Breaking Mario: Execution

[steep]

Is it too late to talk about how we feel when a match starts?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Feelings are gay.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Haha, Xero has gay feelings!

 

[exdia_16]

WOW! I'm not happy with whats going on in this thread TBH i think this is the most chillest board out there but i guess not after reading all of the Attacking,arguing,dissing no wounder you all haven't found a solution to your problems.this fighting makes things worst im not here to fight im here find out how to make mario good but you guys are losing the whole point of this thread instead of fighting compromise,instead of attacking someone ask questions to determine the better,instead of thinking your way is better try to help and learn from other people not only will you guys become stronger as a community but in no time you all will get better because as i went Through The Fire And The Flames(AKA the thread)i learned something from everyone's point of view please I've seen this happen and i think its best if i stopped it now before it gets worse lets beat the competition and not our self's Boss would not like this and he would most likely stay out of this thread so lets start fresh please im not here to fight i love mario ever since i played his first game and the mario boards should be like mario always ongoing. come on now lets help each other and look at things differently you never know what may come about try to agree more and fight less causes less stress. LETSA GO!!

 

[JuxtaposeX]

ok .

 

[steep]

Woah there were like 3 periods in that post. What a run-on! Ha Ha but I gotcha exdia.

 

[Omari]

@Steep: No, it's never too late (speak your mind, I'm open/negotiable).


@Exdia: There's no argument(s) here. SM decided to resume of his thread here (part three), attempt to convince fellow smashers that his opinions=facts & ridicule others for not agreeing with him. Regarding future breaking Mario? I'll continue to ask questions/provide answers (offline/online) until further notice. Anything you're having trouble with? Trust me, I wanna exploit Mario just as much (if not, more) than you do.


@SM: Say w/e you like (I'm chill), the problem is your writing (not my reading). No one is supposed to impress you (I'm not sure why you believe otherwise). There wasn't any problems before, but since you're not going to be an adult (online at least), then you'll be ignored. It's fine if you'd like the last word. Good day sir, thanks


@Med: We all have different meanings which is why I constantly ask questions to be one step closer to the ideal, your explanations are good BTW. Thanks for your input!


@TG: LMAO@WCDI. Thanks for your input!


Important: I may become temporarily inactive on SWF due to another college semester. I'm going to update the OP asap (when I get the chance) w/ all of our helpful info.

[COLLAPSE="Approaching"]@Mario Mains: I'll start...believe or not, I used to fear approaching. Why? I'd usually get punished for most (if not all of my attempts).

This isn't too much of an issue for me these days but someone may have the same exact questions I had so I'm doing my best to answer them thoroughly.

Example Questions you may want to ask yourself before/while/after playing:
1. What are the best approaches Mario has?
2. Why do you believe this (these) is (are) his best tool(s)?
3. What options of the enemy's are these tools covering?
4. How can we prevent ourselves from getting punished?
5. How does this benefit us? Does it positions our enemy worse than their current?
6. Which characters should this approach be used on?
7. Is this move flexible? Does it allow us to perform another action? (Are we committing to the whole move? *sh n-air (any) is a great example of this*)
8. Does the physical action eat projectiles?
9. Is it safer to fast fall this move or free fall?

1A. Short hop rising back air (sh r b-air)
2A. This is his best tool because his limbs are extended the furthest out of all airs
3A. Preventing grabs, d-tilts, possibly f-tilts/d-smashes (character dependent)
4A. Practice up to small characters since sh r b-air becomes more useful than sh b-air @ apex
5A. Pushes them towards the ledge thus forcing them to recover
6A. Characters around Mario's height or smaller than (Mario, Luigi, Diddy, Yoshi, Wario, TL, ICs, Kirby, MK, Olimar, Fox, Wolf, Pikachu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Jiggly Puff, Ness, Lucas, Mr. G&W & Sonic) although it can be used on the rest of the cast
7A. Yes, any of the following can be performed after (b-air, u-air, d-air, n-air, air dodge, double jump (anything) & special (any))
8A. Yes (although lasers would be an exception)
9A. Smaller characters you may want to fast fall & taller characters you may wanna free fall[/COLLAPSE]
*There's gonna be another BM thread listing most (if not all of Mario combos including %s) & how to get the most out of them.

