Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[stingers]

Of course I do. However, it boils down to "learn how to play the game". And I don't think you'd particularly appreciate that.

No, actually, your entire argument was based on your assumption that I had no idea what I was talking about, which obviously didn't work out too well for you in the end. I assure you, all you have done here is spew forth assumptions that have no basis in reality. In fact, your brilliant response to my argument about how Marth completely shuts down all of Falcon's approaches was "Mindgames." Yeah, brilliant, genius.

For example, so what if Marth is good? Marth in melee is good. Do you see people *****ing about how he should be banned in tournaments? No? Why not?

...

What exactly is your point you're trying to make here? Marth in Melee is indeed good, so good in fact that he made certain characters completely nonviable in tournament. Is that a problem? **** yes that's a problem, and as far as I know, that's the whole entire reason this whole Brawl+ movement started. If all you're seeking to do is repeat that cycle by refusing to nerf characters that are once again dominating the competitive scene, then maybe Brawl+ isn't as brilliant an idea as it first sounded.

And when the **** did I mention banning Marth from anything? You really need to think about what you're saying before you decide to post it.

 

[GHNeko]

Oh...then what's with the...



Oh...right...

...What? You've misunderstood. I said that in responce to People complaing about marth being impossibe/mk tier/broken this/Best in the game that.

If Marth doesn't start sweeping tourneys, I'll be busy castrating people who *****ed about Marth being too good, because a character that is too good will obviously show signs.

Marth did, and he was nerfed. Not once. Not twice. But 3 times, probably 4 if my math is off.


And as for gimping marth. Speed hug better. If he doesnt sweetspot, punish him with an attack.

 

[Yingyay]

On topic about this whole Marth thing

-Sheik can destroy him once she gets in
-Metaknight....nuff said
-Snake can beat marth. Camp or just use Grenade Sheilding.
-Captain falcon has to put in work, but once he gets in, he can send Marth flying to the point where he either cant get back in or is forced to recover low, in that case you can just edgehog him and watch him fall
-Falco has his pew pewzz, and his tilt's speed are great. He can kill marth as early as 50% with a well timed dthrow spike.
-Fox.......nuff said
-Wolf spam smashes smartly and blaster as well.

Its all a mater of playing to your characters strength. And even still, there are characters that have extremely hard times dealing with marth, and the opposite is true as well. Marth aint that bad to deal with.

 

[shanus]

stingers, certain characters are clearly counterpicks though. We buffed a TON more characters than we nerfed. Case and point though, marths zoning and spacing capabilities easily allow him to exploit falcons weakness of approach. its hard to penetrate that wall of sword without ruining the main aspect of what marth is. However, you can't base all balance off of what one match up balance was. We know marth is good, in fact, I was one of the people spearheading him requiring nerfs.

Marth received a lot of nerfs. See how he pans out with them. We buffed a lot more of other characters than we nerfed. Patience my friend, patience.

 

[Arkaether]

No, actually, your entire argument was based on your assumption that I had no idea what I was talking about, which obviously didn't work out too well for you in the end. I assure you, all you have done here is spew forth assumptions that have no basis in reality. In fact, your brilliant response to my argument about how Marth completely shuts down all of Falcon's approaches was "Mindgames." Yeah, brilliant, genius.

Interesting. I love how you've begun to completely avoid my arguments to instead attempt to assume that I'm assuming. Rather than talk about on-topic, actual pertinent information, you're trying to rely on using big words, personal attacks, and semantic fluff to argue your point.

In other words, you have no counterarguments. Maybe you should look up the definition of an "ad hominem" argument. It's usually the first sign that you're losing the argument.

What exactly is your point you're trying to make here? Marth in Melee is indeed good, so good in fact that he made certain characters completely nonviable in tournament. Is that a problem? **** yes that's a problem, and as far as I know, that's the whole entire reason this whole Brawl+ movement started. If all you're seeking to do is repeat that cycle by refusing to nerf characters that are once again dominating the competitive scene, then maybe Brawl+ isn't as brilliant an idea as it first sounded.

Funny, I don't see Marth "dominating the competitive scene" and making "certain characters completely nonviable in tournament". Perhaps you should look at actual matches from actual tournaments instead of telling us about the results that you and your little group of friends have decided?

Protip: BtL. Funny how you're not *****ing about squirtle. Perhaps this means you haven't done your research?

And when the **** did I mention banning Marth from anything? You really need to think about what you're saying before you decide to post it.

And when the **** did I mention that you did? You really need to read what people say before you decide to insult them.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Where is the text file for the codes now? I need them to make snapshots files so I can take out file replacement.

please.. :[ I want to play brawl+ too. as of now I have absolutely no way unless I get a text file. I've been waiting all day to play with my friend here and we have to play vBrawl instead

someone save us!

 

[stingers]

And as for gimping marth. Speed hug better. If he doesnt sweetspot, punish him with an attack.

The only time a speed hug will 100% work on a Marth is when he is sent so far away, he can only just BARELY make it back to the ledge and cannot spend time stalling. In which case, yes, he can be gimped and you are technically right; however, those situations are also rare. I was referring to the vast majority of the time in which Marth has options.

If you have time with which to speedhug that Marth cannot grab the ledge before you can, he can (usually) stall with side B until he can Up-B you off because the drop in height is (usually) not large enough to matter. Or, if you attempt to speedhug but Marth hits you out of it, well, there's that auto ledge cling I was mentioning earlier.

shanus, the new set was released rather recently but there wasn't enough changes to the game that any character can really stop the variety of options Marth has in any given situation. Which is the problem, he's the Meta Knight of Brawl+ in that he always has an option that can be used to escape. And don't take that to mean he's as broken in this as MK was in vBrawl (because he's definitely not ), it's just that there are no surefire ways to counter Marth which is the problem. Nerf him a bit so he can't juggle so easily, so he can't stop 90% of characters' approaches with a retreating Fair, and so that he doesn't excel in nearly every category, and there will be no more problems.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

please.. :[ I want to play brawl+ too. as of now I have absolutely no way unless I get a text file. I've been waiting all day to play with my friend here and we have to play vBrawl instead

someone save us!

