CAN there be a Smash 6 after Ultimate?

[pap64]

This is something that has been in my mind ever since the game was properly announced at E3 this year; CAN there be a Smash 6 after Ultimate's lifespan is done and over with?

Obviously, should the game be a success in the competitive scene, it can continue to live on in the same manner as Melee has in the last 16 years, so there is no doubt that the game will continue to be played. But with Ultimate looking to be the most complete, polished version of Smash to date, how can they go higher than what Ultimate is already promising? The game will have every returning character, stage, item, Pokemon, assist trophies and more that has been featured in the last 20-plus years of Smash. In addition there will be brand new characters and content, many of them highly requested by fans. And so far it's looking like they will take the game seriously competitive wise and continue to patch it throughout its lifespan.

So, how can Smash 6 top that? Ultimate is already raising the bar when it comes to what we want out of a Smash games. What are your thoughts?

 

[Blue7113]

Sakurai has said that if here’s demand he’ll make another one. But if he does retire, I think the roster will downsize drastically and we’ll get a more simplistic but refined Smash. In the near future we’ll pribab get a lot of DLC since the Swicj is popular and Smash is a top seller

 

[Quillion]

We absolutely will get another Smash.

The only question is whether they should reboot the series and freshen the roster by revamping everyone's movesets, or continuously recycle Smash Ultimate's assets for new games until the end of time.

 

[Buzzwole]

I've said this before, but I'm positive it'll be a reboot of the series without Sakurai at the helm.
This feels like Sakurai's last big Smash game. It feels final.
The only place to go from here is back to the drawing board and starting over. You'd be surprised how many assets are still being used from Brawl even in Ultimate. Smash 6 will likely build everything from the ground up.

 

[CostLow]

As the others have said, it seems inevitable. The series is way too popular to just drop it. It's not as extreme a case but it would be like dropping Pokemon after Gen 6 just because the Switch is meant to replace the handheld market Pokemon dominates. Game Freak just adapted to meet the demand in whatever way it deemed necessary. The same will happen with Smash. It will likely be a nice long time between Smash Ultimate and Smash 6, but it will surely be a reimagined version of the game series without losing the core concepts (platform-based Nintendo-centric fighter).

 

[Ravioko]

There's no possible way this is the last Smash, it's way too big a money maker for that. I wouldn't even say it's Sakurai's last Smash considering every Smash since Melee was supposed to be his last.

However I do agree that "Smash 6" is going to have a fair amount of downsizing. Honestly I almost feel like the game is already a disappointment, because Ultimate is just that good looking.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

Not the final Smash Bros game, but definitely the last for a very long time. Nintendo has gone on record saying that they want the Switch to last for 10 years. We typically get one Smash per console. It's gonna be a while, to say the least. My hope is that Nintendo focuses more of their energy into continuously releasing content for Ultimate. Make it their flagship Smash game, and use it to both sell their online service and to sell DLC.

 

[Smash Lampjaw]

What Smash needs after this is a nice, long break. Long enough to make people care about a new one despite the seemingly inevitable downgrade. They'll need to come up with some new gimmicks to sell the next one if they hope to reach Ultimate's level of hype again. They'll have to let time chip away at it, and they'll have plenty of it. I think it'll be quite a while before people are ready to move over. I'm in no rush to see the end of the Switch's lifespan, I hope they keep it going as strong as they have been for a very long time.

I'd say smaller in scale will be their approach, but with a new focus. If Sakurai's stepping down for real and for true this time, the new lead might try to concentrate on different aspects of the entries themselves and build it more around Melee's competitive scene for a specific audience (oh look, we brought wavedashing back!), while acknowledging the casual players might never be convinced to leave Ultimate for it anyway. That's what I would plan for right now if I were them, because I don't know how else they're going to sell it as the eventual downgrade people are expecting it to be. Smash 6 is going to have to carry skepticism on its back for years, and they need to find a way to handle that efficiently.

I really do think watching what the competitive community says about Ultimate and building a new game to appeal to the audience who has felt left out since Melee, thus marketing it as such, is the way to go.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm getting the impression that Nintendo is really paying attention now.

I think this Smash game will continue to get content for several years, honestly. It is a great platform to keep introducing new material. And is possibly Nintendo's biggest DLC cash cow.

