Can Brawl+ Succeed?

[Ryan-K]

I'm disappointed that the Melee community is making dumb judgements on brawl plus.

Yes, it has its problems. Well guess what? Brawl+ has been worked on for a few months. Most games take more than that. Be patient guys, and yes, as of now, Melee>Brawl+. But that doesn't mean you should be making false judgements

false judgments?

I played it already and it's still ***

 

[metaXzero]

false judgments?

I played it already and it's still ***

The kinks are still being worked out. Give it time.

Also, I don't know. I don't trust your statements about Olimar, MK, and ROB. (I'm weird like that).

 

[jugfingers]

No one cares because if we want more hitstun we'll play Melee.(which we do)

mmmm ****.

 

[Oracle]

i played it and it still sucks

hitstun code makes ******** characters such as mk and olimar more ********

the game is still floaty as **** and really slow

it is still supeeeeeeeeer campy because shieldstun is still super low and has dumb mechanics

there are still dumb characters like olimar and rob

a majority of the stages still suck ***

brawl+ forces you to tech, which allows you to either jab or tilt lock with a ****load of characters which quite frankly is just ********

tech chasing is a joke because the techs are slow and ****ty as ***

still auto recover/DI

so no

just take out tripping and put in the l cancel hack, there is no way to fix the game beyond that unless you were to totally overhaul it from the ground up

But yeah, melee will probably always be better. Brawl+ i think will do well, but will still not be as good as melee.

 

[Ryan-K]

yeah im trolling because gasp my opinion differs from yours!!!

i really did play it

meta can do dthrow nair if they dont tech it leads to dtilt lock on alot of characters at low percent. his up b also has RIDICULOUs stun when it hits now because hitstun code multiplies, and it already had good stun for brawl

olimar can combo EXTREMELY well off of his already ******** grabs

rob can do dumb juggles and combos with his up b and his edgeguard is dumb because of how ridiculous his bair hitbox is

falco can do ridiculous things with his dair that can now legitamately combo



maybe you should stop assuming everyone who doesn't automatically ride your **** is a troll

 

[metaXzero]

^Those don't sound like they make the game suck more. It just sounds like you hate those characters. Were those done against people though?

I assume you can't produce vids for w/e reason...

And he called you a troll due to the way you stated your opinion. Basically the constant swearing and the insignificant things (Stages? ROB and Olimar being gay?) that you complained about.

 

[MuBa]

For the jab and tilt locks you're suppose to tech and DI away from them =\

At first I was like O_O when I thought I could do Snake's ftilt and Zamus's Dsmash lock until I tested that they are DIable.

Right now we have the modifier for hitstun and we've also requested a code to add some momentum to make dash dancing and combing better. Once we get those then we'll set the hitstun to the appropriate amount that'll prevent any broken 0-death combos from being made.

 

[Ryan-K]

^Those don't sound like they make the game suck more. It just sounds like you hate those characters. Were those done against people though?

I assume you can't produce vids for w/e reason...

And he called you a troll due to the way you stated your opinion. Basically the constant swearing and the insignificant things (Stages? ROB and Olimar being gay?) that you complained about.

yeah they were

uh no i cant produce vids but playing the game for more than 5 minutes you should figure it out i mean come on its the most obvious thing lol

i used mostly olimar and mk when i played hacked brawl even though we used mostly everyone

insignificant? having a majority of the stages unusable for competition is pretty big, melee had alot of bad ones but brawl is just a killer.

making already stupidly good characters better is a dumb idea, so uh how is that not valid?

just because you don't like swearing doesn't give you an excuse to just blow off my arguments despite not being able to refute them

muba uh lol? snakes ftilt leaves you in place, you can shield it before he can hit you again, hwo can you DI a move that sends you nowhere -_-

zss dsmash is the same, the lock only works on like fox/falco because they fall right into it

you can tech whatever leads into locks but a majority of the characters tech like pichu in melee in that they go nowhere and they roll ludicrously slow

also mk dthrow nair dtilt dtilt can somehow trip you before you get to tech and sometimes you get knocked down

olimar can do dthrow usmash uair uair on a majority of characters for what is usually a guaranteed 50-60% and then he continues doing what hes always been doing, camp grabs

 

[metaXzero]

yeah they were

uh no i cant produce vids but playing the game for more than 5 minutes you should figure it out i mean come on its the most obvious thing lol

i used mostly olimar and mk when i played hacked brawl even though we used mostly everyone

insignificant? having a majority of the stages unusable for competition is pretty big, melee had alot of bad ones but brawl is just a killer.

