CAN there be a Smash 6 after Ultimate?

[soviet prince]

They can't make another Smash with cuts. They just can't. It doesn't matter how they present it, people will be angry and disappointed.

the only problem with bringing everyone back again is the 3rd partys

 

[Sean Wheeler]

They probably could cut the third-parties so that people don't beg for characters like Shrek to be in and so that they don't have to keep negotiating with Konami, Sega, Square and Capcom to put their veterans in every game. But then, that would mean a lot of requested third-party characters that would be great for Smash would never make it in, and a lot of Cloud, Sonic, Bayonetta and Snake mains would be mad for their favorite characters getting cut. But if it would allow for more first-party characters that are heavily requested to get in and fighters from new games put in for marketing purposes, and if Waluigi, Krystal, Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Isaac, Waddle Dee, Skull Kid, Impa, Rex & Pyra, Dixie Kong, etc. join the roster and all the Nintendo-owned veterans including Pichu, Young Link, Toon Link, Incineroar, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, King K. Rool, etc. are safe from being cut, then it can still make a great game.

 

[Deleted member]

So Rob from Rule of 2 Review on youtube had an interesting theory for the future of Smash Bros.: crossovers a la Marvel vs. Capcom.

So, perhaps not ALL 3rd parties would be cut, but the next installment might be Super Smash Bros. vs. Soul Calibur/Capcom/Tekken/Sega and then it would sport a larger number of 3rd party characters from one company only, understood to be a kind of one-time crossover experience. That way it keeps 3rd party negotiations simpler than trying to juggle multiple contracts to keep all veterans returning. But, who knows.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

They can't make another Smash with cuts. They just can't. It doesn't matter how they present it, people will be angry and disappointed.

And they'll still buy it along with the casual fans and newcomers. And Nintendo knows that.

How well do you supposed Pokemon Let's go is doing, despite being everything hardcore the pokemon fan doesn't want? ( gen 1, friendly rival, no online, no wild battles, motion controls ) and I PROMISE you it's not just casuals buying the game.

You could apply this to any million Nintendo franchise that has recurring criticisms I'd wager.

We need to stop pretending angry hardcore fans mean significantly less sales for Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member]

And they'll still buy it along with the casual fans and newcomers. And Nintendo knows that.

How well do you supposed Pokemon Let's go is doing, despite being everything hardcore the pokemon fan doesn't want? ( gen 1, friendly rival, no online, no wild battles, motion controls ) and I PROMISE you it's not just casuals buying the game.

You could apply this to any million Nintendo franchise that has recurring criticisms I'd wager.

We need to stop pretending angry hardcore fans mean significantly less sales for Nintendo.

You can only fool angry hardcore fans once or twice though, then it does start to impact sales. Ok, maybe after like the third or fourth time. Sometimes fifth.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Yes their CAN be a Smash 6. Their can be _____ 6 of anything. But do I personally think it will happen? Maybe but I really feel Nintendo just goes the "platform" route and just port this game to the Switch 2 and just keep adding onto it. The 3rd party thing can be complicating though and honestly if all the 3rd parties got cut I wouldn't mind at all. That being said who knows how far away Smash 6 is we haven't even enjoyed Ultimate yet. If Smash 6 releases in like 2026 or something I doubt I'll be buying it honestly. I feel myself losing interest in videogames day by day and Ultimate is the ONLY game I've been THIS insanely hyped for since I was a kid.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think if they want to shake things up the previously mentioned in this thread and by other people Nintendo vs. Whoever is their best option.

Though of course, I don't think THAT game would exactly be Smash Bros and would be more of a typical fighting game. Especially if we did indeed get a Nintendo vs. Capcom or even something more crazy (Marvel Vs Nintendo would break the collective internet for example and I'd actually completely understand whatever needs to be done for THAT to happen).

But Smash has definitely hit a standard where it's going to be difficult to top Ultimate, and the route of adding new fan requested characters that didn't make it in wouldn't exactly work. More third parties could, but then you're obviously moving further and further away from the Nintendo history angle that helps make Smash unique...

I just don't see good options that don't involve just using Ultimate as a base. I don't think Smash will particularly benefit from future graphical upgrades and the engine already runs extremely well all things considered. Just what is really gained by a reset is my question? At best a more competitive and limited game that pleases a certain portion of the community and pisses off a majority. Sure, casual players are unlikely to care too much, but anybody who has played Smash before are going to lament the loss of certain characters. There's a reason the likes of Mewtwo, Roy, Snake, Ice Climbers, and Wolf got massive support after being cut. It's clear that people just don't like losing characters generally speaking, so again, I don't see a positive future with a reboot or a severely limited roster.