But I think in that same time frame, we could see Nintendo release more games with a collaborative roster. Not just Mario Kart, but perhaps more. Hell, even a spinoff or two of Smash by other creators. Possibly with different names.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The only question is whether they should reboot the series and freshen the roster by revamping everyone's movesets, or continuously recycle Smash Ultimate's assets for new games until the end of time.

I mean, it can be both.

You don't have to redo everyone entirely all at once. Changing a move or two each game would probably work best.

Except for Ganondorf. Finish decloning that *****. Then add Black Shadow with his old moveset.

 

[pap64]

Considering what you guys have said, I do think this Smash may be Sakurai's swan song as he seems to truly cram as much content into this version of Smash as well as include content that appeals to the fans, something Sakurai rarely does (not to say that Sakurai never cared for the fans, but he struck me as the man that did whatever he thought would work instead of what the fan base wanted).

So I can see this being Sakurai's last Smash game because he dedicated so much time to Smash and he has yet to work on something new. The last thing he did was the Kid Icarus reboot for the 3DS and I bet he wants to move on.

As for the series getting a reboot after Ultimate, I can see that happening as well. Many fighting game franchises have moved on even if the creators have retired from game development. The question is who would be director Sakurai would choose to helm the series. I hope that his time working with Namco Bandai has led him to create great ties and someone from that team can lead the team in Smash 6.

Nintendo is a company that cares deeply about its franchises and character/franchise integrity is vital to them so even if Sakurai retires for good they would fight hard to make sure Smash remains as high quality as it has been.

 

[lucasla]

There's always the possibility of making a new game for a new system, with better graphics, and updates on game modes, characters and stages.
I don't know if the online mode of Ultimate will be really complete, with a rank system, for example. If not, there's already a thing to evolve in a sequence.
For the Switch there's no necessity at all of a new game. They can just add content with updates, free or not.
But for the future, well, I want my kids playing Smash 20 years from now, and I suppose we can get a new game after some time.

 

[CostLow]

Well, if Smash Ultimate is the last title for ten years I'll be in my 40s before a new game comes out. I'll probably end up keeping this one for life (or until it completely craps out on me) in that case. I really look forward to seeing what happens down the line for Smash though. I was there in the beginning of Smash 64 with that horrible commercial they came out with it, and that amazing opening with the characters coming to life from plushies in a kid's room. My daughters won't be old enough to remember when Smash Ultimate came out but they'll probably be close to the age I was when the original was released. It will be like a cycle of life moment for video games in my family.

I was also old enough by that time to have played the original NES and Gameboy, so Duck Hunt and that horrendous DK stage were like a trip down memory lane for me. I played with ROB and have tried out a couple Game and Watch games, along with the old Ice Climbers and Punch Out. It doesn't always seem like this game is meant for someone my age but then Sakurai turns around and comes up with something that clearly was meant as a shout out to us 80s and 90s kids. I think that's a big part of why Smash Bros is my favorite game series. I mean, arcades are a dying race themselves, and I played some of these games when they were just in Arcades (here's looking at you Pac-Man).

Hopefully Smash Bros never loses sight of this multi-generational thing it's got going for it.

 

[Dee Dude]

There’s no way Smash is ending after Ultimate, it’s way too successful as a series and Sakurai is fully capable of making more installments if he wants to.

That said, he deserves a vacation after this since this is basically the hardest and most dedicated Smash he’s worked on because of how much love and fanservice is put into it.

Perhaps Ultimate’s title and premise gives off the impression it’ll be the last but I highly doubt it, it’s basically in a sense a celebration of the series as whole.

If Sakurai steps down or at least takes a long break from it, I wouldn’t mind seeing another director taking a shot at Smash 6 But Sakurai himself is a workaholic who enjoys his series so I doubt he’ll leave anytime soon unless we outright want him to.

That said, I’m definitely in for more Smash games, Ultimate has done plenty of awesome things and improvements but there’s plenty more they could step up and try out for the future so bring it!

After all, Waluigi needs his chance eventually.

 

[Crystanium]

Can there be? Sure. Will there be? That's a different question. I think there will be, but I don't expect Sakurai to be part of it. Of course, that's entirely his choice. Whatever the case may be, from what I've heard, there was one of two choices to be made for SSBU. Start over or continue from the pre-existing model. The latter occurred. This means the next SSB will have a reduced roster, which I'm all for. I have several concerns, though.

