn't this a pretty solid argument against auto canceling being what OP experienced? I believe that this deconfirms the theory that all of the OP's claims were autocancels; I think either most moves have IASA frames during the landing lag, or this is an entirely new mechanic.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

So, If what OP is talking about truly was an autocancel, like people are claiming, then wouldn't you be able to jump immediately after the 4 frames of lag? OP claims that you can only cancel the lag with a dash, shield or an attack--but not a jump. Isn't this a pretty solid argument against auto canceling being what OP experienced? I believe that this deconfirms the theory that all of the OP's claims were autocancels; I think either most moves have IASA frames during the landing lag, or this is an entirely new mechanic.

Attacks DO have IASA in their landing lag frames how many times do I have to say this? (However, current evidence suggests that it is not enough to lower the landing lag to borderline non-existent levels.)

Also nowhere in the OP did it say jumping out of it was impossible, or that dashing, shielding and attacking were the "only" possibilities. It may not be an autocancel, but the autocancel theory has not been ruled out yet.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Sharing something that is misinformation and wrong is different from sharing something you're excited about.

Not at all. All I'm saying is that there is no need to be coarse with OP. Addressing a misinterpretation can and should be done in a positive manner.

 

[Comeback Kid]

OP shouldn't SCREAM at us in BOLDED CAPS and Big Letters though in multiple posts. As if that makes his points stronger instead of louder. That is pretty rude internet behavior.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

OP shouldn't SCREAM at us in BOLDED CAPS and Big Letters though in multiple posts. As if that makes his points stronger instead of louder. That is pretty rude internet behavior.

You're interpreting it as screaming? I see it more as him being just really hyped. He already admitted that he is probably misinterpreting things and that he wants to learn. His conduct isn't bad, really.

That is how I am also!
BTW, I cannot believe you haven't been here that long! It is like you have been here for a very long time with the way you act!

I got used to the environment here pretty fast, I guess. I'm not entirely privy on everything though.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

While people are complaining about landing lag etc.: I can confirm from analyzing Nintendo Treehouse footage frame-by-frame that Link's jump has 3 to 4 video frames of startup time on a 30 fps video (as in sometimes it's 3 frames, sometimes it's 4 frames). What does this mean? It means jump startup in Smash 4 is longer than the 5 frames it was in Brawl, likely 7 frames given the data. This would likely also mean that the input window on a short hop is 2 to 3 frames longer. In Brawl, the startup time for a short hop was 3 frames. In Smash 4, it could potentially be as many as 6 frames, or 5 at the least, which would widen the window of execution significantly. It would also mean that you'd need to rely more on rolling dodges to avoid attacks, because a jump wouldn't always cut it.

Speaking of that, based on that same Treehouse footage, Link's forward and backward rolls have intangibility from frame 1 (or at the very least, frame 2).

 

[Squii The Fish]

For everyone who has contributed positively to this thread thankyou. I have been having second thoughts about smash 4 lately and its good to know its not going to be a abysmal creature as I thought it potentially could. Great stuff thankyou guys, looking forward to the game yo.

internet behavior.

I laughed

 

[Deleted member 245254]

For everyone who has contributed positively to this thread thankyou. I have been having second thoughts about smash 4 lately and its good to know its not going to be a abysmal creature as I thought it potentially could. Great stuff thankyou guys, looking forward to the game yo.



I laughed

You probably shouldn't let random people you've never met before dictate your opinion in the first place.

 

[AAkacia]

Congrats, you're better at a technique than someone who has been using Nintendo systems for 20 years. Thanks to that, you are able to compete, and I am not. That sort of distinction and barrier is what I feel should be lowered, and fortunately for me and unfortunately for some, Smash4 seems to have done that while keeping some advanced (but still intuitive) techniques around.

I'm looking forward to finding out how the final build works. All this speculation is running in circles.

