Brawl+, what codes to use ROTATION 2: lag cancels

[Finns7]

We already have talked about this months ago. It doesnt matter, what hacker is going to make this code? I agree with it and support it but most people on this site dont, and sadly they are the ones in charge of what codes get made or thought of. Unless you can ask someone to make a modification of the mad code it will sadly stay as it is.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

MAD's maneuverability can be emulated with a much less code intensive run cancel coupled with the dash dance. you have unlimited ground mobility. it feels great and looks natural and it won't alienate players that have only played brawl first.

what you guys have to understand is that the main audience for brawl competitive scene isn't melee people anymore, it's much expanded now. the target audience for brawl+ has the old competitive scene in mind, but it also has to take into consideration that there is new blood unfamiliar with smash games of ages past. some may have played smash since the beginning but it wasn't until brawl they decided to turn it up a notch.

by implementing MAD into an official codeset, you are alienating them. they weren't around in melee's prime, and don't understand why an enhanced version of brawl would need such a strange mechanic. the MAD looks very unnatural and the wavedash effect, although efficient and potent, looks quite alien and unsettling for someone unfamiliar with hacks and why we would even need them. someone who's never played with combos or the other hacks we are endorsing here would be distracted and almost certainly intimidated by the strangeness of the wavedash offered in brawl.

if you guys expect brawl+ to go anywhere, we need to let go of wavedashing, which's only purpose is to cater to our nostalgia for melee. We need to focus on the things that makes vanilla brawl uncompetitive, and the lack of wavedashing is not one of them.

 

[Kix]

We already have talked about this months ago. It doesnt matter, what hacker is going to make this code? I agree with it and support it but most people on this site dont, and sadly they are the ones in charge of what codes get made or thought of. Unless you can ask someone to make a modification of the mad code it will sadly stay as it is.

I'm saying they don't even need to but it would be nice. Everything else I've mentioned I think make it work fine anyway.

MAD's maneuverability can be emulated with a much less code intensive run cancel coupled with the dash dance. you have unlimited ground mobility. it feels great and looks natural and it won't alienate players that have only played brawl first.

what you guys have to understand is that the main audience for brawl competitive scene isn't melee people anymore, it's much expanded now. the target audience for brawl+ has the old competitive scene in mind, but it also has to take into consideration that there is new blood unfamiliar with smash games of ages past. some may have played smash since the beginning but it wasn't until brawl they decided to turn it up a notch.

by implementing MAD into an official codeset, you are alienating them. they weren't around in melee's prime, and don't understand why an enhanced version of brawl would need such a strange mechanic. the MAD looks very unnatural and the wavedash effect, although efficient and potent, looks quite alien and unsettling for someone unfamiliar with hacks and why we would even need them. someone who's never played with combos or the other hacks we are endorsing here would be distracted and almost certainly intimidated by the strangeness of the wavedash offered in brawl.

if you guys expect brawl+ to go anywhere, we need to let go of wavedashing, which's only purpose is to cater to our nostalgia for melee. We need to focus on the things that makes vanilla brawl uncompetitive, and the lack of wavedashing is not one of them..

I don't see how. As I've already mention, you can't use those codes to get around hitboxes like you can with WDing and can you start up moves with momentum forward and backwards? What about the unblockables? A defensive move instead of SHFF for mindgames?

Who cares about alienating some people if you can make the game better? You are telling me you would want the game to have much less depth because it will alienate some people. I don't care about those people, we can split two games, or they can play old Brawl if they want.

 

[Dizzynecro]

Yeah gameplay is far more important than aesthetics, and looking weird is certainly no reason to not increase the depth of the game.

 

[kupo15]

I don't see how. As I've already mention, you can't use those codes to get around hitboxes like you can with WDing and can you start up moves with momentum forward and backwards? What about the unblockables? A defensive move instead of SHFF for mindgames?
.

