Buff wishlist!

[Sean²]

What's the point of using the move if at high percents it deals less than 3% damage? If someone shields, you should be stopping anyways, but if it hits, the game shouldn't put them in a position far from where the next hit is going to be. If you land the attack, you should receive the full reward for doing so. The same should apply to all Jab combos except in the case where a rapid Jab is held for an overly extensive amount of time.

I don't know too much about Duck Hunt specifics, but if his Smash Attacks are actually connecting into each other, than the game is doing it right. They should connect into each other. They shouldn't deal an obscene amount of damage, break shields, or anything like that. They should just hit into each other if the first hit is successful. It is also one of the cases where the opponent can't cancel out of it if shielded which increases predictability. Duck Hunt smash attacks should not be causing any major issues in terms of balance (at least not in Smash Ultimate).

I don't play Duck Hunt very often in Ultimate. So I'm not sure if it's still an issue. I was just using the version I did know as an example. If the character is stuck in the entire animation while the opponent falls out and can immediately punish, I think that's a bad move. But if it can be canceled early in some way, I think it should be fine left alone. Just my opinion.

 

[Fell God]

I can respect putting super armor on flame choke, but making it where you cannot tech is a bit far imo. It would become one of the most annoying attacks in the game along with the super armor. I would say only one could be applied, either super armor, or no tech, but absolutely not both.

Couldn't be teched in Brawl and that was when he was at his worst. Don't know if he got a free hit though, Ganondorf wasn't exactly common then.

 

[Sean²]

Couldn't be teched in Brawl and that was when he was at his worst. Don't know if he got a free hit though, Ganondorf wasn't exactly common then.

If I remember correctly it was mostly a tech chase move in Brawl. I played a lot of Ganondorf and I don’t remember anything being guaranteed. But he had his own tier in that game for a reason.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Couldn't be teched in Brawl and that was when he was at his worst. Don't know if he got a free hit though, Ganondorf wasn't exactly common then.

Flame Choke to DTilt wasn't guaranteed (they could get-up attack or roll) but that's what I found myself doing usually. If it wasn't linking DTilt or Jab from Flame Choke, you used it to Ganoncide.

The move was fine itself, but given Ganondorf's terrible physics and mobility, he could never reliably set up tech chases because he got camped and zoned-out by literally every other character; he was such a hot mess.

 

[MG_3989]

Ok if this is pure wishlist and some do them would be stupid to happen but it would help my mains lol

- Give Ness a bat ftilt as well as smash attack. Also give him complete superarmor until PKT hits him on recovery. Also replace PK Pulse with some version of PK Freeze. Of course I’d want that but I don’t think anyone who isn’t a Ness main would. That would just make an already good character stupid lol
- Just give him the same up b as Fox plz
- Replacw her usmash with Ike’s usmash

Again all of these are completely unneeded and silly but I would be estatic if they happened

 

[Gryphon827]

You can still combo up throw to up air at low/mid percents. But Bowser is still fine and viable. if you want to talk about a fighter being unviable, Little Mac says hi.

There's no point in uthrow-uair at low percents; it was only good for killing, since it does barely any damage. That kill confirm was the one thing that made him mid-tier in SSB4. Without it, he's hard bottom tier, just like he is/was in Melee/Brawl. Also, Mac is bad, but there are multiple characters worse.

 

[SomeGuyInAPlace]

Maybe it's not a buff, but can Sonic please get a new up-air?? It's so stupid looking. He does the splits upside down and then SLAPS his shoes together. They must have thought that looked soo cool. BUT IT DOESN'T, OK?? It loOKS DUMB. He looks like an IDIOT.

 

[Astroking112]

: Make his Bonus Fruit last a little longer after collisions to make picking them back up easier. Also let him spawn a second fruit if the enemy is just holding on to his first one.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

: Down B and forward air should come out earlier.
: Neutral B should come out earlier and have less endlag and down throw should have reliable follow-ups after mid percents.
: Up B should have less endlag and up tilt should hit both in front and behind him.
and : Side B should be faster and travel farther.

 

[Praylewd]

side b seems way too laggy for how little it offers but I'm new to pit so maybe I'm missing something.

His f tilt needs a buff
I would also make him fall a bit faster

 

[Jotun873]

[Ridley recovery rant here. Plus buff it]

slightly increase top hitbox of recovery so it doesnt lose to everything.