Let's continue with troubleshooting our execution (understanding why certain actions work, don't work & making most beneficial decisions IRL scenarios=tournament) so feel free to ask me about any in-game difficulties you're having.

 

[steep]

For most games, I am really nervous but also excited. My competitiveness kicks in and I go in to every match confident and determined to prove myself as a Mario main and as a Brawl player. Ok so at the beginning of a match, I shake hands with my opponent and tell them good luck and have fun. When I can dissolve the tension that is inevitably between myself and the person I am competing with I am not as nervous during the match. I also take a deep steadying breath before the game starts and tune out everything around me. I think through what I've heard/read on the match up when they select their character, and what stages would help/hurt their chances. I try to figure out what stage they want to pick so that I can get a little insight on their playstyle before the game starts and that can help me determine their cp sometimes. Lastly, as the game starts I take one more deep breath and close my eyes during the "3...2...1" thing and open them just before "Go!" so that I'm completely focused. Hope that is what you were looking for.

As for Mario's best approach option, I wanna bring up run up -> shield as well. Some of the cast can outspace/punish an approaching bair, so I have found that it's sometimes better to run up, shield, and wait to see what they do. I don't mean get within their grab range, obviously, but just outside of it, so that you can try to react to their next action.

 

[SKidd]

I love you, Omari. You contribute so much to these boards.

 

[Omari]

@Steep: Yes, that's what I was meaning to say earlier. That's a pretty chill way start sets. Me on the other hand, I'm always nervous... Ironically I don't show it. Giving your opponent "dap" or a pound is good sportsmanship (at least@the start of the set). Dissolving tension isn't a bad (it's pretty good actually) way to go about it. Do you mean getting to know them a little before the set? What helps me become less nervous not being afraid of fear (meaning doing my best (what I know works), no matter what the outcome is). Another thing that helps me is "active thinking" (think of it as constant questioning).

I don't wanna spoil my next BM thread but I'll give you the rundown on my approach strategies

[collapse="Safe approaches"]1. sh rising b-air (forcing shield/flexible)

2. sh b-air @ apex of jump (free fall grounded, fast fall when enemy is on platforms to setup jab/tilt/fire ball locks.

Important: Mario can setup these locks on Battle-Field (BF) at early %. When enemy's on a platform, sh b-air @ apex (fast fall can auto-cancel)>buffer jab/f-tilt down or fire ball (forcing a stand-up). You can in a sense modify this tactic to become a tech chase even... They only have three options anyway (tech (which they can stand or roll either way), double jump (gimp?) or attack (bait&punish)

3. sh delayed d-air (before apex)

Why? Generally it's better to be below enemy. Rising d-air forces you to use your double jump whereas a sh delayed d-air doesn't. (u/f-tilt are incredible anti airs, you can still read while grounded plus staled u-airs are extremely broken.) There's no reason to full hop rising d-air unless you get grabbed out of it.

***Since the hit boxes change when (2@feet) Mario hits ground during d-air animation, you can just fall on them>buffer f-tilt up>anything

If you can't fight from below (they have something that beats your u-air) then use stale b-airs (fight from an angle=sides). Trust me, they combo into damn near anything & the hit stun? xD

The greatest reason to utilize f-air or F.L.U.D.D.=forcing their recovery (forcing them into difficult situations or backing them into corners)

4. sh fire ball>jab (anything. full hop fire ball @ apex is simpler to execute due to Mario falling with the fire ball. I'd recommend using it against those who can reflect or cancel-out sh fire balls. Mario, Luigi, DK, Kirby, Falco, Fox, Wolf just to name a few...) Reason fire ball>jab works is because your enemy thinks they can punish you (which they can if you mess up tipping it but that's a different story). So it's basically a frame trap. Look at the options you're covering too... back roll (does wonders at ledges), spot dodge, jump OoS,

5. Cross up u-airs (think about what punishes they can't do opposed to what they're able to)

*Mario doesn't really have too many safe grounded approaches sadly which is mainly why fire balls are highly valued[/collapse]
@SKidd: Thanks, I love helping/learning/critiquing others especially when it's beneficial to me & I<3U2 sir.

 

[exdia_16]

i need to know what moves you guys use Oos when the pressure is on.

 

[Coolwhip]

i need to know what moves you guys use Oos when the pressure is on.

-Nair: give us good knockback so we resume camping...

