Buff wishlist!

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
Frankly, I can kill much better with him than Young Link. He's probably my preferred Link.
I find YL to be ironically, extremely easy to kill with. It just takes a higher percent that what it would on say, adult Link or most other high tiers, to do that. Landing a fire arrow is pretty much the end of a stock depending on a few other factors, and they aren't hard to cover if you know the character well and know when a window presents itself to go for it.

TL not only also requires higher percentages to score kills, but racks up percentage slower and has less ways to confirm them. I've labbed TL for a bit and couldn't find anything other than what I mentioned above. Regardless, him being a slower, floaty character also doesn't do him any favors.. nor does losing the Link / YL NAir.
 

Arthur97

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
1,714
I find YL to be ironically, extremely easy to kill with. It just takes a higher percent that what it would on say, adult Link or most other high tiers, to do that. Landing a fire arrow is pretty much the end of a stock depending on a few other factors, and they aren't hard to cover if you know the character well and know when a window presents itself to go for it.

TL not only also requires higher percentages to score kills, but racks up percentage slower and has less ways to confirm them. I've labbed TL for a bit and couldn't find anything other than what I mentioned above. Regardless, him being a slower, floaty character also doesn't do him any favors.. nor does losing the Link / YL NAir.
Doesn't matter. I prefer Toon Link and am terrible with Young Link.
 

Party14534

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Messages
1
I think we all understand that there are some moves in Ultimate that are good. But, nothing is inherently broken, We're not dealing with multi-shines or vanilla Bayo ladder combos. Nerfing a fighter means tearing apart their playerbase and is more or less a necessary evil than doing good. It would be better, in my opinion, to buff weaker fighters than nerf today's top tiers. So, what are the fighters who you would like to see buffs in?

I'll start: King Dedede needs a buff to his airspeed and less landing lag overall. Something simple yet effective.
I think Little mac obviously needs a buff, I was thinking a longer range to his side b to allow him to get back to ledge easier.
I could also see his up b getting buffed by making it go higher up but I feel making him a lot better offstage could present problems
 

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
Mac is fundamentally broken by design, there's no way to buff him to make him viable that doesn't result in him becoming totally busted. Ultimate just wasn't kind to him at all.

'Broken' I suppose may not be the right word, he is the way he is for a reason.. though I do feel a star punch system with his neutral B that leads up to a KO Punch with 3 stars would've been better than the charged lunge which is total garbage. That said, in Ultimate he just can't hack it, the way Mac is as a character is what hurts him, not little modifiers or tweaks on his moves.
 
Last edited:

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,969
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
Is it bad if I think that Rosalina needs most of her stuff from Smash 3DS / Wii U again? Based on some of the speculated tier lists, it almost feels like she has turned into a terrible fighter.
 

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
I'm just one man with a bucket of opinions, but here's my worthless tier list based on the current meta which should reflect how I feel about her in Ultimate without going on a 7 paragraph tangent:

She's bottom 10, imo. Outside of Elite Smash, Battle Arenas and some local tournaments I can't say I have heavy experience like some top pros at the moment nor do I have the definite word of god.. but this is just my two cents on her. She has a lot of problems, Ultimate just wasn't kind to characters like her and her transitional tweaks didn't help.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,969
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
What exactly happened to Mr. Game & Watch anyway? He wasn't that awful of a fighter in Smash 3DS / Wii U, so something must've hit him real hard if he's considered to be among the worst fighters ever in Ultimate.

As for Little Mac, it's sad to see him be classified as a terrible fighter as well; he wasn't bottom 5 bad either. He's supposed to have a strong ground game, while his air game is weak. But obviously, having a bad air game is not going to lead to anything good.
 

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
G&W Got a new FAir, a bomb toss move. At first glance this might seem like a cool upgrade, but compared to the box flip FAir of old it's just abysmal. It has a ton of startup AND endlag, while it can kill (at high percents, keep in mind) any character with moderate speed can get out of the way even if right on top of it. It doesn't really combo or confirm well into anything from my labbing of him, either. On top of that, just the usual G&W problems. He has one of if not THE worst roll in the entire game, it feels like what some other characters have after 5-6+ rolls resulting in tons of frame lag being added to their roll due to how they work in Ult.. and that's how his roll feels fresh. Once it picks up ANY lag, it's almost painful to use and isn't ever a good idea.. it's EXTREMELY punishable.

