Brawl's way forward

[Throwback]

OK we all know that melee players prefer melee. Actually when I put it like that it is pretty **** obvious....oh well lol. Anyway I see a lot of posts from good, respected players saying that melee > brawl. I can understand why they think that, melee is a fantastic game which they have been playing competitively for 6-7 years. Brawl is very very different, to the point where some melee players can't accept it. In fact the game has been changed so much that you are actually companing 2 different games, not just "Madden 07 and Madden 08". It's only natural that players of each smash game will prefer their chosen game! Brawl players need to understand this, and they need to accept it. Only then can they move forward and realise that just because hardcore melee players prefer melee (surprise surprise), that doesn't make Brawl worthless.

Whether melee players like it or not, Brawl players are the future. First up, there are more Brawl players than Melee. The people still playing melee are the hardcore few, anyone who played casually has moved on by now. This means that there is very little potential for growth in the melee scene. Not to mention that the game is not in production any more. Brawl on the other hand has heaps and heaps of players, the vast majority of whom are casual. They don't know about the competetive scene, because they weren't around for melee.

If we want the Australian Brawl scene to be successful then we have to make it happen. To expect players of a different game (melee) to build our competitive scene is not logical, and the current state of Australian smash is reflecting that. It is up to us to build the next generation of smash players. Brawl players are out there, no question. It is a matter of finding them, playing them and letting them know there is a scene that they can be part of.

 

[Bjay]

This thread is not gonna turn out pretty.

 

[ComboTurtle]

OK we all know that melee players prefer melee. Actually when I put it like that it is pretty **** obvious....oh well lol. Anyway I see a lot of posts from good, respected players saying that melee > brawl. I can understand why they think that, melee is a fantastic game which they have been playing competitively for 6-7 years. Brawl is very very different, to the point where some melee players can't accept it. In fact the game has been changed so much that you are actually companing 2 different games, not just "Madden 07 and Madden 08". It's only natural that players of each smash game will prefer their chosen game! Brawl players need to understand this, and they need to accept it. Only then can they move forward and realise that just because hardcore melee players prefer melee (surprise surprise), that doesn't make Brawl worthless.

Whether melee players like it or not, Brawl players are the future. First up, there are more Brawl players than Melee. The people still playing melee are the hardcore few, anyone who played casually has moved on by now. This means that there is very little potential for growth in the melee scene. Not to mention that the game is not in production any more. Brawl on the other hand has heaps and heaps of players, the vast majority of whom are casual. They don't know about the competetive scene, because they weren't around for melee.

If we want the Australian Brawl scene to be successful then we have to make it happen. To expect players of a different game (melee) to build our competitive scene is not logical, and the current state of Australian smash is reflecting that. It is up to us to build the next generation of smash players. Brawl players are out there, no question. It is a matter of finding them, playing them and letting them know there is a scene that they can be part of.

As far as i see it the australian brawl scene has no future, its getting scrapped from the melbourne scene in 2009 and i'd be more than happy to see it be scrapped from the nsw scene the only reason people even bother to play the game competitively is that its riding off the success of the melee scene, the game is ****ing *** and the only reason you play it is cause you dont have the skills required to play a good competitive game seriously and im not talking about just melee, there are alot of other great games around and brawl is not one of them. Also there are alot of players like me for example that are relatively new to melee in regards to its lifespan that have picked the game up and enjoyed it, which means im sure people who are willing to learn the game could too and saying that brawl is the future and building the next generation of smashers? and all that crap if you ever played a decent competitive game of melee and then went back to brawl it would make you sick... the game is so slow and boring to watch and to play and there is absolutely 0 tech skill required, i'd say the best skill in brawl is predicting air dodges and spot dodges thats about the only skill that goes into it. Anyways the game is terrible we all know it and hopefully its just a matter of time till the stupid fanboys that actually play this game realise it and wanna play a real game, either that or they **** off and go play mario kart wii and leave the real gaming to the real players. A good example for you will be at dont come when no one gives a rats *** about the brawl results and everyone is closely watching the melee finals and melee crews. Also im not just saying this because i'm bad at brawl im not terrible at the moment and im sure with a few days of looking up how to play the character matches and what ****ed up exploits my characters can perform i could easily beat 95% of the brawl players. I'd just finally like to reiterate the fact that brawl is **** and i now don't like you.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Why do they keep making new threads????