-Usmash: best use when your opponent is @ high %

-Bair: Get off me bro....xD

<----He's really god-tier, but no one kares

 

[Omari]

@Exdia: The Breaking Mario: OoS thread is an excellent start if you wish to improve punishing skill, thanks.

 

[exdia_16]

@Exdia: The Breaking Mario: OoS thread is an excellent start if you wish to improve punishing skill, thanks.

thats not it at all just want to know what you all use im good with skill improvement and punishing i got that just knowledge i want to know thats all.

 

[Omari]

Ma fault, didn't know what you meant but it's situation dependent. Here's what I use in several but it differs from their %, range, whether they're grounded or airborne etc.


On stage: u-tilt (purpose to get them airborne/put them at disadvantage (tight spot)/read for kills), f-tilt (purpose to force shield or jumps after hit which you can setup)

Airborne: u-tilt (same as ^), u-smash (kill), SJP (used to counter rapid fire/tipped attacks)

Near ledges: d-smash (you could drop shield & d-smash opposite direction or u-smash if facing away), grab (their options become limited due to having no room behind them to maneuver)

Reckless approaches (enemy lands next to you/inside Mario's grab range): grab

Laggy *** attacks (high %): F-smash (best kill option)


*Attacks not mentioned I believe to either useless or not as useful as.

 

[Orion*]

-Nair: give us good knockback so we resume camping...

-Usmash: best use when your opponent is @ high %

-Bair: Get off me bro....xD

<----He's really god-tier, but no one kares

usmash is good oos but when you play people that space it is very rare to get the opportunity to

Bair is really solid but I also don't see it being that amazing. How often is your back to your opponent? If you're camping you can definitely say more often...

Vs low tier characters that might work. But if you think you're gonna beat like a falco/mk/snake/whatever by just camping bair/fireballs you're not gonna get far once they learn the MU.

This means that if you're playing any range but long I don't see bair being something a smart opponent gets hit by very often. It's definitely still a staple, but similar to Usmash it's not something you just plan to get.

I could keep going but my main point is that I really think Mario's need to shield less, and rely on good spacing because you will end up just getting ****ed vs better characters. OOS options come into play when either

A. your opponent messes up after putting pressure on you

B. you make a hard read

neither are good to rely on

 

[steep]

I could keep going but my main point is that I really think Mario's need to shield less, and rely on good spacing because you will end up just getting ****ed vs better characters. OOS options come into play when either

A. your opponent messes up after putting pressure on you

B. you make a hard read

neither are good to rely on

For some reason this was something that I found very interesting (almost enlightening?). Thanks for saying that Orion, it kind of made me think of how to play Mario a little differently. I've been doing a lot of shielding and waiting for my opponent to mess up but I never thought about that not working when I got to high level play. I know that sounds stupid but I can't find a better way to word it. Ha Ha As in, I knew it wouldn't work against high level players, but I didn't think about that fact while I was playing.

 

[Orion*]

For some reason this was something that I found very interesting (almost enlightening?). Thanks for saying that Orion, it kind of made me think of how to play Mario a little differently. I've been doing a lot of shielding and waiting for my opponent to mess up but I never thought about that not working when I got to high level play. I know that sounds stupid but I can't find a better way to word it. Ha Ha As in, I knew it wouldn't work against high level players, but I didn't think about that fact while I was playing.

Thanks haha.

I've been taking a break on stressing myself out about brawl placings, so I decided for the next few months to really work on my Mario. It surprises me how undeveloped a lot of this characters metagame is vs most Good characters and players.

 

[Omari]

@boards: Here's several questions I believe we'd all benefit from
What useful approaches you believe Mario has (& are possibly underrated)? Feel free to speak your mind

What do you feel you're afraid of when playing someone?
Why do you believe you feel this way?
Have you ever thought about not caring about the outcome from fearing such or such player, character, stage etc?

The next topic=risk v reward. We're going to discuss becoming aggressive (IMO an immense help).

 

[A2ZOMG]

usmash is good oos but when you play people that space it is very rare to get the opportunity to

Opportunities to U-smash OOS are actually more common than you may expect. Of course you can't just sit around and wait for it to happen, but it's not actually that hard to create an opportunity where you condition your opponent into taking the bait. Then there is knowing what you're allowed to U-smash oos as well. For instance, one fairly common situation where it's not hard to get a U-smash oos is when Metaknight does a F/Dtilt on your shield. It requires a read, but you can get a guaranteed U-smash punish if you're expecting it to happen.

