• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Brawl, Smash 4 and Xyro. Texas TOs, please read.

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
*listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EleQhHSIP9k while you read*

*200 points and a free candy bar to whoever remembers what famous movie this song was in oh and don't google this *****





As we all know, Smash 4 will be released some time in 2014 so i was thinking ways we can start off strong (as a state) and maybe eventually get our state back into the top 3 states in terms of skill like we did with Brawl. I was thinking about this for a while because of how bad the Brawl scene in getting in Tx. Speaking of how bad the scene is getting, lets dive into what caused it to deteriorate to the point it is at currently. If we can identify some things that went wrong in the past 5 years, maybe we can avoid/prevent it from happening in the era of Smash 4. The things i will be talking about can be applied to Brawl but tbh i think our Brawl ship has taken on too much water to continue to sail.





1. Too many events in a short amount of time/TOs not working with each other.

There have been many many times these past 5 years where literally every weekend we have multiple events going on in multiple cities. Some times they are happening at the SAME time. Now i can not tell you to stop running events/change your times but i highly suggest that we all work with each other when it comes to running events. If Xyro's event is in November, i recommend that the rest of the Tx TOs should not do anything in November. If IceCream wants March and Denti wants June then i shouldn't run an event in those months. I bring this topic up first because this is what hurts our attendance the most.

edit: If i see 4 events happen on the same weekend again i will drive to your city, burn your house down, kill your pet hamster, throw boric acid on your face and then record your screams as my new ringtone.



2. Lets spread ourselves out and not burn ourselves out.

This relates to #1, big time. If we each claim a month to run and event, it would mean we have to wait 20-30 days for the next event. It sounds like a long time between events, doesn't it? It is even LONGER if you are the type of person who refuses/cant travel OOC. It could be 60-90 days before its your cities turn to host again. That is why we should TRAVEL to other cities. It is a proven fact that they more you travel, the better you get AND the faster it happens. In between events, do some STDs (smash till dawn) or fests. It will be enough to hold you over. In brawl, next to no one does this. Its a free-for-all when it comes to events and we ALL suffer in the process.



3. Rules/Stages

In traditional fighters like SF or marvel or guilty gear or blazeblue, stages dont really matter and the rules are generally the same with each iteration of the game. Smash isnt the same. We drastically change the rules with each new game. Stages and rules literally determine what characters are viable in the game so it is very important that we take great care when we make rules. PLEASE dont do what we did in brawl and just jump on the most popular ruleset (apex). The less stages you have, the lower the amount of characters are viable. THAT slows the growth of the roster and shortens the life of the game. It took melee about 7 years to narrow down its results to about 5-6 characters. It took brawl 4 years. Lets not make this same mistake again with smash 4.

When it comes to rules like infinites, stalling, ledge grabs, timers, stock count, ports, stage striking......ect we cant really do anything about these until the game has come out, right? Well look at brawl. We have MLG rule set, unity ruleset, apex rule set, japanese rule set, bbr ruleset and other off the wall rulesets spread around here and there. What separates these rulesets is usually the STAGES. In smash 4, i recommend we start off with LOTS of stages instead of a FEW stages. Obviously, the stages that are on par with Hyrule Temple or New Pork City should not be allowed from the get go, but stages on par with Halberd or Delfino or Japes or Brinstar have NO REASON to be banned this early (remember, the only reason why those were banned was because mk) . Allowing more stages and characters allows for more people to play the character they want. if this happens, more people will attend events. I did this in the early days of melee and the early days of brawl and it worked out well.



4. Attitudes towards each other and New players.

I understand that over time players become familiar with each other they tend to open up to each other. They can cuss, be sarcastic and treat each other a bit rude because its all in good fun and no harm was meant. New players (especially YOUNG players) dont know this yet. I cant make you behave a certain way but do suggest you consider what your words/attitudes do to new players as well as the event. If people come to my events and get treated like poop right off the bad, they will probably never come back and that hurts our games total attendance. Remember, YOU and ME represent the event we attend, so if we come off as A-holes people will not return.