1. Will one series be over-represented?
2. Will most of the roster consist of a protagonist and antagonist?

It's clear that the current roster over-represents the Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem franchises. The Legend of Zelda is moving up on that list as well. Consider the following.

Mario: (13)
Pokémon: (6+3)
Fire Emblem: ultcorrin: (7)
Zelda: (6)

My opinion on reducing the roster, as well as how many characters should be represented per series is not popular, of course. Some might even complain that my list of Mario characters is exaggerated, since Donkey Kong, Wario, and Yoshi have their own games. It's not an exaggeration. Jumpman starred in Donkey Kong in 1981. Mario Bros. was released in 1983. Mario is technically part of the Donkey Kong series. He may have branched off, but he's still part of that series. Yoshi first debuted in Super Mario World. Wario first debuted in Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins. I would know. I have those games and played them as a child. (I still have that clunky hand-held device called the Game Boy).

Reducing the Mario series so that Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong weren't part of it, you'd still have 8 characters, which is still more than the other franchises listed below it. I don't know the validity, but I heard that if there is another SSB, it'll have only a third of the roster. This is why I'm concerned. Will most of that roster consist mostly of Mario characters? This would be completely unfair to other popular series', and it'd be detrimental to the series itself. It'd essentially be another Super Mario game, which could be dubbed "Super Mario Fighters" by that point. If the roster is reduced to a third of its current size (73), then the roster I'd hope for would look something like this, assuming the maximum representation was 3.















Pokémon
I know Pikachu is popular, as is Mewtwo, which is why I have it listed that way. The truth of the matter is that you cannot introduce every Pokémon into SSB without having a massive roster. Mewtwo is described as cold, vicious, and savage, so ignoring the first Pokémon movie where he becomes a softie, I thought it'd still make sense for Mewtwo to remain, since he could be a representative of an antagonist. This mean any Pokémon aside from Pikachu could be a protagonist.

F-Zero
Captain Falcon has been under-represented for a very long time. There isn't any other character from his series, so if I could add an antagonist, I'd probably go with Black Shadow. That, or unfortunately cut him from the roster, since there hasn't been an F-Zero game since 2003.

Mother
As for the Mother series, I doubt we'd get Giygas, and Porky Minch has been in both Mother 2 and 3. He could be an antagonist. Or, just like F-Zero, the characters could be removed.

Fire Emblem
So, people have complained about how the Fire Emblem roster only has sword characters. Marth is the first protagonist of the Fire Emblem series, but why not also introduce Jagen, who guides Marth? Not to mention, from the picture of Jagen, he wields a spear. Then there's the antagonist Medeus.

Kid Icarus
I was thinking that instead of Dark Pit, Medusa or Hades could be added as an antagonist.

Pikmin
Plasm Wraith could be introduced as an antagonist. I'm not sure what Alph does that's different from Olimar, and if there isn't anything too different, then he could remain as a color palette.

Splatoon
Octolings are enemies of Inklings, so why not introduce an Octoling?

Having said all that, my roster would have 35 characters total, not including new characters who could be added, either by unlocking them or receiving them from DLC. I can do without DLC. If the roster was to be kept at 40 characters minimum, then 5 additional characters could be added. Of course, my roster would have already included 8 new characters.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

If Nintendo made any significant cuts to the roster, I have a feeling it would significantly impact sales. Sakurai wasn't kidding when he said that he opened pandora's box by including every single character.

 

[Smash Lampjaw]

I think it's an unwritten rule that the original 12 are safe from cuts. Just about everyone else is probably considered expendable if technical limitations prevent their inclusion in future titles. The Ice Climbers incident, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if they start every development cycle with those characters and just work their way out. I highly doubt we'll lose Cap.

But seriously, Nintendo. F-Zero. Come on, now.

 

[aarchak]

It would be hard to make a new Smash game after this at all, but Nintendo would still do it. While it feels like the only way for them to go is a reboot, it may not be the case. They may just go a different route and add as many characters back to the game as they can. I would predict they would have a cast of around 50, and draw from as many series as they can, even their more obscure ones. They would bring characters from all sorts of series from the popular ones like Mario and Pokemon to the rare ones like Ice Climbers and Golden Sun to the new ones like Splatoon and ARMS. Each series would get anywhere from 2 - 5 reps, depending on its importance.

