Sephy95
Smash Lord
There are things cpus can do that you cant. I guess thats just how it is....
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Brawl Computers: Q&A (1 Player Directory Included)
- Thread starter Zatchiel
- Start date
Gatlin
cactus in the valley that's about to crumble down.
Sorry to deter away from the topic, but I usually like to practice on the CPUs once in a while. I used to fight level 9's all the time, and I seem to have gotten better seeing as I always have more stocks than I did the last round. However, I hear lots of "you'll develop bad habits training on level 9s" or even "you'll develop bad habits training on CPUs in general."
Does anyone have any say on this? I have heard to train on lower skilled CPUs around the 3-7 range, but I never really got an explanation as to why that would be better. I also fear it would be too easy then, and I wouldn't really be getting better because I am not really trying.
I can't really play with others because my friend hasn't gotten the game yet, I also really dislike playing Wifi. So until he gets the game, the CPUs are all I got... unfortunately.
Does anyone have any say on this? I have heard to train on lower skilled CPUs around the 3-7 range, but I never really got an explanation as to why that would be better. I also fear it would be too easy then, and I wouldn't really be getting better because I am not really trying.
I can't really play with others because my friend hasn't gotten the game yet, I also really dislike playing Wifi. So until he gets the game, the CPUs are all I got... unfortunately.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Any level CPU is fine as long as you are trying to improve, rather than trying to win.
If you train against CPUs too often you may accidentally start doing things that will get you punished against good competitive players.
If you train against CPUs too often you may accidentally start doing things that will get you punished against good competitive players.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Train WITH cpus not train them although they do get smarter. What kind of mistakes or habits can get you punished anyway. I'm curious.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
I lost to this ^
@Seph: CPUs maintain a constant level of intellegence. They don't know any more now than they did since Brawl's release. With that said, they maintain the ability to read every input by the player, even before it registers, and it gives off the sight that the CPU is learning from the player. The AI has a definite amount of comprehension, humans have a limited amount of comprehension. We're still learning what there is to learn about the game, computers are incapable of learning the game. They know all that they know and nothing more.
@Seph: CPUs maintain a constant level of intellegence. They don't know any more now than they did since Brawl's release. With that said, they maintain the ability to read every input by the player, even before it registers, and it gives off the sight that the CPU is learning from the player. The AI has a definite amount of comprehension, humans have a limited amount of comprehension. We're still learning what there is to learn about the game, computers are incapable of learning the game. They know all that they know and nothing more.
Gatlin
cactus in the valley that's about to crumble down.
Ok, I guess that makes sense. What kind of punishes are you talking about? I hear that term a lot and I don't really know what they mean.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Rolling is one of my bad habits. Sometimes it works but I rely on it too much. I'm working on improving my spot dodges.
Gatlin
cactus in the valley that's about to crumble down.
Rolls are bad habits? Oh dear 
I do those a lot.
I do those a lot.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Playing Brawl is a bad habit.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Lets not get crazy lol jk Yeah I guess it is sometimes a bad habit in itself.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Playing that is also one of my habits. Dont know whether to consider it good or bad.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Good.
It is most definitely a good habit.
It is most definitely a good habit.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Cant argue with that logic.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Let's not get too off topic guys, this isn't a social thread.
To add to this post: Does anyone know of down-loadable content that allows you to update the computer's knowledge and understanding? It would be good if my CPU Snake's used DACUS, and self-C4 if they're in a position to get gimped. I'd also enjoy Diddy Kong utilizing Glide Tossing and such.
To add to this post: Does anyone know of down-loadable content that allows you to update the computer's knowledge and understanding? It would be good if my CPU Snake's used DACUS, and self-C4 if they're in a position to get gimped. I'd also enjoy Diddy Kong utilizing Glide Tossing and such.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
It is currently non-existent.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Has it been attempted? Or does it just remain as a faint possibility under construction? This could help a lot of people get better without having to play WiFi all the time.
Typically referring to myself.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I believe that we don't know the location of the files or the manner in which to edit them. If someone like Dantarion could confirm that, that'd be good.