Yeah gameplay is far more important than aesthetics, and looking weird is certainly no reason to not increase the depth of the game.

Yea, because the game needs a single technique to get around all the moves that are suppose to be difficult for your character to deal with. That surely adds depth if you ask me....

 

[Kix]

Yea, because the game needs a single technique to get around all the moves that are suppose to be difficult for your character to deal with. That surely adds depth if you ask me....

It doesn't necessarily get around all moves just like guard impacting doesn't get around all moves. It still is very punishable, would be strict and wouldn't be some absolute easy technique that just works.

I wish you guys were some other fighting game community because I think it would be a lot easier for you guys to recognize what you have here. No one even noticed the unblockables, which would have been noticed practically immediately.

Since when does this technique eliminate the others?

 

[Finns7]

Brawl+ has SOOO many more possible hacks that are just as hardcore as WD. Its not really for nostalgia I could care less. If we expect Brawl+ to go anywhere I suggest we scrap like 60 percent of the other codes and only leave in some form of hitstun and no trip with the grab release stuff gone. Once we added the other codes It entered the point of no return. Brawl+ without wding is still very diff from normal brawl.

The mad code was not even finished it has potential. Not everyone feels the same way you guys do about it, after spending time with it, it felt way better than brawl's airdodge. The Mad code already gave me a dash cancel, triple jump fix months ago.

I want people to give both a shot and not just listen to the negatives of one.

 

[Osi]

I was all for MAD a few weeks back, but then some more codes hit. The main one would be dash dancing and dash canceling for me. About 70% of the cast have a dash dance long enough to dash in then out of range -> dash back in with a crouch cancel right in front of the opponent into any attack. I really feel like a lot of the ground game was fixed with dash dancing, and it will work even better if a momentum code comes. The main worry for me is that MAD helps slower low tier characters agility and it does a lot for the edge game. Personally I'm in the BAD side with the fast fall/SH/edge/dash dancing/dash cancel/gravity codes out now that speed up gameplay. The MAD code is nice and all, but for me it doesn't offer enough new content for the code space.

 

[Kix]

I was all for MAD a few weeks back, but then some more codes hit. The main one would be dash dancing and dash canceling for me. About 70% of the cast have a dash dance long enough to dash in then out of range -> dash back in with a crouch cancel right in front of the opponent into any attack. I really feel like a lot of the ground game was fixed with dash dancing, and it will work even better if a momentum code comes. The main worry for me is that MAD helps slower low tier characters agility and it does a lot for the edge game. Personally I'm in the BAD side with the fast fall/SH/edge/dash dancing/dash cancel/gravity codes out now that speed up gameplay. The MAD code is nice and all, but for me it doesn't offer enough new content for the code space.

WDing still works different, the unblockables are a BIG deal that no one has addressed and I think that tactics such as what I have mentioned would help people deal with characters like MK. Does that not offer you a lot? I don't think people have really extensively messed with this. At least it seems like it.

If it can fit in the code, then why not? I see the point about slower characters but it's still not as if everyone's WD is the same and if we have a faster start to run as I think I saw discussed then?

 

[Me_Aludes]

Some random things:
* MAD code is not Melee Air Dodge. You can change directions while airdodging, you can't waveland/wavedash off plataforms, wavedashes are longer and can be buffered pretty easily (though this can be solved using buffer mod).
* MAD code is buggy. It actually is. Sometimes, somehow, you are able to move after an AD. And yes, I'm using the last MAD code. I noticed that while playing a CPU, but I have no idea why it happens. No video, but you can go and play against a CPU in your own, and it may happen.
* Brawl's ground movement sucks. If you want to use MAD, you should also use DD/DC/Dash Speed Mod, so wavedashes are no longer your best option. Without all this stuff, wavedashing is ALWAYS your best option.
* "As for the wavedashing hack, it does make the game significantly more fun and not because of wavedashing. Now that people only have a single directional airdodge, people can't spam airdodge to get out of juggles and edgeguarding is more fun now that people can't ever airdodge to not get hit if you go off the stage and chase them." QFT. IMO, MAD does make edgeguarding better than any other code.
* MAD won't be used in Brawl+ because of line limit. If we can't change that, it just won't be used.