RSBE01
Smash Bros Brawl (US)

Brawlplusery Codeset vs.4.1 Beta

WiiRD Codes

Default Settings Modifier [9 lines]
24494A98 80000000
20523300 00000000
04523300 DEADBEEF
42000000 90000000
0417F360 00000104
0417F364 04020A00
0417F368 08010101
0417F36C 01000000
E0000000 80008000

Stage Modifications:

Level Freezer[Phantom Wings/Almas, 9 Lines]
42000000 90000000
0416A904 00000000
2A180F3A 00000015
0416A904 BF800000
2A180F3A 00000014
2A180F3A 0000001C
0416A904 3F800000
E0000000 80008000

Deadlands
4A000000 90180F3A
38000000 FF000004
48000000 805B8ADC
DE000000 80008180
1400020C 4F000000
3000024C 00000000
1400024C 01010101
3000024D 03030303
1400024C 00000000
E2000001 00000000
14000250 41C00000
14000254 41C00000
1400025C C1C00000
14000260 41C00000
90010000 00000000
58010000 FFFFFDF0
10000150 00000007
14000154 4F000000
4A001000 00000000
58010000 FFFFFDFC
10000150 00000007
14000154 4F000000
E0000000 80008000

New Pork City is now Online Waiting Room:
C298D528 00000003
2C060031 40820008
38C00005 60000000
90DD08C0 00000000
C26DCEE0 00000003
A37A0022 2C1B0020
40820008 3B600037
60000000 00000000

Death Boundary Mod V2[spunit262]
C2931438 0000001D
3C004248 90010008
C0610008 3C004B00
60000800 90010008
C0210008 3C809018
A0640F3A 88840F3C
811D0020 38A2FCD8
84C50008 80E50004
54C0463E 7C001800
40A2009C 54C0673E
2C00000F 41A2000C
7C002000 40A20088
54C0E53F 4182001C
68000800 B001000A
C0010008 FC000828
FC80182A D0880000
54C0452E 50E0463F
4182001C 68000800
B001000A C0410008
FC420828 FC821828
D0880004 54E0A53F
4182001C 68000800
B001000A C0C10008
FCC60828 FC861828
D0880008 54E0053F
4182001C 68000800
B001000A C0E10008
FCE70828 FC87182A
D088000C 7CC03B79
4082FF50 00000000

ASM Codes

Dash Dancing [Phantom Wings, 5 Lines]
C271F474 00000004
81830058 2C0C000E
4182000C C0230040
48000008 FC20D090
60000000 00000000

Ignore Handicap [Y.S.]
04050550 38000000

Buffer scale = Handicap scale [Y.S, Phantom Wings]
C285B784 00000006
807F002C 3C809018
806300F4 60840FDC
1C63005C 7C83202E
3860000A 2C040064
40800008 7C641BD6
60000000 00000000

Shieldstun [spunit262, 6 Lines]
C28753FC 00000005
83810034 8083013C
2C040000 41810014
1F9C0014 3B9C0023
3880000A 7F9C23D6
60000000 00000000

No Autosweetspot Ledges [spunit262, 7 Lines]
C27812B0 00000006
2C04000A 40A20020
8181003C 816C0018
C00B0010 C02B001C
FC000840 40A10008
38000000 5400CFFF
60000000 00000000

Launch Power Modifier [Almas, 28 Lines]
C285765C 0000001B
3BE2FF7C 2C002F00
4082000C C3E2FFA4
480000BC 2C002F20
4082000C 38A3C594
48000034 2C002F14
4082000C 38A3C5A0
48000024 2C002F40
4082000C 38A3C574
48000014 2C002F5C
41820008 4E800020
38A3C558 80850010
2C040017 4082000C
38800003 48000008
80850000 3BA2FEDC
87DD0004 57C5463E
7C052000 41820010
7C1DF800 4082FFEC
4E800020 2C002F20
4082000C 57C0673E
48000028 2C002F14
4082000C 57C0873E
48000018 2C002F40
4082000C 57C0C73E
48000008 57C0A73E
1C000004 7FFF0214
C3FF0000 EC3F0072
4E800020 00000000

Grav Values Modifier [Almas, 16 Lines]
C281CAD0 00000014
3802FF7C 2C080000
40800090 3982FEDC
8088F5B0 2C040017
4082000C 38800003
48000008 8088F5A0
2C040016 40820024
38627000 38634CB8
2C170117 4182000C
7C171800 4082000C
C2EC00D4 48000048
2C09FFFF 40820014
2C040002 4082000C
C2EC00A8 48000030
84AC0004 54A3463E
7C032000 41820010
7C0C0000 4082FFEC
4E800020 54A5E73E
1CA50004 7D802A14
C2EC0000 EC370072
4E800020 00000000

Char ID fix 2.1 [spunit262, The Paprika Killer]
C28152E4 00000006
819E003C 907EFFFC
80E30030 2C07000F
40A2001C 80FE0008
3C008180 7C070000
4080000C 39030008
9107FFFC 00000000

Frame Speed Mod Engine V3.1 [spunit262, Phantom Wings]
C2766C20 00000012
3C008180 807D0008
8063FFFC 7C030000
4080000C 80630030
48000008 386000FF
809D0014 C0240040
FC40081E 81240058
61298000 D8410008
8001000C 80BD007C
80A50038 38C200D8
84E60008 2C070000
41820038 7CE8C671
41A0000C 7C081800
4082FFE8 54E8863E
7C004000 41A0FFDC
54E8043E 7C082800
4182000C 7C084800
4082FFC8 C0060004
D01F0010 00000000
C2766FB8 00000003
2C1D0001 4182000C
C0230010 48000008
C02283C8 00000000

Hitbox Property Mod Engine 2.0 [Phantom Wings, spunit262. Paprika Killer]
C2744A3C 00000019
3C008180 80FC0028
81070008 8108FFFC
7C080000 408000A8
81080030 80DE0020
5106C00E 801E0000
5006821E 801E0018
5006442E 80E7007C
80E70038 813E0030
5127C0CE 801E0014
50076226 390204C8
85480018 81680004
7D405B79 41820060
7C0A3000 4082FFEC
7C0B3800 4082FFE4
88080008 90030004
88080009 9003001C
8808000A 90030024
8808000B 500906FE
91230034 A008000C
90030018 80080010
2C00FFFF 41820008
90030038 C0080014
C03E0010 EC010032
D0030014 7F83E378
60000000 00000000