 

[Kulla]

This post makes me laugh, apparently in North America brawl is failing hardcore, and people are beginning to turn back to melee, and for very good reasons...

True Brawl and Melee are different games, however you have to compare them if your talking about which is more competitive, and melee wins out by far. I played both games, at high levels, being in several tourney finals for both Melee and Brawl. There is no question for me that Melee is not only more skill based, its a extreemly difficult game to be good at, but it also takes months and years of practice to get to the top in tourney rankings and skill levels... The flow of the game, which is what I love so much, is hard to master, its also punishing if you make mistakes...

Brawl isn't, its forgiving, easy to just pick up and play (sure not at top level), you dont have to master alot of really difficult techniques, its gameplay is slower, you can live to stupid percentages, recovery is easier, combos only barely exist... Over all its an easier game to master, therefore less competitive at high levels of play. Brawl is a shadow compared to Melee.

Brawl is not the future of Smash, Brawl has failed as a high level competitive game...it doesnt matter that there are more brawl players, the only reason there are is because its a new game...

Melee actually does have potential for growth, through Brawl....see as casual Brawl players enter into the competitive smash scene, its almost impossible to not be exposed to Melee. I know several people now, who started off playing Brawl, but couldnt resist the lure of the epicness the is Melee and have begun to learn. So I guess Brawl does have some positive aspects in regards to Melee.

But yeah...Brawl shall continue on as it is still a new game, eventually though...it will die out completly, there is no way it will ever last as long as melee has...In another thread I have Brawl a life span of three years or so...but now after hearing reports from various people about had bad Brawl is doing...I dont see it lasting until the end of next year as a tourney based competitive game.

 

[Throwback]

lololol. This thread isn't intended for brawl haters, just in case you can't figure that out.

edit to kulla: I guess we'll see.

 

[Kulla]

Indeed....

 

[Dekar289]

OK we all know that melee players prefer melee.

most brawl players prefer melee too

anyone who played casually has moved on by now. Brawl on the other hand has heaps and heaps of players, the vast majority of whom are casual.

the whole point of smashboards is to play these games competitively, ******

 

[Throwback]

I'm well aware how melee players feel, it's very obvious even without the flames. This thread is for people who like Brawl and want it to have a good competitive scene.

If brawl fails it fails. I can deal with it, I'd just prefer it not to.

 

[Gords]

I have to agree with Kulla on this one.

I myself are an example of the convertion back to melee he mentions. coming into the competitive smash scene only when brawl was released and planning to put melee as a casual game it has been for me the last 7 years, i have seen too much epic melee action during my time here to just let it pass. I have only really learnt the ATs of melee since QBB which showed me exactly what I was looking for, a fast passed game that requires more skill and wits than just knowledge to be great.

I have a long way to go as I still have none of these 3 attributes in any great quantity when it comes to melee.

Saying this though I will keep playing Brawl as long as there is a comunity there for me to be friends with but my focus is melee and has been since QBB. And it is my belief that melee will out live brawl and continue for well over the next 2 years, while brawl has 2 years at best.

My melee training improves my brawl game anyways, so excuse me while i go and practice my wavedash and shffling skills for dont come.

 

[CAOTIC]

Turtle - Shaz and I are both Melee players, so we have very little desire to continue a regular season of Brawl in 2009. At most, we'll alternate the game bi-monthly for fan service.

 

[ComboTurtle]

I'm well aware how melee players feel, it's very obvious even without the flames. This thread is for people who like Brawl and want it to have a good competitive scene.

If brawl fails it fails. I can deal with it, I'd just prefer it not to.

people who like brawl and want it to have a good competitive scene suck at life.

