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Brawl Moveset Discussion Week 7: Front Smash
- Thread starter illinialex24
- Start date
Hehe, more thread spam by alex. I would suggest putting it all in one thread but W/E.
Lolz, I don't have much knowledge on jiggly, but from personal experiance....
Its really really really slow, if it misses you're sure to be punished, HARD.
Only use if you know its going to hit, because it does excellent damage and has decent range, I'd say its jigglys equivilant to ikes Fsmash.
Lolz, I don't have much knowledge on jiggly, but from personal experiance....
Its really really really slow, if it misses you're sure to be punished, HARD.
Only use if you know its going to hit, because it does excellent damage and has decent range, I'd say its jigglys equivilant to ikes Fsmash.
PND
Smash Champion
Tech chase killa. That's about it. It's too slow and unsafe on block to have other use.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Nah cause if you put it in 1 thread, than its really annoying when your trying to link back. Veril however with his link thing is linking all of these threads in for the discussions so its easy to navigate.
Airgemini
Chansey
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2007
- Messages
- 9,410
- 3DS FC
- 2406-5625-4787
Not really a good move imo.
It's powerful because by the time you use it it'll be uber fresh, but its so slow, and easy to see coming.
It's powerful because by the time you use it it'll be uber fresh, but its so slow, and easy to see coming.
Veril
Frame Savant
It can punish some spotdodges and rolls, botched autocancels, techchase and you can d-air trip to f-smash if the opponent isn't expecting it (generally I do this if they manage to DI out of rest range).
I actually like this move a good deal. Its gonna be fresh since it never gets used and it packs a punch. Just be smart with how you use it.
I actually like this move a good deal. Its gonna be fresh since it never gets used and it packs a punch. Just be smart with how you use it.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Remember if it gets shielded, no matter your opponent they get a good free attack. The trick is to use it when the opponent can't expect it. Unfortunately, unlike U-smash, which is very hard to telegraph, this move is fairly easy to see. However, it is useful if you anticipate the opponent will commit to something and you know this will beat it out, like an air dodge while landing. Although this is better punished by U-smash. F-smash though has the benefit of killing mid-70's if you're near a side blast zone, which is amazing.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
im agreeing on using it as a way to deal w/ commited actions, or near the ledge cause then if they block they get pushed onto the edge.
Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
Pretty much a punishing/prediction move. Your opponent will usually see it coming. Kills very well though.
M-WUZ-H3R3
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2008
- Messages
- 1,793
F-smash is very lagy, but starts up fairly fast. It's a pretty good move if you use it right.
A very useful kill move, and a combo right after a double jab lock.
A very useful kill move, and a combo right after a double jab lock.
good lag punisher if rest is out of the question.
then again DACUS works well for this too, so it really depends on the situation IMO.
If only it was kirby's, then this would be incredible.
Sometimes I feel it's value is usurped by Dsmash, which I am a big fan of.
then again DACUS works well for this too, so it really depends on the situation IMO.
If only it was kirby's, then this would be incredible.
Sometimes I feel it's value is usurped by Dsmash, which I am a big fan of.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
No, D-smash is semi-pointless. I only use it rarely and accidentally because I screw buffering a dair.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Not really, it has too much startup and not a large enough hitbox. Its probably one of the worst D-smashes in the game.
§leepy God
Smash Master
♪ I dislike how much they tone down this move. Oh well, you can try to use her Fordward Smash on someone when they are attemting to comeback, but Down Smash works better that way. But at least it's a killing move around a good 100% though. ♪
illinialex24
Smash Hero
No those two are much much better.
Delmore
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2009
- Messages
- 21
All the ground smashes aside from the down smash can work as good kill moves, the flaw behind all of them is the fact that they leave you open for punishment due to their length. Down smash's only real use is near an edge if you let it off right when you think someone will be close enough to the ledge, and even then, they just have to position themselves correctly to avoid it and grab the ledge. It at least shoves the opponent at a good angle if it does hit, and has a lot of power, but it's rare to ever effectively hit with it.
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Her Majesty has a down smash? Huh.
That aside, most of the reasons on why one should use F-Smash have already been listed: Tech-chasing, lag punishing, etc. I mostly use it for roll-dodge spammers.
rinoH
Smash Lord
fsmash is like Ike's fsmash imo for some reason people overestimate how fast it is and spotdodge and get hit by it
Metatitan
Smash Master
Ike's f smash is better and has around the same lag.... what was sakurai thinking on this one?
You have to question what he was thinking for most of the things he did to Jiggs, actually.
PND
Smash Champion
Fixed. We need a developer with a competitive background to try and balance the next Smash. Sirlin 4 Smash Broz?
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
Fsmash is exactly what people have been saying, a punishing/predicting move. Spam this or use this unwisely and you will get hurt for it. But honestly, the startup and end lag aren't as bad as everyone is saying, please stop comparing it to Ike's fsmash.
