Bug found - Bug removed!

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Why has everyone been feeding this troll for 8 pages..?

Because it raises their post count.

 

[nublet06]

lol why do you guys argue with him.

on about.....february......13th?

around that time he will realize that he just sucks at brawl just like he did in melee. because he will fail to pick up anything that takes skill. and instead will c stick mash or whatever he does normally.

 

[ZombieBite]

Get something to support your claim, and come back. Until then, I've won the argument. At least read my post.

Alright, I'll get back to you on that.

Kiss *** alert....
I have no pent up anger infact I was trying to be nice at the start but you destroyed that by being .... "special"

I'm trying to help you help me by being nice, but your heart just isn't there.

eh, Angoku had a point there on me.

He's ignoring the posts simply because he doesn't really have a good reply for any of them.

Sorry if I'm ignoring some peoples' posts, it's hard to keep up with a good chunk of the community worked up like this.

Why has everyone been feeding this troll for 8 pages..?

I know right.

 

[IShotLazer]

But see, I won't have to anymore. I've resisted learning the technique this long and now my comfortableness with a non-wavedashing game-style is paying off and I'm happy.

And no, I shouldn't be forced to learn how to wavedash to combat wavedashers. Wavedashers will now have to learn how to not wavedash to combat me. Which is how it should be.

That seems quite arrogant of you don't you think?
In SSBB i guarentee that there WILL be advanced tactics, so when the time comes are you going to try to learn them so you can better your gameplay? Are you simply just a "maurder against wavedashing only"? Or is it anything advanced that you are against?

 

[BigRick]

I hate the brawl boards.

 

[ZombieBite]

That seems quite arrogant of you don't you think?
In SSBB i guarentee that there WILL be advanced tactics, so when the time comes are you going to try to learn them so you can better your gameplay? Are you simply just a "maurder against wavedashing only"? Or is it anything advanced that you are against?

See, I see L-canceling as a good example of what I think of when I hear "advanced techniques". It's obvious it's intentional and it's deep enough to continually learn different implementations of it throughout your Smash life.

Wavedashing has been removed. Why do you think they intentionally removed the means to wavedash?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Originally Posted by Witchking_of_Angmar
Get something to support your claim, and come back. Until then, I've won the argument. At least read my post.

Alright, I'll get back to you on that.

Let's see how long that takes.

*Ten millennia later...*

 

[Engo]

But see, I won't have to anymore. I've resisted learning the technique this long and now my comfortableness with a non-wavedashing game-style is paying off and I'm happy.

And no, I shouldn't be forced to learn how to wavedash to combat wavedashers. Wavedashers will now have to learn how to not wavedash to combat me. Which is how it should be.

Wavedashers have to learn how to not wavedash?

I doubt that people will be airdodging all over the place because they aren't used to playing without wavedashing.

 

[Micahc]

This thread = Waste of the Internet and 1/2 an hour of my time.

And smash is made to be both competitive and casual. Other wise their would be no tourney system built into the game.

 

[Eltrotraw]

You know, you still haven't provided any plausible proof that the developers said they "intended to remove wavedashing" or similar.

Where is it?

 

[Pluvia's other account]

People.

Do Not. Feed. The Troll.

You aren't going to get through to him. You'll just come away feeling frustrated. He wants you to argue with him.

Just let this thread die.

 

[IShotLazer]

See, I see L-canceling as a good example of what I think of when I hear "advanced techniques". It's obvious it's intentional and it's deep enough to continually learn different implementations of it throughout your Smash life.

Wavedashing has been removed. Why do you think they intentionally removed the means to wavedash?

So pretty much if it isn't planned, it isn't right?

 

[ZombieBite]

You know, you still haven't provided any plausible proof that the developers said they "intended to remove wavedashing" or similar.

Where is it?

It doesn't exist.

Do you think they didn't know about wavedashing before they started making Brawl? Do you think they didn't realize what they did by removing directional air-dodging?

 

[Keitaro]

doesnt matter, i am still going to play smarter than the avergae joeshmoe, and there will still be new advanced techs discovered...peace

-hiroshi

Quote ftw.

Topic creator: your dumb to think that no wavedashing etc will make you win. You'll still get your *** kicked by the same people probably just as badly and when you do remember my words.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

It doesn't exist.

Do you think they didn't know about wavedashing before they started making Brawl? Do you think they didn't realize what they did by removing directional air-dodging?

I think the reason directional AD was removed was so you don't have infinite recovery, since you can jump after AD, having it be directional would give every character infinte recovery. And you can jump after AD to allow more freedom in aerial combat, which is what sakurai and his dev team wanted from the start. So the removal of Wd was not on purpose.

About not feeding the troll; I have to options:

1) Spam, feed the troll, and get my post count up
2) Let this thread die and bore myself.

I went for option 1.

 

[ZombieBite]

So pretty much if it isn't planned, it isn't right?

See, that's why I don't like arguing about the specifics of wavedashing. It's hard to define where bug begins, exploit ends, and neither of them apply. Should wavedashing be treated as a bug? As an exploit? Or should it be accepted as any "normal" technique?