 

[smash superstar]

To me MAD would only work well if the game was not so floaty...but because of the floating it might be better to stick with BAD.

so it is kind of a Tie for me.

 

[storm92]

-Wavedashing homogenizes movement, period.
When will you ever walk or dash as a main movement technique when you can simply WD across a stage with a large number of chars? See Ganon, Luigi, etc.
-The current code is broken, even with the buffering code you can still stack; it just takes slightly more skill.
-The code limit.
-With floatiness, MAD basically takes away the use of an AD, as people can punish you.

 

[Kix]

Some random things:
* MAD code is not Melee Air Dodge. You can change directions while airdodging, you can't waveland/wavedash off plataforms, wavedashes are longer and can be buffered pretty easily (though this can be solved using buffer mod).
* MAD code is buggy. It actually is. Sometimes, somehow, you are able to move after an AD. And yes, I'm using the last MAD code. I noticed that while playing a CPU, but I have no idea why it happens. No video, but you can go and play against a CPU in your own, and it may happen.
* Brawl's ground movement sucks. If you want to use MAD, you should also use DD/DC/Dash Speed Mod, so wavedashes are no longer your best option. Without all this stuff, wavedashing is ALWAYS your best option.
* "As for the wavedashing hack, it does make the game significantly more fun and not because of wavedashing. Now that people only have a single directional airdodge, people can't spam airdodge to get out of juggles and edgeguarding is more fun now that people can't ever airdodge to not get hit if you go off the stage and chase them." QFT. IMO, MAD does make edgeguarding better than any other code.
* MAD won't be used in Brawl+ because of line limit. If we can't change that, it just won't be used.

There may be a reason that you are able to move after the AD, or only the CPUs which does not matter.

I agree that you should use those other codes, then everything has viable uses. Still WDing adds so much to the game, yet not many seem to care about that. If you did use the other codes besides space there is a "I don't like it." and why is it that no one cares to find a better working one anymore?

Why not try making the code shorter, as I'm sure a HAD would make it? It's still one of the better things that's happened to the game apart from gravity, shield stun, hit stun and no tripping.

-Wavedashing homogenizes movement, period.
When will you ever walk or dash as a main movement technique when you can simply WD across a stage with a large number of chars? See Ganon, Luigi, etc.
-The current code is broken, even with the buffering code you can still stack; it just takes slightly more skill.
-The code limit.
-With floatiness, MAD basically takes away the use of an AD, as people can punish you.

With a faster start up to dash it would not. Are you interested in increasing the depth of the game since we have the potential to or not?

So what if people can punish you? See here again if we had HAD, how many people would be complaining? Hackers would you even care to do this while simultaneously shortening the code (maybe)?

 

[Tornadith]

BAD>>>>>>>MAD

People just need to get used to the BAD. People are still kind of on MAD so they want it back. Get good at BAD and Brawl and then there you go.

It's understandable that after 7 years, people are still on Melee, but seriously. The change has to happen sometime. Soon hopefully.

 

[johe]

I really like MAD, I feel it adds a lot of depth to the game. That being said, it shoudn't be in the final codeset simply because even more depth can be added via other, smaller codes taking its place.