 

[Amaterasu]

people who like brawl and want it to have a good competitive scene suck at life.

Lol...
<3 Brawl + Melee

(>^^)>

 

[Toby.]

Harsh response guys.

I think its pretty clear that melee is more exciting to play and watch, and that it takes a lot more skill. I'll still play brawl while its around, though. I honestly don't see a problem with a thread thats just trying to keep brawl competitive. Just because a lot of people prefer melee it doesn't mean that people who want to do their best with brawl are idiots

To each his own.

 

[TakFR]

People who prefer Brawl really just want a less steep learning curve so they use their style of play with little to no practice in most cases and still place well. I ask you when was the last time you played Brawl to win when it was not being run in a tournament?

Also anyone here who is a melee hater because of "cheap wavedashing" can go **** themselves

 

[Redact]

its getting scrapped from the melbourne scene in 2009

i could only wish it was 100% true

 

[ComboTurtle]

i could only wish it was 100% true

i wish it got deleted off the planet, its about time one of your posts made me a little bit happier.

 

[SS Ben]

everyone who likes Brawl > Melee should spend the rest of this week training hardcore Melee, getting down the basic ATs and stuff, then after Don't Come I'm pretty sure you'll all have had enough melee experience to realise it's the superior game

 

[Vlade]

Melee certainly is a more competitive game, and it still isn't clear whether if brawl has potential or not, although a lot of people seem to think that it does not have any.

Melee was certainly deeper than brawl, and that is why it has lived for a long time as a truly competitive game.

 

[Vyse]

I have to say, I'm with Chris on this one. I want to see both games gain popularity and flourish.

---

(First of all this is not a Brawl vs. Melee thread (If this turns into one, so help me God...), this is a 'Let's get off our behinds and save Melee thread).

After reading Jack Kieser's thread in General Brawl Discussion 'The Final Nail: Why Brawl Can't Be Blamed for Melee's Problems' it got me thinking.

Instead of sitting around on SWF (Something I do an unhealthy amount of every day), arguing about who's fault it is as to the decline in Melee's popularity, we really should be discussing what it would take to get the competitive Melee scene back on track.

And so I believe that FAST got it right.

Many of the arguements being made in the aforementioned thread revolve around people (Melee Vets) being attracted to money, and being more willing to play Brawl for money, than play Melee and probably lose.

So my question is this:
Would Melee Vets be more willing to attend tournament that include both games?

My answer is:
Yes, probably.

Okay, so now you're thinking something along the lines of 'Duh idiot, this already happens'.
So why is Melee still in decline?

I'd say it's because the ratio of people willing to host these combined tournaments is far less than those only willing to host Brawl. Over the course of a single day, you'd be lucky to finish singles and doubles for Brawl, let alone Melee as well.

For Melee to survive in the long term, tourneys that support both games in the way FAST did needs to happen.

To take an extreme example, I'll take my own situation.

I'm at a geographical disadvantage. Living in Australia, with a Melee scene that started up well after Melee's release (At least, in my state), I'm lucky that a competitive Melee scene was ever established.

Brawl bought us online Wifi play.
Where do people go to set up online play?
Forums.

And thus the boatloads of Brawl age scrubs flocked to this website. Giving 'smash' as we know it, a significant boost in popularity.

Now, this was my state's chance to really boost the 'smash' scene in general. The console is popular (FYI, cube wasn't in Aus), the game is still new and everyone is still playing it (By everyone I mean casuals, etc.).

So, for the sake of heightening the competitive, combined smash scene in general, I decided to direct my state's first Brawl + Melee tournament, and should the expected numbers hold true, it should prove to be one of the largest in QLD and Australian history (It's in my sig, and don't laugh, 65-70 is ALOT for Aus).

Had I not decided to organise something of this scale, Brawl's competitive scene would still be nearly non-existent in my state, alot of people would never have discovered competitive smash, and Melee would still be floundering in limbo.

For me, it's less about favouring one game over the other, but keeping the competitive scene of both alive, for the chance that perhaps one day Melee will rise to its former popularity.

