Brawl, Smash 4 and Xyro. Texas TOs, please read.

[Xyro77]

LMAO alright alright!

Lets get back on topic

 

[RT]

In regards to character banning, if the character possesses properties or mechanics that break the core fundamentals of a game, it should be banned.

SFII Akuma was banned because the game wasn't designed to handle diagonal fireballs. No one can argue this fact.

As far as MK...well, it's been repeated enough times how much he breaks several game mechanics (ledge invincibility frames, IDC glitch makes him DISAPPEAR and grant complete invulnerability, excessive number of recovery options, high priority on almost all moves, etc)

Combine this with his overall character usage (probably closer to 50% than any other character, which is significant in a game with 37 characters), large number of tournament wins.

And these are all unbiased facts. You have to see the situation from an objective point of view, which I believe most people cannot do.

Can this prevented in the next Smash?

It depends on the overall attitude of the community and how they choose to handle it.

 

[Xyro77]

I really don't think a smash game will ever get to the point to where the majority of the community will ban a character. If we can't do it in brawl, we will never be able to do it in smash 4.

I just ask that future smash 4 TOs to pay close attention. Take yourself/your friends out of the equation and see what you feel is best for the game. Try and make things as fair as possible without going to an extreme.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

I agree on everything you pointed out in the OP, Xyro, except for maybe the tourneys once a month. For me, that's not enough. I'd rather attend a tourney just about every weekend if I can. I guess the majority can't handle that much, but it will be something I'm willing (and wanting) to do.

Just to point out that the FGC tend to host weeklies for their games, I don't see how the smash community can't. Maybe at least, AT LEAST TWO tourneys a month, biweekly to be exact since it will be closer to that ideal time spacing you express.

Just my 2 rupees.

 

[UltimateRazer]

I think he means for each city in order to promote travel and growth. Back when Brawl was alive, there was Houston, Dallas, San Anantonio, Austin and RGV or more. There's only about 4 weekends a month. Imagine if a city like Dallas hosted a tourney each weekend. Those Dallas people would just go to those and the other cities around wouldn't have a chance to host and achieve max attendance. It just goes back to the state as a whole working together to produce a vibrant community with max numbers, max competition and max enjoyability. Numbers suffer if there are events every weekend.

Plus not everyone (maybe even most) are like you. There's a point where you may get burned out for smash and want a break which lowers attendance. Having a set big tournament per month where everyone is encouraged can go to does everything I said above. Don't put local precedence over regional precedence.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Well yeah, the same city doesn't need to host more than one tourney a month when there are other cities around. I get what you mean.
Maybe we should host a circuit, and have a couple local tournies in between.
But either way, I'll be fine with a monthly for the entire state of Texas, but I'll still have my preference.
Also, for Smash 4 I'm gonna be more of a player if not just that instead of a TO. I'm sure Denti or some other person will step up and host tournies in DFW. If not, then I'll step up, although being a player and a TO at the same time can be stressful.

 

[Tesh]

I think everyone should have lots of locals first before we start doing that circuit stuff. Nothing big like HOBO every week or something, but I think for people that are willing to travel, you dont need a whole month between each tournament. Not when the game is fresh and exciting anyway.

Also, Xyro, Brawl isn't hacked so much because its bad. Its hacked because its so easy and free. If I wanted to hack my gamecube, I wouldn't know where to begin. I'd probably have to open it up and buy some kind of chip (no idea). Its waaaaaaaaaaaay easier to just be able to put some stuff onto an SD card and turn the system on. In the end, support usually just dies out for these hack projects. Project M is unfinished and young, but I don't see it lasting more than another year or so. If the Wii U is as easily broken as the Wii, we will see it again....because its fun to tinker with the game.

I really only skimmed the OP, but I agree with about half of what I read.

 

[Xyro77]

I agree on everything you pointed out in the OP, Xyro, except for maybe the tourneys once a month. For me, that's not enough. I'd rather attend a tourney just about every weekend if I can. I guess the majority can't handle that much, but it will be something I'm willing (and wanting) to do.

Just to point out that the FGC tend to host weeklies for their games, I don't see how the smash community can't. Maybe at least, AT LEAST TWO tourneys a month, biweekly to be exact since it will be closer to that ideal time spacing you express.