 

[storm92]

Honestly, I don't think it adds depth to the game haha.
Sure, you can approach with a few extra moves, but you can also do so with Dash Cancel+Dash Dance.
You can WD to smash, but you can do that already by walking or pivoting.
In my mind all it does is make it so WD is used primarily for everything, because it would be. If you look at Melee WD, it was used almost entirely for spacing, with the exceptions of Fox/Falco who used it for waveshining. In Brawl+, WD is used for everything. Primary movement, movement to lead up to attacks, spacing, what else couldn't I name that WD would be better than dash/walking for besides the few chars who have a faster dash than stacked WDs.
As I said before, it isn't adding depth to the game. On the contrary, it makes it so you can simply WD into anything, where before you had to use another technique or movement that was intended in the game (don't worry, I know the game designers knew it was in Melee, I don't think it was a glitch or anything) to do the same thing. There's no reason to have almost a third of our coding space taken up by a code that simply replaces other forms of movement.

 

[Finns7]

You can wavedash and waveland off platforms, Idk how long some of you played with the code from some of your arguments. I dont agree about the every char will wavedash and it be the same, that is not true, some chars wd is not that good with 1 buffer, Can someone give me a video of zss or bowser stacking with 1 buffer. We had that (unfinsihed) Mad code for like months now which already gave me the codes created now, if you add it up it basically equals the mad code.

Storm you dont think the wding adds any depth to the game.

Tornadith its not the melee I have been enjoying brawl since it came out, until I get CGed with no skill and trip.

 

[Problem2]

I also vote for BAD over MAD. My biggest concern is the edge guarding with the MAD code on. With the MAD code, you are not only limited to one air dodge, but you are invulnerable afterwords until you land. This creates a serious imbalance off ledge. Zelda is my favorite example. There is very little and sometimes nothing you can do about Din's Fire. If you're too far to recover after MAD, then you have no choice but to take the hit. R.O.B also creates a similar situation with his lasers and unsurprisingly many of Metaknight's moves too.

With the hitstun codes on, players are unable to escape combos by simply air dodging, even in BAD. The only time that air dodging is available is when attacking or other actions are available, so having BAD won't be this god send of a dodge. If it wasn't there, players would simply use an attack to protect themselves with it's hitbox.

 

[kupo15]

You can wavedash and waveland off platforms, Idk how long some of you played with the code from some of your arguments. I dont agree about the every char will wavedash and it be the same, that is not true, some chars wd is not that good with 1 buffer, Can someone give me a video of zss or bowser stacking with 1 buffer. We had that (unfinsihed) Mad code for like months now which already gave me the codes created now, if you add it up it basically equals the mad code.

Storm you dont think the wding adds any depth to the game.

Tornadith its not the melee I have been enjoying brawl since it came out, until I get CGed with no skill and trip.

That really made me laugh. Maybe you should actually pay attention to what your character is doing instead of claiming he is doing something he is not.

 

[Finns7]

You can waveland on platforms/stages and wavedash off.

 

[cobaltblue]

I think the easy solution to this is to have the pro mad people grab a coder or two and get the code made themselves. The mad/bad system completely different from each other which means once you start down one path you can't go back and start readjusting and twinking the supporting codes that goes with it. So to expect the current people working in the B+ thread with hitstun, shieldstun, etc to just toss away weeks of work and start all over again is idiotic.

Basically what I'm saying is that if MAD truly offers more than BAD then a leader needs to emerge much like kupo did and start heading it up and getting people to test values. Could doing this split the B+ scene? I don't think so at this stage in the game since BAD at least seems to be hitting alpha stages and the public at large still doesn't know what all B+ does.

O and my opinion on the poll is BAD > MAD if only for better air game, code space, and less alienation.

 

[kupo15]

You can waveland on platforms/stages and wavedash off.

You can not wavedash off >.>

 

[Finns7]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=aiLFgg8JvKI 4:09 I wavedash and slide off the platform, maybe im thinking of the wrong thing. Countless times I wavedash off the ledge with falcon and ganon and upair

 

[Kix]

BAD>>>>>>>MAD

People just need to get used to the BAD. People are still kind of on MAD so they want it back. Get good at BAD and Brawl and then there you go.

It's understandable that after 7 years, people are still on Melee, but seriously. The change has to happen sometime. Soon hopefully.