Now I realise that what I'm asking is for TO's everywhere to step up and follow the lead of FAST. And it's a tall order. With hundreds of people to co-ordinate over 4 days, **** happens, for lack of a better way to put it. And the money. It's not cheap to organize a 4 day event to be sure. I'm going to be placing $750 - $850 on my faith that I'll be recouping everything back on the day of the tournament I'm organizing at the moment.

So consider this:
If Smash is capable of producing so much money, it should warrant bigger tournaments.

So this means bigger tournaments, with room for Melee and Brawl. A tournament that can offer this as FAST did, will attract those great players as well. We must use Brawl, as a means of enhancing the 'smash' scene in general. I'm not saying that we should all be organising 4 day events. But I am saying we should be organising bigger and better tournaments in light of the larger smash scenes that have emerged. (Selfish as that is of me to say).

Now I never claim to be right, and right me if I'm wrong, which I most probably am. But this is just the way I see it for now.

This is all food for your thoughts to munch on. Like that thread I wrote on Tournament Pricing Mentality which never received a reply

I'm just sitting here hoping that somehow another golden year of smash could happen given enough support in the competitive community. Talking about a tournament a world away that I could only read about with piqued interest.

Spoiler

I do spend an unhealthy amount of time on here, Intermittently 7:30am to 4:30pm weekdays at work and for about 3-4 hours after work. I need some kind of nicotine patch.

Don't Come is yet another step in the right direction.

Fact is, Brawl is more popular with the mainstream. Brawl is a game that will see growth. Melee will only see growth as we introduce Brawl players to it.

Brawl is the crutch that is holding Melee up at the moment.

The Smash scene is what concerns me the most. Whether Brawl or Melee.

EDIT: The post I quoted is taken out of context as it applies to America more than Australia, since well, we aren't driven to tournaments for just money. But the principle still stands.

Brawl attracts more people, more people means the capacity to justify bigger tournaments which can fit both tournaments.

 

[TakFR]

Melee is a more competetive game because people found things that nintendo didn't want to put in or didn't realise it could be used to make the game faster.

Brawl has things that were not meant to be put in as well such as Dedede's chaingrab, which formed the basics to being a good dedede player.

Everytime nintendo puts in something by accident it becomes used as a technique for competive play, everytime nintendo screws up something for the casual player it becomes good for the competitive player.

 

[ComboTurtle]

Brawl is the crutch that is holding Melee up at the moment.

do you honestly think brawl would even have a competitive scene if it wasnt for melee? thats the most ******** thing ive heard anyone say. The thing thats holding the melee scene up at the moment is how good a game it is and how nearly everyone who played melee on a competitive level still loves to play such a great game on a competitive level... anyways i tend to disagree with nearly everything you say but that was the worst.

 

[Paff]

1. Until you're as skilled at Brawl as M2K, you don't get to complain about Brawl not requiring skill. You may complain about Brawl not requiring dexterity, which is mostly true, but valuing dexterity requirements in a game is pretty silly.

2. Both of these games are wonderful, and both should be played. This is good for the Melee-only players because Brawl can bring in new Smash players who can then pick up Melee. It's also more directly good for people like me, who enjoy playing both more than playing either. And it's good for the Brawl-only players because Brawl is involved. Everyone really just needs to get better at running tournaments with both games present.

 

[ComboTurtle]

1. Until you're as skilled at Brawl as M2K, you don't get to complain about Brawl not requiring skill. You may complain about Brawl not requiring dexterity, which is mostly true, but valuing dexterity requirements in a game is pretty silly.

2. Both of these games are wonderful, and both should be played. This is good for the Melee-only players because Brawl can bring in new Smash players who can then pick up Melee. It's also more directly good for people like me, who enjoy playing both more than playing either. And it's good for the Brawl-only players because Brawl is involved. Everyone really just needs to get better at running tournaments with both games present.

1. M2Ks winning tournaments comes from his knowledge of the game and match ups and natural mind games.

2. shut up.