Just my 2 rupees.

Almost everyone wants to go to an event every single weekend. that is why i said that if each city held one event a month it would promote traveling (which makes you better) AND it would feed your smash appetite.

I think he means for each city in order to promote travel and growth. Back when Brawl was alive, there was Houston, Dallas, San Anantonio, Austin and RGV or more. There's only about 4 weekends a month. Imagine if a city like Dallas hosted a tourney each weekend. Those Dallas people would just go to those and the other cities around wouldn't have a chance to host and achieve max attendance. It just goes back to the state as a whole working together to produce a vibrant community with max numbers, max competition and max enjoyability. Numbers suffer if there are events every weekend.

Plus not everyone (maybe even most) are like you. There's a point where you may get burned out for smash and want a break which lowers attendance. Having a set big tournament per month where everyone is encouraged can go to does everything I said above. Don't put local precedence over regional precedence.

or just read this beautiful post^

Well yeah, the same city doesn't need to host more than one tourney a month when there are other cities around. I get what you mean.
Maybe we should host a circuit, and have a couple local tournies in between.
But either way, I'll be fine with a monthly for the entire state of Texas, but I'll still have my preference.
Also, for Smash 4 I'm gonna be more of a player if not just that instead of a TO. I'm sure Denti or some other person will step up and host tournies in DFW. If not, then I'll step up, although being a player and a TO at the same time can be stressful.

Circuits will fail if done immediately. We need a group of RELIABLE tournament organizers who are willing to put the circuit and its rules FIRST. Look at brawl, the first circuit went perfectly but the 2nd was terrible because i relied on people like nike (who didnt really care), denti (who bailed at the last moment) and IceCream (who literally didnt follow rules). I couldnt go anywhere else because there were a few cities who literally DIED (austin/rgv/corpus....ect). Until new TOs appear, current TOs start caring or until cities revive themselves, a circuit will auto fail.


Anyways, you can do what you want with smash 4 because i cant stop you. but when people refuse to work together we get what we have now..........a dead/weak state.

 

[Nike.]

Circuits will fail if done immediately. We need a group of RELIABLE tournament organizers who are willing to put the circuit and its rules FIRST. Look at brawl, the first circuit went perfectly but the 2nd was terrible because i relied on people like nike (who didnt really care), denti (who bailed at the last moment) and IceCream (who literally didnt follow rules). I couldnt go anywhere else because there were a few cities who literally DIED (austin/rgv/corpus....ect). Until new TOs appear, current TOs start caring or until cities revive themselves, a circuit will auto fail.

The reason I couldn't host the San Antonio event was because I moved, the same month SA was supposed to host.

This past weekend I just ran the smoothest 64 man bracket in 5 hours because I spent multiple days preparing for it.

I care.

 

[Espy Rose]

It was pretty damn awesome too.

 

[Xyro77]

The reason I couldn't host the San Antonio event was because I moved, the same month SA was supposed to host.

This past weekend I just ran the smoothest 64 man bracket in 5 hours because I spent multiple days preparing for it.

I care.

THE CIRCUIT FAILED BECAUSE OF YOU!

YOU DONT ARE ABOUT US OR ANYBODY!

F YOU AND F OFF YOU MARTH MAIN BICH!

F SAN ANTONIO!

F CLOUD!

 

[Sinister Slush]

Yes yes, but what is Cloud doing?

 

[RT]

 

[OAM]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say that the current-gen Brawl scene can be saved. Coming from a traditional fighter background of a very very long time, I have always considered the "traditional" FGC to be much more toxic and more or less the vehicle of a few well-known people (Justin Wong, Ricky Ortiz, Fanatiq, Noel Brown, maybe SherryJenix), to which the crowd-at-large follows. It's also very well-known that there's a lot of bad blood between the traditional and Smash communities. I posted on my personal Facebook wall about how I played Brawl last night with our scene here in Tyler (To be honest, I don't own a Wii but have been playing a couple of months), and I'll be damned if one of my Facebook friends (who comes to my event as a traditionals player) didn't accuse me of "selling out" and "drinking the kool-aid" and when I asked him to point out a specific example, he posted this question: "What self-respecting fighting game features a Jigglypuff ... none". I left it at that.

