Jem.
Smash Master
If we're talking about the smash backroom on here, I never get accepted into it or whatever, LOL, and I'm not quite sure why.
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Brawl ruleset at EVO
- Thread starter JTB
- Start date
Wow i love you for winning their tournament hahah
Pimp Willy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 21
Yeah, me too. It showed the best players still win even with items on, instead of it being a "lol coin toss" like everyone said it would be
Miharu
Smash Hero
iankobe
Smash Lord
LOL. Like how when Mike and I went all random characters hmm? Just to make the matches more random.
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
The randomness isn't the strongest argument against items. It's the fact that it takes a different skillset.
I don't think them having items on is that big of a deal, but the items they DO have on, not to mention the STAGES, show a clear lack of consistency in logic. Norfair was banned but 75m was not. The reasoning was that allegedly "Norfair is 95% lava." So somehow a stage being "95%" (accurate number I'm sure) about something that is very deterministic and easily avoidable is banworthy, but that logic is failed to be applied to other stages. 75m is 99% (probably not 99, but for **** sure greater than whatever Norfair's lava is) running around a giant **** stage with crap flying at you.
Again, it has to to with SKILLS THAT ARE TESTED. 75m is a "legitimate game." But it does not test any kind of skills that anyone gives a **** about in the context of Smash; they are so disjoint from skills tested on other stages. People that have been playing Smash for years have an idea of what relevant skills to test in the context of Smash are. It's fine that SRK thinks they know too, but not at the expense of our experience.
I don't think them having items on is that big of a deal, but the items they DO have on, not to mention the STAGES, show a clear lack of consistency in logic. Norfair was banned but 75m was not. The reasoning was that allegedly "Norfair is 95% lava." So somehow a stage being "95%" (accurate number I'm sure) about something that is very deterministic and easily avoidable is banworthy, but that logic is failed to be applied to other stages. 75m is 99% (probably not 99, but for **** sure greater than whatever Norfair's lava is) running around a giant **** stage with crap flying at you.
Again, it has to to with SKILLS THAT ARE TESTED. 75m is a "legitimate game." But it does not test any kind of skills that anyone gives a **** about in the context of Smash; they are so disjoint from skills tested on other stages. People that have been playing Smash for years have an idea of what relevant skills to test in the context of Smash are. It's fine that SRK thinks they know too, but not at the expense of our experience.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
wow ian, i read the first page of the thread you linked, i honestly did not know that people were so out of touch with the general rules, hell even my casual friends know shadow moses is a horrible stage.
heres an idea, have nevada select its best dedede player, and a couple good sheik/zelda/marths and just have them camp/infinite/exploit smashballs to show em why some of these things are banned, just do nothing but pick shadow moses and wait for the smashball
heres an idea, have nevada select its best dedede player, and a couple good sheik/zelda/marths and just have them camp/infinite/exploit smashballs to show em why some of these things are banned, just do nothing but pick shadow moses and wait for the smashball
Pimp Willy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 21
Actually, did you not notice Mr Wizard watching your match from behind, and simply shaking his head at the idiocy you displayed? I'd say that might have played a large role in his decision making, congrats.
And Mike might be bad at brawl, but he was still one of the better players there no question. With more items/stage practice (instead of limiting himself to a smaller subset of the game), he would have done even better. Hell, I managed to snake wins because the others players didn't know simple things about the stages we were fighting on, or how some items function. It's silly to consider yourself a top "smasher" and not even know the ins and outs of the entire game.
Miharu
Smash Hero
It'd be a top smasher regarding Melee, not Brawl. Funny how people assume that the skillsets from Melee carry over to Brawl 100%. If you're not saying this, then please don't post in a manner that implies that you think in this fashion.