It's understandable that people don't like MAD, but seriously. It has to happen.

Honestly, I don't think it adds depth to the game haha.
Sure, you can approach with a few extra moves, but you can also do so with Dash Cancel+Dash Dance.
You can WD to smash, but you can do that already by walking or pivoting.
In my mind all it does is make it so WD is used primarily for everything, because it would be. If you look at Melee WD, it was used almost entirely for spacing, with the exceptions of Fox/Falco who used it for waveshining. In Brawl+, WD is used for everything. Primary movement, movement to lead up to attacks, spacing, what else couldn't I name that WD would be better than dash/walking for besides the few chars who have a faster dash than stacked WDs.
As I said before, it isn't adding depth to the game. On the contrary, it makes it so you can simply WD into anything, where before you had to use another technique or movement that was intended in the game (don't worry, I know the game designers knew it was in Melee, I don't think it was a glitch or anything) to do the same thing. There's no reason to have almost a third of our coding space taken up by a code that simply replaces other forms of movement.

What if running is used for primary movement? Does that decrease depth? What if you run into things you want to do? Do you think that being in the air is useless? Do you think if someone does it wrong or in the wrong situation it cannot be countered? WDing is still different from CC run into something or using other methods.

Why not attempt to edit the code, or just increase the start up of run? Who says the code can't be shorter? No one is attempting to help the situation at all and it's because you guys just don't like the concept even if it makes the game have a lot more depth.

I also vote for BAD over MAD. My biggest concern is the edge guarding with the MAD code on. With the MAD code, you are not only limited to one air dodge, but you are invulnerable afterwords until you land. This creates a serious imbalance off ledge. Zelda is my favorite example. There is very little and sometimes nothing you can do about Din's Fire. If you're too far to recover after MAD, then you have no choice but to take the hit. R.O.B also creates a similar situation with his lasers and unsurprisingly many of Metaknight's moves too.

With the hitstun codes on, players are unable to escape combos by simply air dodging, even in BAD. The only time that air dodging is available is when attacking or other actions are available, so having BAD won't be this god send of a dodge. If it wasn't there, players would simply use an attack to protect themselves with it's hitbox.

Okay so you take a hit. So what? So would you be complaining if we had a HAD which no one cares to work on? It's not true that a player would only use attacks to protect themselves, otherwise they wouldn't even need air dodge in the first place. The fact that you can direct it decently far makes it better than BAD in situations. You could do it toward a ledge.

 

[kupo15]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=aiLFgg8JvKI 4:09 I wavedash and slide off the platform, maybe im thinking of the wrong thing. Countless times I wavedash off the ledge with falcon and ganon and upair

Dude...no!!!!

You just wavedash to the edge...the edge stopped all of your slide, and you walked off....

@_@

 

[Finns7]

It was like WD buffer in the movement actually It does stop your glide at the edge though but if your really close its more of a (WD)(input)=slide off stage, then WD+input=. Its diff from melee's but I adjusted. I dont mind pressing forward after i wavedash.

 

[kupo15]

It was like WD buffer in the movement actually It does stop your glide at the edge though but if your really close its more of a (WD)(input)=slide off stage, then WD+input=. Its diff from melee's but I adjusted. I dont mind pressing forward after i wavedash.

o_O

YOU CANT WAVEDASH SLIDE OFF THE STAGE!!!!!

Do a wavedash right next to the stage but not close enough to accidentally walk off and you will NOT slide off because you CANT!!! You CANT wavedash off and do an aerial like in melee. The edges don't work that way!!!

 

[Dark Sonic]

It was like WD buffer in the movement actually It does stop your glide at the edge though but if your really close its more of a (WD)(input)=slide off stage, then WD+input=. Its diff from melee's but I adjusted. I dont mind pressing forward after i wavedash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y57Yq6tEq9w&feature=channel_page
4:35

Do what RIP did

Oh wait, you can't because you'll stop at the end of the platform.