Speaking of punishable stuff, everything about him just about is. His NAir (the fish bowl thing) has a decent hitbox but doesn't do the kind of damage nor have the kind of knockback to translate into anything. His BAir leaves him totally helpless in the event the move doesn't connect. His UAir is.. okay I suppose. DAir is probably his best aerial, which isn't saying much because I'm not a huge fan of moves that quickly snap you down to the ground like the DAir key slam does. He has no synergy to his kit at all, he feels extremely laggy and clunky.. he kind of reminds me of a worse melee G&W. Only now instead of a lack of L-Cancelled aerials or a messed up shield, it's other serious problems. I could go on for hours about how messed up Ult G&W feels. He used to be my go-to bad character, but now he's so crap I can't even use him as a joke.

Mac had a number of things done to him going into Ultimate that just didn't do him a single favor. The recovery 'buff' affected him more like a nerf, when knocked about in the air he doesn't get his side B back, his aerials are all crap and he's lost his infinite, DTilt combo is gone, neutral B is one of the worst in the game and I really wish it could've been a star punch move.. oh Mac. He's a free kill any time you get him offstage, terrible recovery aside he has NOTHING to defend himself with properly in the air and gimping him when he's in recovery distance is extremely easy. Otherwise you can just watch him awkwardly fall to his death if hit far enough out most of the time.

He has pros of having powerful armored attacks on the ground and being fast, and his cons include.. literally everything else about him as a character. His fundamental design just isn't favored by a game like Ultimate. Maybe in a FFA or 2 v 2 he could be higher up in the tiers, but for 1 v 1 fights he's totally out unless you simply like him as a character or want to be disrespectful. There's no reason to pick him or G&W over ANY other character as any time invested in them would be infinitely better spent in other characters, even low tiers. Charizard is just, bad as I've mentioned above, no reason to ever switch to him really as PT.
 

OctoWich

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
15
NNID
OctopusSandwich
This isn't coming from a balance perspective, but to be fair... he loses them even easier in the Kirby games.
That’s a fair point. I just think it’d be a nice buff for him and he wouldn’t exactly be OP or anything having the copy ability last the whole stock since majority of his moves are lackluster. I’ve lost my copy ability after two hits and it’s kind of frustrating.
 
Last edited:

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
I don't think that would be a very effective buff, as copy isn't really what hurts Kirby (nor does it have a big chance of helping him if buffed) as I already said. What hurts Kirby FAR more is his poor air speed, meh ground speed and lack of range.
 

OctoWich

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
15
NNID
OctopusSandwich
I don't think that would be a very effective buff, as copy isn't really what hurts Kirby (nor does it have a big chance of helping him if buffed) as I already said. What hurts Kirby FAR more is his poor air speed, meh ground speed and lack of range.
I agree completely, I listed those things in my buff wishes as well. It’s just a buff I wouldn’t be opposed to.
 

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
I mean, I'm not opposed to it either, but at the same time I can't be a proponent of a rather pointless buff. Kirby's copy ability has mostly always felt like a gimmick and it barely contributes to his place in the meta because it simply isn't consistent or reliable. You can't exactly have Kirby feel right WITHOUT copy, though, so it's a necessary curse and I wouldn't advocate for the move's replacement. This sort of condemns it to the fate it has, I don't see any real reason to buff it as it's such a minor aspect of his performance and use.. but I also couldn't see it ever being replaced with another move due to how iconic a move of Kirby's it is either.

I think the best compromise would be to let the move copy different moves from characters, not just replace Kirby's neutral B with their's. If you maybe get an RNG copy, or a choice copy to pick up ANY of their moves.. well Kirby COULD benefit some (not much, but some) from that. I think you could also make copy have more of an effect on Kirby after the copy, perhaps copying more B moves and even changing some of Kirby's normals.. but that could start encroaching on busted / super gimmicky so I'll back off on that. I just think it'd be cool if copy worked more akin to how it does with a character copy like Olimar.. just in general. Maybe getting two B moves instead of one. THAT would be best imo.. side B isn't the best move and could absolutely be lived without when copying other abilities.
 
Last edited:

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,969
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
As far as I know, the only special move that Kirby can truly take advantage of is Shulk's Monado Arts. Everything else either ranges from being situational, or just pointless as a whole.
 