Anywho, here's what I think should be done to save us:

1.) Start reversing the trend of behavior that has plagued the community. WHOBO 5 is coming up in what, 2 months give or take? Put a anti-cursing, good game type attitude out there that people have to follow and say flat out that if you're going to be a douchebag or a whiny little punk, you are not wanted at WHOBO. Educate everyone about the goodness of Wheaton's Law and it will make for a much better time for all involved, I assure you.

2.) We should be playing each other's scenes on a more regular basis. But with Texas as large of a state as it is, the only time it's feasible to do so is at tournaments like WHOBO or APEX. I know that Dallas has come out for my event and for TM_icecream's events on a regular basis, but not once have we decided as a group to go the other way to Denti's/Infinity's/Oracle's place or have gone to Shreveport to face gunner/okuser and their scene. West Texas has it the worst I think, as they have to drive everywhere else to face off. SA/Austin aren't as bad off, as they're within a couple hours of each other. I propose a solution, albeit a temporary one for WHOBO ... is there a way we can all meet up on Friday and maybe get the venue on-site and just bash it out for a few hours? Maybe the state TOs could pitch in towards the cost of the room? I wouldn't mind doing this at all.

3.) Be excellent to each other! One of my inspirations is Stephen Toulouse, and for those of you who aren't familiar with the name ... he was the former head of enforcement for the XBox Live team, as he left last year. I was fortunate enough to meet him a few years ago at a event in the Dallas area, while he was still working for Microsoft. I've always been fascinated with the security side of computing, so to be able to ask him about that field was quite exciting for me.

In conclusion, attitudes and behaviors can be reversed and it's not too late to put the foot down on the brakes in regards to what has made the Smash community infamous. Do that, and I think you'll have a successful scene!

 

[Good Ol' Tree]

I like all of those ideas, considering the problems presented. I also don't TO, so I don't know if it matters.

Figure I'll throw this out, maybe wi-fi events could be arranged. I know that a handful of TX still plays Brawl online, myself included here-and-there. Assuming that Smash 4's wi-fi is even slightly better than Brawl's, I could see much more interest for playing and competing outside of the AiB trolls.

 

[Xyro77]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say that the current-gen Brawl scene can be saved. Coming from a traditional fighter background of a very very long time, I have always considered the "traditional" FGC to be much more toxic and more or less the vehicle of a few well-known people (Justin Wong, Ricky Ortiz, Fanatiq, Noel Brown, maybe SherryJenix), to which the crowd-at-large follows. It's also very well-known that there's a lot of bad blood between the traditional and Smash communities. I posted on my personal Facebook wall about how I played Brawl last night with our scene here in Tyler (To be honest, I don't own a Wii but have been playing a couple of months), and I'll be damned if one of my Facebook friends (who comes to my event as a traditionals player) didn't accuse me of "selling out" and "drinking the kool-aid" and when I asked him to point out a specific example, he posted this question: "What self-respecting fighting game features a Jigglypuff ... none". I left it at that.

Always always always remember that smash is NOT a fighting game at heart. It is a party game that a group of competitive players turned into a fighting game. Therefor we are not held to the same standards that the traditional fighting games are held to.

1.) Start reversing the trend of behavior that has plagued the community. WHOBO 5 is coming up in what, 2 months give or take? Put a anti-cursing, good game type attitude out there that people have to follow and say flat out that if you're going to be a douchebag or a whiny little punk, you are not wanted at WHOBO. Educate everyone about the goodness of Wheaton's Law and it will make for a much better time for all involved, I assure you.

great idea.

and assuming everybody obeys it, i still do not think that alone can revive a scene.

2.) We should be playing each other's scenes on a more regular basis. But with Texas as large of a state as it is, the only time it's feasible to do so is at tournaments like WHOBO or APEX. I know that Dallas has come out for my event and for TM_icecream's events on a regular basis, but not once have we decided as a group to go the other way to Denti's/Infinity's/Oracle's place or have gone to Shreveport to face gunner/okuser and their scene. West Texas has it the worst I think, as they have to drive everywhere else to face off. SA/Austin aren't as bad off, as they're within a couple hours of each other. I propose a solution, albeit a temporary one for WHOBO ... is there a way we can all meet up on Friday and maybe get the venue on-site and just bash it out for a few hours? Maybe the state TOs could pitch in towards the cost of the room? I wouldn't mind doing this at all.