I don't think it has really been attempted outside of a few quick searches.
I don't think it has really been attempted outside of a few quick searches.
Someone has made training bots, like Falcos who only spam lasers and so on. It's indeed possible to update AI, but nobody really cares so no one is doing it. If you maybe asked from someone you might get it, but it's not worth the trouble.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
link or it didnt happen
Sephy95
Smash Lord
I'd love for the cpus to get harder. I need a way to get better by fighting lvl 9s but right now I'm at a plateau.
Gatlin
cactus in the valley that's about to crumble down.
I think it'd be cool to be able to customize what attack the CPUs perform. Such as how you can make them repeatedly jump or walk around, but it'd be nice to make them only attack with fsmash, dair, sideb, etc. Or even making them perform a specific order of attacks.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Too bad they cant learn your combos. They can only adapt to what you do.
Gatlin
cactus in the valley that's about to crumble down.
I wasn't really saying learn what you do and counter it 
I was just saying if you could have like a huge checklist of all the moves, and check which ones you want your CPU to perform, and which ones you don't want it to. Like right now they perform on free will, I was saying it'd be cool to have complete control of what they do.
I was just saying if you could have like a huge checklist of all the moves, and check which ones you want your CPU to perform, and which ones you don't want it to. Like right now they perform on free will, I was saying it'd be cool to have complete control of what they do.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
I know, I was just stating what was on my mind. As for making cpus only doing moves you want them to do, dont you think that takes the fun out of a cpu brawl. Its more challenging when you dont know what they'll do instead of knowing the moves you set for them. Get what I'm saying?
Gatlin
cactus in the valley that's about to crumble down.
Oh sorry, misunderstood your post.
And ya, I am all for a challenging CPU. I was just saying customization as if you were only looking to practice rather than win. Also being able to input certain combos that you want the CPU to use that they normally don't perform. I guess that really just falls back into the "I want CPUs to learn" scenario again, though. Mainly because even if you set the specific move-set for them to perform, chances are they wouldn't perform it the way you want them to.
When playing against CPUs, all I am trying to do basically is aiming to win instead of actually trying to practice. Then again, I guess trying to win is a form of practice, seeing as the CPUs would be more interactive while performing all their moves instead of just a specific set. So, yes you are correct.
In a sense, they would be too predictable (even more than usual) if you knew what they were going to do.
And ya, I am all for a challenging CPU. I was just saying customization as if you were only looking to practice rather than win. Also being able to input certain combos that you want the CPU to use that they normally don't perform. I guess that really just falls back into the "I want CPUs to learn" scenario again, though. Mainly because even if you set the specific move-set for them to perform, chances are they wouldn't perform it the way you want them to.
When playing against CPUs, all I am trying to do basically is aiming to win instead of actually trying to practice. Then again, I guess trying to win is a form of practice, seeing as the CPUs would be more interactive while performing all their moves instead of just a specific set. So, yes you are correct.
In a sense, they would be too predictable (even more than usual) if you knew what they were going to do.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Glad you understand. Its also easier to just go to practice mode and practice there. You'll be able to analyze their actions better too. About that thing with cpus not performing combos right if you could teach them, which you cant, its possible that they can make your combo more deadly by adding something to spice it up.
Gatlin
cactus in the valley that's about to crumble down.
True true. They are pretty good at performing actions a normal human could not perform.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
They're also good at being unable to recite actions humans can
Honestly, if you could control what a CPU did, it would kill the purpose. I'd like it if my computers had extensive knowledge of things like SH-Lasering and all, but if i knew what they were going to do and had control over it, it'd feel like Melee CPUs.
Honestly, if you could control what a CPU did, it would kill the purpose. I'd like it if my computers had extensive knowledge of things like SH-Lasering and all, but if i knew what they were going to do and had control over it, it'd feel like Melee CPUs.