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
Yeah Monado is pretty useful, and a few other ones can be taken advantage of in specific situations but overall the move is pretty useless and irrelevant to him as a character in Smash which is ironic as it's basically THE defining factor he has outside of Smash.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,969
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
Yeah Monado is pretty useful, and a few other ones can be taken advantage of in specific situations but overall the move is pretty useless and irrelevant to him as a character in Smash which is ironic as it's basically THE defining factor he has outside of Smash.
If the attack didn't have so much start-up lag, maybe it could've had more use. Though it wouldn't matter if any attack can interrupt Inhale before the target gets anywhere near Kirby's grab range.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
1,664
Location
Castle Dedede
NNID
ZeDiglett
I honestly think Mac could use a complete and total rework right now. In his current state, he's really no fun to play as or against, and his core design philosophy of "great on the ground, crap in the air" just doesn't fit with such a movement-intensive, airgame-focused game as Smash. Making him a bit less dominant on the ground (ditching the Smash attack armor, perhaps?) in exchange for making him able to do things in the air would be ideal; consistency is what this character needs, and what he's always needed.
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
2,970
Location
The Lor Starcutter
I honestly think Mac could use a complete and total rework right now. In his current state, he's really no fun to play as or against, and his core design philosophy of "great on the ground, crap in the air" just doesn't fit with such a movement-intensive, airgame-focused game as Smash. Making him a bit less dominant on the ground (ditching the Smash attack armor, perhaps?) in exchange for making him able to do things in the air would be ideal; consistency is what this character needs, and what he's always needed.
Yes! Thank you! They just need to totally redesign Mac. Give him aerials and a recovery and make his moves more reminiscent of his games.
 
Last edited:

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
Mac by core design doesn't have a lot to work with in the air though, how do you redesign a boxer (a style of fighting where the punches are greatly assisted by the boxer's legs being GROUNDED so he can use his entire body to assist his punching) to something that works well in the air?

The only thing I can think of that could help without completely breaking him to pieces as a character would be some sort of Megaman UTilt move(s) that allows him to do a rocket uppercut off the ground or something to use as an antiair or a kill move. KO Punch sort of has this, but the vertical gain is poor and it's not a move you can use any time. There's just not much you could give Mac in the air that would work with his actual character without it feeling extremely wrong.

The ONE aerial I could see fitting Mac is some sort of two-handed fist slam kind of like Bear Hugger's move in Super Punch Out! on the SNES. Mac could join both hands / gloves together as he rocks his body backward a bit before then jerking forward to gain momentum, finishing the move out by slamming the double fist / glove combo into his opponent with help from the rocking momentum he picked up before doing the move. This attack could have a hefty damage (14-18%) payout without feeling too odd, it could also dunk / meteor. I'd say it'd have to have a bit of startup to balance it out, but you could also have the hitbox linger for a few frames as well.

Otherwise there's not many moves you could give him that work with a boxing character while airborne except maybe a backfist BAir like Ganon / Falcon have. You could also change his NAir to be something akin to a character like Robin's, where a hitbox comes out on both sides of the character in quick succession. For Mac this could be a fast move with a decent enough (for his character, anyway) hitbox, but not much damage or knockback payout. It'd mainly be used as an aerial defense move / combo ender.. which Mac desperately needs. In terms of how the move would work, he could quickly jab forward, then roll his arm back and either throw an elbow behind him, OR he could swing his arm back for a backfist / knuckle strike.

I think you could give Mac the hefty FAir double fist-slam I mentioned above, then maybe an aerial backfist for a BAir in terms of offensive moves. Then NAir, UAir and DAir could all function as aerial defense / disadvantage tools to try and save yourself. That's about the most sensible depth I could ever see a boxing character's air game having. I do still think gutting his charged lunge neutral B and replacing it with a star punch system that builds to a KO punch sort of move would also be fantastic, and you could give his recovery a bit of a boost by giving Up B more gain and having him regain Side B when hit offstage.. IF you balanced some of his grounded options more. I also think he'd really benefit from his Up B being changed to work more like Megaman's UTilt, but with the gain of Falcon Dive. That could be a good kill move AND recovery.

Mac walks the edge, if you do too much he'll end up absolutely busted, if you do too little he's doomed to trash tier.
 
Last edited:

Xelrog

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
516
Location
Battle Ground, WA
Switch FC
SW 2367 4933 3404
Not much to work with? Take the easy way out, just have him randomly poof in elements of a boxing ring or other Punch Out characters. Apparently people don't consider that lazy, so it's not a problem.