Hitlag Modifier [Phantom Wings/Almas/spunit262, 10 Lines]
C2771EAC 00000004
2C040002 41800010
1C840005 38840000
39C0000A 7C8473D6
2C040000 00000000
C2876220 00000004
2C040002 41800010
1C840005 38840000
39C0000A 7C8473D6
80660064 00000000

Electric Hitlag Constant:[Phantom Wings]
04B87B10 3F800000

Momentum Capture V4.3 [Phantom wings, spunit262]
C28669D8 00000013
3C008180 809D0008
8084FFFC 7C040000
4080000C 80840030
48000008 3880FFFF
807D007C A0E30006
80630038 2C03000B
40A20044 3C004540
901B000C C05B000C
38A2FE5C 84C50004
7CC0C671 4180000C
7C002000 4082FFF0
54C0027E 6C004540
901B000C C01B000C
FC001028 C03B0008
FC210032 2C030022
41800014 2C04002F
40A20010 2C070112
41A00008 D03B0008
60000000 00000000
C277F794 00000002
801E0034 B01E0006
801E0048 00000000

Dash Cancel V2.1 [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
C2764EBC 00000007
90810014 54846CFE
2C0417E5 41A00024
809EFFFC 80A4007C
80A50038 2C050005
40A20010 3C004F00
80840014 90040040
60000000 00000000

Shield during Dashdance [spunit262/Phantom Wings, 6 Lines]
C2764F38 00000005
8081009C 80A4007C
80A50038 2C050003
40A20010 3C004F00
80840014 90040040
60600008 00000000

Tech Window v.05  [spunit262]
C277F190 00000012
80810010 2C040046
41A00080 2C04004C
41A10078 80BF0068
88C5008F 2C06000F
41A10068 88E5008E
7CC63A14 2C060032
41800058 2C040049
41820050 41A00008
3884FFFC 3884FFBA
5484083C 38840060
2C040062 41810030
41820010 80C50038
54C66D3E 48000014
80E50074 50E4EFFE
80C5003C 7CC69E70
2C0607E5 41A00008
60840001 90810010
60000000 00000000
C2765394 00000005
88C30058 2C060032
41A10014 7C060214
2C0000FF 41800008
380000FE 98030058
60000000 00000000

Conditional Action Modifier [The Paprika Killer, Almas]
C277F780 0000000E
2C030000 41820060
3C008180 80BF0008
80A5FFFC 7C050000
4080004C 80A50030
80DE0038 38E2FE00
85070008 7D09C671
41820034 2C09FFFF
41A2000C 7C092800
4082FFE8 5509043E
7C093000 4082FFDC
81070004 5509843E
7C09E000 4082FFCC
551C043E 60000000
939E0038 00000000

ganon, falcon, toon link, and bowser upB momentum [Phantom Wings, The Paprika Killer]
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
30000000 00000009
66000001 00000000
30000001 0000000B
66000001 00000000
30000001 00000029
66000001 00000000
30000001 00000014
66000001 00000000
30000001 0000000C
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
90010002 00000000
48001002 0000007C
30000038 00000114
48001002 00000018
92210003 00000040
48001002 00000088
58010000 0000002C
94210003 0000004C
48001002 0000007C
14000004 00000001
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

Ganon Down+B Recovery Fix
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
30000001 00000014
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
90010002 00000000
48001002 0000007C
30000038 00000114
48001002 00000018
92210003 00000040
48001002 00000088
58010000 0000002C
94210003 0000004C
48001002 0000007C
30000039 00000115
48001002 00000070
58010000 00000020
58010000 0000000C
14000004 00000001
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

Constants

Jump/Grav Values [29 Lines]
065A9200 000000E0
0025CB60 0114F440
02687580 0325EB40
0465CB40 05448440
0626AC80 0744A440
0834C440 0926AC80
0A76A7A0 0B33C530
0C36CB60 0D24C440
0E35CA60 0F06E840
11A975C0 1244C440
1326AC80 14568440
1544C440 1624E830
1745C850 1824C640
1935CB60 1A55E950
1B35CA60 1D45CA30
1E26E640 1F55C640
2045A340 216875C0
22468550 2345CA60
2534E440 2944EA40
2C55C180 2E36CB60
2F34ED40 3F4CCCCD
3F59999A 3F666666
3F733333 3F800000
3F833333 3F866666
3F89999A 3F8CCCCD
3F900000 3F933333
3F966666 3F99999A
3FA00000 3FA66666
3FB33333 3ECCCCCC

Frame Speed Modifier Data [102 Lines]
065A9400 00000328
01000040 3F2AAAAA
02000018 4036DB61
02100034 3FC00000
020B0118 3F800000
02000118 3FC00000
020A0026 3FA00000
02000028 3F8CCCCC
03190125 40000000
03140123 40000000
03190034 3FCCCCCC
04050021 3F800000
0400001C 40000000
04140034 3FC00000
09000018 40200000
0A050021 3F800000
0A270026 3FCCCCCC
0A000040 3FAAAAAA
0A10002F 3FE00000
0A060028 3FC00000
0B0D0028 3FC00000
0B000027 3F999999
0B000019 3FAAAAAB
0B190029 3FC4EC4F
0C200021 40000000
0C050021 3F800000
0D000027 3F999999
0D00011A 3FC00000
0D000019 3FC00000
0E128063 40000000
0F420115 40000000
0F370113 3FC00000
0F088048 3FC00000
110F0028 3FC80000
1200806B 3F800000
120F002F 3F59999A
12008075 3FAA3D70
130E0028 40000000
13070115 3FC00000
13040115 3F800000
13000115 3F000000
14160118 40000000
141C0024 40400000
14140024 3F000000
14000024 40600000
14108063 3F800000
140F8063 3E800000
14008068 40200000
140F011E 3FECCCCC
16000112 3F400000
16000118 3F2AAAAB
16000019 3F2AAAAB
190A0026 3F800000
19000026 3FC00000
1A050021 3F800000
1A000040 3FAAAAAA
1A080034 3FC00000
1A080028 3F966666
1A000018 40200000
1A000032 3F933333
1A1F0026 3F333333
1A000026 3F99999A
1A02000C 3FA00000
1A000113 3FB33333
1D1B8065 3FE00000
1D008066 3FC00000
1D128066 3F800000
1D148066 3FC00000
1D140027 3FE00000
1F1A81D8 40A00000
1F000113 3FA00000
1F14002F 3FA00000
1F078028 3F800000
1F008028 3FA66666
1F100034 3F999999
1F0C8066 40000000
20000024 3FA00000
201B8066 40000000
21000114 3FC00000
2100011C 41A00000
221D8062 40000000
250A0029 3FC00000
29100034 3FC00000
2C148066 3FB33333
2F210032 40000000
2F13002D 3F000000
2F06002D 3F800000
2F00002D 40000000
2F10002F 3F800000
2F00002F 40000000
2F140028 3FE00000
2F008075 3FAA3D70
FF000018 40000000
FF000074 40800000
FF000061 3FA66666
FF000041 3FD55555
FF00000A 3FA66666
FF0E0054 40A00000
FF200021 3F800000
FF1E0021 3F000000
FF130021 3F800000
FF050021 40000000