 

[M]

I have to say, I'm with Chris on this one. I want to see both games gain popularity and flourish.

---



Don't Come is yet another step in the right direction.

Fact is, Brawl is more popular with the mainstream. Brawl is a game that will see growth. Melee will only see growth as we introduce Brawl players to it.

Brawl is the crutch that is holding Melee up at the moment.

The Smash scene is what concerns me the most. Whether Brawl or Melee.

EDIT: The post I quoted is taken out of context as it applies to America more than Australia, since well, we aren't driven to tournaments for just money. But the principle still stands.

Brawl attracts more people, more people means the capacity to justify bigger tournaments which can fit both tournaments.

Vyse wins.

And Turt, honestly, Melee has been around for 7-8 years or so. It was from the times of the Gamecube's launch. As much as I think Melee is ****ing orgasmic and should be gaining popularity from all over, at this age it's just not going to happen as much on its own, unless it gets re-released as one of the new Masterpieces remakes for the wii.

Atm, all of the newer players to the Melee scene are pretty much those who first experienced competitive Brawl. As they began to learn the depth of the games mechanics, their skills grew and they became better players in general. As time moves on, they get introduced to Melee, whose fast paced, tech filled combofest blows their minds. They play Melee. They love Melee. The end.

What I'm saying is that Brawl's big mainstream appearance has overshadowed Melee, but in turn, made Melee bigger by bringing more people to the competitive Smash community. I for sure can't tell how long the ride with either game will last. One thing I can say though, is that Melee would die faster if Brawl hadn't come along and given it another jumpstart. Both games need equal attention if the Smash community is to thrive for several more years.

<3 Smash

Somebody lock this thread soon...

 

[tedeth]

This discussion is pointless. People are just repeating eachother over and over again. Everyone knows what makes melee the more competitive game, we don't need everyone to look at this thread and post redundant opinions.

But in my redundant opinion, I don't see why brawl shouldn't have a competitve future. It's not like its taking anything away from the melee scene. If you don't like brawl then it stimple. DON'T PLAY IT! Telling people in effect, "You're an idiot because you have different opinions than me" is the most ******** thing you can say.

And if brawl doesn't have a competitive future, you might aswell not bag out the people that DO like it because when it dies everyone will be like "I don't want to get into the melee scene because it's full of people that do nothing but insulted me just for enjoying something they didn't."

 

[M]

Opinions are overrated. If people want facts they should just look at Brawl's sales figures.

 

[kupo]

Hai gaiz, whuz goin' on in dis thread?

Man, I thought this topic wouldnt exist if it werent for "Mod Brawl". Wtf? I thought that was the solution to keep majority happy. Not that I have anything against Melee at all [Brawl somewhat cos its a f*cking sh*t game] but, seriously...

...?

Forgive my ignorance as I havent been much around lately in the smash scene to keep up with everything to date and I have yet to see this "Mod Brawl" as it sounds too good to be true.

[I really have no idea ^]

What I'm saying is that Brawl's big mainstream appearance has overshadowed Melee, but in turn, made Melee bigger by bringing to people to the competitive Smash community. I for sure can't tell how long the ride with either game will last. One thing I can say though, is that Melee would die faster if Brawl hadn't come along and given it another jumpstart. Both games need equal attention if the Smash community is to thrive for several more years

/Thread

 

[Paff]

1. M2Ks winning tournaments comes from his knowledge of the game and match ups and natural mind games.

2. shut up.

1. And that isn't skill?

2. Your mom. Or something.

 

[ComboTurtle]

Vyse wins.

And Turt, honestly, Melee has been around for 7-8 years or so. It was from the times of the Gamecube's launch. As much as I think Melee is ****ing orgasmic and should be gaining popularity from all over, at this age it's just not going to happen as much on its own, unless it gets re-released as one of the new Masterpieces remakes for the wii.

Atm, all of the newer players to the Melee scene are pretty much those who first experienced competitive Brawl. As they began to learn the depth of the games mechanics, their skills grew and they became better players in general. As time moves on, they get introduced to Melee, whose fast paced, tech filled combofest blows their minds. They play Melee. They love Melee. The end.