5. Streaming and advertising.

In brawl for the past 5 years, not every event had a stream. It is 2013 now and streaming has turned out to be a really common thing for almost every competitive game. Lol it can be done on a damn smartphone now. We gotta find ways to include streams in as many events as possible. Not only does it show off our states skill but it also shows the world how much fun we are having at our events. This could def bring in more people to our state/events. As for advertising, its really simple: DO IT! Literally spam Gamefaqs, smashboards, aib, smash4u, reddit, neogaf, luelinks, twitter, craigslist (a xyro secret), dating sites (another xyro secret) and any other social forum you know about with threads/posts to your event. Also, ask each other to advertise each others events on the stream. Sktar did that for WHOBO a few weeks back and it was bad ass. The more people know about your event, the more people will probably go so please advertise.



6. Offering alt forms of smash is bad.

Because so many people ended up disliking Brawl, we tried Balanced Brawl, Brawl -, Brawl +, Melee and now Project M. It was cool at first because it was something new. But guess what, melee and PM has taken hold and brawl is having its lowest numbers of all time. What once was a fun side event is now taking numbers away from the main game. That is why this gen, i recommend that we all do something new. Instead of alternate forms of Smash 4, why dont we do things like Low tier or Mid Tier or Crews (once we find out who is good/bad in terms of characters)? Doing this not only allows players who main bad characters a chance to do well (and thus cause them to return to another one of your events), but it also allows us to expand the metagame of the characters that are not used as much and thus maybe find new things about this game that can make it more enjoyable.



7. When in doubt, do what XYRO77 (the legend) does.

I have the longest running/most "successful" tournament series in all of smash history ( the HOBO series has reached 40 events) and i currently hold multiple MK banned attendance records (HOBO 17, WHOBO 4), largest monthly attendance record (HOBO 10, HOBO 11) as well as the largest Low tier event attendance (WHOBO 3) . Im not saying i am the best TO (even though i am) and i am not saying my way is the ONLY CORRECT way (even though it is), but what i am saying is what i do WORKS. I recommend that if you are currently a TO or want to become a TO for smash 4, please ask me anything you want and i would love to help you.





Remember, without Xyro, you fail:








But with Xyro, anything is possible:


 

Keitaro

Banned via Administration
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
11,941
Location
Piscataway, NJ
Damn great post. Especially number 4 and 6 for me.

I mentioned that these "hacked" games take away from attendance and give people reasons to say "Eww I don't play Brawl/Melee, I play Balanced Brawl" which separates the communities even more than it already is. Hopefully these hacked games aren't made again for Smash 4.

And yes, too many, WAY TOO MANY people are super rude to new players and just people in general. Alot of people are also unwilling to meet new players or say "good matches dude, hope to play you again" after a set. That can mean a lot.

At a recent tournament a kid threw his controller, cried, and ran away after losing to a player. When playing me, the kid seemed to get frustrated, but I congratulated his good moves, always said good luck, great games, have fun, etc. After losing to me he just said "aww man" and looked a tad peeved, but when I put out my hand and said "good games, keep up the Yoshi practice" he smiled, shook my hand, and said thanks.

Obviously you can make your own decisions in life, but if you are down to help Smash 4 be as big as it possibly can, these tips can certainly make a change for the new game.
 

BlueXenon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
1,387
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Blueoceans26
3DS FC
3050-7832-9141
I think it was a big mistake to keep shrinking the stage list to the point where Ice climbers are the 2nd best character in the game. I understand that metaknight was too good on the counterpick stages, but people didn't realize that the removal of these stages hurt mid tier characters. The new smaller stagelist further divides the top tier from the high/mid tiers in viability and I'm surprised all the mid tier mains didn't quit from this.
I think the best thing to do would be to use the big stage list again, with Brinstar and Rainbow cruise, and allow 2 bans. This way nobody will be forced to play metaknight on a really bad stage for their character.
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
30,577
Location
Texas
NNID
EspyRose
Excellent post.
And long live large stage lists. Rest in peace PS2.:applejack:
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Damn great post. Especially number 4 and 6 for me.

I mentioned that these "hacked" games take away from attendance and give people reasons to say "Eww I don't play Brawl/Melee, I play Balanced Brawl" which separates the communities even more than it already is. Hopefully these hacked games aren't made again for Smash 4.

And yes, too many, WAY TOO MANY people are super rude to new players and just people in general. Alot of people are also unwilling to meet new players or say "good matches dude, hope to play you again" after a set. That can mean a lot.

At a recent tournament a kid threw his controller, cried, and ran away after losing to a player. When playing me, the kid seemed to get frustrated, but I congratulated his good moves, always said good luck, great games, have fun, etc. After losing to me he just said "aww man" and looked a tad peeved, but when I put out my hand and said "good games, keep up the Yoshi practice" he smiled, shook my hand, and said thanks.