All of that said, I'm just glad we got one chance at a full roster again. I was always so sad to not have certain characters between games, and to finally have Ridley and King K Rool in that same game at least gives me basically my ideal Smash game. And I really hope they just continue adding on to Ultimate past the initial Fighter Pass... I'm just not sure they will when Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has been so ripe for further content additions and they've done absolutely nothing outside of extremely inconsequential updates and BOTW Link (Seriously when am I getting my Block Fort Battle map...) And Super Mario Odyssey hasn't done much better with only Luigi's Balloon World doing a good job of adding some substantial to the game.

 

[lucasla]

Around the core gameplay of the series, they can do a lot with singleplayer/cooperative modes and to evolve the multiplayer system of the game (adding a ranked system for example and dedicated servers).

Maybe the core gameplay of the series will keep the same forever, with small updates, but they can update character moves too and add a lot of content to the game in different areas.

I also think that for the next iteration of the series, they maybe will not be able to have all the characters of the actual roster, maybe because contractual reasons or any other reason.. But the core characters of Nintendo can always be there easily and for each character they remove, they can add others.

New stages, new characters, new modes, new campaign, a better and more complete stage builder, gameplay improvements, graphical updates, 8 Player Smash online... many things can be done...

This series is just like Counter Strike. It's eternal and can't change too much, it just must always be avaiable. It doesnt need a reboot, or be transformed in another style being reinvented as a Pokken Tournament/Tekken or Street Fighter game. It just needs to be avaiable and be updated for the new system.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Personally, instead of rebooting, I'd rather they keep making Smash the way it is, but make a Smash spinoff, or even a second crossover series without the Smash Bros branding. Could be another fighting game where they crossover with another company like Marvel Vs. Capcom, or maybe a new genre completely. A Kingdom Hearts style RPG, a racing game ( Mario Kart is already on it's way to being Nintendo Kart )... When they first revealed Amiibo, I thought it was leading up to a big crossover adventure game that required Amiibo to play, as Nintendo's answer to Disney Infinity. I know this would probably disgust people who don't want to buy Amiibo, but as someone who loves Amiibo, that's not my problem, and I was hoping that huge collection I've amassed over the years would have had a much bigger purpose than getting me relatively common items or new skins.

Smash, as it is, I don't feel like it needs to change very much. I think focusing on exciting single player modes would be enough for me. Smash keeps getting better and better, but it feels like single player kinda always makes one step forward and two steps back. The multiplayer and core mechanics are pretty much nailed imo. Feels like the well of potential for a platforming beat em up based on the worlds of Nintendo has largely gone untapped since SSE used mostly original enemies and locations.

 

[RileyXY1]

Due to licensing issues with third parties, we may never again have a Smash game of this scale.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

But the next Smash game could go back to it's roots of being Nintendo only. If licensing is the biggest problem, then restrict it to first-party characters only and cut the third-parties. Though sadly, it would mean players who main Sonic, Snake, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon and Richter won't be able to use them and the most requested third-party characters like Shadow, Tails, Sora, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Banjo-Kazooie, Steve, Shrek, Goku, Geno, etc. will never get in. But at least Waluigi, Krystal, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Saki, etc. can be in.

 

[AzureFlame4]

Of course a smash 6 is possible. Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 had way too many characters and they cut that down without sales going down too much as far as I know. The thing with Smash for me at least is if they at least have enough interesting uniquen newcomers it should be good. Stages will be weird though since I can't imagine them bringing back as many stages as before.

 

[JBRPG]

I have a bizarre theory on what could happen with the business model for the "Next Smash Bros Beyond Ultimate" and how it could affect the overall pipeline:

Before going into the theory of the business and content model of the next game, we should remember the following - Additional post-launch content development will be all finished by February 2020 with so far 6 additional newcomers and 5 stages plus new music planned, along with other hidden and small surprise addons. With various Nintendo games having Games as Service model with some free updates due to big initial price of the game $60+ per copy and purchase-able copies at reasonable prices, it seems to be working in favor of making more evergreen titles with a longer life span.

If assuming that no cuts are made to the characters, more content is added, and everything gets minor revisions and exaggerations; then a "free to play" business model (with more discount and less grinding options) might be a step to establish a new studio/team that is specific to the game titles, and that the lifespan of the post-launch development can last even longer up to 5 years or more. With that model, there will have to be new content added in rounds like seasons, and that would include deadlines to plan new characters, stages, etc, lock them up, and then solely focus on creating within constraints. Each new round would open up to negotiations at beginning phase with condition that no characters or any content shall ever be removed from the game upon agreement with participating parties and will opt in permanently (other words cannot opt out of participation during the entire lifespan).

If the free-to-play model applies and 3rd party content is sold, the majority stake of the sale would go to the 3rd party creator, as it would be the case with previous DLC from Smash 4 involving 3rd parties.


I wrote it because everyone else focused on the content, but rarely bother to take in the business model that can affect Next Smash Bros Beyond Ultimate.