Also, when are you going to stop blindly defending Mr Wizard and start making some legit decisions for yourself? You're really just arguing a point that not only is cared about by very few, but has little to no relevance to the original topic at hand.
iankobe
Smash Lord
Hell. Like I care who he is. If you want us to play with stupid rules, we'll play in a stupid way. That's how it is. If Mr. Wizard decided the rules based on our match, that only shows that he has no respect for us.
Mike and I would've gone "serious" but we wouldn't. No matter what we know that random things are going to pop out of nowhere and kill the whole gameplay. Ask Mike yourself. We would never treat items serious because there's no way we could play competitively along with them.
Why would Mr. Wizard even listen to the people that has no experience in competitive of Smash? He should instead come to US. NOT SRK. SRK people has no knowledge whatsoever about Brawl at all.
Am I right, Big foot? Or the rest of you that have read the idiotic thread on SRK.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
yeah... i'm going to have nightmares about that thread, maybe mr. wizard should go to ucla 6 and see how a proper swf tournament is run
Items won't get people who really suck at the game to beat good experienced players like Mike, but it could get one person who is only moderately better than someone else to lose. Most likely Mike is already ten times better than everyone else who went which is why he was able to overcome the items. Yeah, I bet I cold beat my grandpa with a level 1 handicap, that doesn't mean its a balanced ruleset.
mrb1tch3s
Smash Ace
Yeah...The thing that bugs me is the luck factor that items bring in. It takes away from the game being all about skill and more about what items you used. Sure that factor is diminished some if you are substantially better then another person but if its a slightly closer match than a full out **** then its no longer skill but luck based on how lucky you are with items.
AznChefii
Smash Journeyman
no, i got first with no items and got 13th place with items on at elac
kouryuuXfighter
Smash Ace
Imagine playing a match with items. You go through an entire minute punishing a noob for the all the mistakes he is making and kill him at about 100% due to the influence of items and your own skills. Your at a relatively low percent. Next thing you know, a golden hammer RANDOMLY appears. The noob grabs it. After making ONE mistake, by rolling towards the noob, you get hit and die. Everything evens out again...
Think about this scenario for a second. After going through all that work punishing a noob for all his mistakes, you end up dying due to the randomness of items and because of a single mistake. The noob was allowed multiple mistakes before dying and you were allowed ONE. That is what items reduces a match to. A game where luck overshadows skills and knowledge you have over you own character. Sure, it's a different kind of skill to play with items but luck plays such a huge factor it's dumb...
@ Pimp Willy
Get the **** off of Wizards' sack. And get the **** off this thread. Better yet, get the **** off of SWF and go back to your gay-a$$ SRK forums. No one needs an idiot like you around.
Edit: I relized that everything is dumb about the ruleset. Not just the fact that items are on and dumb stages are allowed. 2min time limit? First match on custom stage?? WTF?!
I say this once again with passion:
F*CK EVO!!!
Think about this scenario for a second. After going through all that work punishing a noob for all his mistakes, you end up dying due to the randomness of items and because of a single mistake. The noob was allowed multiple mistakes before dying and you were allowed ONE. That is what items reduces a match to. A game where luck overshadows skills and knowledge you have over you own character. Sure, it's a different kind of skill to play with items but luck plays such a huge factor it's dumb...
@ Pimp Willy
Get the **** off of Wizards' sack. And get the **** off this thread. Better yet, get the **** off of SWF and go back to your gay-a$$ SRK forums. No one needs an idiot like you around.
Edit: I relized that everything is dumb about the ruleset. Not just the fact that items are on and dumb stages are allowed. 2min time limit? First match on custom stage?? WTF?!
I say this once again with passion:
F*CK EVO!!!
SwastikaPyle
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2007
- Messages
- 811
So the ruleset isn't a prank?
Seriously, how is it even a debate that items are bad for the competitive scene? How could it possibly be an argument?
Seriously, how is it even a debate that items are bad for the competitive scene? How could it possibly be an argument?