In short, I doubt Nintendo would just gut their roster for a reboot.

 

[Bootortle]

No, but there can be a smash 7

 

[Sean Wheeler]

A game after Ultimate could happen. And if they could fit everything from all the Smash games, that would be great. But Nintendo could decide to cut the third-party characters to make room for Nintendo characters, which may get backlash from the people who main third-party characters or want new third-party characters, but for other people, that could put Smash's focus back on track. But I would personally want a few third-party characters in Smash 6. And the way Ultimate included every veteran was the best way to please Smash players. And if the next Nintendo console could hold up to 1 TB of data and the game would have enough room to double the amount of characters and stages so that not only would everyone be here but everywhere and everything could be there, that could surpass Ultimate.

 

[aarchak]

A game after Ultimate could happen. And if they could fit everything from all the Smash games, that would be great. But Nintendo could decide to cut the third-party characters to make room for Nintendo characters, which may get backlash from the people who main third-party characters or want new third-party characters, but for other people, that could put Smash's focus back on track. But I would personally want a few third-party characters in Smash 6. And the way Ultimate included every veteran was the best way to please Smash players. And if the next Nintendo console could hold up to 1 TB of data and the game would have enough room to double the amount of characters and stages so that not only would everyone be here but everywhere and everything could be there, that could surpass Ultimate.

The tagline wouldn't be "Everyone is here!", it would be, "Everything is here!" and bring back every character, stage, item, and mode, including SSE, Smash Run, Smash Tour, Adventure Mode, and more. The wireframe fighters would return too, along with every single type of smash, from coin to that weird point mode from Melee.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

And all the Assist Trophies and Poké Balls could return, including ones who have already been promoted to playable fighter, and they can show a Little Mac player summon the Little Mac Assist Trophy to say that Assist Trophies don't end chances. And custom movesets could return to allow players to give their characters their old movesets. All costumes from past Smash games would be available and there would be no longer a 8-skin limit.

 

[Archimedes]

As many people said before, ive been saying that with the release of every new game. "How can they top that" the answer is, they will and they have. In one way or another. I dont think Ultimate's lifespan will be as short as Smash 4's but there will 100% be a smash 6.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sure there will be a new Smash. If Sakurai quits the franchise, Ultimate will be the literal ultimate template they'll have to live up to. And I can easily see them building a engine of it's engine, adding a few newcomers, and whatever cut character could potentially be brought back through DLC eventually. I doubt a new director would be able to seal the deal for a lot of the 3rd party characters however! So I think that those are most likely to be cut the earliest, especially the likes of Cloud, Snake and the Belmonts.

I also don't think a new director would prioritise the 'oddball choices' of Smash as ; Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, maybe the MOTHER boys, maybe Captain Falcon, lots of the Echo Fightes, R.O.B., Mr.Game & Watch, Mii Fighters, Pichu, Pokemon Trainer, Dr.Mario, a few Fire Emblem characters deemed irrelevant by that time, Shulk.. maybe Rosalina due to her being hard to program with the Luma, Jigglypuff? Sheik, definitely her too... So yeah. Basically half the roster would have a good chance to be chopped, and maybe only the most popular ones can be brought back through DLC or something.

 

[soviet prince]

I prefer them to just port this over with few more newcomers

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I don't think this is anywhere near to being the end of the Smash franchise.

That said, we have no idea when the next game release or even begin development. With the way Ultimate is shaping up with the full cast of all past veterans and almost all of it's newcomers being characters who've been highly demanded and beloved by fans, it'll likely keep the majority of the fanbase satisfied for a long time to come.

And the next installment will have quite a lot to live up to.

 

[SvartWolf]

If we are getting DLC, i HONESTLY want this game to be ported to the next console and say, have a 12 years cycle...

I feel the only possible smash after this one would end being a reboot, something that reinvents teh formula (like big objective based maps, and teams, something totally different.) but just releasing another smash with a couple of newcomers and several cuts will be though to sell.. specially if they want to cut it's life cicle early and haven't accumulated enough years to have a bunch of exciting newcomers.