 

[Veggi]

He implied it would be hard to ever include this many characters again. So I guess the next Smash game will go back to what they've been doing. They add some characters and they cut some, but with more emphasis on cutting.

As far as new features that would make the next game more appealing than Ultimate even though it has less characters: They could retool assist trophies to function more like assists in Marvel vs Capcom and then add the cut characters back as assists. The way they could work is the player selects an assist character, then instead of taunts the player can summon their assist to do a special move. If the assist takes enough damage, they are unusable for the rest of the stock.

This way, the game could feature even more fan service than Ultimate and you would be able to control an unbelievable amount of Nintendo characters. Just...you would only be able to use their special moves in addition to your regular character's full moveset.

For example:

Dixie:

Side Taunt: Does her hair twirl pirouette.
Down Taunt: Slams her hair back and forth like in TF.
Up Taunt: Gives the player an extra jump by carrying them upward.

Robin:

Side Taunt: El Fire
Down Taunt: Charges Thoron, then it's released the next time it's pressed.
Up Taunt: Flies through the air with El Wind.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

There will be another smash.
Just dont expect all the third parties to return.
If characters have to be cut, hopefully the clones and echos get the axe first.

 

[The DanMan051]

I do think "everyone is here", if anything, murders the chance of their being another Smash game anytime remotely soon. In away, from a business standpoint it feels almost ill-informed; it's just raising people's expectations and upping the ante even further, when next time around they'll likely have to heavily cut back.

But the next Smash game could go back to it's roots of being Nintendo only. If licensing is the biggest problem, then restrict it to first-party characters only and cut the third-parties. Though sadly, it would mean players who main Sonic, Snake, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon and Richter won't be able to use them and the most requested third-party characters like Shadow, Tails, Sora, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Banjo-Kazooie, Steve, Shrek, Goku, Geno, etc. will never get in. But at least Waluigi, Krystal, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Saki, etc. can be in.

That's not happening. 3rd party characters are far more in demand than 1st party ones at this point.

 

[Robin Lucina]

Maybe more DLC other than 5 DLC characters that will be released by 2019 Feb and many more play mode like online 3v3 will hold SSBU for many years. But I think there can be many ways to make SSB6 without any roster cuts. For example, from brawl to wiiu nothing big change happened only addition to roster. This time also changing all assist trophy into main character roster will be super effective way for the sales of SSB6.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I do think "everyone is here", if anything, murders the chance of their being another Smash game anytime remotely soon. In away, from a business standpoint it feels almost ill-informed; it's just raising people's expectations and upping the ante even further, when next time around they'll likely have to heavily cut back.


That's not happening. 3rd party characters are far more in demand than 1st party ones at this point.

What murders another Smash happening soon is the length of the Switch's lifespan (7-10 years), pluchow tired Sora Ltd. must be. As for 3rd parties, fan demand is irrelevant when licensing becomes an issue, and it has been. Not to mention how angry lots of people will be if a roster of 25-30 fighters has 4-5 third parties/guests taking up space. The only 3rd party character I see returning in Smash 6 is Sonic.

 

[The DanMan051]

What murders another Smash happening soon is the length of the Switch's lifespan (7-10 years), pluchow tired Sora Ltd. must be. As for 3rd parties, fan demand is irrelevant when licensing becomes an issue, and it has been. Not to mention how angry lots of people will be if a roster of 25-30 fighters has 4-5 third parties/guests taking up space. The only 3rd party character I see returning in Smash 6 is Sonic.

Ah, no. The community echo chamber probably will be for a bit, but people at large would far more heavily bemoan the loss of 3rd parties (heck, even within the community echo chamber Snake was by far the most heavily requested cut veteran from Brawl). 3rd parties are a gigantic part of the marketing for Smash; there's no way a reboot doesn't launch with multiple 3rd party characters, at least one of which is completely new.

 

[gramkracka22]

>do you think nintendo is going to drop one of the biggest franchises of all time?
Prepare for a new smash every nintendo console iteration until you are dead

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Ah, no. The community echo chamber probably will be for a bit, but people at large would far more heavily bemoan the loss of 3rd parties (heck, even within the community echo chamber Snake was by far the most heavily requested cut veteran from Brawl). 3rd parties are a gigantic part of the marketing for Smash; there's no way a reboot doesn't launch with multiple 3rd party characters, at least one of which is completely new.