Obviously if you were to find a glitch in Counter-Strike that let you pass through a wall into another portion of the stage, it would be regarded as a glitch. But what if the community embraced it and everyone implemented it into their strategy, thus becoming part of the game? Would it go from "gay glitch" in the beginning to "just part of the stage" later in the game's life?

It's hard to define how I think of wavedashing, especially since the majority of the competitive community is behind it and has assimilated it into the actual game.

 

[mario-man]

See, look at that sentence. It's like you're trying to downplay wavedashing but can't come up with something that doesn't sound like a huge advantage. Oh yes, we're all able to play the game without wavedashing? No way! And all wavedashing does is makes you faster, harder to hit, and more tricky? Well gee.

"You are the one who is not smart enough who thinks that without wavedashing all the pros like Ken, KDJ, M2K and PC Chris will be below you once WDing gone."

Yeah, I think I can beat the pros, that's what I was getting at.

Shut Up Dude!!! you're stupid!! I'm not like this usually, but you are making an idiot of yourself and I'm trying to help you NOT get a bad rep. If it's not too late to save that is.....

Pros are Pros with or without WDing. I can wavedash consistently, ya think I'm a pro, NO!! at least not yet...

They are pros because of their MINDGAMES/KNOWLEDGE OF THE GAME/EXPERIENCE!!! NOT because they can WD every stinkin time they try to. I can almost do that myself. That's not what makes me a pro/non-pro. It's the smarts of the person. If I would drop certain advanced techs, I might actually get smarter cuz you have to learn when to implement the techs which means more training time, cuz you have to perfect them. BUT, they ultimately make you better once you HAVE mastered them. I just haven't done that yet, so I could improve by dropping them. I just see the ultimate result of being a pro, and it makes me strive to perfect the techs which are just TOOLS to play the game with. I don't HAVE to have them.

Granted, I do WANT them, but I don't HAVE to have them.

 

[ZombieBite]

I think the reason directional AD was removed was so you don't have infinite recovery, since you can jump after AD, having it be directional would give every character infinte recovery. And you can jump after AD to allow more freedom in aerial combat, which is what sakurai and his dev team wanted from the start. So the removal of Wd was not on purpose.

That's a good theory, but don't treat it as fact as you did in your last sentence. We really don't know for sure if they meant to, but you have to at least realize that they obviously knew what wavedashing was and how it was done before they removed directional air-dodging, right?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Obviously if you were to find a glitch in Counter-Strike that let you pass through a wall into another portion of the stage, it would be regarded as a glitch. But what if the community embraced it and everyone implemented it into their strategy, thus becoming part of the game? Would it go from "gay glitch" in the beginning to "just part of the stage" later in the game's life?

What? This is totally irrelevant. Notice how he avoids answering my posts because he knows that my arguments beat his easily.

 

[ZombieBite]

MINDGAMES/KNOWLEDGE OF THE GAME/EXPERIENCE!!!

That little yellow section in your text looks like pee.

 

[ZombieBite]

What? This is totally irrelevant. Notice how he avoids answering my posts because he knows that my arguments beat his easily.

Erm...no, you just ignored my post by pointing out that I ignor.....nevermind.

 

[veil222]

Eh, I see both sides of the argument, there are a class of smashers who are better than casuals *solely* because they know the advanced techs. One of my friends trashes people in his casual group cause he can shuffle and wavedash, but when he plays against me, a tournament player, it's pretty obvious he's just a casual player with tricks he doesn't know how to use against someone who knows what they're doing. This is the group of people the TC is probably mad at, the casual people who end up learning the techs just ot have an upper hand in casual play, in which case, yes, the tech DOES mean they have an unfair advantage.

At the same time, you can get better at mindgames and timing to beat those techs even in casual play, I think he's just annoyed cause he feels like he has to respond to the techs to keep up even in casual play.

 

[Betaz]

ZombieBite let me ask you something do you think that "Wavedashers" somehow magically got good when Wavedashing was first found out?
(Bold for emphasis)
No they were good before and it just made them find new things to do in their game... so when brawl does come out they still have an immense amount of AT's to work with. It is very arrogant of you to say that "YAY i can beat Wavedashers now!!!one!" when the fact of the matter is many "Wavedashers" will still be very good even without WaveDashing. Such as L-Canceling which allows them to reduce half thier lag after landing from a huge air combo they just did on you so that they can jump up again (while you are still in the air) and do another one.

 

[mario-man]

ZombieBite:

like I said, your making an idiot out of yourself. Plz stop for your own sake.

 

[ZombieBite]

ZombieBite let me ask you something do you think that "Wavedashers" somehow magically got good when Wavedashing was first found out?

No, do you?

No they were good before and it just made them find new things to do in their game...

Learning to wavedash doesn't mean you were good beforehand, but continue.

it is very arrogant of you to say that "YAY i can beat Wavedashers now!!!one!" when the fact of the matter is many "Wavedashers" will still be very good even without WaveDashing

I didn't say that, I was just glad that advantage that wavedashers had over me (by wavedashing) is now gone. The other factors of the battle are obviously there and there are obviously other factors to winning than just wavedashing.