Hitbox Property Mod Data [Phantom Wings, spunit262] 667 lines
065A9800 000014D0 
00075050 0004B033
07503C00 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
000C501E 00169033
0C641E00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
000D4B14 00118033
0D4B2800 01180000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
000A5014 00169033
0A501400 015E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020C4844 02169118
0C485502 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02094844 02169118
09484402 00100000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02095037 02169118
09503702 00100000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02075037 02169118
07503702 00100000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02075014 02169118
07501402 00100000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020F5A19 0216902C
0F5A1902 00190000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020E5A19 0216902C
0E5A1902 00190000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020C325A 02050029
0C324002 01180000
06200000 3F800000
02055014 02169118
05501402 00100000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020A5046 02050032
0A5F4B02 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020A5046 0205A032
0A5F4B02 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02095046 0205A032
095F4B02 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02085046 0205A032
085F4B02 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02096405 02169033
06052802 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02046400 00048033
04002300 00480000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02046400 00044033
04002300 00480000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02074646 00169033
073C3200 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020F5512 02050033
0F551902 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
02061E3C 0202D07F
061E3C02 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020A501E 0205A026
0A3C2802 006E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020C501E 02050026
0A3C2802 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020B501E 02046026
0A3C2802 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
020B501E 0203C026
0A3C2802 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0309500A 00169033
09781600 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
030D6414 0016902C
0D5A3800 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
040E3F1E 0001E02F
0E501E00 00170000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
040E351E 0001E02F
0E461E00 00170000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
040D3F1E 0001E02F
0D501E00 00170000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
040D351E 0001E02F
0D461E00 00170000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050C500A 00169033
0C503C00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050A500A 00169033
0A503C00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0508500A 00169033
08503C00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0506500A 00169033
06503C00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
05076628 0005C028
07663700 005C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
05056628 00058028
05663700 00580000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0609640A 00169033
09641400 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
06066400 00169033
06680A00 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
060A6E16 0006E028
07872F00 00540000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
06086E12 00054028
07872F00 00540000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
06086E12 00050028
07892F00 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
06032821 0011D033
02282100 011D0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0602140A 00023024
02141400 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0602140A 00050024
02141400 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0B0C5028 02169033
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0B0B5028 02169033
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0B0B5046 00050117
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0B144B2D 0004C11A
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0C057828 00046033
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0C055026 0209102F
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0C0F443C 00169033
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0D05D214 0305A032
05B41E03 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0E096C00 0001E033
09780000 001E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0E056414 0005A027
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0F0C5F28 00028033 
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000 
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0F0C661E 0003C02F
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000 
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000 
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0F02820F 0001E113
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0F058014 00169044 
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000 
0F097132 00053032 
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000 
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095F1E00 000A0000 
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0F087132 0005302F
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000 
0F08711E 0003C02F 
085F1E00 000A0000 
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
0F0C0A14 0010E033
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000 
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
110A4628 02169033
08462A02 00280000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
110D5028 02169033
0B502A02 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
110A4628 02050033
08462802 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
110D5028 0005A033
0B5F2A00 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
110D4446 02169114
0A444602 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
110D4446 0204A114
0A444602 004A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031923 0204B113
03192302 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11041923 02058113
03192302 00580000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11041923 02014113
03182302 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031932 02014113
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031E16 0204B11A
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031E16 0205A11A
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031E16 0202811A
021E1602 00280000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031E16 0200A11A
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031E14 0204611A
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11041E14 0205011A
031E1402 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031E14 0203C11A
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11031E14 0202811A
021E1402 00280000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11046400 0201E11B
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11056400 0201E11B
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11046400 0201911B
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11046400 0201411B
03640002 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1104501E 0216911B
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1105501E 0216911B
04501E02 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1104501E 0210E11B
03501E02 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11043C1E 0203C11B
033C1E02 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11053C1E 0203C11B
043C1E02 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11043C1E 0203211B
033C1E02 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11043C1E 0201E11B
033C1E02 001E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11067D32 0216911C
047D3202 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11087D32 0216911C
057D3202 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
11022802 0205011C
01281402 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1103783C 0216911C
02783C02 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1105783C 0216911C
03783C02 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1106823C 0205011C
04823C02 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1108823C 0205011C
05823C02 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
13061E23 03169115
061E500F 00780000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
13033C50 02032033
033C5002 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
140B641E 13041114
0B64320F 002D0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
140C463C 1302D115
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
140A463C 1302D115
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
140F6432 13122115
0F643213 01180000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
140E6432 13050115
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
16093C5A 0201E11D
09533702 001E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
160B5D32 0216902F
0B501E02 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
160D5A32 0216902F
0D501E02 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
16036400 02062033
00000001 00620000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
16036400 0205A033
00000001 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
170B3250 02050029
0B325002 01180000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
18104B3C 05032113
0D504103 00320000
8F2009E8 3F800000
180A641E 0316902C
0C642503 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
18064623 00169033
06002300 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1A0A5A1E 03169033
0A5A1E03 01180000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1A0C4C3C 0304B026
0A233C03 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1A0A283C 0304B026
05640003 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1D020000 05019033
02B00A05 00190000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1E06641E 00056028
04963200 00560000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1E0C5E1E 0002D033
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FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1E065A1E 0002D033
04872000 002D0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1E0A6114 00169033
08791600 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1E065A14 00169033
04871600 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1E0B5E1E 00050033
09732D00 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F085014 1110E033
08502811 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F0A5C20 11032033
0A5C2011 00500000 
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F021414 11050033
05141411 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F03A00A 11037033
05A00A11 00370000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F02AA0A 11037033
05AA0A11 00370000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F02A00A 11037033
05A00A11 00370000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F106120 11053033
0E612211 00530000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F0C4650 00046026
0C465000 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1F0A322D 00046026
0A322D00 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
20053214 00055024
05003700 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
200B6414 00169137
0B642800 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
201E501E 05169137
1E503205 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
20058C32 00046033
05025A00 00460000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
20058C32 00050033
05025A00 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
20058232 00046033
05963200 00460000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
20058232 00050033
05963200 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
21068221 15060028
06643715 00600000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
21068226 15060028
06643715 00600000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2106822B 15060028
06823715 00600000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
21081E14 15057033
08001415 00570000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
21081E14 15050033
08001415 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
23065037 0005A028
06142800 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
23036400 0005A028
03142800 002D0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
23036400 00069028
03142800 002D0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
250F4B64 0E058115
1F327605 002D0000
8BA05276 3F800000
290A6E00 0205002C
0A3C2002 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
290A6E00 0204C02C
0A3C2002 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
290A6E00 0202D02C
0A3C2002 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
290A6E00 0200A02C
0A3C2002 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
29066400 020AA02F
06004B02 00B00000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
29066400 020B402F
06004B02 00B00000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2C0F5A06 0210E033
0F5A2002 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2C0B5F28 0204B033
0B6E2802 00690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2C03640A 00169033
04642800 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000 
2C016400 00169033 
02642800 01690000 
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2C010000 00169033
01642800 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2E056400 00050033
05320000 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2E0F6428 0010D033
0F642800 010D0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2F0B501E 00169033
0B553200 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2F085514 00169033
08551E00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
6619381E 03028008
19462003 00280000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
6F0A4128 05037000
0F482805 00280000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
7302280A 11056000
023C0F11 00560000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
7301280A 11050000
013C0F11 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
6E006400 12037000
00460512 00320000
00000000 3F800000 
6F000000 12169000
00460512 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
49046400 0006E000
04320F00 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
490D3C5A 00037002
0D3C3C00 00500020
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
49065A3C 0016902F
065A4600 000F0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
4908583C 0016902F
08643C00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
49065A3C 1316902F
0A363C13 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
49065A3C 0304602F
06643C03 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
49075A3C 0516902F
075A5005 002C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
4902B405 E4046FFF
023C0504 00E10000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
49018205 E4046FFF
013C0504 00E10000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
49011E05 E4169FFF
013C0504 00E10000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
6E033205 04169001
05450504 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
64072850 02046002
0A1E5002 00460000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
6405283C 02041002
081E3C02 00410000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
73036400 03169000
02640003 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
640B6423 E3169FFF
0D6428E3 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
64066423 E3169FFF
086425E3 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
6406641E E305AFFF
081080E3 006A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Conditional Action Modifier Data [8 lines]
065A9128 00000038
01000130 0010000F
0400011A 0010000F
0A00011A 011B000F
0D000118 0010000F
1700011D 0010000F
2100011C 0010000F
2200011C 0010000F