Obviously you can make your own decisions in life, but if you are down to help Smash 4 be as big as it possibly can, these tips can certainly make a change for the new game.
See that is exactly my point.

new players can and probably will get discouraged easily. it is up to all of us (TOs and players) to make them feel welcome and make them feel like ok yea you got ***** but you CAN get better so dont feel bad.


I think it was a big mistake to keep shrinking the stage list to the point where Ice climbers are the 2nd best character in the game. I understand that metaknight was too good on the counterpick stages, but people didn't realize that the removal of these stages hurt mid tier characters. The new smaller stagelist further divides the top tier from the high/mid tiers in viability and I'm surprised all the mid tier mains didn't quit from this.
I think the best thing to do would be to use the big stage list again, with Brinstar and Rainbow cruise, and allow 2 bans. This way nobody will be forced to play metaknight on a really bad stage for their character.
I disagree with 2 stage bans.

How about we ban the PROBLEM (mk). We have banned stages (brin/rc/delf/hal) and made like 5 separate rules just for mk to stay legal. it is ridiculous.

had he been banned at the get go, we would have had at least 4-6 more stages to choose from when we go to events. those extra 6 stages basically unlock characters to become viable for once.






Attitudes towards new players at fests help too.
yea that is true. but you tend to see more new players at events than at fests.





Excellent post.
And long live large stage lists. Rest in peace PS2.:applejack:
I would have left ps2/picto/japes on but i was threatened to be black listed if i didnt change. f-ing anti ban biches.
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
30,577
Location
Texas
NNID
EspyRose
God forbid we ban one character. They act like they haven't euthanized half of the game's options as is.
One character. That's all that was asked.
:applejack:
 

Sanji Himura

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
372
Location
Strohiem Castle, Germany
I think that a big part of this is Nintendo themselves not securing their bloody console. The Wii, though the best selling console this past generation, is also notorious as the most hacked console of all time. Why is this? Because the SD Cards in general is not a secured medium. That is the reason for malicious code being inserted into the Wiis themselves, and that is the reason there are so many variations of Brawl out there today. If we truly debated the issues instead of getting a ruleset rammed down our throats as the flavor of the week, I think that Smash 4 will be the one of the best Smash games out there.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
I think that a big part of this is Nintendo themselves not securing their bloody console. The Wii, though the best selling console this past generation, is also notorious as the most hacked console of all time. Why is this? Because the SD Cards in general is not a secured medium. That is the reason for malicious code being inserted into the Wiis themselves, and that is the reason there are so many variations of Brawl out there today. If we truly debated the issues instead of getting a ruleset rammed down our throats as the flavor of the week, I think that Smash 4 will be the one of the best Smash games out there.


i dont think brawl was edited 4-5 times just for fun. people are very disappointed in how it turned out so they edit it to try and fix brawls issues.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
530
Location
San Antonio, Tx
How come mk is still legal then

I dunno but im optimistic about smash 4. Im hoping if theres something glaringly wrong with the game the community wont hesitate to protect the competitiveness.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
How come mk is still legal then


Several reasons


Too many MK users/supporters run events and attend events. So if you ban them, you ban 1/3 of your attendance. There are also people who believe that under no circumstance should we ban characters. Others think that if mk isnt as bad a ssf2 Akuma (who is banned at nearly all events) then he should be legal. Some are literally so uneducated that they actually think mk can be countered even though there is zero evidence out there.

its been like this since month 3 of brawls life. it will never change and that is a major reason why people quit this game.
 

BlueXenon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
1,387
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Blueoceans26
3DS FC
3050-7832-9141
I disagree with 2 stage bans.

How about we ban the PROBLEM (mk). We have banned stages (brin/rc/delf/hal) and made like 5 separate rules just for mk to stay legal. it is ridiculous.

had he been banned at the get go, we would have had at least 4-6 more stages to choose from when we go to events. those extra 6 stages basically unlock characters to become viable for once.
The reason why I think it's a terrible idea to ban MK is because of the amount of time so many people put into learning him. The top mk mains probably spent a countless amount of hours improving their tech skill with him and thinking of new ideas. This is why if a character is banned, it should be in the beginning of a game's life and not when nearly everybody already uses that character.