 

[J.L]

wavedashing doesnt give anyone a big advantage, it is simply a technique that everyone can use. Its your choice to wavedash or not, much as it is your choice to jump or shield. If you think wavedashing is so useful then you should learn it. Also if you are so confident in beating pros without them wavedashing, why dont you challenge any of them to a money match and ask them not to wavedash. Works just the same instead of waiting for the brawl release. Otherwise, shut up. Simple as that.

 

[mario-man]

Which is why we are crying at night!! Because you're SO ARROGANT, and you're the one that's gonna gain ground. I think that the advantage should stay. Oh well......it's gonna be fun kickin' your butt without WDing to prove how arrogant and stupid you are acting right now. One last time, plz stop making an idiot out of yourself FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!!!
Otherwise your pride will suffer BIG TIME later on when you get owned by the pros which you think you could 3 stock.

 

[IShotLazer]

Actually, in all the games I played, as long as everyone could perform something, then it was fair game.
In halo 2, before a couple of updates you could actually grabs flags through walls, however it was fair and not illegal to do so simply because everyone could do it.

 

[ZombieBite]

wavedashing doesnt give anyone a big advantage

Think so?

Its your choice to wavedash or not, much as it is your choice to jump or shield.

Oh wait, but you compare it to shielding and jumping. Doesn't shielding and jumping give you a big advantage over someone who doesn't shield and jump?[/QUOTE]

If you think wavedashing is so useful then you should learn it.

But wait, but if it doesn't give me a big advantage then why would I do that?

Also if you are so confident in beating pros without them wavedashing,

I'm not.

why dont you challenge any of them to a money match and ask them not to wavedash.

Because I would lose.

 

[mario-man]

That's better ZombieBite. humility will take you a long way.

 

[ZombieBite]

it's gonna be fun kickin' your butt without WDing to prove how arrogant and stupid you are acting right now.

Wouldn't prove anything. How many times have I said a non-wavedashing wavedasher could potentially beat me as much as I could beat a wavedashing wavedasher? Wavedashing doesn't equal total dominance or instant victory.

 

[Betaz]

No, do you?



Learning to wavedash doesn't mean you were good beforehand, but continue.




I didn't say that, I was just glad that advantage that wavedashers had over me (by wavedashing) is now gone. The other factors of the battle are obviously there and there are obviously other factors to winning than just wavedashing.

1) no i don't

2) srry i did'nt make myself clear enough in my last post i was only talking about the people that were good before wavedashing i know everyone was'nt good before hand but i wasnt talking about them srry

3) okay since wavedashing is gone what makes you think that just because one AT is gone which mostly is used for the sole purpose of movement can make you win over these people

 

[SirPenguin]

I don't feel like duking it out with either side, but I will say wavedashing is sure as hell debated about FAR more than it's actually used. It must be the name or something.

 

[ZombieBite]

Actually, in all the games I played, as long as everyone could perform something, then it was fair game.
In halo 2, before a couple of updates you could actually grabs flags through walls, however it was fair and not illegal to do so simply because everyone could do it.

Exactly. Things that were initially (at least when first discovered) regarded as bugs or exploits before an integral part of the game. Is this right? Is this wrong? We don't have to debate anymore because it's gone.

 

[ZombieBite]

1) okay since wavedashing is gone what makes you think that just because one AT is gone which mostly is used for the sole purpose of movement can make you win over these people

I'm just happy I don't have to deal with it anymore. I'm not saying who will win or lose, I'm just saying I have a better shot now that a technique that I don't use (for various reasons) has been taken out (for obvious reasons).

 

[mario-man]

I hope we face off some time. Cuz Mario still has it to an extent and Mario is my main and I will own you.

 

[veil222]

Mario-man, you're not much better than a troll... he never said he could take the pros without WD'ing, he's not the only one who could do well by some humility on these boards.

I really think the two sides to the argument are talking about two different groups of people. People saying WD doesn't matter much are tourney go-ers, in which case, it doesn't matter much because the people in tourneys are good enough to not need to rely on the adv. tech.s to up their game.

I think what zombie usually refers to is two people of low or moderate skill (casuals) where one uses the techs and the other doesn't, the one that uses them has a big advantage. I believe this is true as I've seen it happen plenty in the casual groups I play with.

I think most people are arguing two different arguments here.

 

[Rex+]

No WDing =/= Higher Chances of Victory
​

That is all.

 

[ZombieBite]

I think most people are arguing two different arguments here.

Why'd you have to point it out? It's been more fun that way.

 

[Betaz]

Oh sweet Jesus I can't wait for Brawl, and yunno why? Besides the obvious tons of characters and stages and improved gameplay, they fixed some annoying bugs in Melee that allowed people, who exploited them, to have an advantage in battle against those who didn't exploit them.

I can't wait to beat down some wavedashers who can't get a grip on how the game is actually played until I teach them first hand online. They'll be like "but wuuuuuuuuh? i cant move twice as fast and chain simple air moves over and over again into ridiculous combos deeeeeeruuuuuuuuh???"

This'll be fun.

uh huh......?