 

[Smash Lampjaw]

I prefer them to just port this over with few more newcomers

All things considered, this might just be the best option.

However, it also means they'll have to chase all the licenses again to re-release the game, and I can't say if it'll be possible to get them back for some characters by that point, or if Nintendo's even willing to try. Replacing the ones they might have to cut for legal reasons with newcomers could certainly work, but I think it would lead to enough changes to justify a new entry altogether by that point.

In theory, that could still add up to an overall bigger roster than Ultimate if they look for rights elsewhere, or add a bunch of first-parties, so maybe it won't be as limited as we're expecting after all. It just might not be everybody we have now making the cut again.

That being said, I'm going to change my answer from an earlier post. Ultimate's priority was mainly to get everyone back, and I think the resulting massive roster was more of a happy side effect rather than the goal itself. They could still add more newcomer slots next time at the expense of cutting some external characters, I hadn't thought of it that way.

Sakurai said we're unlikely to get all of these specific characters back in one game like this again. He didn't say an equal or larger roster overall next time was out of the cards. I think people, myself included, were quick to accidentally take that to mean the same thing when they might not necessarily be related.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

A port with a few newcomers a la Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is the only way I can see Nintendo walking away without the fans rioting and sales tanking. Seriously, changing the physics from Melee to Brawl created a massive schism in the community. I don't even want to imagine what a reboot would do.

 

[Mona Pizza]

I too have been mulling this over as more and more details about the size and scope of Ultimate continue to be released. It's hard to shake off the notion that this could very well be the last Smash game with Sakurai at the helm, when you consider he is clearly going above and beyond to give fans a game worthy of this iteration's title.

Whether or not as others have mentioned, the eventuality of a Smash 6 comes down to a reboot with a reduced roster or a port with the addition of a few newcomers, I think the issue of licensing could be a big factor in that decision. Does Nintendo maintain the current roster size and re-request all necessary licenses or do you cut all third-party characters out while adding in more first party characters to preserve roster size and negate legal licensing hassle?

I think any perceived downgrade of a new Smash game has the potential to backfire badly. Possibly the only way to counter that is to ensure Ultimate has as long a lifespan as is possible. Any way you look at it, I don't envy Nintendo the decision making process.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I can imagine them cutting all the third-party content out to not deal with licensing issues and to please some Nintendo purists who fear Smash is getting diluted with third-party characters and to stop people from expecting characters like Goku and Sora or anyone that the Smash fandom believe shouldn't be in Smash. But that could anger some people who main Sonic and Cloud and restricting to first-party probably wouldn't go so well unless the most requested Nintendo characters like Waluigi and Krystal could get in.

 

[Crystanium]

It seems a few have replied to me indirectly. The thing about losing characters and upsetting people is something Sakurai takes into consideration. I don't think it's a good idea, however, especially in a competitive scene. Consider the fact that there has only been four tier lists so far for SSB4. This is fewer than previous titles. It could be argued that such is the case, due to the announcement of SSBU, leaving SSB4 with less time. I don't think that's a legitimate argument, though, since two tier lists came out for both 2016 and 2017. Not only that, but it appears that not every character has a complete match-up chart. With so many characters, this potentially also sets average and poor characters for failure from the onset.

Sakurai probably doesn't care about this, since his philosophy caters to casual players. It's only been recent that he's tried catering to the competitive fanbase. As much as people want to see new characters introduced, I still think my point stands regarding the over-representation of Mario, Pokémon, Fire Emblem, and Zelda. With this over-representation, there isn't room for other franchises. Or, it might be said there are, unless the plan is to cut the roster down. The roster is already close to 100 characters. How many more characters must be added before one says, "All right, there's way too many"?

 

[LokiTheFlameshied]

There can/will be. I don't get why people think that this will be the last Smash Bros.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

We'll probably keep playing Ultimate for a while. And maybe the next Smash game could add more Kirby, Kid Icarus, Metroid and F-Zero characters. And if they are still doing third-party characters, I wouldn't mind a few more Sonic characters. But we'll see. The console after the Switch should be able to handle more data.