making already stupidly good characters better is a dumb idea, so uh how is that not valid?

just because you don't like swearing doesn't give you an excuse to just blow off my arguments despite not being able to refute them

muba uh lol? snakes ftilt leaves you in place, you can shield it before he can hit you again, hwo can you DI a move that sends you nowhere -_-

zss dsmash is the same, the lock only works on like fox/falco because they fall right into it

you can tech whatever leads into locks but a majority of the characters tech like pichu in melee in that they go nowhere and they roll ludicrously slow

also mk dthrow nair dtilt dtilt can somehow trip you before you get to tech and sometimes you get knocked down

olimar can do dthrow usmash uair uair on a majority of characters for what is usually a guaranteed 50-60% and then he continues doing what hes always been doing, camp grabs

When most of the matches are going to be on BF, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, FD, PKS1 and other neutrals due to preference, it doesn't matter. Plus, what are counterpicks for? (Unless they recently made a drastic change to the ruleset).

Wavedash and L-cancel helped make "stupidly good" characters like Marth/Fox/Falco/Sheik better, but it also buffed the lesser characters in Melee. Same will go for Brawl+.

And my other post wasn't a post of refutation of your points. It was simply saying that you DID come off as a Brawl hater trolling this misplaced thread.

 

[Ryan-K]

When most of the matches are going to be on BF, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, FD, PKS1 and other neutrals due to preference, it doesn't matter. Plus, what are counterpicks for? (Unless they recently made a drastic change to the ruleset).

Wavedash and L-cancel helped make "stupidly good" characters like Marth/Fox/Falco/Sheik better, but it also buffed the lesser characters in Melee. Same will go for Brawl+.

And my other post wasn't a post of refutation of your points. It was simply saying that you DID come off as a Brawl hater trolling this misplaced thread.

LOL are you serious it doesn't matter?

It sure as hell does, peach wouldn't be able to beat fox without brinstar/mute city, counterpicks are an extremely important part of the game.

Top 4 doesn't get as significant a boost as the lower tier in melee does. Sheik would still chaingrab everyone to hell, falco would just laser camp, fox would laser camp into uthrow combos, marth would just dash camp with grabs and use his (now unpunishable due to no wd out of shield) range to **** everyone. ganon wouldn't be able to touch anyone due to his lag, without wd noone would be able to punish marth, top 4 doesn't care about l cancel/wavedash as much as the lower tiers does.

l cancel helps other characters a bit but they still suck because their moves will always be unsafe because of lack of shield stun/lack of range/priority/whatever. those characters will still have ****ty recoveries, they will still get chaingrabbed. just because they can do like 3 hits on a row on meta doesn't make up for the fact that the top characters **** even more

how the hell did it look like i was trolling, i didn't know trolling involved stating valid reasons for hating something.

 

[kupo15]

also mk dthrow nair dtilt dtilt can somehow trip you before you get to tech and sometimes you get knocked down

Im sorry but no. You should not be using CPU's as the basis of your argument because it makes you look stupid. DI down & away and tech the Dthrow and the combo ends there. Period.

And yea, if you decide to modify the stun length to be even longer than 64, you are going to get ridiculous inescapable combos...what do you expect? Do you honestly think that we found the perfect length of hitstun the day it came out? Do you know how many possible stun times there are and how much testing needs to be done to find the perfect stun time?

 

[Ryan-K]

wow way to read you ****ing ******, this wasn't done on a cpu, it was done on a human

dash sh nair works on an assload of characters, only a few characters can DI away so they can tech without getting hit

not being able to read aside from what you pick and choose is what really makes you look like a ****ing ****** and you are doing a pretty good job so keep at it trooper

i used the existing hitstun code that isn't more than 64, just the way brawl physics work with it is ********

but hey don't let facts and the fact that you most likely never played get in your way of making baseless assumptions, just continue making your community look ******** and then wonder why noone respects you ****ing idiots

 

[MuBa]

superryan rest assured we'll find a way to fix up these broken locks and combos.

 

[Ryan-K]

i think you should fix the illiterate ******* in your community first

 

[kupo15]

wow way to read you ****ing ******, this wasn't done on a cpu, it was done on a human

dash sh nair works on an assload of characters, only a few characters can DI away so they can tech without getting hit

not being able to read aside from what you pick and choose is what really makes you look like a ****ing ****** and you are doing a pretty good job so keep at it trooper

i used the existing hitstun code that isn't more than 64, just the way brawl physics work with it is ********

but hey don't let facts and the fact that you most likely never played get in your way of making baseless assumptions, just continue making your community look ******** and then wonder why noone respects you ****ing idiots

lol, if your friend gets comboed after a MK dthrow, he must be horrible at DI...

i think you should fix the illiterate ******* in your community first

lol So I am an illiterate ****** when I read you posting a combo that ends after the move that starts it? Like you just posted this combo and said "now i thought mention that mk is better because of this combo that I can do now with hacked brawl"

Who is the ****** who thinks that MK can combo after his Dthrow with the Nair of all moves?