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Thats sorta like what I said already. The first part anyways. I find melee cpus to be more challenging than brawl cpus.They're also good at being unable to recite actions humans can
Honestly, if you could control what a CPU did, it would kill the purpose. I'd like it if my computers had extensive knowledge of things like SH-Lasering and all, but if i knew what they were going to do and had control over it, it'd feel like Melee CPUs.
Life
Smash Hero
It shouldn't be THAT hard to make CPUs that are capable of chaingrabbing. Just make a file that says "if your character is X and you grab the opponent at Y percent range, dthrow then go for another grab". It seems too easy, which indicates that I'm missing something.
From there, it doesn't seem difficult to enable DACUS. And planking, for that matter. (Actually, a pplank-bot would be invaluable to the whole "ban MK" thing.) And various other things, character-specific ATs and whatnot. An MK that edgeguards with frightening consistency (level-9 reaction time plus knowledge of how to correctly spam dair). ICs that never drop a grab. A Pit that can actually arrow loop (Yass' CV is scary). A Yoshi that knows all the techs. A Ganondorf that can chain-choke. A Dedede that can do the Snake infinite. A Pika that can CG-bufferrun-uair-footstool-QAL EVERY TIME. Not just training tools, but doubles partners (there's a guy that won a doubles tournament with L9 dorf as his partner in Melee). Finally a meeting point for the hacker and the tournament player. And yet we don't look into it. WHY?
And yet Why? is the answer to the question. "These AI can do all the tricks, but the decision-making is what brings them to their knees." Is it so? How many decisions do you make while spamming SHDL? While CGing? While pplanking? But most of all, how many decisions do we get wrong? It cannot be impossible. Yet we simply say it is so and do not bother with even the first clearly possible steps... And thus I come back to: "WHY?"
Now that I'm done ranting, Melee CPUs are way more predictable than Brawl CPUs, but I zero-death Brawl CPUs more often (though I also lose to them much more easily). Melee CPUs are consistently bad, while Brawl CPUs are occasionally a slight challenge.
From there, it doesn't seem difficult to enable DACUS. And planking, for that matter. (Actually, a pplank-bot would be invaluable to the whole "ban MK" thing.) And various other things, character-specific ATs and whatnot. An MK that edgeguards with frightening consistency (level-9 reaction time plus knowledge of how to correctly spam dair). ICs that never drop a grab. A Pit that can actually arrow loop (Yass' CV is scary). A Yoshi that knows all the techs. A Ganondorf that can chain-choke. A Dedede that can do the Snake infinite. A Pika that can CG-bufferrun-uair-footstool-QAL EVERY TIME. Not just training tools, but doubles partners (there's a guy that won a doubles tournament with L9 dorf as his partner in Melee). Finally a meeting point for the hacker and the tournament player. And yet we don't look into it. WHY?
And yet Why? is the answer to the question. "These AI can do all the tricks, but the decision-making is what brings them to their knees." Is it so? How many decisions do you make while spamming SHDL? While CGing? While pplanking? But most of all, how many decisions do we get wrong? It cannot be impossible. Yet we simply say it is so and do not bother with even the first clearly possible steps... And thus I come back to: "WHY?"
Now that I'm done ranting, Melee CPUs are way more predictable than Brawl CPUs, but I zero-death Brawl CPUs more often (though I also lose to them much more easily). Melee CPUs are consistently bad, while Brawl CPUs are occasionally a slight challenge.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I find Brawl CPUs more challenging than Melee :/
I would really like if you could record actions and have the computers redo them in Training Mode. It would let me practice power-shielding various attacks and working on DI for combos, etc...
I would really like if you could record actions and have the computers redo them in Training Mode. It would let me practice power-shielding various attacks and working on DI for combos, etc...
Sephy95
Smash Lord
I dont get your statement. Please elaborate more.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
^This^
Maybe they weren't programmed to chain-grab because the creators are scrubs and thought it would be gay?
Maybe they weren't programmed to chain-grab because the creators are scrubs and thought it would be gay?
Sephy95
Smash Lord
Haha maybe. Or maybe they just wanted to make it easy for us. Either way you may be right when you say they're scrubs.