I actually love you for not firing at me with ad homs and defensiveness when my post probably came off as flagrant. I do not mean it that way, as it is hard to keep a post from getting too wordy while conveying a detailed idea without using blunt language most assume to be offensive.

Anyways, have you put ample time and focused technique into learning certain inputs for ATs and still are unable to do it? Some may argue, but I really feel as if high paced games should be mechanically demanding as well as mentally demanding. Almost anyone can become a technical player, and almost anyone can become good at di mixups/mindgames/outsmarting their opponents. Some people are naturally inclined to one or the other, but true prowess shines when there is a combination of the two in any competitive environment. I appreciate brawl for what it was, but I feel it lacks the "smash bros" feel to it after playing all the iterations. (obviously that comment is to leave out PM as it is not an official title) Yes sm4sh should be it's own game, not melee or brawl or 64, but it should also feel like smash which I feel like Brawl didn't do. Players who played since 64 release day picked up a game that wasn't smash anymore. Anyone who played ample 64 and melee are typically obliged to agree. I just hope for smash's competitive scene's sake that smash4 feels like Smash.

You are right though. All the speculation is running in circles until we have our hands on the Sm4sh.

While people are complaining about landing lag etc.: I can confirm from analyzing Nintendo Treehouse footage frame-by-frame that Link's jump has 3 to 4 video frames of startup time on a 30 fps video (as in sometimes it's 3 frames, sometimes it's 4 frames). What does this mean? It means jump startup in Smash 4 is longer than the 5 frames it was in Brawl, likely 7 frames given the data. This would likely also mean that the input window on a short hop is 2 to 3 frames longer. In Brawl, the startup time for a short hop was 3 frames. In Smash 4, it could potentially be as many as 6 frames, or 5 at the least, which would widen the window of execution significantly. It would also mean that you'd need to rely more on rolling dodges to avoid attacks, because a jump wouldn't always cut it.

Speaking of that, based on that same Treehouse footage, Link's forward and backward rolls have intangibility from frame 1 (or at the very least, frame 2).

I just want to add that the average jump animation speed in melee was 5.3 frames. Link's in melee was 7 frames. Source

 

[Azizibesmashing]

OP shouldn't SCREAM at us in BOLDED CAPS and Big Letters though in multiple posts. As if that makes his points stronger instead of louder. That is pretty rude internet behavior.

You're interpreting it as screaming? I see it more as him being just really hyped. He already admitted that he is probably misinterpreting things and that he wants to learn. His conduct isn't bad, really.

I got used to the environment here pretty fast, I guess. I'm not entirely privy on everything though.

of


When I used caps I wanted those to see something, I never used caps calling any body out, I don't use caps as a sign of me raising my voice (not wrong to think that so i feel you) I used caps to address that I was incorrect and i was unaware of some things. The thread is so confusing . So when you see my caps it's only to guide new readers from my mistakes.

Also Thankyou rich.

A lot of people are over thinking it but I guess I can't blame you, I don't do the forum thing like that I know you have a certain code of conduct

 

[Scicky]

Do you know if this works to cancel the lag from recovery moves or moves like Jolt Haymaker? I can see a few characters that could benefit from that if so.

 

[Roko Jono]

Do we know this is the FINAL build? Because this sounds like one of the demos, which I wouldn't call it confirmed if that's true.

The Brawl demo had all characters have zero landing lag and we all know how that turned out in the final build...

 

[Neitio]

You probably shouldn't let random people you've never met before dictate your opinion in the first place.

Man you are just no fun zone all around, huh? Depressing lol.

 

[guedes the brawler]

The problem is the amount of tricks and techniques. One or two are okay, but not everyone have time to learn and practice all of those things you mentioned. It is not like I have plans of becoming a high level player, but I would like to not have my butt kicked in online matches simply because I don't have time to learn one hundred tricks and mind games, you know?

sorry, but that's just laziness. if someone has practiced stuff and knows how to apply it, they will beat you or have a huge advantage.

even if smash 4 had literally ZERO movement and attack ATs; this would still be true in most case.


by the way, wasn't played by sakurai himself?