Momentum Capture Data [5 Lines]
065A9180 00000020
07000D9A 21000C00
1A001333 20000B33
16000C00 2F001C00
1800119A FF000ECC

No Stale Moves [spunit262]
02FC0988 00130000

Tripping Rate Modifier [KirbyIsCool]
0481CB34 C0220020
045A9340 00000000

Triple Jump Glitch Fix [Phantom Wings/spunit262]
04858DCC 38830003

P.Trainer Infinite Stamina [Phantom Wings/spunit262]
04A8BDAC 60000000

Hitstun Modifier [Phantom Wings/spunit262]
02B88F48 00030001
04B87AA8 3EF91687

C-Stick Fastfalls Modifier [spunit262/Phantom Wings]
0485E27C 40A20008
0485E278 2C000001

Powershield window Modifier [spunit262]
04B88F20 00000002

Infinite Replays
040EB804 60000000

scar jumping [Cross1955, spunt262]
04b88efc 00000000

Tags in replays [Y.S]
0404B140 38A00000

Online Handicap Disable [spunit262]
046F3DA4 60000000

Ledge Invincibility Duration (Y.S.)
04B88EB4 00000022

Grab Jump Return [Phantom wings]
C29131B0 00000005
8095007C 80840038
2C04003D 40820014
38800001 80B40020
80A5000C 90850004
809900AC 00000000

Death boundary data
065A9000 00000040
02F0F070 F9000F86
30F0F080 F8000000
01F0F0D0 F3000F88
1CF0F3D0 C3000000
21F0F190 E7000000
0DF0F110 EF000000
14F0EFE1 02000000
2DF0F1A0 E6000000

Cosmetic Stuff

Unrestricted Pause camera
040A7D60 4E800020
04109D88 38800001

Unrestricted Replay Camera (6 lines)
0409E934 60000000
0409E93C 60000000
0409E9AC FC201890
0409E9B8 FC600090
0409E9BC FC000890
0409E9C8 FC001890

CSS fixes for Samus/ZSS and Zelda/Shiek V2 [spunit262] (6 Lines)
80693D50 38800004
06693D6C 00000008
38000000 3880000F
046900E8 60000000
04697F58 60000000
04697EEC 60000000

CSS fixes for Giga and Company V2 [spunit262] (10 Lines)
C2684940 00000002
9BB400B8 57BD06BE
2C1D001B 00000000
040AF8D4 546025B6
040AF964 546025B6
040AF830 546025B6
040AF528 546025B6
040AF810 546025B6
040AF880 546025B6
040AF848 546025B6