/sarcasm
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
40
As for Little Mac, fix his Down Tilt. Sure, it was one of his best moves, possibly his downright best move. But now it’s not as good. It’s not like Little Mac needed nerfs.
Also, why does he not get Side B back after being hit? It makes his recovery worse than in Sm4sh and we all know how bad it was.
Sure, Mac ain’t no air fighta, but can’t he at least be some kind of fighta? Seriously, he’s like Brawl Ganon or Melee Kirby levels of garbage.
 

Idon

Pranked!
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
12,507
Location
Club Inferno
NNID
Femi-fiend
Switch FC
Queen of Kawaii
Mac by core design doesn't have a lot to work with in the air though, how do you redesign a boxer (a style of fighting where the punches are greatly assisted by the boxer's legs being GROUNDED so he can use his entire body to assist his punching) to something that works well in the air?
By not using real-world martial arts physics with video-game characters.

Fact is, EVERY martial arts has heavy use of the ground, because we're not goddamn birds. Doesn't stop actual realistic fighters like Captain Falcon, Ryu, Snake, etc.

Fact is, Mac's aerial inferiority is purely a design gimmick meant to make him more unique.
 

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
By not using real-world martial arts physics with video-game characters.

Fact is, EVERY martial arts has heavy use of the ground, because we're not goddamn birds. Doesn't stop actual realistic fighters like Captain Falcon, Ryu, Snake, etc.

Fact is, Mac's aerial inferiority is purely a design gimmick meant to make him more unique.
Little Mac is a boxer, and the entire martial overview of what a boxer does is punching (jabs, crosses, hooks, uppercuts, rolling jabs, etc) and countering other punches all while being focused on their movement, which is assisted heavily by being grounded so they can use their LEGS and body. An airborne boxer isn't going to hit anywhere near as hard as he does on the ground. Captain Falcon smashes you with his knee, flip kicks you, back fists you, stomps on you and kicks you twice. Tell me how it surprises you in terms of realism, that CF gets more mileage out of his aerial attacks? He's not a boxer, he's a futuristic racing bounty hunter.
 
Last edited:

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,969
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
As for Little Mac, fix his Down Tilt. Sure, it was one of his best moves, possibly his downright best move. But now it’s not as good. It’s not like Little Mac needed nerfs.
Also, why does he not get Side B back after being hit? It makes his recovery worse than in Sm4sh and we all know how bad it was.
Sure, Mac ain’t no air fighta, but can’t he at least be some kind of fighta? Seriously, he’s like Brawl Ganon or Melee Kirby levels of garbage.
Ironic that you brought up Melee Kirby, because he actually has more even and positive match-ups than Melee Bowser.

With that said, even if Little Mac was still able to use Jolt Haymaker more than once while in the air, he would still be at a very poor position when compared to everyone else; his air game is bad, and he has no real way to fight back if he gets juggled around (unless you can time Slip Counter just right).
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
40
Ironic that you brought up Melee Kirby, because he actually has more even and positive match-ups than Melee Bowser.

With that said, even if Little Mac was still able to use Jolt Haymaker more than once while in the air, he would still be at a very poor position when compared to everyone else; his air game is bad, and he has no real way to fight back if he gets juggled around (unless you can time Slip Counter just right).
Well, when I mentioned Melee Kirby, I was referring to his own weaknesses as an individual character, not his matchups... since Melee Kirby obviously has his weaknesses.

And as for Little Mac, I’m not saying those are the only buffs they could give him, I’m just listing off a couple I feel would make sense. I may mot be the most experienced Mac player, but I do have some history with the character. Being able to use Jolt Haymaker after being hit out of it would still help in some situations, so it would still be buff (albeit not a huge one).
 

Idon

Pranked!
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
12,507
Location
Club Inferno
NNID
Femi-fiend
Switch FC
Queen of Kawaii
Little Mac is a boxer, and the entire martial overview of what a boxer does is punching (jabs, crosses, hooks, uppercuts, rolling jabs, etc) and countering other punches all while being focused on their movement, which is assisted heavily by being grounded so they can use their LEGS and body. An airborne boxer isn't going to hit anywhere near as hard as he does on the ground. Captain Falcon smashes you with his knee, flip kicks you, back fists you, stomps on you and kicks you twice. Tell me how it surprises you in terms of realism, that CF gets more mileage out of his aerial attacks? He's not a boxer, he's a futuristic racing bounty hunter.
Every Martial Arts relies on the ground, slightly more realistic than not all isn't particularly a strong argument. Every grounded living being adheres to gravity and gets most of their strength from their feet. That logic that somehow boxing relies more on the ground as compared to every other fighting style, is pretty ridiculous when not one real world has "flying through the air" as an excelling point. Snake's Military CQB or Ryu's Judo don't magically not rely on the ground as much as boxing.