 

[Tee ay eye]

more like 64->melee
and brawl shouldnt really be considered a part of the series

LOL I remember one guy was like "They need to make a third smash game." We were like, "What about Brawl?", and he said, "**** that. That isn't smash!"

 

[KosukeKGA]

lol, if your friend gets comboed after a MK dthrow, he must be horrible at DI...



lol So I am an illiterate ****** when I read you posting a combo that ends after the move that starts it? Like you just posted this combo and said "now i thought mention that mk is better because of this combo that I can do now with hacked brawl"

Who is the ****** who thinks that MK can combo after his Dthrow with the Nair of all moves?

Um, I think it's pretty obvious he means to wait for the air dodge and then hit them right after. Meta Knight's D-Throw sends you in an upward direction perfect for the Nair. You're making it sound like it isn't possible at all...

And it should also be obvious that he wouldn't say these things tested on a COM...I think Melee players know what they are talking about since they still dominate the Brawl scene.

 

[x Mackadotious]

I think it will be less of an issue of it being a hacked game, and more of "How many people in this area have hacked wii's?"

 

[KosukeKGA]

You're right.

It won't succeed anyway. It's a pointless futile attempt that will never be accepted by the majority. The players who want Brawl+ to be a standard are a great minority.

 

[kupo15]

Um, I think it's pretty obvious he means to wait for the air dodge and then hit them right after. Meta Knight's D-Throw sends you in an upward direction perfect for the Nair. You're making it sound like it isn't possible at all...

And it should also be obvious that he wouldn't say these things tested on a COM...I think Melee players know what they are talking about since they still dominate the Brawl scene.

Thats because if you can DI correctly, it is impossible. DI is so powerful that you cant even connect a dash attack after a dthrow and I believe MK has the fastest dash attack in the game. I didn't mean to insult him like that but him saying that hitstun makes mk more broken because of a combo that doesn't exist was funny. If you DI down and away, you can tech which makes following up after a Dthrow impossible.

I assumed he was using a CPU because CPU's cant avoid that combo. And there is no "waiting for and air dodge" as much especially when they are so close to the ground due to hitstun. And now everyone can play with a different hitstun setting so its kinda hard to prove anything without providing your the code segment and combo that would actually be feasible with hitstun...

You're right.

It won't succeed anyway. It's a pointless futile attempt that will never be accepted by the majority. The players who want Brawl+ to be a standard are a great minority.

I know for me, I just want a competitive brawl. There are side tourneys where you can earn money with it, but im just as ok with using MK for normal brawl tourneys

 

[KosukeKGA]

...Doesn't Meta Knight in tourneys ever get boring? Brawl is essentially the same thing over and over...I mean, you should try something else. Like Melee.

Just pop in the Melee disc and try it...Seriously.

I've never understood why Brawl players keep going back for more to get whooped again and again by some top Melee player who uses Meta Knight, Snake, or Dedede. Being good in Brawl or getting a good tourney placing for it is quite laughable and really has no value in it.
---
And you can follow up a tech, Kupo. It's called a tech chase. You would know that if you played Melee. Just saying.

 

[kupo15]

haha, its just different. You should really try out brawl+. Its really starting to get more competitive and shield stun will take it to the next level. I love melee and I love brawl+ But if you don't want to, ok.

Here are some combo things maybe you should check out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEgnGTG68gc&feature=email
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofEMN4eK-ss&watch_response

PS: CF is actually good now! Dont know if that will make you attempt it haha ^_^

 

[Naucitos]

...Doesn't Meta Knight in tourneys ever get boring? Brawl is essentially the same thing over and over...I mean, you should try something else. Like Melee.

Just pop in the Melee disc and try it...Seriously.

I've never understood why Brawl players keep going back for more to get whooped again and again by some top Melee player who uses Meta Knight, Snake, or Dedede. Being good in Brawl or getting a good tourney placing for it is quite laughable and really has no value in it.
---
And you can follow up a tech, Kupo. It's called a tech chase. You would know that if you played Melee. Just saying.