 

[Dizzynecro]

o_O

YOU CANT WAVEDASH SLIDE OFF THE STAGE!!!!!

Do a wavedash right next to the stage but not close enough to accidentally walk off and you will NOT slide off because you CANT!!! You CANT wavedash off and do an aerial like in melee. The edges don't work that way!!!

What he means is that it will get you as close to the edge as possible so you can get an instant walk of(which is the same effect.)

 

[Dark Sonic]

What he means is that it will get you as close to the edge as possible so you can get an instant walk of(which is the same effect.)

Not even close dude. The main appeal of wavedashing off platforms is to do it very quickly while facing backwards (normally so you can hit the guy that's under the platform, since most characters have better fairs than bairs).

 

[Deleted member]

it also was a common edgehog tactic

 

[Dark Sonic]

it also was a common edgehog tactic

But we already have hugging.

And I wish more people would realize that I've played (and still play) melee competitively.

I said the main use of wavelanding off platforms is to still be facing foward, so that you can either drop down and grab the ledge or hit someone that's under the platform. If you didn't need to be facing forward, then it's often much faster to just dash off the platform.

 

[storm92]

It's understandable that people don't like MAD, but seriously. It has to happen.



What if running is used for primary movement? Does that decrease depth? What if you run into things you want to do? Do you think that being in the air is useless? Do you think if someone does it wrong or in the wrong situation it cannot be countered? WDing is still different from CC run into something or using other methods.

Why not attempt to edit the code, or just increase the start up of run? Who says the code can't be shorter? No one is attempting to help the situation at all and it's because you guys just don't like the concept even if it makes the game have a lot more depth.

I had no problem against MAD, I was a huge supporter of it at first, but then I saw the problems with it in this game. It simply does not work.
The thing is, running is the primary movement. It has been in all the Smash games, from 64-->Melee-->Vanilla Brawl.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a mechanic that was meant to be the primary movement option the actual primary movement tool. We have DD, Dash Cancel, and pivots: that's all we need. It takes over MAD's entire purpose with a lot less coding, not to mention keeping BAD which actually works amazingly in Brawl+.
You keep saying that WD adds depth to the game, but I ask how?! I've already said that you can do the same things with existing movement techniques, and the only thing I see is wavelanding; with this we don't even get edgehogging any more, and we don't need it with hugging.
So I ask you, why continue trying to push for a code which truly is a ridiculous amount of lines, when it doesn't even come close to having the appropriate proportional benefits?
It adds wavelanding and stacking. K. One of those is not even a good thing.

We also say the code can't be shorter because it's unfinished. We would need to add some landing lag, which only adds more lines, even if we can cut it by 10.

 

[Deleted member]

ok, people it's clear what the outcome is. starting tomorrow we will discuss the various lag cancels

 

[Deleted member]

Ideally, I would prefer a single (or a limited amount of BADs), If not, HAD.
MAD gimps recoveries, and BAD doesn't help the game be less defensive and campy.

 

[storm92]

Ideally, I would prefer a single (or a limited amount of BADs), If not, HAD.
MAD gimps recoveries, and BAD doesn't help the game be less defensive and campy.

The new combo system makes the entire game less defensive and campy, and hitstun combined with gravity means you rarely ever get more than one BAD off.

 

[kupo15]

The best nerf I see for the air dodge would be to disable Air dodging during the tumble. Keep BAD

 

[Kix]

I had no problem against MAD, I was a huge supporter of it at first, but then I saw the problems with it in this game. It simply does not work.
The thing is, running is the primary movement. It has been in all the Smash games, from 64-->Melee-->Vanilla Brawl.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a mechanic that was meant to be the primary movement option the actual primary movement tool. We have DD, Dash Cancel, and pivots: that's all we need. It takes over MAD's entire purpose with a lot less coding, not to mention keeping BAD which actually works amazingly in Brawl+.
You keep saying that WD adds depth to the game, but I ask how?! I've already said that you can do the same things with existing movement techniques, and the only thing I see is wavelanding; with this we don't even get edgehogging any more, and we don't need it with hugging.
So I ask you, why continue trying to push for a code which truly is a ridiculous amount of lines, when it doesn't even come close to having the appropriate proportional benefits?
It adds wavelanding and stacking. K. One of those is not even a good thing.