Up b needs more distance his side b covers more vertical distance, why use fire wolf ever when thats the case?

make his confusion actually work properly again.

add into game. Best buff.

 

[CardiganBoy]

Give Cloud's nair its Smash 4 range BUT with a very weak sourspot on the tip.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

personally
Lucario- Make ASC not shrink to no aura size at max charge with aura, speed up jab by 5 frames since its frame 9 and unrewarding as can be
Ice Climbers- buff nana AI and remove the knockback and damage modifier
Make bouncing fish confirm reliably again for sheik

all I want so far

 

[MG_3989]

- Damage/Killpower buff

She needs it desperately

 

[LloydPab]

What about new moves for characters?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

What about new moves for characters?

If it's a buff, go ahead.

 

[ItsLogic]

Pit needs to get a serious buff. There's almost zero tournament representation because of how balanced Pit is. And yeah I can hear you screaming "wElL iF pIt iS sO bAlAnCeD tHeN wHy dOeS hE nEeD a bUfF?" Well my fellow reader, let me explain why.

I can't complain about Pit's aerial game, that's just, top tier love it
Now I can't say much about Pit's kill potential, because that's close to zero. Pit is great at raking up damage, but, when it comes to sudden death, you can only believe that the other person is gonna win. The only real kill potential thing has to be his smash attack. Side-B rarely kills, the jabs rarely kills, so yeah, more kill potential attacks. That's basically it.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I recently felt that a buff that'd I'd want would be for Pit, and if he had a good on-stage 2-framer against recovering opponents. Granted, he could chase and N-air in order to do that, but that means getting up close and likely getting hit by moves that could do damage, while leaving him vulnerable if he misses. At least with Bowser he has that reaching D-tilt with proper timing or Mac D-smash at the right timing, but Pit didn't have anything (well I think that bad D-smash is one, but not reliable).

And speaking of D-tilt, I wish Pit's had less endlag and such, so it'd combo into F-air or N-air much easier... and part of the reason why I want this is because Incineroar has D-tilt to F-air, which surprisingly is fun to do...

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Pit needs to get a serious buff. There's almost zero tournament representation because of how balanced Pit is. And yeah I can hear you screaming "wElL iF pIt iS sO bAlAnCeD tHeN wHy dOeS hE nEeD a bUfF?" Well my fellow reader, let me explain why.

I can't complain about Pit's aerial game, that's just, top tier love it
Now I can't say much about Pit's kill potential, because that's close to zero. Pit is great at raking up damage, but, when it comes to sudden death, you can only believe that the other person is gonna win. The only real kill potential thing has to be his smash attack. Side-B rarely kills, the jabs rarely kills, so yeah, more kill potential attacks. That's basically it.

Same applies for Meta Knight honestly. He can bring you to kill percents relatively fast but only his smash attacks or a well times b-air are reliable KO options in most matchups. I would appreciate it if f-tilt, d-smash, neutral B and f-air would kill earlier for him.

 

[Deleted member]

Pokemon Trainer also needs a serious buff, but not to Squirtle. I swear Charizard is worse here than in Sm4sh. No wonder no one good uses him.

 

[Deleted member]

If you land that sweet sweet spike hitbox for Wolf's Side-B offstage, it shouldn't leave you helpless. Like the fact that is has a spike means that you're meant to land it offstage, but not only is it super hard to land (which I understand) it leaves you helpless even if you land the spike. Kinda frustrating.

 

[Deleted member]

Accidental post.

 

[XDaDePsak]

Yeah jeez mac is looking worse and worse every day. I don't understand what was the point of nerfing him.

I don't think Nintendo balances characters based on competitive play. They balance characters based on casual play. For that reason, they nerfed Mac. And for that same reason they will probably nerf K. Rool too.

 

[Luigifan18]

I don't think Nintendo balances characters based on competitive play. They balance characters based on casual play. For that reason, they nerfed Mac. And for that same reason they will probably nerf K. Rool too.

Yeah, that about sums it up. The competitive scene is a warped, mutated mockery of Smash, which was conceived as a chaotic multiplayer game on wacky stages with items causing zany shenanigans.

 

[Idon]

Yeah, that about sums it up. The competitive scene is a warped, mutated mockery of Smash, which was conceived as a chaotic multiplayer game on wacky stages with items causing zany shenanigans.

What the hell does that have to do with what he said?

Zany wacky garbage doesn't need patches. Competitive elements do, which is a problem when you appeal to garbage players.