I really don't even understand this post.
You're saying that tourneys are laughable, why, exactly? Because its a simpler game? because melee vets are still winning? What exactly is 'value', i'm assuming by value you don't mean 'Money'. Fun fact, competitive tournaments are actually for money, thats the main reason they are competitive, money motivates people more than mere reputation.

I'm honestly disgusted by the amount of pointless biased hate on this board, its worse than all the ban threads on brawl

 

[Zodiac]

No, it wont,to many scrubs will whine about it.

 

[metaXzero]

haha, its just different. You should really try out brawl+. Its really starting to get more competitive and shield stun will take it to the next level. I love melee and I love brawl+ But if you don't want to, ok.

Here are some combo things maybe you should check out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEgnGTG68gc&feature=email
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofEMN4eK-ss&watch_response

PS: CF is actually good now! Dont know if that will make you attempt it haha ^_^

Thank gawd for DI lol.

Are you making another one for the new hitstun hack?

 

[Dark Sonic]

I thought Brawl+ was actually pretty good.

And why are people complaining that characters can combo now? I kinda thought that was the whole point of hitstun in the first place?

It would never become a solid competitive standard though, because that would basically be asking everyone to hack their Wiis if they ever want to go to a tournament (or even practice for a tournament for that matter).

 

[Oracle]

haha, its just different. You should really try out brawl+. Its really starting to get more competitive and shield stun will take it to the next level. I love melee and I love brawl+ But if you don't want to, ok.

Here are some combo things maybe you should check out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEgnGTG68gc&feature=email
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofEMN4eK-ss&watch_response

PS: CF is actually good now! Dont know if that will make you attempt it haha ^_^

Holy crap zero suit samus is 64 falcon

I wish it could have the awesomeness of melee

 

[MuBa]

I thought Brawl+ was actually pretty good.

And why are people complaining that characters can combo now? I kinda thought that was the whole point of hitstun in the first place?

It would never become a solid competitive standard though, because that would basically be asking everyone to hack their Wiis if they ever want to go to a tournament (or even practice for a tournament for that matter).

I think the most effective way of Brawl+ having a chance at being competitive is for a company to make an Action Replay out for the Wii cuz essentially these hacks are basically manipulating values and variables with hexadecimals.

That way people won't have to go through the trouble of getting the HomeBrew Channel installed to their system.



Edit: Can you upload your own codes in Powersaves?

 

[kupo15]

...Doesn't Meta Knight in tourneys ever get boring? Brawl is essentially the same thing over and over...I mean, you should try something else. Like Melee.

Just pop in the Melee disc and try it...Seriously.

lol wow. So you decided to edit your post from "I stand corrected" to more BS about Brawl that isn't even true. In fact, I think that Melee is essentially the same game over and over again. If melee wasn't such an excellently programmed game, it would probably get boring quicker but because it has top notch programming, it doesnt really get boring. But this still doesnt change the fact that you see more repetition in melee than brawl.

Melee is more of muscle reflex game and brawl is more of a thinking game. What I mean by this is that your proficiency with your fingers dominate most of the game with some mindgames to get that first attack. I have played several good falco's where I shielded their shine and they jump anyway to follow up with an invisible opponent. Its just instinct and a muscle reflex that they do this.

In brawl, the stale move system is much stronger so you need to know your moveset well enough as to designate a kill move that won't be used as you "juggle" the opponents or else you wont kill low. In melee, you hardly have to worry about stale moves due to the system being weaker and the ledge game being more fierce.

Just pop in a Brawl+ disc and try....seriously.

---
And you can follow up a tech, Kupo. It's called a tech chase. You would know that if you played Melee. Just saying.

You know, if you do a Dsmash with falco in melee and they DI Down and tech away, you can follow up, its called a tech chase.....yea right!
Tech chasing is also laughable. Its almost non existent unless you are Ganon or GaW. Try tech chasing in melee without wavedashing and dash dancing. Its possible if you guess correctly, but good luck if you guess wrong!

Its funny how unintelligent and ignorant the Melee community is about Brawl and whats even worse is you think you know more than us about our own game!!!

My assumption was justified because yes, I can CG MK Dthrows across FD if my opponent sucks at DI. I can follow up with a Nair after a Dthrow since the Dthrow sends them at a 45 deg angle upwards without DI. But if you DI down and away, you tech and you cant follow up with a nair or that combo that guy was talking about which is the only thing I was refuting.

But then you brought up "tech chasing" but even if they tech away, you still cant catch up for another throw or move since you automatically powershield and you can avoid the grab. The only time its possible would be a dthrow so they tech near the ledge. Even so, without dash dancing, tech chasing is more difficult so you saying "oh btw, you can tech chase" is laughable.