I don't see a problem with creating special rules to keep mk legal as long as it have too much of an effect on the other characters. I think bringing back the old stage list and allowing 2 stage bans would slightly nerf MK and not affect the other characters too much.
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
30,577
Location
Texas
NNID
EspyRose
A perfect illustration of Meta Knight's toxicity, BlueXenon. Thanks. :applejack:
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
The reason why I think it's a terrible idea to ban MK is because of the amount of time so many people put into learning him. The top mk mains probably spent a countless amount of hours improving their tech skill with him and thinking of new ideas.
But its ok for everybody else to spend the same amount of hours (or more) in their character only to be 100% countered by mk and 150% countered once he has a decent stage?


This is why if a character is banned, it should be in the beginning of a game's life and not when nearly everybody already uses that character.
Its extremely dangerous banning a character at the beginning of the games life because things CAN change. Sadly, mk is the exception. nothing changed.

I don't see a problem with creating special rules to keep mk legal as long as it have too much of an effect on the other characters.
Its highly embarrassing that we must have a scrooging rule, stalling rule, plainking rule, ledge grab limit, infinite dementional cape all because of one character. On top of that, we must reduce our stage lists because hes borderline unstoppable on stages like RC/brinstar.

So basically we edit the **** out of this game to save one character while hurting the rest (all characters must abide by the rules we created).

That is backwards as fukc

I think bringing back the old stage list and allowing 2 stage bans would slightly nerf MK and not affect the other characters too much.
What stage list are we talking about? MK is NEVER at a disadvantage on any stage nor vs any character. At worst its "EVEN"
 

Sanji Himura

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
372
Location
Strohiem Castle, Germany
i dont think brawl was edited 4-5 times just for fun. people are very disappointed in how it turned out so they edit it to try and fix brawls issues.
That's not my point. My point is that it is because of the accessibility of how easy it was to edit the game to suit their needs, and Nintendo's inability to secure their own console compared to Sony and Microsoft is what caused this garden variety of brawl hacks to divide the community. I see what you are saying, but people don't up and go hack the nearest PS3 just because they didn't like Super Street Fighter IV, or whatever version they are up to now, without consequence. A lot of times the infected system is banned from the network.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
That's not my point. My point is that it is because of the accessibility of how easy it was to edit the game to suit their needs, and Nintendo's inability to secure their own console compared to Sony and Microsoft is what caused this garden variety of brawl hacks to divide the community. I see what you are saying, but people don't up and go hack the nearest PS3 just because they didn't like Super Street Fighter IV, or whatever version they are up to now, without consequence. A lot of times the infected system is banned from the network.

Capcom also patches their games or sends out another version every 4 days. No need to hack a game when u know a new version or fix will appear soon.
 

BlueXenon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
1,387
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Blueoceans26
3DS FC
3050-7832-9141
Its highly embarrassing that we must have a scrooging rule, stalling rule, plainking rule, ledge grab limit, infinite dementional cape all because of one character. On top of that, we must reduce our stage lists because hes borderline unstoppable on stages like RC/brinstar.

So basically we edit the **** out of this game to save one character while hurting the rest (all characters must abide by the rules we created).

That is backwards as fukc
Wouldn't the infinite dementional cape be banned for any character?


What stage list are we talking about? MK is NEVER at a disadvantage on any stage nor vs any character. At worst its "EVEN"

Im talking about this stage list. I might be forgetting a few stages though.
FD
BF
SV
LC
FO
CS
PS1
PS2
Brinstar
RC
YI
DP

What I meant was, allowing 2 stage bans would make it a lot less likely for metaknight to get a free win from a counterpick stage.

I am new to brawl compared to the people who have been playing since it was released so I'm not going to add more to this.
Thankyou for replying!
 

Sanji Himura

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
372
Location
Strohiem Castle, Germany
Ahh, a NewGen. Thank you for your ignorance. /sarcasm

I have a saying as to when to ban a character, only if he is proven to be broken, then shall he be banned. At first I didn't want to believe Xyro in that MK was broken, or that I had my standards set too high(I'll admit I was one of those Akuma standard people). After seeing facts though, I realized that he is ban worthy.
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
Wouldn't the infinite dementional cape be banned for any character?

Just want to point out that we shouldn't have an "infinite dimensional cape" clause to begin with. We have a stalling clause, and IDC should fall under that. Regardless, I believe Xyro's point is that we have to make rules to limit the character, and then claim he isn't too good.
 