Playing each others scenes more is pretty much what i recommended on the OP. The problem is that there are not many players left to play with. tons of us are so sick of the game and so sick of the same results. the only people that really really wanna play are the players that have smash as their life or the new gens (all of tyler for example).

as for meeting up on a random friday and buying a venue space for a few hours? isnt that kinda risky? ive never hard of a place doing that on a short notice and for cheap. it be safer/cheaper if it was done at a friends house, you know?

3.) Be excellent to each other! One of my inspirations is Stephen Toulouse, and for those of you who aren't familiar with the name ... he was the former head of enforcement for the XBox Live team, as he left last year. I was fortunate enough to meet him a few years ago at a event in the Dallas area, while he was still working for Microsoft. I've always been fascinated with the security side of computing, so to be able to ask him about that field was quite exciting for me.

The dudes job sounds interesting as hell but what does that have to do with smash or being "excellent to each other?" im not being sarcastic either. i really wanna know.

In conclusion, attitudes and behaviors can be reversed and it's not too late to put the foot down on the brakes in regards to what has made the Smash community infamous. Do that, and I think you'll have a successful scene!

Lets assume right here right now that EVERYBODY in tx became super mega friendlie and helpful.
Lets assume right here right now that ALL TOs could find cheap but awesome venues.
Lets assume right here right now that we fixed everything me and you mentioned.


We still have one massive problem.


Brawl has been out for 5 years and people are done with the game. They are done with seeing gnes/razer/trela/dojo/denti win everything. They are tired of tripping, grab armor, chain grabs, ******** priority, disgustingly huge hit boxes....ect. They are tired of METAKNIGHT, OLIMAR, ICE CLIMBERS, BANANAS (DIDDY) and the not fun play styles that those characters bring. Simply put, they are sick of the same old thing.

Not only that, marvel, lol, cod and other games have a very tight grasp on their time and money right now so even if brawl did get slightly better i highly doubt it would be enough to bring them back. That is why im doing whobo one last time. One last "guys, give me your strength or we die" moment and after that im done with brawl until smash 4. My next series will include some things that will drastically change the way houston/tx works.

Figure I'll throw this out, maybe wi-fi events could be arranged. I know that a handful of TX still plays Brawl online, myself included here-and-there. Assuming that Smash 4's wi-fi is even slightly better than Brawl's, I could see much more interest for playing and competing outside of the AiB trolls.

Playing smash online doesnt make the offline scene grow. In fact, i have had a TON of people come off wifi and play offline because it was so bad and that is what helped grow our game. Just think if anti/ally/atmosk....ect never left wifi? Our scene would have been missing phenomenal players. There is no way i would encourage anybody to stay at home and play wifi. A SCENE/COMMUNITY is based off of its offline pool of players. A state's skill level is based off of OFFLINE players. Online is a literal waste of time and should be used only if it is impossible for a player to travel for a weekend or so.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Shove it. I haven't won anything in like a year. Texas is theirs to cease.

 

[RT]

......sieze?

 

[Espy Rose]

To be fair, if I have to deal with your grenades ever again, it'll be too soon.

 

[Black Mantis]

Excellent post Xyro.

 

[Xyro77]

Excellent post Xyro.

 

[UltimateRazer]

To be fair, if I have to deal with your grenades ever again, it'll be too soon.

LOL son, you caused your own demise after you hopped to infinity and beyond on the platforms of battlefield against me.

RT, don't get political with me.

 

[Espy Rose]

What?
I think you're talking about Tesh or something.

 

[Tesh]

I never camped Razer with Sonic, just Wario and Metaknight.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Nah, definitely you sir Espy when you first beat me and I was made a laughing stock. Then MLG came around....

Tesh you've camped my freaking DK. You need help.

 

[Tesh]

Yea, I camped you with Metaknight and you got what you deserved.

Only Snake I ever camped with Sonic was MVD, and it didn't work so why would I bother.

 

[Espy Rose]

Oh. Well I guess that's that. ​

 

[UltimateRazer]

Yea, I camped you with Metaknight and you got what you deserved.

Only Snake I ever camped with Sonic was MVD, and it didn't work so why would I bother.

The set win? Why yes, yes I did.