Yeroc's Custom CSS V3 [spunit262] [17 lines]
0668310C 00000030
387E006C 3B600000
3C808068 38840DE0
7CBB20AE 7CA50775
41800014 94A30004
3B7B0001 2C1B0032
4180FFE8 48000038
04690338 48000068
066900d8 00000008
2c170028 41820168
02680DE0 0022FFFF
06680DE0 00000029
00090D0C 0515011A
0A071325 1002240E
0F140616 1F172903
040B1908 23201B5D
5E5C1121 18221226
27000000 00000000
*
Custom Random V1 [spunit262] (10 Lines)
06685824 0000000C
3C608068 7C630214
88630E80 00000000
046857F0 3AE00028
06680E80 00000028
00090D0C 0515011A
0A071325 1002240E
0F140616 1F170304
0B190823 201B5D5E
5C112118 22122627

Independent Pokemon Engine +no wreck My Music V2 [spunit262] (11 lines)
06407BD0 0000000E
04030F0D 1E1B1F1B
201B211B 221B0000
C2684964 00000007
881400B8 2C00003F
41A00028 2C03001D
40A20008 3860001E
2C03001F 40A20008
38600020 2C030021
40A20008 38600022
987400B8 00000000

File Replacment: v2.1a[Phantom Wings]
225664EC 00000000
0401BFE0 4858BE20
065A7E00 00000070
38A00067 38810020
3CE0805A 60E37C18
4BE52531 38A0007F
3883FFE8 38610020
4BE52521 38A00068
60E47C18 38610020
9421FF80 BC410008
38610088 4BA74DB9
7C7C1B78 2C030000
4082000C 38210080
4800001C B8410008
38210080 4BE524E5
38610008 4BA742E1
7C7C1B78 4BA741E8
0401CD0C 4858B1F4
065A7F00 00000018
2C030000 4182000C
4BA7DD51 48000008
8078000C 4BA74DFC
043EE9D8 48000014
043EEBD4 48000014
043D8B9C 48000018
043E9B4C 38600000
043E9D38 38600000
043D8C80 60000000
80000000 80406920
80000001 805A7C00
8A001001 00000000
045A7C10 2F525342
045A7C14 452F7066
E0000000 80008000

Colored shields [Phantom wings] (20 lines)
4A000000 80F59A60
14000088 FF3AB700
14000090 FF000000
140000A0 FF000000
140000A8 00000000
4A000000 80F59ED4
14000088 00FFFF00
14000090 0000FF00
140000A0 0080FF00
140000A8 00000000
4A000000 80F5A348
14000088 FAF9E100
14000090 FFFF0000
140000A0 FFFF8000
140000A8 00000000
4A000000 80F5A7BC
14000088 88FCAE00
14000090 00FF0000
140000A0 00C00000
140000A8 00000000

 

[stingers]

Interesting. I love how you've begun to completely avoid my arguments to instead attempt to assume that I'm assuming. Rather than talk about on-topic, actual pertinent information, you're trying to rely on using big words, personal attacks, and semantic fluff to argue your point.

In other words, you have no counterarguments. Maybe you should look up the definition of an "ad hominem" argument. It's usually the first sign that you're losing the argument.

What are you talking about?! I provided a counterargument for absolutely everything you said and then you make up bull**** like this. I don't know why I'm even bothering arguing with you if you're going to sit here and...lie like that.

Funny, I don't see Marth "dominating the competitive scene" and making "certain characters completely nonviable in tournament". Perhaps you should look at actual matches from actual tournaments instead of telling us about the results that you and your little group of friends have decided?

Can you please reread what I said? It's quite clear I was talking about Melee, because I was responding to what you said about Marth in Melee, because you were once again trying to prove a point and failing at it. I don't even know why you said this, because it's incredibly obvious I was talking about Melee...I guess you're hoping people will just read what you say and thus agree with you? I don't know.

Protip: BtL. Funny how you're not *****ing about squirtle. Perhaps this means you haven't done your research?

What's wrong with Squirtle? Why would I mention Squirtle at all? Lol. He's a combo machine, but he has a short recovery and no range on his attacks. He's sort of like a faster jiggs, but...his killing moves (Usmash, Dthrow) aren't as easy to land. He's good, but he's not broken.

And when the **** did I mention that you did? You really need to read what people say before you decide to insult them.

Uh

You said

"Do you see people *****ing about how he should be banned in tournaments? No?"

You tell me what you were trying to say there plz <.<

 

[shanus]

Stingers, think of one of the things you requested which isnt a bread and butter move. We tried.

Higher Alr on fair? Ruins double fair AND fair dtilt, two marth staples.

More lag? Same problem.

Shrink hitboxes? Last resort and very ugly.

Nerf damage? Makes him work harder to get the job done and makes his KBG severely worse.
Easily the most appealing option.

I think you are discounting our approach thinking we didnt think critically on it. If anything its quite the opposite. There is no simple fix for it. If you have one, say so now, but ao far you have only recycled what we already said.

 

[stingers]

Is there a way to make his sword part of his body? It makes no sense, but it'd definitely balance him. It might actually nerf him a bit too hard...maybe just for problem moves like Fair.

 

[Arkaether]

What are you talking about?! I provided a counterargument for absolutely everything you said and then you make up bull**** like this. I don't know why I'm even bothering arguing with you if you're going to sit here and...lie like that.

Read the paragraph in your post that I was referring to. Tell me a single counter-argument you raised there BESIDES "lol you're assuming things gtfo".

Can you please reread what I said? It's quite clear I was talking about Melee, because I was responding to what you said about Marth in Melee, because you were once again trying to prove a point and failing at it. I don't even know why you said this, because it's incredibly obvious I was talking about Melee...I guess you're hoping people will just read what you say and thus agree with you? I don't know.

You're saying "Marth is bad because of this and this". "this" and "this" are not in B+. Pray tell me, then, kind sir, exactly how Marth is bad in B+? Perhaps, rather than trying to demean me by claiming that I am "trying to prove a point and failing at it", you should first try to bolster your own pitifully inept and weak arguments that have no basis whatsoever in fact? Funny how you try to relate Marth in melee to Marth in B+, then go berserk when I tell you that Marth in melee is not Marth in B+.

What's wrong with Squirtle? Why would I mention Squirtle at all? Lol. He's a combo machine, but he has a short recovery and no range on his attacks. He's sort of like a faster jiggs, but...his killing moves (Usmash, Dthrow) aren't as easy to land. He's good, but he's not broken.

As I said. Perhaps you should see actual matches in actual tournaments from actually good players instead of telling us about the results that you and your little friends have decided.