Bair is really solid but I also don't see it being that amazing. How often is your back to your opponent? If you're camping you can definitely say more often...

I also suggest U-air oos due to how flexible your options are after the cooldown. Not to mention it covers options above and on both sides.

Vs low tier characters that might work. But if you think you're gonna beat like a falco/mk/snake/whatever by just camping bair/fireballs you're not gonna get far once they learn the MU.

Vs Snake actually is won by perfectly spacing B-air and fireballs, and then grabbing him when you have him conditioned to stop trying to challenge your more flexible spacing game.

I could keep going but my main point is that I really think Mario's need to shield less, and rely on good spacing because you will end up just getting ****ed vs better characters.

Equally important: Mario players also need to angle shield better.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

What does angling shield accomplish? Aside not getting shield poked.

 

[Omari]

@JuX: Excuse me. Yes, you asked A2Z but I'd like to explain.
[COLLAPSE="Shield angling pros:"]1. Decreased shield knock-back. Generally, smashers should practice grabbing OoS with C-Stick up instead of attack or w/e their grab button is set to.

2. Improved control over character (especially tilt-wise). Generally in brawl, you should tilt shield (angle to enemy) & then tap/hold during their attack to remain in punishing range. Opposite of SF if you think about it.

Spoiler

Blocking in SF is done by tilting away from point character regardless of any other occurrence on screen. Shielding in Brawl is done by but tilting to due to shield mechanics.

3. Tilting OoS (@1st may be difficult to understand as it was for me). There are two ways you're able to buffer tilts.
-hit tilt to desired direction>tap attack button during tilt
-release tilt from desired direction button>tap attack button after tilt release
*Practice buffering any f-tilt both ways explained after falling d-air (to ground)

4. Preventing being exposed (shield poking) yes, should said besides but it's still important to know/understand+you're able to air/special OoS faster[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Orion*]

Opportunities to U-smash OOS are actually more common than you may expect. Of course you can't just sit around and wait for it to happen, but it's not actually that hard to create an opportunity where you condition your opponent into taking the bait. Then there is knowing what you're allowed to U-smash oos as well. For instance, one fairly common situation where it's not hard to get a U-smash oos is when Metaknight does a F/Dtilt on your shield. It requires a read, but you can get a guaranteed U-smash punish if you're expecting it to happen.

What spacing are the MKs you playing using LMAO. You definitely can't usmash my dtilt if I space right. If it was that simple metaknight would be ****ing free bro, tilts shut out mario pretty solidly imo.

I also suggest U-air oos due to how flexible your options are after the cooldown. Not to mention it covers options above and on both sides.

This is agree with

Vs Snake actually is won by perfectly spacing B-air and fireballs, and then grabbing him when you have him conditioned to stop trying to challenge your more flexible spacing game.

If snake perfectly camps back??

I like that risk reward you have going there lol.
Not to say that you're completely incorrect or something, but unless you massively outskill the snake I don't see that working well for long term wins

 

[Matador]

What does angling shield accomplish? Aside not getting shield poked.

That's basically it. Some characters thrive off of players letting their shield get a tad low.

For example, if G&W runs up to you and fullhop/shorthop fairs while your shield is up, you'll get hit if it isn't completely full. That could easily be a kill...which we definitely don't need since he eats up shield for breakfast as is.

The only other defense is angling shield up to cover Mario's head.

 

[exdia_16]

@boards: Here's several questions I believe we'd all benefit from
What useful approaches you believe Mario has (& are possibly underrated)? Feel free to speak your mind

What do you feel you're afraid of when playing someone?
Why do you believe you feel this way?
Have you ever thought about not caring about the outcome from fearing such or such player, character, stage etc?

The next topic=risk v reward. We're going to discuss becoming aggressive (IMO an immense help).

no one ever uses b reversal.its the most unused move in tourneys i watch and count how many people use it but they don't what i use to approach i never have this problem i fix this fast because in order to start off good then you should do good in the beginning so start off fixing this before you get good but its too late for some of you because if you couldn't get past this in the beginning then it will be even harder when someone else has a better approach so just do what you regularly wouldn't and then the rock,paper,scissors game start so just keep control that's what i do.but I'm not perfect so I'm still going to lose whether i like it or not but its better to keep the lose ratio at least 70/30 winning......




but that's just me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The basic reason you have to know how to angle shield is that several of Mario's hard matchups hinge on how well you angle shield. Vs G&W, Marth, and Metaknight are noticeably harder if you don't angle shield. Also angling shield up is also good preparation for U-air out of shield.