AeroLink_the_SoulMaster

Let's rock, baby!
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,105
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Oh, please don't bring up MK legality again... <.< >.>
It's over, just accept that Meta Knight is legal overall.

Let's talk more about the possible future for the SSB4 community.
 

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,009
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
Ya he's right. Let's talk about how if Smash 4 allows MK to live and nothing being changed it's literally brawl 2.0 but without tripping and Megaman.
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
30,577
Location
Texas
NNID
EspyRose
Oh, please don't bring up MK legality again... <.< >.>
It's over, just accept that Meta Knight is legal overall.

Let's talk more about the possible future for the SSB4 community.
I'd rather talk about Meta Knight, and how much he deserves to be banned at big events.
Like WHOBO. :applejack:
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Im talking about this stage list. I might be forgetting a few stages though.

FD=no advantage
BF=advantage
SV=advantage
Lylat C=advantage
Frig=advantage
Castle S=no advantage
PS1=no advantage
PS2=no advantage
Brinstar=advantage
RC=advantage
YI=no advantage
Delfino P=advantage
Halberd=advantage

What I meant was, allowing 2 stage bans would make it a lot less likely for metaknight to get a free win from a counterpick stage.
I edited your post (in color)to show what kind of advantage MK has on the stages you provided. My edit is assuming MK isn't fighting anything lower than top 7 characters in the game and this is assuming all of those stages are legal.

Wanna ban RC and Brin? ill mk you on delf or hal. Want 2 more free bans for a total of 4? Go ahead, take em' and get rid of hal/delf. ill mk you on lylat or frigate.

No matter how you slice it, mk will have a buffet of fun if you have 2 bans or even 4 bans with those stages legal. That is why they are not legal any more. METAKNIGHT is the sole reason why we cannot have the finer things in life.

Ban mk but leave those stages open and you will never have a problem with ICs/Diddys/Olimars again. They can all be heavily counter picked with that stage list+correct character.



I am new to brawl compared to the people who have been playing since it was released so I'm not going to add more to this.
Thankyou for replying!
Dude no THANK YOU for talking about this. And i apologize if i come off as rude. It really isn't my intention to sound that way if i indeed do come off that way.





Ahh, a NewGen. Thank you for your ignorance. /sarcasm

I have a saying as to when to ban a character, only if he is proven to be broken, then shall he be banned. At first I didn't want to believe Xyro in that MK was broken, or that I had my standards set too high(I'll admit I was one of those Akuma standard people). After seeing facts though, I realized that he is ban worthy.
It takes some people longer than others. As long as its realized eventually, its all good.




Regardless, I believe Xyro's point is that we have to make rules to limit the character, and then claim he isn't too good.



BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Oh, please don't bring up MK legality again... <.< >.>
It's over, just accept that Meta Knight is legal overall.
Its been accepted since day one, dude.


Let's talk more about the possible future for the SSB4 community.
I agree. Gimmi some of your thoughts.




Xyro, the hero of our time!

:018:


 

BlueXenon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
1,387
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Blueoceans26
3DS FC
3050-7832-9141
I agree with you now. But if every character can be heavily counterpicked with that stage list + mk banned, then how would anyone be able to main one character and still place well?
 

Seagull Joe

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
10,388
Location
Maryland
NNID
SeagullJoe
I agree with you now. But if every character can be heavily counterpicked with that stage list + mk banned, then how would anyone be able to main one character?
That's the point in the aspect of counter-picking. Learning multiple characters is good in every fighting game. I have a :wolf:, :metaknight:, :dedede:, :sonic:, :rob:, and :falco:. I can all use at a relatively mid to high level. I mostly just use :wolf:/:metaknight: tho.

:018:
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
I agree with you now. But if every character can be heavily counterpicked with that stage list + mk banned, then how would anyone be able to main one character?

THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF SMASH. You do not have to main one character.

Our counter pick system is set up to where you CAN use one character but you will eventually put at a disadvantage whether it be by another character or by stage. If this happens, you can switch chars and/or pick a different stage to offset that disadvantage. its all about keeping things "fair"

With MK in the mix he is NEVER at a disadvantage. At WORST he would have to deal with ICs on FD. Even then, the MU is now 50:50. If he plays "g a y" enough, its back in his favor.
 

Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
30,577
Location
Texas
NNID
EspyRose
MK vs ICs being 5:5 is just hilarious.
You're a comedic mastermind, Xyro. :applejack:
 
Top Bottom