Uh

You said

"Do you see people *****ing about how he should be banned in tournaments? No?"

You tell me what you were trying to say there plz <.<

I was trying to say MARTH IN MELEE IS NOT BROKENLY GOOD in response to your MARTH IN BRAWL+ IS BROKENLY GOOD JUST LIKE MARTH IN MELEE. There, I even capitalized the statements that are pertinent since you seem to have a hard time understanding these things.

 

[goodoldganon]

We also have no concrete proof that Marth is or even was super over powered. Marth is fine as he is now. He combo's very slightly better, but it takes him a while to build that damage. Fact is Marth, like MK, is designed to be a good character. Nerfing him is tough cause it's either he is really good or really bad. Play more against Marth, we are convinced he isn't too good anymore.

I'd like if we could move onto someone else guys. It's a back and forth argument. Neko GREATLY underestimates Marth and lots of other people overestimate him. Let him play out more. Give me vids and hard data if you want us to take another pass at Marth.

P.S. Neko, Marth is awesome. Get your head out of your ***

 

[Wolf of Ice]

Nub question, what's BtL? I see it being referred to but I don't know what it is. Is it a tournament?

 

[goodoldganon]

Nub question, what's BtL? I see it being referred to but I don't know what it is. Is it a tournament?

Beyond the Limit. The most recent, huge Brawl+ tournament.

 

[stingers]

He combo's very slightly better, but it takes him a while to build that damage.

I have to disagree with you there. Marth has some combos that can get you from 0-60 in a short amount of time. Fair->Uair->Utilt->Usmash is guaranteed (at 0), not to mention the juggling you can do afterwards.

Also

Fact is Marth, like MK, is designed to be a good character. Nerfing him is tough cause it's either he is really good or really bad. Play more against Marth, we are convinced he isn't too good anymore.

These all seem to contradict themselves. First you say he's designed to be good and is either really good or really bad, then you say he's not that good anymore.

 

[Arkaether]

Indeed, let's talk about someone else. Like Jigglypuff, is it possible to give her an increased aerial mobility like wario or yoshi? It just feels odd that a cute little air-filled balloon character specifically built for aerial attacks moves slower than some fat middle-aged stout little man who likes to fart.

I have to disagree with you there. Marth has some combos that can get you from 0-60 in a short amount of time. Fair->Uair->Utilt->Usmash is guaranteed, not to mention the juggling you can do afterwards.

lrn2DI

 

[thesage]

Srsly, stop getting into a pissing fight. Instead of both sides resorting to flaming each other actually state your opinions. The only opinion I have is that the argument that you have to outmindgame Marth to beat him is probably the worst argument I've ever heard. It's the equivalent of saying be much better than your opponent to beat him...

Also, Marth is a transvestite. Can his transvestiteness be nerfed in brawl+ and make him more like his Fe11 self? (he also sucks in fe11 so that'd be a plus)

 

[stingers]

It's guaranteed, dude. Like, guaranteed guaranteed.

Okay, I'm sure a Robot could SDI every possible frame and escape. Sorry.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

win

You saved our nights

no really. thanks SO much. I couldn't take vBrawl metaknight anymore lol.

 

[Arkaether]

stinger, you'd be awfully surprised at the amount of "guaranteed" combos that are, in fact, extremely easy to escape with proper DI.

thesage: the "Mindgamez" comment was sarcasm. SARCASM. SARCASM.

 

[goodoldganon]

I said TOO good. Not that he wasn't still awesome. TOO good is MK in vBrawl. Dwarfing the other characters (though I hear he is much more manageable now a days). Either way, get off Marth. We are happy were Marth stands. If you have Marth debates then show me vids of these combos and your hard facts. If not then please talk about something else.

Ark, I am unsure if we can speed up aerial speed for Jigglypuff. She's another character I think is good and you underestimate her, or just want her better cause you main her. Either way, as I have said, Rest is probably too strong right now, but against good experienced opponents who aren't fast fallers it's tough to lead into. I could see giving her increased aerial mobility would make it easier to connect with Rest and then lead into a rest nerf. *Shrugs* We haven't begun to discuss Jigglypuff's final polish, so feel free to post about her in her topic or here.

 

[stingers]

My friend mains Jiggs. She's fine, I agree with her description in her topic as a glass cannon. Dies insanely early, but can ****. The Rest combos are nice but they don't KO nearly as early as they did in Brawl, and are harder to get. I think Jiggs is very nicely balanced. Maybe do something to make her Sing useful so it's no longer the laughing-stock of SSB?

 

[Arkaether]

GoG, I can assure you that while I am in full support of Jigglypuff buffs, my maining of her is not obscuring my intention to fully balance her out. I seriously feel she's somewhat lacking in some areas (though she is indeed awesome in others). It is entirely possible that I'm underestimating her.

As for Rest, it is indeed good, but the main setups are utilt and auto-canceled uair. Utilt is slow, with bad range and priority, that only hits behind her. Auto-canceled uair involves literally getting in their face, at a range where you could pretty much rest them anyway. Unless you're Fox, it's generally really hard to get a good Rest off against a good player.

Rather, the reason I want increased aerial mobility is because it would make her aerial game so much better. WoP (the tactic) would be just as good. WoP (the combo) would be unaffected. She'd be pretty much as good as she used to be. Honestly, I'd be more than willing to take a Rest nerf in return for better aerial mobility. Rest is a major part of her game, mainly because of the threat of rest hanging over your opponent's head, but I hate the fact that her entire game is based around that one move. I believe that her aerial game should be buffed and priority should be put over that, rather than Rest. Rest is good, but I don't want Jigglypuff being a one-trick pony.

stinger, yes, she's a glass cannon, but ONLY because of Rest. Without rest, she'd just be a decent aerial character who dies insanely early. And yes, please do SOMETHING about sing. Something, anything, just so that it has some semblance of a use besides as a fourth taunt.

 

[goodoldganon]

GoG, I can assure you that while I am in full support of Jigglypuff buffs, my maining of her is not obscuring my intention to fully balance her out. I seriously feel she's somewhat lacking in some areas (though she is indeed awesome in others). It is entirely possible that I'm underestimating her.