Offtopic: Jiggly's dsmash is very awful. It was really good in 64, less-than-average in Melee, now garbage in Brawl. Startup is way too much, range is terrible, but the knockback and trajectory are nice but only if near an edge where it will send an opponent down. No reason to ever use this in the middle of a stage. It is, however, very cool looking to charge the dsmash. She spins very rapidly than dsmashes, it gets my vote on the best looking charge for a smash (all other ones are barely an upgrade from charging smashes in Melee where they are frozen until they use it, they just move very very slightly).
Offtopic: Jiggly's dsmash is very awful. It was really good in 64, less-than-average in Melee, now garbage in Brawl. Startup is way too much, range is terrible, but the knockback and trajectory are nice but only if near an edge where it will send an opponent down. No reason to ever use this in the middle of a stage. It is, however, very cool looking to charge the dsmash. She spins very rapidly than dsmashes, it gets my vote on the best looking charge for a smash (all other ones are barely an upgrade from charging smashes in Melee where they are frozen until they use it, they just move very very slightly).
Veril
Frame Savant
Everything this man says is true.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
It does hit 10 frames sooner and end 20 frames sooner. But it also lacks the great hitbox or insane power that is an instant KO with 1 screw up.
PND
Smash Champion
Honestly, I think you guys are underrating the Dsmash. I've used to it gimp lots of recoveries by using it right near the edge as they go to grab the edge.
Metatitan
Smash Master
d smash has its uses, fully charged it is flashy and can actually do mindgames and hit (believe it or not), since its our fastest smash it can punish laggier attacks better but lets remember this is the front smash discussion mike =/
M-WUZ-H3R3
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2008
- Messages
- 1,793
Except the part about D-smash. It's not garbage, and the lag is the same as f-smash.
Of couse D-smash isn't a smart move, but it has it's uses. It's hitbox is too small, and its not the strongest move.
I use it in two cases:
1.) If I land a sheild break close to the edge of the stage, I use it as a fancy finish. (ONLY at 130% and over)
2.) Edgeguard if I don't have enough time to WoP. (the opponent is in the right spot and close)
The charge animation is too good.
Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
fallenangemon0
Smash Journeyman
Very nice application and the freshness of the move is cool since it's rarely used, as you said.
I think that the only other way to use this move is to SHAD into it =P
I prefer Dsmash any day
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Sooo slow though and such a poor hitbox.Very nice application and the freshness of the move is cool since it's rarely used, as you said.
I think that the only other way to use this move is to SHAD into it =P
I prefer Dsmash any day
fallenangemon0
Smash Journeyman
True, but you can wear away their sheild to a point where it will hit their feet, which is the only other way I use it outside of intercepting recoveries. (sorry falco
)illinialex24
Smash Hero
Have you seen the frame data for this? For a shield poke move it isn't even good.True, but you can wear away their sheild to a point where it will hit their feet, which is the only other way I use it outside of intercepting recoveries. (sorry falco
fallenangemon0
Smash Journeyman
Well then I guess I use it in a way that even frame data cannot support! What makes the move worth it is the trajectory, if anything.
kirbywizard
Smash Hero
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only uses I find for forward smash
1: when enemy rolls away then theres a hit
2: hit the enemy because I never use this the entire match
3: the occasional hit when they get near the edge
to slow for a good smash though
I just use rollout for a quick game of chance to kill or forward air
1: when enemy rolls away then theres a hit
2: hit the enemy because I never use this the entire match
3: the occasional hit when they get near the edge
to slow for a good smash though
I just use rollout for a quick game of chance to kill or forward air
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
Dsmash is one of the moves you people are over-estimating. It really isn't good. It has terrible, terrible range and speed. Players have to roll into this to hit with it most of the time. As for edgeguarding, it won't hit any decent player recovering since people will auto-sweetspot the edge or come as close to sweetspotting the edge as possible for characters like Wario. It will be a very lucky hit if someone ledgejumps into a dsmash. That is very situational since most characters will use an aerial while jumping if you are this close to the edge which will most likely (like 95% of the time) outrange and outspeed the dsmash.
All this move has is it's trajectory and power, if it hits. If this move hits near an edge at 100%+, it is death for a good amount of the characters.
Trust me, I have been using Jigglypuff as a serious secondary since 64. Her dsmash was really really good (excellent speed, range, and power + low tracjectory, an overpowered move) in 64, below-average in Melee (speed and range nerfed down alot), and now it is just really bad (even less range and speed now).
Just remember, Jigglypuff is NOT meant to be good on ground. She is an aerial fighter.
Edit: You should make this thread the fsmash/dsmash thread since this is what it turned into, lol.
All this move has is it's trajectory and power, if it hits. If this move hits near an edge at 100%+, it is death for a good amount of the characters.
Trust me, I have been using Jigglypuff as a serious secondary since 64. Her dsmash was really really good (excellent speed, range, and power + low tracjectory, an overpowered move) in 64, below-average in Melee (speed and range nerfed down alot), and now it is just really bad (even less range and speed now).
Just remember, Jigglypuff is NOT meant to be good on ground. She is an aerial fighter.
Edit: You should make this thread the fsmash/dsmash thread since this is what it turned into, lol.