What spacing are the MKs you playing using LMAO. You definitely can't usmash my dtilt if I space right. If it was that simple metaknight would be ****ing free bro, tilts shut out mario pretty solidly imo.

It's your job to make that an opportunity. Of course it's not easy to do, but it's not impossible nor is it really gimmicky. Yes you can't always punish it if he's perfectly spaced. Key word is perfectly, so your job is to make sure you get in and punish.

Also tilts are comparatively speaking a pretty minior thing to overcome. MK's grab game on the other hand is a pretty good candidate for what shuts down Mario in the matchup.

If snake perfectly camps back??

I like that risk reward you have going there lol.
Not to say that you're completely incorrect or something, but unless you massively outskill the snake I don't see that working well for long term wins

I don't think you have to massively outskill the Snake to win this matchup with reasonable consistency. Vs Snake is only 45/55. It's more a tedious matchup than a difficult one anyway.

Off topic but I tried crouching against ZSS. Free powershields against so much of her stuff lmao.

 

[exdia_16]

a really big question what do you do when your in a jab situation?

 

[Matador]

Jab has such great mindgame potential, I do literally everything after it now. Besides the obvious stuff (jab to dsmash, jab to grab, etc.), there's:

Jab to spotdodge...

Jab to charged fsmash (in the other direction sometimes)...

Jab to SHdair...

A lot of it is character/player/percentage dependent tho. I'll jab to spotdodge a lot more vs DK/Marth/MK than vs like...Samus or Sonic since they're less likely to mash out something punishable between jab cancels.

When I'm BEING jabbed, I either mash nair, upB, or just hold shield if I think they're going to try to cancel it into something. If I'm feeling ballsy, I'll try dsmash.

 

[Omari]

@Exdia: What do you mean when you're in a jab situation? Jabbing or being jabbed? Explain, thanks

@Matador: May you explain what you followup jab, how you followup after jabbing (any) & why you're doing what you're doing. Helps gamer get a much better understanding & helps them think about those situations from a better perspective. I don't mean to come off as dictating (condescending etc) but that's how I feel when I read your post (rarely my own believe it or not). Usually, (even with myself) before I post I'll re-read it as if I were the reader & ask myself multiple questions in order to confirm that it's understandable.

Mashing versus timing may be the next topic I'd like to discuss. Good chance it will be

*Update to the OP coming soon! Les go

 

[Matador]

I gotchu, Omari

Super long post incoming...(honestly, this would be better as a guide, methinks!)

 

[Coolwhip]

I agree with matador, the jab game has mad potential.
There's alot of ways of mixing it up.

-(during jab cancel) jab>jab> traditional ppk (Total damage is 15%)
-jab>b-air
-jab>sh-dair
-(When opponent is by ledge) jab>jab>charge f-smash
it kinda puts my opponent in a tough/bad position to either spot dodge,
grab or roll behind me.

Retreating bair> Charge f-smash is my favorite setup kill move against aggro players
that approach with fair.

I would like to see you guys use more. 95% of the time i'm in sweet spot range.

 

[Omari]

@CoolWhip: That's my point. Sure, anyone can list random followups but what does that really mean? Don't take this personal BTW.

What options of theirs are you limiting/covering? Why are you doing this? If they do this, what can I do to cover that & this? What is their game-plan?

Mashers 4 example: Smashers who mash Matador said to spot dodge after jabbing? Wouldn't you shield instead? Does spot dodge come out faster? Supposed I'm the one exposed, now what? Active thinking like that is where the exp racks up.

 

[Orion*]

It's your job to make that an opportunity. Of course it's not easy to do, but it's not impossible nor is it really gimmicky. Yes you can't always punish it if he's perfectly spaced. Key word is perfectly, so your job is to make sure you get in and punish.

Also tilts are comparatively speaking a pretty minior thing to overcome. MK's grab game on the other hand is a pretty good candidate for what shuts down Mario in the matchup.