We also say the code can't be shorter because it's unfinished. We would need to add some landing lag, which only adds more lines, even if we can cut it by 10.

No it does not. You are not reading what I have said. It does not take over MAD's entire purpose. Sliding forward or in reverse at different levels and being able to start up moves while still moving forward and retreating it not the same. You don't need to start moving again. Once you stop to do a move you are not moving. They are not the same. The speed and way it looks is not the same.

Once again you are showing that you are not taking into account my points. Although it makes you more vulnerable as you go airborne you can dodge though attacks with a long WD into moves. You can create unblockables, which helps the close air game. I think the way it moves you combined with those two things will be a huge balancing factor, but you have to have the skill and judgment to know when to use them.

So how doesn't it increase depth? Here's an example; do you think Luigi could slide into a guard string with multiple attacks while putting them in guard stun without this? No. I would like WDing to put you off the cliff and again some people want you to be able to act afterward. SO THEN WHY ARE THERE NO CODERS TO TRY TO SHORTEN THE LENGTH OF THE CODE? Then the code length wouldn't be a problem and it would seem to make more people happy.

Excluding the landing lag and increasing run speed I think would make things well enough anyway. It may very well be the case that HAD with landing lag may be a quite a bit lower.

 

[Revven]

SO THEN WHY ARE THERE NO CODERS TO TRY TO SHORTEN THE LENGTH OF THE CODE?

Because there's no way to make it shorter, it needed to be written in ASM as it's new coding for the game. PW had to add directions to the AD and change the amount of frames it lasts as well as restrict attacking and Up Bing after the AD (anything after it actually). All of this is written in ASM which is a code type that is used for this type of stuff. It depends on what you wanna do with the ASM that makes the code longer and what PW had to do was going to be long, I expected it to be long when he first started to work on it.

You can't shorten it. Adding lag to the WD would add more lines, the best you could do is remove the restriction of anything after the AD and remove the amount of frames it lasts that PW made changes to. And, God knows how many lines those take up, I figure what takes up the MOST amount of lines is the directional input because there's 8 specific directions you can go in with an AD and each input would take up either one line or double that. Either way, the directional input is probably what takes up the most of the lines because it's something new added to the AD that wasn't there before.

Nothing can shorten MAD, you'd have to create a whole new code and even THAT could be longer (HAD is what I am referring to).

 

[Kix]

Because there's no way to make it shorter, it needed to be written in ASM as it's new coding for the game. PW had to add directions to the AD and change the amount of frames it lasts as well as restrict attacking and Up Bing after the AD (anything after it actually). All of this is written in ASM which is a code type that is used for this type of stuff. It depends on what you wanna do with the ASM that makes the code longer and what PW had to do was going to be long, I expected it to be long when he first started to work on it.

You can't shorten it. Adding lag to the WD would add more lines, the best you could do is remove the restriction of anything after the AD and remove the amount of frames it lasts that PW made changes to. And, God knows how many lines those take up, I figure what takes up the MOST amount of lines is the directional input because there's 8 specific directions you can go in with an AD and each input would take up either one line or double that. Either way, the directional input is probably what takes up the most of the lines because it's something new added to the AD that wasn't there before.

Nothing can shorten MAD, you'd have to create a whole new code and even THAT could be longer (HAD is what I am referring to).

Oh, okay. It seems like since HAD is closer to the games normal code it would take less lines. A new code wouldn't be a bad idea but I don't even think it is necessary.