Captain Falcon also breaks realism with ridiculous moves like the flip kick, and knee smash aren't even possible in real life without first launching off the ground in the first place, being a sci-fi racer doesn't make him not humanoid. In fact Little Mac uses some of the exact same aerial techniques as other brawlers like the back-fists (Cpt Falcon), Downward Straights (Ryu), Uppercuts (Ryu), and Overheads (Ganondorf) and every single one of those inexplicably work far better.

The reason Little Mac sucks in the air isn't because boxing is somehow less aerially proficient than Military CQB, Judo, sci-fi street brawling, or space animal dogfighting. It's because it's a gameplay design decision.
 
Last edited:

DelugeTN

Bangin' My Chest
Premium
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
482
Location
TN, USA (Formerly Serbia)
Switch FC
SW-2582-1162-1537
Every Martial Arts relies on the ground, slightly more realistic than not all isn't particularly a strong argument. Every grounded living being adheres to gravity and gets most of their strength from their feet. That logic that somehow boxing relies more on the ground as compared to every other fighting style, is pretty ridiculous when not one real world has "flying through the air" as an excelling point. Snake's Military CQB or Ryu's Judo don't magically not rely on the ground as much as boxing.

Captain Falcon also breaks realism with ridiculous moves like the flip kick, and knee smash aren't even possible in real life without first launching off the ground in the first place, being a sci-fi racer doesn't make him not humanoid. In fact Little Mac uses some of the exact same aerial techniques as other brawlers like the back-fists (Cpt Falcon), Downward Straights (Ryu), Uppercuts (Ryu), and Overheads (Ganondorf) and every single one of those inexplicably work far better.

The reason Little Mac sucks in the air isn't because boxing is somehow less aerially proficient than Military CQB, Judo, sci-fi street brawling, or space animal dogfighting. It's because it's a gameplay design decision.
I was mainly focused on how all of Little Mac's aerials are punches.

If I take my knee and force it outward, ramming it into you with aerial momentum already behind me.. it's doing damage. If I sling the back of my unpadded fist into your face, it's gonna do some damage, if I start kicking and stomping on you, it's gonna do some damage. If I'm wearing boxing gloves and start throwing out airborne jabs, I'm gonna lose a lot of my power.

Regardless of exact, precise realism, all of Captain Falcon's aerials barring ONE are based around kicks / leg attacks which are far more effective in the air than punches, and the one non-kick he has is a backfist which is probably one of the more effective things you could throw out in the air quickly. He's also not wearing boxing gloves.
 
Last edited:

Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
2,158
Location
Niigata, Japan
3DS FC
3668-9945-1996
NNID
BahamurShin
While I know that Kirby has more needed buffs, I would like them to change RNG on losing an ability or completely remove it. I'm positive that in this game Kirby loses his ability more often than before which can get a bit infuriating. I've had matches where I lost an ability 4-5 times which was a rarity for me in previous Smash games.

In regards to overhauling Mac, I think that is a terrible idea. It might better from a competitive standpoint to normalize his moveset and make him less polarizing so that his matchups become more even across the board, but that comes at the cost of stripping down the character's individuality. I've argued before that balance by itself is meaningless. The purpose behind buffs and nerfs is to make a game more fun for players and spectators rather than balancing. What Mac needs are buffs rather than a total makeover, like restoring his Dtilt combos, etc., that would make him more enjoyable as a character.
Still, I've always liked Mac in Smash. I enjoyed using him in Smash 4 and even performed successfully against high level players. The speed and power of his ground game with the ability to armor through attacks with his Smashes always gives me a rush while playing as him as if I've received a shot of adrenaline. I have always been methodical rather than playing rushdown, and win or lose, I don't regret my choices in picking him. Normalize Mac and you take away what makes him fun. I'm ok if his not able to win a major by himself.
I know that some people strive for balance, but aiming for a 5:5 fighting game utopia where everyone stands an equal chance of beating everyone is potentially boring and unhealthy.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
596
Location
Somewhere in this Universe
NNID
MrGameguycolor
Switch FC
7681-9716-5789
While I know that Kirby has more needed buffs, I would like them to change RNG on losing an ability or completely remove it. I'm positive that in this game Kirby loses his ability more often than before which can get a bit infuriating. I've had matches where I lost an ability 4-5 times which was a rarity for me in previous Smash games.
I'm guessing that's because characters do more damage in this game.
But yeah, a more stable copy ability would be nice.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
GRimer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
33,266
Location
Um....Lost?
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
NNID
Swampasaur
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
I think Mac's overall design is fine.