Pimp Willy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 21
Why is it always a hammer/golden hammer? I mean, jesus, if you knew ANYTHING about items, you'd know that picking up a hammer is just ASKING to be killed. The very fact you won't even ATTEMPT to try to take items seriously speaks VOLUMES about smashers as a whole, especially knowing the ruleset for evo was on the line. OH NOES, SOMETHING DIFFERENT, ATTACK IT!
And also, the rules were developed after talking with a LARGE assortment of people from all opinions, views, etc. It ended up middle ground of what both sides would liked to have seen.
And also, the rules were developed after talking with a LARGE assortment of people from all opinions, views, etc. It ended up middle ground of what both sides would liked to have seen.
Miharu
Smash Hero
I like how you pick up on the idiotic arguments made by a choice few and deign to ignore the rest that actually use some logic.
thesage
Smash Hero
You don't want brawl @ evo. Why do you care?
Edit: we found out that items try to spawn near players. That's it. So an extra layer of stage control doesn't exist as there's a 50/50 chance that an item will spawn near you or your opponent. Whether the player's current rank affects the spawns is still being tested.
iankobe
Smash Lord
Well. I wouldn't say 10 times better. Gary (aznchef) and I was there and Gary did get first in the Non-item, REGULAR tournament. But it doesn't even matter anyway. No matter how hard we try, items will just get in the way.
Why is it always a hammer/golden hammer? 'Cause they're items! And you're right. When something's SO different and absurd, we HAVE to attack it to make it right. You don't see us here at SWF tried to make up our own rules about any games of SF, Capcom vs snk, etc because we know nothing about! But why the people at SRK who has SO MUCH knowledge about Smash gets to take over the rules and treat our game a piece of garbage?!
I'm hoping there's still a chance for those ignorant people at SRK to wake up and mind their own business. This is OUR game.
thesage
Smash Hero
Hammer and Golden Hammer have always been beatable since melee and smash64.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7otagizR3zk&feature=related
(the ending)
What concerns me more about items is the fact that they still have some stupid stages on and the counterpick system, which completely screws like 7 characters.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7otagizR3zk&feature=related
(the ending)
What concerns me more about items is the fact that they still have some stupid stages on and the counterpick system, which completely screws like 7 characters.
aznforce817
Smash Lord
What is this another gamestop tourny..... i thought EVO knew better than that.
Did you not read the posts above yours? We did try them. We had a couple of tournaments with items on. We didn't like it. So yes we gave them a chance and they failed.
Iankobe- I didn't know Gary went. He's pretty good. Anyone else go? THere a results page on it?:embarrass
iankobe
Smash Lord
Well. No one really went besides Mike, Gary, Recipherus and myself. I think there was a result page somewhere but it doesn't matter anyway.
EDIT: I found it: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165235&page=5
I like how he put "Diet Brawl" for the regular tournament, and "ALL BRAWL" for the items on tournament.
ROFLMFAO.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
iankobe
Smash Lord
That was so ******** that everyone basically ignored him.
you DO realize this is TAS right? No one, not even Simna could do that stuff with Ness. >_>
Arash
Smash Lord
seriously, people need to stop coming on smashboards and arguing like kindergarteners...
at least on the college-level of debate, we don't throw out random sources that work against our argument. in this case, in smash 64 if you need to use save states and the like to get around a hammer, shouldn't it show that they're more deserving of being banned?
at least on the college-level of debate, we don't throw out random sources that work against our argument. in this case, in smash 64 if you need to use save states and the like to get around a hammer, shouldn't it show that they're more deserving of being banned?
thesage
Smash Hero
Simna only did stuff with Ness in melee. He mained Samus in 64, I think.
In melee the hammer is only effective on FD so it's pretty easy to avoid.
Edit: I'm not pro items at all. Just saying the hammer isn't the best item. The best items in brawl are the ray gun and the fan probably.
aznforce817
Smash Lord
the fan is way too good in brawl..... its like melee combos all over again.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
im no longer a fan or your posts.