As for Rest, it is indeed good, but the main setups are utilt and auto-canceled uair. Utilt is slow, with bad range and priority, that only hits behind her. Auto-canceled uair involves literally getting in their face, at a range where you could pretty much rest them anyway. Unless you're Fox, it's generally really hard to get a good Rest off against a good player.

Rather, the reason I want increased aerial mobility is because it would make her aerial game so much better. WoP (the tactic) would be just as good. WoP (the combo) would be unaffected. She'd be pretty much as good as she used to be. Honestly, I'd be more than willing to take a Rest nerf in return for better aerial mobility. Rest is a major part of her game, mainly because of the threat of rest hanging over your opponent's head, but I hate the fact that her entire game is based around that one move. I believe that her aerial game should be buffed and priority should be put over that, rather than Rest. Rest is good, but I don't want Jigglypuff being a one-trick pony.

Edit: stinger, yes, she's a glass cannon, but ONLY because of Rest. Without rest, she'd just be a decent aerial character who dies insanely early. And yes, please do SOMETHING about sing. Something, anything, just so that it has some semblance of a use besides as a fourth taunt.

Duly noted. I am sorry to accuse you of the main stigma, I never like doing it. My apologies. As I said, we haven't started to even consider Jigglypuff on our final polishes, but I'll be sure to consult you and fellow mains when the time comes.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

You saved our nights

no really. thanks SO much. I couldn't take vBrawl metaknight anymore lol.

No problem at all, dude.

Didn't see your posts before, my bad.

 

[stingers]

Yeah I just talked to my friend and he seriously thinks that Jiggs is perfect how she is now. She has enough mobility to pseudo-combo and those few actual combos are enough to make her pretty **** good. Rest is the one thing that separates her from Wario or Squirtle or other aerial heavy characters. She's really balanced quite well, just change sing and she'll be fine.

It's not like Rest is her only viable killer, have you seen Fair? That thing is obnoxious.

 

[Wolf of Ice]

While on the subject of useless moves, does Ganon's Utilt have a purpose?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

While on the subject of useless moves, does Ganon's Utilt have a purpose?

Punishing a whiffed Rest, hilariously bad positioning for your opponent, sandbagging.

 

[stingers]

Ganons Utilt is used to kill a Jiggs who missed a rest.

It's pretty character specific, but that's Nintendo for you.

Edit: Dammit tatsu

 

[cookieM0Nster]

While on the subject of useless moves, does Ganon's Utilt have a purpose?

playing with rolling crates

otherwise, no.

 

[Arkaether]

Ganon's utilt? Pretty much punishing rest, yeah. And it can combo if you've got a spicy curry and the opponent's been locked into it. And occasional rolling crate lulz. Aside from that, worthless.

As for jigglypuff, her major unique points are Rest and WoP. Rest is still in, yes, but WoP isn't really nearly as good as it should be, seeing as her mobility isn't good enough to retreat fast enough to get out of danger. Aerial mobility wouldn't really affect rest combos, seeing as rest combos are all utilt or uair based, and mobility is side-to-side movement. At the moment, she's really just a slower and lighter wario/squirtle/aerial-only kirby with the single trick of Rest. It'd be nice if she had a lot more uniqueness as a character.

stinger: She has a bunch of viable killers, but they usually only KO at 130-140%. Rest KOs at 50-60%. Considering that she herself dies at like 80%, it's kind of meh.

 

[goodoldganon]

Situational edgeguard. If you guys want to tweak one of Ganon's lol powererful but slow moves, start talking about Warlock Punch. THAT actually has no uses.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Make it do like 2% damage, but make it as fast as Fox's lazer. that would be funny, lol

It would be an awesome jab that would suck, but it would STILL be better.

 

[GHNeko]

Neko GREATLY underestimates Marth and lots of other people overestimate him. Let him play out more. Give me vids and hard data if you want us to take another pass at Marth.

P.S. Neko, Marth is awesome. Get your head out of your ***

10 dollars says if Marth was a newcomer to Brawl, you wouldnt think he's as great as you do now. :V

Marth has that 2gud stigma from Melee and Brawl. :V



Protip: I've never EVER said marth is anything less than very good, which is what he is.

 

[stingers]

Jiggs isn't meant to be a tank, she's supposed to kill later then she dies at, but Nintendo realized she'd be worthless if that happened every time so they gave her Rest. Ergo, it's supposed to kill early. It normally kills around 30% in Brawl+, which isn't as insane as it was in Melee (good), but not as horrid as Brawl (good). Rest is fine how it is.

She combos like a machine, but it's not supposed to be the kind of combos you would see Squirtle or Falcon use, it's supposed to be the kind of combos that end in Jiggs running away to set up for another one. With the exception of rest combos, Jiggs uses combos only to build damage so she can finish with a single fair/fsmash/whatever. To that end, she doesn't need WoP like she had in Brawl, her "pseudo" WoP that isn't as good as it was in Melee is just fine. She also has numerous strings that she can chain together with Uair/Pound/Fair/Whatever. She can combo how she is, she doesn't need more mobility.

This comes from my friend, a (B+) Jiggs main. He's sitting next to me, right now. That's what he thinks about the character he mains.

 

[CountKaiser]

We're talking about useless moves?

How about G&W's chef? >.>

 

[Arkaether]

No, jiggs combo game isn't really about damage-building combos. She's all about gimping, and offstage WoP combos. THAT's the kind of combos she's all about. She can build damage well with combos, yes (utilt/uair), but any real "damage-building combos" (utilt/uair) are better off leading into Rest. Bair/Nair/Fair combos are all about gimping or offstage WoP. Thing is, jigglypuff only excels in ONE area, and that is offstage. She's the worst ground character in the game hands down, and her onstage aerial game is decent, but not good. Characters like luigi, wario, and squirtle are just as good if not better in those categories. Offstage is what she excels in.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

ganons utilt is good at edge gaurding..
a few things I would want in b+ is a somewhat modified version of stale moves if possible and instead of the previous 50% ledge invinsibility used in earlier sets try 75% of the 100 it has now

 

[Wolf of Ice]

Warlock Punch- I dunno, knock it down 10 frames? That'd put it closer to the Falcon Punch.. I heard somewhere that double reversing it gives a nice momentum boost which is handy in a top corner, is this true?

I like the idea of making useless moves have one small use so that a move isn't 100% useless, just not very good.