 

[Zubyyyy]

I'm still shocked that the original post in this thread put Multi-Shining and Bayonetta combos on the same level.

One is broken and inherently easy to do, involving few button pushes leading to an easy stock.

One is incredibly hard, requiring thousands of hours of perfecting, and while a good tool is ultimately only used for shield pressure.

 

[VexTheHex]

Let Little Mac use airborn Jolt Haymaker again after getting hit out of it.

Mainly this. Makes me feel like I'm taking a huge risk whenever I'm using it as it very punishable. There also seems to be a delay to use his Up B after using it as well. That's the main thing I'd like to see buffed currently. I know Kirby and Bowser Jr. need help as well though.

I understand in ways the whole goal of making him excel at some stuff and fail at other stuff to balance Little Mac. But I look at other characters who generally excel at most things and question what their weakness is. Link, Samus, and Ness don't have trash up close abilities for being able to spam projectiles and have tether grabs for longer reach, K Rool has amazing projectiles and recovery for a hard hitting heavy weight, Cloud has both meaty sword hitbox paired with a spammable large projectile (seriously why is that thing large, fast, and has a visual making it's hitbox harder to read) with kill potential every little bit. So I think they went a bit overboard on Little Mac's weakness when he is already dealing with extremely close ranged attacks and no projectiles.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Alright folks, if your main got nerfed last night, post about it here.

Personally I feel like the Dedede gordo nerf was unnecessary but barely effective at all. He and Khurbs still need buffs.

 

[puttpupper]

can we get a buff for wolf make him with slightly more vertical distance in his up b and make him slightly heavier at-least heavier then and

 

[Buuhan]

I wish Simon and Richter got buffs. I main them.

Those freaks of nature characters definitely don’t need buffs.

 

[Xelrog]

Dr. Mario's recovery. Just a little more distance. Something. I truly feel it's the only thing holding him back from being an equal yet different alternative to regular Mario. As it is his recovery is just too crippling a weakness to ever seriously consider him over normal Mario.

 

[Predatoria]

I've given it a bit of thought, and it's indeed a tough question.

My main is Ridley, and while I love playing him, he doesn't get nearly as much tournament love as I'd like to see, and has drifted down to the 60s on Eventhub's tier list.

Raise Ridley's weight stat. Currently, his weight is 107, alongside the Belmonts, Ike, Wario, and just a point under Samus. For some references, Bowser is the heaviest at 135, and most characters in the game lie between 90 and 100. Perhaps a solid 118 would do, as he is a flying creature that's quite thin compared to the obese Krool or the heavily armored Bowser. 118 is Ganondorf's weight, and would feel pretty good as Ridley.
http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/Weight

On that topic, heavy, large-bodied characters in general do all suffer from being extremely comboable. Ridley suffers hard from his big hitbox and from how easy it is for other characters to string sequential attacks on him. He, along with other large-bodied characters such as Krool, Ganondorf, King Dedede, and Bowser all seem to have a similar weakness. Note that none of these characters are seeing strong competitive representation at this time, likely due in part to being so combo-able.

Buff heavies such that their hit stun lasts less time. Perhaps form categories such as this (These may be unreasonably weak or strong, as I don't know a lot about frame data or times, but you can get the general idea I have in mind).
Weight > 100 = -1 frame of hitstun
Weight > 115 = -2 frames of hitstun (With my suggested weight buff to Ridley, he'd lie here)
Weight > 130 (Just Krool and Bowser) = -3 frames of hitstun.

 

[Artmastercorey]

I'd buff young link.
-His up B recovery has so little priority for being such an average recovery to begin with. Most moves beat it for someone swinging a sword in midair making it very gimpable. I mean king k rool has a ton of priority for such a tiny little helicopter blade recovery and YL should too.

-His killing power is really bad and I get they designed him to be that way, but this is WAAAy tooo bad. I'd give him atleast one kill option at a lower percent than 150%. Pichu is a great example of how to do light characters right.

-And his range is bad aswell. To balance for that he's suppose to be a fast character but even in that category he's not that fast compared to marth or mario , ect or other quicker characters in term of frame data. Even his projectiles can be fairly slow outside of arrow(which can be sliced away, punched away, ect).

There are characters in this game that have range, speed, and power in one character. Young link is suppose to be a speedier character because he's not balanced in my opinion since he lacks having all 3 categories like say a mario does. So to make up for that either give him a kill option outside of 180% range, give his recovery more priority, and make up for his lack of range by giving him less end lag on his attacks like the other sword characters have.