 

[Azizibesmashing]

sorry, but that's just laziness. if someone has practiced stuff and knows how to apply it, they will beat you or have a huge advantage.

even if smash 4 had literally ZERO movement and attack ATs; this would still be true in most case.


by the way, wasn't played by sakurai himself?

yes, and he one. the video is in the OP

 

[Squii The Fish]

You probably shouldn't let random people you've never met before dictate your opinion in the first place.

I guess I just

Spoiler

LOSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT MYYYYYYYYYYYY WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[fabri]

 

[Azizibesmashing]

LMFAO. me when i first saw this footy too

 

[Une]

While people are complaining about landing lag etc.: I can confirm from analyzing Nintendo Treehouse footage frame-by-frame that Link's jump has 3 to 4 video frames of startup time on a 30 fps video (as in sometimes it's 3 frames, sometimes it's 4 frames). What does this mean? It means jump startup in Smash 4 is longer than the 5 frames it was in Brawl, likely 7 frames given the data. This would likely also mean that the input window on a short hop is 2 to 3 frames longer. In Brawl, the startup time for a short hop was 3 frames. In Smash 4, it could potentially be as many as 6 frames, or 5 at the least, which would widen the window of execution significantly. It would also mean that you'd need to rely more on rolling dodges to avoid attacks, because a jump wouldn't always cut it.

Speaking of that, based on that same Treehouse footage, Link's forward and backward rolls have intangibility from frame 1 (or at the very least, frame 2).

As far as I know in melee and brawl jump startup has varied on a character-to-character basis. In melee the fastest jump startup was 3. Chars such as Fox and Pikachu and Sheik had this. Falco was 5 I think. Slowest was Bowser at 8 frames. Link had a 5 or 6 frame jump I believe.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

As far as I know in melee and brawl jump startup has varied on a character-to-character basis.

Hmm... Did not know that. I assumed it was uniform for all characters in Brawl on the basis that the few characters I have looked at (Sonic, Lucario, and I believe Zero Suit Samus) all had 5-frame jump startup.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

Well, I'm glad this was cleared up. I'm very interested to see how the metagame for Smash 4 will play out.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I guess I just

Spoiler

LOSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT MYYYYYYYYYYYY WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I will la kill you.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

I will la kill you.

gurren lagan > kill la kil


though Kil was mad sick.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

gurren lagan > kill la kil


though Kil was mad sick.

I thought both were equally obnoxious as a show, I mostly just like the look of Ryuko and the soundtrack.

Though I did watch it weekly.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

I thought both were equally obnoxious as a show, I mostly just like the look of Ryuko and the soundtrack.

Though I did watch it weekly.

both amazing animus, i agree.
the humor is on point.


not sure if your a hunter x hunter fan?
but I'm so upset the anime is ending.
to the manga we go

 

[Cold Fusion]

Gaise get back on track before a mod tells us no fun allowed.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Oh hey, on-topic-ish: You know that Japanese commercial for the 3DS version?

http://youtu.be/omeOylQYkuU?t=22s

Well, right here we see Mario attacking Bowser during a sort of "how to play" section. But what's interesting about this is that Bowser only flinches for a moment when hit, then goes into an unusual sort of landing animation. In fact, he actually lands between the first set of jabs. So the question is: was Bowser potentially able to act out of that landing animation? If the answer is yes, then aside from the second set of jabs, none of those hits combo'd and Bowser would actually have been able to shield out of the first jab combo and counter. If the animation is not interruptable, then Bowser just ate a 5-hit combo entirely grounded.

The other, and arguably even more interesting thing is that Mario is able to perform his first two jabs repeatedly without having to jab-cancel. It looks like the window for continuing the jab combo is shorter than it was in Brawl, which is honestly probably a good thing.