I don't think you have to massively outskill the Snake to win this matchup with reasonable consistency. Vs Snake is only 45/55. It's more a tedious matchup than a difficult one anyway.

[/quote]

1. No player is perfect, but in terms of a matchup we still need to assume high standards. If I am watching top level MKs vs a character with an exceptional dash shield such as MK, Marth or DDD or whatever you don't see them just getting shield grabbed like that (a much more consistent option in comparison to Mario's usmash for those characters).

2. Mario has much less significant range and options in comparison to those characters in a solid dash approach vs MK. It's not even like "Perfect" spacing which is what it is vs like DDD or your getting grabbed. It's just "Average" spacing and I'm safe. The fact that I don't have to worry about to much else option wise when your dashing also makes doing this a lot easier...

as for snake....

Na chill. I honestly think it's like 6:4 or something. It's definitely Snakes adv. I can't see it being pushed as an almost even matchup.

While I am generally optimistic about Mario's matchups overall, I also have to be realistic and unbiased as I can with myself. Unless there's something brand new // groundbreaking or a solid result/video reference it doesn't make sense to call that matchup almost even.

Mario has to work a LOT harder than snake does to win. Your tech skill, reactions, punishment, and application need to all be near perfect if you actually expect to win with this character, the same does Not hold true for snake. The type of play that you're expecting from the Mario seems more unrealistic than for MK to just not **** up basic spacing with tilts.

a really big question what do you do when your in a jab situation?

Think about what you want to do, and then do it.

/so serious
if you want your opponent above you, make a read and pick an option that does that.
same goes for offstage.
dead.
whatever.... just be realistic with yourself

 

[Omari]

Think about what you want to do, and then do it.

/so serious
if you want your opponent above you, make a read and pick an option that does that.
same goes for offstage.
dead.
whatever.... just be realistic with yourself

These are the answers that help inexperienced gamers think effectively & @ same time broaden their horizons (not have tunnel vision to say the least).

Although it may not seem like it, I happen to be competitive in multiple games besides smash & I find feedback similar to this helps immensely with leveling up (improving).

I recommend Cross Counter.............everything xD & any other help that betters our communities

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario has to work a LOT harder than snake does to win. Your tech skill, reactions, punishment, and application need to all be near perfect if you actually expect to win with this character, the same does Not hold true for snake. The type of play that you're expecting from the Mario seems more unrealistic than for MK to just not **** up basic spacing with tilts.

Nah, you don't actually have to work that hard.

It's more like "aw ****, why was I such an idiot when I let him tilt or nadeshield me?" every so often during the course of the match. It never is actually hard to play against Snake for most characters. Just tedious, and the worst part of the Snake matchup in tournament isn't actually playing the Snake, but maintaining your composure after playing him due to how long the matchup should be when played right. Mario can do some pretty stupid things to Snake that can quickly even the score. I will however say that you can't play like a scrub against Snake and you have to be paying attention to his habits. If you're willing to take forever though, you have all day to figure out his habits without doing anything really hard or risky.

 

[vato_break]

Against snake do the full jab. Also snake ***** mario hard, all the top tiers do.

 

[steep]

Against snake do the full jab. Also snake ***** mario hard, all the top tiers do.

What about Jab-Jab-Ftilt? Is this option good? Or does the slight delay of the ftilt compared to just doing the third jab make it a risky option?

 

[Sleek Media]

Snake is our easiest top tier match, by far. I've already explained before that we actually outcamp him. As long as we play it smart and avoid the usual shenanigans (nade shielding, tilt a, etc), we can keep beating him down. With Snake, it's all about keeping his shield low, and if you get him in the air, destroy him.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Ice Climbers, Diddy, or Olimar are our easiest top tier matches. Snake is like -1 or -2, he's probably one of the worst.

Here is a list of how hard top tier is for us, from the hardest at the top and the easiest at the bottom.

MK
----------------
Falco
Marth/Snake
----------------
Wario
----------------
ICs
Olimar/Diddy

I even separated it into tiers of difficulty. Camping sucks balls with Mario and we need to know that. It doesn't work better than anything else against most of the case, if not all of the cast. You're better off just playing passive defensively.

 

[Orion*]

Ice Climbers, Diddy, or Olimar are our easiest top tier matches. Snake is like -1 or -2, he's probably one of the worst.

all of those are -2 XD

cept oli.