 

[Rhus]

On that topic, heavy, large-bodied characters in general do all suffer from being extremely comboable. Ridley suffers hard from his big hitbox and from how easy it is for other characters to string sequential attacks on him. He, along with other large-bodied characters such as Krool, Ganondorf, King Dedede, and Bowser all seem to have a similar weakness. Note that none of these characters are seeing strong competitive representation at this time, likely due in part to being so combo-able.

This is just conjecture/anecdotal, but I have seen far more Ridleys in tournament than Bowser and Krool.

I'm pretty sure Ganon gets more visibility as he has a cult following and less to do with his potential, though he is certainly viable in this game.

 

[Team Orchid]

There's three buffs I want for Zelda specifically.

1, Better nair. Maybe make it like smash 4's nair, maybe do something different. Just make it something I want to throw out when someone's approaching so I don't have to risk a baited Nayru and get my butt launched because of all the endlang.

2, Faster grab. Why is Zelda's grab so slow? It's not a tether grab. Sure she has kill throws but even Pit has kill throws. Make this viable for shield grabbing please so Zelda's defensive game can be even better.

3, Make up smash an actual move that can be used. Everything but the knockback on this thing is horrible, it can't even reach BF plats until the last hit. If it was faster or had more range it would be fine but as is it's just a bad kill move on a character that is loaded with kill moves.



...Also get rid of the stupid air to ground slide all teleport recoveries have. It's dumb.

 

[MattVRox0525]

—Increase horizontal range on U-Tilt.
—Make Cargo Throw harder to escape.
—Decrease startup on Jab.
—Make her Jab ACTUALLY CONNECT.
—Give him his SSB4 Jab back.
—A I R S P E E D
—Idk... I don’t play Fox
—Make his F-Tilt and D-Tilt more like Pichu’s. Why does Pichu have a stupid kill move and good D-Tilt but not Pika?
P.S: I don’t have anything against Pichu.
—I get that they wanted to remove Luigi’s janky Cyclone gimps, but did they really have to nerf it that hard? Just do something. His recovery is booty now.
—Two words: Down. Throw.
—Ummmm I honestly don’t know
—Imcrease her hitbox sizes. Not B-Air tho

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Should have his old brawl aerial side B back. And yeah, airspeed buff.

: Needs a buff to his horizontal recovery distance

 

[Idon]

Give Kirby his project M upB

 

[MattVRox0525]

Round 2
Btw I got the ones I missed
—Make his Reflector able to truly stall
Yeah I got nothing else
—Make his grab faster. Yeah I know grabs are supposed to be bad, but this affected Falcon waaaay too much.

Now onto the characters from Melee.—She doesn’t need buffs, but if they were to give her any (which they shouldn’t) I would say to remove that sourspot on her F-Air.
—Give him an actual D-Air. Other than that, DECREASE ENDLAG ON F-SMASH.
—Make desyncs easier.
—Killpower.
—Give her less landing lag. Seriously, her B-Air has a frame more landing lag than her F-Air, but they’re mostly the same move.
—Improve his recovery-ANYTHING. Even decrease endlag on Dr. Tornado so he won’t fall the same distance he rose even with mashing. Or increase his weight.
—Don’t buff her she’s already OP. If they did buff her, I would say to just make her F-Tilt delete characters because it ALREADY DOES-I mean decrease her self-damage on some moves.
—Why do people still fall out of his N-Air?
—Give me the Smash 4 Jab
—A message in this thread said to give Lucina Ike’s U-Smash.
Please.
—Killpower. Either that or make his U-Air as good as Toon Link’s is for him.—Give him the hitbox behind him on U-Air. That’s all we need.
—Why does Confusion no longer take enemies to the center? Also Disable.
—Buff the horizontal distance of Blazer.
—U-Smash.
—Fix his F-Air.
Also...
—MAKE HER ROLLS AS FAST AS DARK SAMUS’
WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA
ESPECIALLY WHEN SAMUS DOESN’T REALLY HAVE ANY OTHER BENEFITS OVER DARK SAMUS

 

[Team Orchid]

—Give her less landing lag. Seriously, her B-Air has a frame more landing lag than her F-Air, but they’re mostly the same move.

I mean bair does kill 5% earlier so it's not a full drawback.