He just needs tweeks in the right areas.

The only character that needs a complete over haul right now is maybe Jr.

And even then, they could fix him by tweaking.
 

staindgrey

The One True Kahnum
Moderator
Premium
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
9,011
Location
The 90's
3DS FC
0130-1865-3216
NNID
staindgrey
Switch FC
SW 1248 1677 4696
Can Corrin just keep her forward/upward momentum at the end of her upB like in For? 'Kay thanks.

Seriously that seems like such a stupid thing to change. Her recovery was never disproportionately good in the first place and she doesn't have the raw power of her FE counterparts to justify the 'meh' recovery options.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
40
Can Corrin just keep her forward/upward momentum at the end of her upB like in For? 'Kay thanks.

Seriously that seems like such a stupid thing to change. Her recovery was never disproportionately good in the first place and she doesn't have the raw power of her FE counterparts to justify the 'meh' recovery options.
I feel like the Neutral B and F-Air nerfs were somewhat unwarranted. Neutral B is somewhat spammable, but F-Air was an important move for Corrin. Now it’s slower.
Why.
As for Corrin’s recovery, she doesn’t even have range to make up for it. Now she’s kinda slow, doesn’t have great recovery and doesn’t have great kill options in many situations. Worst part being she doesn’t have her range from Sm4sh, which was kind of her thing, mostly since Simon took it.
Why did Corrin get hit so hard? She was good, but not broken. Hell, she was like a high mid tier in that game. R.I.P Corrin
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,969
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
I feel like the Neutral B and F-Air nerfs were somewhat unwarranted. Neutral B is somewhat spammable, but F-Air was an important move for Corrin. Now it’s slower.
Why.
As for Corrin’s recovery, she doesn’t even have range to make up for it. Now she’s kinda slow, doesn’t have great recovery and doesn’t have great kill options in many situations. Worst part being she doesn’t have her range from Sm4sh, which was kind of her thing, mostly since Simon took it.
Why did Corrin get hit so hard? She was good, but not broken. Hell, she was like a high mid tier in that game. R.I.P Corrin
What makes Corrin's ordeal feel even worse is knowing that his air speed is poor as well. For someone who has a mediocre recovery, you really need good air speed to compensate for that flaw.
 

GamerZard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
295
Location
Somewhere AWAY from Competitive Impressions
NNID
KopatropaEx
Switch FC
SW-4126-0500-0349
Charizard requires some buffing. His neutral state is non-existent, his hitboxes are inconsistent, his air speed is too slow compared to his ground speed, his moves are completely unsafe on block/whiff, and he dies WAY too early for a super-heavyweight. No wonder no one uses him.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
GRimer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
33,266
Location
Um....Lost?
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
NNID
Swampasaur
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Charizard requires some buffing. His neutral state is non-existent, his hitboxes are inconsistent, his air speed is too slow compared to his ground speed, his moves are completely unsafe on block/whiff, and he dies WAY too early for a super-heavyweight. No wonder no one uses him.
Charizard's neutral game isn't that bad.

I mean Charizard's not dominating the meta or anything but hes not as bad as people think.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
GRimer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
33,266
Location
Um....Lost?
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
NNID
Swampasaur
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Name one saving grace the nerfed lizard has.
The best recovery of the super heavies.

A really good jab.

Nice tilts with a lot of range.

A kill throw that can kill early on platforms.

Flamethrower is a good tool in neutral and advantage.

Big grab range.

Nice disjoints on up tilt and up smash making him good for sharking.

Hits like a truck in general.

And I'm not sure why you're saying he dies earlier then other superheavies. He can live a long time.
 
Top