What I'm saying is that Brawl's big mainstream appearance has overshadowed Melee, but in turn, made Melee bigger by bringing more people to the competitive Smash community. I for sure can't tell how long the ride with either game will last. One thing I can say though, is that Melee would die faster if Brawl hadn't come along and given it another jumpstart. Both games need equal attention if the Smash community is to thrive for several more years.

<3 Smash

Somebody lock this thread soon...

i dont even care if none of the brawl players come to melee, i like the melee players we have now and the brawl players have no skills and they smell bad.


edit: @ paff guy the mindgames come from melee and the other things come from having no life oh and my mother probably hates brawl too

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Jur mada...

 

[Vyse]

do you honestly think brawl would even have a competitive scene if it wasnt for melee? thats the most ******** thing ive heard anyone say. The thing thats holding the melee scene up at the moment is how good a game it is and how nearly everyone who played melee on a competitive level still loves to play such a great game on a competitive level... anyways i tend to disagree with nearly everything you say but that was the worst.

Mmm.
Point taken.

But I do believe my other points still stands. Instead of looking at Brawl as a hinderance, we have to take advantage of what it is. A magnet for the competitive smash scene.

Don't get me wrong. I love Melee for all the same reasons you do too. And I believe that maintaining the competitive scenes for both games is important for the smash scene to flourish.

I was the one telling everybody that Brawl sucks in the beginning, and people didn't want to hear it. And it's hard to deny that Melee is the more competitive game. I enjoy Melee and I enjoy Brawl for different reasons and other people too.

My opinion is influenced by what I believe will help preserve Smash in Australia in the long term. I'd be happy enough if Brawl was suddenly outlawed or something, but that's not going to happen.

 

[ComboTurtle]

<3 vyse im staying out of this thread from now on it makes my fingers angry.

 

[Vyse]

Okay I've said my part too, see you at Don't Come <3

 

[Sieg]

Captain Falcon.

The one reason Brawl is hated by many.

SAKURAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII HOW DARE YOU NERF FALCON!

 

[bylim5]

Everyone starts of casual is some aspects then turn competitive.

Maybe brawl can be of use to the melee scene, drawing in brawl players, expose them to melee and then make the melee scene grow larger. Tournaments could be a place for hardcores to capture casual souls and convert them!

I love both melee and brawl equally. As for melee, i played it very, very casually and then rejected it when brawl came out but after a few months, ive been drawn into melee and have started trying to get competitive because its fun and something new.
I'm also very pleased i finally got myself a copy of the game 3 months ago!!! yay.
Im also going to Don't Come and in melee crew battles (oh god help me!!! =s )
But yeah, I'm just using a personal testimony just to say that i like experiencing both melee and brawl scenes and ive also embraced melee more and more because of being exposed to the smash scene from initial interest in Brawl.


I still think its important to keep both to satisfy both old and new, 'casual' and 'hardcore'. Rotation is good if it doesnt satisfy everyone, even though Brawl and melee may seem different games, they're just different versions of Smash brothers. its important to support Smash brothers on a whole.

btw Melee music > Brawl music, that's fact.

 

[Amaterasu]

Well I think that Bryan sucks!
Bwhaha, and you can't saw melee music > brawl music, I have a recording clip of you singing boldly one of the brawl mother songs =P

 

[bylim5]

Well I think that Bryan sucks!
Bwhaha, and you can't saw melee music > brawl music, I have a recording clip of you singing boldly one of the brawl mother songs =P

i... hate you. lol. AND i was singing the mother songs which are from melee. duhr

I also challenge u to Wii Music since brawl and melee are for noobs, that doesnt fit our fully advanced hardcore-ness!
and its time to Smash on the N64 next week.

 

[Amaterasu]

Lol, my pikachu will give you nightmares in N64, you should go train - I'll prob vs you on friday/sat next week, better get ready =P
I've been playing smash 64 with the gc controller though, it still works once you get used to it