 

[Smash Lampjaw]

I'm curious what some are picturing when they bring up the possibility of a Smash reboot as a negative. Doesn't every game technically count as a reboot? 64 doesn't play like Melee, Melee certainly doesn't play like Brawl, Brawl has similarities but ultimately differs from Smash 4 in most aspects, and I'm expecting Ultimate to feel just as new as every game has so far. That's why I main a different character in every title, each entry changes so much of what I'm used to that I become more comfortable playing each game in completely different ways. Not everyone shares my curse (blessing?) in that regard, but even if you main the same character across the board, there's always a learning curve while you explore their buffs/nerfs/additions in every title, etc., and sometimes it's drastic. Some characters just become unplayable to certain people when they were easy mains in previous entries, and I know incredibly talented Bowser mains in Smash 4 who would've scoffed at the idea up to that point. We're used to seeing characters added and cut, and as of Ultimate we're warming to the idea of cut characters being added further down the line, so character consistency isn't it. I have no qualms about losing Link in Ultimate, for example, if his new style doesn't fit me as well anymore because I'm so used to finding a better match in every entry anyway. I'm even looking forward to being tied to a character I wouldn't have expected again, that's exciting.

There isn't much of a canon between games, if any, and unless the next console includes some ridiculous gimmick that fundamentally changes the core of Smash to something it has no business being (it won't suddenly be PlayStation All-Stars out of the blue, at least I certainly hope Nintendo wouldn't change it to that degree), it'll likely be about as different as every release has been so far. Smash is constantly re-inventing itself, so wouldn't every game qualify as a reboot, at least to some degree?

tl;dr I'm just curious what it is that scares people about the idea of "rebooting" Smash when every release so far has essentially rebuilt its own foundation, and prides itself on that. I feel like I'm missing something.

 

[Grevmak]

As long as it makes money, it will be made.

Maybe we'll get a soft reboot as was discussed earlier with a more...Sane roster that isn't 200 fighters and 9000 stages - which I am a huge fan of, not dissing Ultimate here - as the developement cost for Smash Ultimate must either be crazy high, or Nintendo are mad people who work 28 hours a day and use negative sleep to bend space time.

Sakurai also said himself: As long as people want and buy the games, he will make Smash games.

Which means, when I'm 80 years old they'll announce more Smash. And I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Black Magician]

Definitely not the last in the series, but possibly the last with Sakurai. I'm pretty sure he originally intended to leave after Brawl. Maybe that's why he seems to be trying to include long-requested characters like Ridley and K. Rool this time - if it's going to be his last one, he wants to go out with a bang.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

I'm with the sentiment that the Smash Bros. after Ultimate will be completely different from anything that came before. In fact, it wouldn't even be the same game we know. The basic concept will be the same, but the gameplay, controls, roster, among others will be completely reworked from top to bottom. So think of the next game as giving Smash the BotW treatment.

 

[soviet prince]

It seems a few have replied to me indirectly. The thing about losing characters and upsetting people is something Sakurai takes into consideration. I don't think it's a good idea, however, especially in a competitive scene. Consider the fact that there has only been four tier lists so far for SSB4. This is fewer than previous titles. It could be argued that such is the case, due to the announcement of SSBU, leaving SSB4 with less time. I don't think that's a legitimate argument, though, since two tier lists came out for both 2016 and 2017. Not only that, but it appears that not every character has a complete match-up chart. With so many characters, this potentially also sets average and poor characters for failure from the onset.

Sakurai probably doesn't care about this, since his philosophy caters to casual players. It's only been recent that he's tried catering to the competitive fanbase. As much as people want to see new characters introduced, I still think my point stands regarding the over-representation of Mario, Pokémon, Fire Emblem, and Zelda. With this over-representation, there isn't room for other franchises. Or, it might be said there are, unless the plan is to cut the roster down. The roster is already close to 100 characters. How many more characters must be added before one says, "All right, there's way too many"?

Mario and pokemon cant be over reped

 

[PeridotGX]

I think it'd be possible to do a reboot that doesn't feel too "empty". The easiest option is overhauling the veterans. ,,,,, and more could have a full overhaul, basically becoming newcomers. The remaining ones that probably can't have a 100% overhaul like ,,, etc could just swap out a few moves to feel more unique. They could also "swap out" characters, like "What if we had chose Michaiah and Garchomp in Brawl instead of and ?".