Fans would miss the third-parties, but it would be impossible to have every requested character in. Practically every character in existence has been demanded to be in the roster. People want Goku in despite Sakurai needing to negotiate with a lot of companies for his inclusion like Shueisha, Funimation, Toei Animation, Bird Studios, etc. And there are companies like WayForward who are demanding their characters to be in Smash. And for every third-party, Nintendo would have to pay them royalties. Cloud Strife couldn't even get his English voice. In fact, Final Fantasy lacks so much in terms of music and spirits. Negotiating every third-party character back was the hardest part of making the roster. So it would be a lot easier on Nintendo if they stuck with first-party characters. Sure, there will be backlash, but there is already backlash for just about every possible newcomer that couldn't get in Ultimate. They can't please everyone. There will always be someone who would get disappointed that this character isn't in. And a good way for Sakurai to make the requests for the likes of Shrek to decline would be to state from the get go that there are no third-party content in the new Smash game, and that Sonic, Snake, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon and Richter have all been cut from the roster to focus on Nintendo IPs.

 

[o.o]

This game will be around for awhile with lots of DLC, and since the switch is so new.. but when nintendo sells their next console there will be another smash. They could always pull what they did with mario kart from Wii u and just revamp ultimate for the next console but that's likely going to be so far in the future I'd imagine they would be ready to make a new one

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Not to mention how angry lots of people will be if a roster of 25-30 fighters has 4-5 third parties/guests taking up space.

Um. What? Most people love third parties. The only fans I've seen be against them are the ones who would rather have niche, obscure first party characters most people don't actually care about such as Lip, Andy, Takamaru, and others. Third party characters have been a part of Smash for a decade. It feels absolutely silly to still complain about them.

 

[Chazam]

As long as there is a new Nintendo Console, there will be another Smash

However, that being said; Sakurai works on each game like it is his last and since Ultimate started development before Smash 3DS & Wii U ended that means he will be working on Smash for at least 9 years straight, because of DLC. (~2011-~2020) I would not surprise me at all if this is his last Smash, but only if he is able to let it go.

 

[smashingDoug]

I would like to see an upgraded port of ultimate.

 

[Robin Lucina]

I would like to see an upgraded port of ultimate.

How about changing all assist trophy into main characters?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Um. What? Most people love third parties. The only fans I've seen be against them are the ones who would rather have niche, obscure first party characters most people don't actually care about such as Lip, Andy, Takamaru, and others. Third party characters have been a part of Smash for a decade. It feels absolutely silly to still complain about them.

Define "Most people."
I never mentioned Lip, Andy or Takamaru. Those are awful comparisons to begin with. I can guarantee those three won't be in Smash anytime soon, they don't define first parties. A small roster of only 30 or so fighters will include mostly major first party icons and 1-2 guests (Sonic and Pac Man most likely), simply because it's not worth it to license so many IPs in a small game. And people are beginning to want to slow down the introduction of third parties, more than a quarter of Ultimate's newcomers (base game) have been third parties. Not to mention it feels awkward, almost disappointing, if you wanted a major first part character to get in when instead we got a third party, in a game designed to be a collaboration of popular Nintendo characters.

And I'm not complaining about third parties at all. I'm saying it's unlikely we'll have more than two.

 

[Deleted member]

So Ultimate looks to be amazing and absolutely the pinnacle of Smash games so far, but when watching footage of some of the Spirits battles, and taking into consideration the emphasis on echo fighters this time around, I couldn't help but wish that in the future, instead of "pretending" characters are other characters because of a PNG Spirit they have, that we just get more skins or echoes instead.

When you have such a huge roster, it actually kinda becomes less feasible to learn every character's moveset and be good with them. Even new and unique fighters sometimes have moves very similar to other fighters, just because sometimes there's only so many ways to swing a sword or kick someone, you know? Some fighters could simply be amalgamations to ease development and get more characters playable. Take Zero from Mega Man X; he could be based on Mega Man but then borrow sword moves from other fighters, and boom, new fighter. As a Daisy fan, I don't really care that her moveset is the same as Peach. I don't play Peach, but I'll play as Daisy, because I like that character. I don't really care what the moveset is so much as I want to play as my favorite characters. So there's definitely room to grow in a sequel.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Define "Most people."
I never mentioned Lip, Andy or Takamaru. Those are awful comparisons to begin with. I can guarantee those three won't be in Smash anytime soon, they don't define first parties. A small roster of only 30 or so fighters will include mostly major first party icons and 1-2 guests (Sonic and Pac Man most likely), simply because it's not worth it to license so many IPs in a small game. And people are beginning to want to slow down the introduction of third parties, more than a quarter of Ultimate's newcomers (base game) have been third parties. Not to mention it feels awkward, almost disappointing, if you wanted a major first part character to get in when instead we got a third party, in a game designed to be a collaboration of popular Nintendo characters.

And I'm not complaining about third parties at all. I'm saying it's unlikely we'll have more than two.

Ultimate only has three third-party newcomers. And with the veterans, the third-party characters only take up 13.5% of the roster. So the Smash Bros cast is 86% Nintendo. Nintendo still has the majority over the game.

 

[3D Dillon]

2019 is supposed to reveal a new Nintendo Switch. I know you don't like the idea of exclusives but a Deluxe version of Ultimate would probably require a more powerful Switch model.