But I wouldn't expect you to know any of this since you are disagreeing with brawlers who have studied the game more than you while saying we don't know what we are talking about. You would know this stuff if you played Brawl. Just saying.


And way to show your that community is made up of a bunch of bigots and know-it-alls who discuss Brawl as if they are right when they clearly are not as well as claiming that every Brawl player doesnt know **** about melee. I seriously thought the Melee community was a step up in maturity, but I am deeply mistaken. They are no better than brawl community.

I shall leave you to your group called "Brawl+ will fail because we want it too" group since this clearly is a waste of my time to argue with more "intelligent" ppl

 

[KosukeKGA]

Ack, scary!

If you want to go play Brawl and Brawl+, be my guest! I think we can do just fine without you. No need to explode over a game. Yeesh.

 

[B-Will]

lol you all...superryan probably knows more about brawl+ than any of you.

it sounds like he's like the only one here who has actually played the game, or one of the few in this thread... you guys are way too quick to judge; he isn't some random noob who just joined smashboards.

Although I may not necessarily agree with one or two of his opinions, his posts do provide us with good feedback on a game [brawl +] of which most of us, including me, have never played before.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Melee is more of muscle reflex game and brawl is more of a thinking game. What I mean by this is that your proficiency with your fingers dominate most of the game with some mindgames to get that first attack.[/QUOTE]

No, not exactly. That's just a common argument that people make just because Brawl is slower and has no dexterity involved. Although it does REQUIRE you to think to some extent, that's no reason to warrant saying that it has more mental capacity than Melee.

You know, if you do a Dsmash with falco in melee and they DI Down and tech away, you can follow up, its called a tech chase.....yea right!
Tech chasing is also laughable. Its almost non existent unless you are Ganon or GaW. Try tech chasing in melee without wavedashing and dash dancing. Its possible if you guess correctly, but good luck if you guess wrong!

It's not guessing, it's mindgames. I don't see where your argument is going. You say that Brawl requires more thinking, and then you call techchasing a joke because it's next to impossible to do without having fast reflexes. No, that's the thing. You're supposed to pressure and predict your opponent into going where you want them to. That's a mental aspect of this game, no? Also, very few people if any at all actually SDI down and tech d-smashes :/

You would know this stuff if you played Brawl. Just saying.

He actually does sometimes, even though I tell him not to :/

as well as claiming that every Brawl player doesnt know **** about melee.

If you were a representative of the Brawl community, then your post would have proven that Brawlers in fact DON'T know **** about Melee.

 

[Tee ay eye]

lol You All...superryan Probably Knows More About Brawl+ Than Any Of You.

It Sounds Like He's Like The Only One Here Who Has Actually Played The Game... You Guys Are Way Too Quick To Judge; He Isn't Some Random Noob Who Just Joined Smashboards.

Holy ****, B-will

 

[ZeroFrames]

I play "Brawl+"

and it is very much better than Brawl normaly

for example "Gravity-Factor" is very bad in normal Brawl
try out "StoneBrawl" or "HeavyBrawl" !!
I think this gonna makes the Game much better

The actually L-Cancle is very different to the L-C in Melee
you have to Press the R/L/Z-Button 0,5sek. before Landing

Thats Why I play with ShieldCancling too.
but I think ShieldCancling is much too easy for Competive. (but better than without all Lag-Cancles)
so i hope for a "Melee-L-Cancle"

And I also wait 4 DJC in Brawl
I HATE THE BRAWL-YOSHI
because he doesnt have DJC
God **** it makes him so Floaty and dreary >.<

 

[metaXzero]

^Their is an auto-L-cancel code out now.

 

[ZeroFrames]

^Their is an auto-L-cancel code out now.

Rubbish!

This wont make the game more Competiv at all!

 

[metaXzero]

Rubbish!

This wont make the game more Competiv at all!

It removes a pointless technical barrier that exists with Manual L-cancel (which could lead to more people having interest in Brawl+). Plus, the manual L-cancel code has ackward timing due to the fact you have to press the L/R button all the way down.

 

[Fletch]

still auto recover/DI

This is the deal-breaker for me. Characters will still have ridiculous recoveries, live to insane percents and auto-hug the edge. For me, that's what makes Brawl so annoying.

 

[metaXzero]

This is the deal-breaker for me. Characters will still have ridiculous recoveries, live to insane percents and auto-hug the edge. For me, that's what makes Brawl so annoying.

Their is work on increasing the gravity and diminishing auto-snap ledges.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

just hack melee and add characters and stages and replays brawl forever