 

[solitonmedic]

Little Mac has cancels? Heckie yeah~!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well at least the pivot and run stop cancelling is still a thing and confirmed.

Even if this is still in the air.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

Oh hey, on-topic-ish: You know that Japanese commercial for the 3DS version?

http://youtu.be/omeOylQYkuU?t=22s

Well, right here we see Mario attacking Bowser during a sort of "how to play" section. But what's interesting about this is that Bowser only flinches for a moment when hit, then goes into an unusual sort of landing animation. In fact, he actually lands between the first set of jabs. So the question is: was Bowser potentially able to act out of that landing animation? If the answer is yes, then aside from the second set of jabs, none of those hits combo'd and Bowser would actually have been able to shield out of the first jab combo and counter. If the animation is not interruptable, then Bowser just ate a 5-hit combo entirely grounded.

The other, and arguably even more interesting thing is that Mario is able to perform his first two jabs repeatedly without having to jab-cancel. It looks like the window for continuing the jab combo is shorter than it was in Brawl, which is honestly probably a good thing.

@Zipzo @Hokori i just noticed what he pointed out.
what are your thoughts?

 

[Colino]

Oh hey, on-topic-ish: You know that Japanese commercial for the 3DS version?

http://youtu.be/omeOylQYkuU?t=22s

Well, right here we see Mario attacking Bowser during a sort of "how to play" section. But what's interesting about this is that Bowser only flinches for a moment when hit, then goes into an unusual sort of landing animation. In fact, he actually lands between the first set of jabs. So the question is: was Bowser potentially able to act out of that landing animation? If the answer is yes, then aside from the second set of jabs, none of those hits combo'd and Bowser would actually have been able to shield out of the first jab combo and counter. If the animation is not interruptable, then Bowser just ate a 5-hit combo entirely grounded.

The other, and arguably even more interesting thing is that Mario is able to perform his first two jabs repeatedly without having to jab-cancel. It looks like the window for continuing the jab combo is shorter than it was in Brawl, which is honestly probably a good thing.

Very, very interesting. This may be a high % only thing?

Either that or they really didn't combo at all.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Run-stop cancel/dash cancel- pivot cancel- and now this?
sounds good for ground and air combatants.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

If this is real, then what I said on the Captain Falcon VS newcomers thread is spot on! He of all peopel needs as little landing lag as possible. Hype!

Whatever it is, I hope it's not L-canceling in the shield button sense. Lag canceling with an attacking move is fine.

looks like it all was real...
i never had any reason to lie. thanks y'all for holding me down from the jump

 

[fabulouspants]

nothing you said was confirmed. the info zip released actually went against everything you said about landing lag so far. good try though, buddy.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

nothing you said was confirmed. the info zip released actually went against everything you said about landing lag so far. good try though, buddy.

Well actually, Zipzo did suggest that many aerial attacks actually have little-to-no landing lag. Falcon's NAir (I seem to recall Falcon actually landing after only performing the first kick at one point, and still being able to act seemingly immediately out of it), Falcon's BAir, seemingly Falcon's UAir. Sonic's FAir has a more generous auto-cancel window. Bowser's FAir and BAir both have auto-cancels.

And of course, Link's FAir at E3 had Melee L-cancel levels of endlag. (Like 5-7 frames in-game.)

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I guess you can say that the broad feeling of less landing lag was confirmed, which I think is what OP was suggesting anyways.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

nothing you said was confirmed. the info zip released actually went against everything you said about landing lag so far. good try though, buddy.

none of his info went against my OP
his post has only solidified my post and my experience.
i stated there is less lag.
i mentioned the holiness of the tilt
i included the pivot cancel and more.

my mistake at some point was using a wrong term because after reading my post views kept calling
this this and that. so it got confusing

 

[Dragonspiller]

Yeah! Now I can pummeled even harder on "For glory" mode!